Still Stunned After Getting Estimate From Club Champ Fitting

[Jacked_Loft]

The problem with scenario #2 is, I doubt you were able to hit the entire set with those specs during your fitting. So, this comes down to more of the quality of the build than anything else.

 

True, but you can say the same about fitting #1.

 

High end or a quality fitting also encompasses after build work like gapping. individual club lie angle measurement and bending, swing weight adjustment etc.

 

Don't mean to sound patronzing but I'm sure you already know this.

[Howard_Jones]

Puring a shaft isn’t necessary anymore, I’ve spoken to several reps and all have told me the same thing. Don’t waste your money! After market shafts don’t have a spine anymore, he quaility control and the methods of manufacturing have improved so much over the last decade, it’s not needed anymore.

 

Ask the same folks if its needed to check stuff like Play length, Swing weight, Loft and Lie angles when you buy a new set of irons, off the rack or custom fit to spec....What answer do you expect to get? ....and what is the truth about it?

[johnnythunders]

Only reason to go to club champion or any of the other fitters is if your in the market to try exotic shafts. If not just go to golf galaxy and and try clubs with shafts from the fitting rack.

 

I did a club champion fitting at the beginning of spring because it was 1/2 off tried lots of shafts,I got to try all the new drivers against my fusion/r series and nothing beat it, max, rogue, m3/m4. I tried all of the fujikura shafts and the one that hung with mine was a fujikura 661 evo 3, they wanted $379 plus adapter and grip like $400. I waited, found one on eBay for $145 with grip and adapter. I was switching back and forth thru the year, finally settled on it.

 

I did find that the rogue x was best for me, so again, I found them on eBay a lot cheaper. Irons were a wash also.

 

The only way I would get fitted and pay for that they fitted me is if Ian Fraser of TXG fit me. Now that guy is awesome, but I don’t have the game anymore that needs that much precision.

[trhode]

The problem with scenario #2 is, I doubt you were able to hit the entire set with those specs during your fitting. So, this comes down to more of the quality of the build than anything else.

 

True, but you can say the same about fitting #1.

 

High end or a quality fitting also encompasses after build work like gapping. individual club lie angle measurement and bending, swing weight adjustment etc.

 

Don't mean to sound patronzing but I'm sure you already know this.

 

That's why we adjust loft/lie angle after the set is built instead of "assuming" it will be consistent through the set. Ideally, they, CC, shouldn't ship your clubs to you. You should have to go back to the location and pick them up, doing a loft/lie session before you head out the door.

[Jacked_Loft]

With you 100% on this. L&L session is paramount before the player leaves the facility for the last time.

 

This hour or so is usually included in the fitting fee, which is often overlooked by the price oriented players.

[5hort5tuff]

With you 100% on this. L&L session is paramount before the player leaves the facility for the last time.

 

This hour or so is usually included in the fitting fee, which is often overlooked by the price oriented players.

 

I have found this with the last two sets I've built. Over time I realize...this 6 iron needs 1* more upright, this PW needs 1* flat. IMO this is a huge step, and the main reason why you should PLAY the clubs you had built for some time before ditching them.

[JCAG]

Puring a shaft isn’t necessary anymore, I’ve spoken to several reps and all have told me the same thing. Don’t waste your money! After market shafts don’t have a spine anymore, he quaility control and the methods of manufacturing have improved so much over the last decade, it’s not needed anymore.

 

Do you expect them to say otherwise?

[KMo23]

The problem with scenario #2 is, I doubt you were able to hit the entire set with those specs during your fitting. So, this comes down to more of the quality of the build than anything else.

 

True, but you can say the same about fitting #1.

 

High end or a quality fitting also encompasses after build work like gapping. individual club lie angle measurement and bending, swing weight adjustment etc.

 

Don't mean to sound patronzing but I'm sure you already know this.

 

That's why we adjust loft/lie angle after the set is built instead of "assuming" it will be consistent through the set. Ideally, they, CC, shouldn't ship your clubs to you. You should have to go back to the location and pick them up, doing a loft/lie session before you head out the door.

Are you saying that doesn’t happen at CC? People have commented CC offers unlimited L/L adjustments at no charge.

[BigHook25]

Only reason to go to club champion or any of the other fitters is if your in the market to try exotic shafts. If not just go to golf galaxy and and try clubs with shafts from the fitting rack.

 

I did a club champion fitting at the beginning of spring because it was 1/2 off tried lots of shafts,I got to try all the new drivers against my fusion/r series and nothing beat it, max, rogue, m3/m4. I tried all of the fujikura shafts and the one that hung with mine was a fujikura 661 evo 3, they wanted $379 plus adapter and grip like $400. I waited, found one on eBay for $145 with grip and adapter. I was switching back and forth thru the year, finally settled on it.

 

I did find that the rogue x was best for me, so again, I found them on eBay a lot cheaper. Irons were a wash also.

 

The only way I would get fitted and pay for that they fitted me is if Ian Fraser of TXG fit me. Now that guy is awesome, but I don’t have the game anymore that needs that much precision.

 

I would agree with this for the most part. CC does seem to push the exotic shafts first, even when the performance between the exotic shaft and a stock shaft is minimal at best.

[cbbaron]

Got my Ping I200 couple years ago from CC because the shaft that fit me best was not an upcharge by Ping and paid what was the regular price at time. Since they didn't assemble clubs or whatever I didn't get the playability guarantee.

[BigHook25]

Got my Ping I200 couple years ago from CC because the shaft that fit me best was not an upcharge by Ping and paid what was the regular price at time. Since they didn't assemble clubs or whatever I didn't get the playability guarantee.

 

I wouldn't worry too much about the guarantee. I got fit and wasn't able to really try my clubs much within the 90 day period. I called and tried to get them to honor it after that and basically no response. They wanted me to do another paid fitting. Yes, you could say it was my fault for not getting enough time in with the 90 day limit, but the fitting just didn't work. I asked what would happen if I did another fitting and if they would give me some money for the current shafts if swapped out or what would happen. I got no response. I just wanted to see if they would swap them or I would get some type of rebate, but never got an accurate response. I decided to change the shafts on my own and sold the CC recommended shafts myself.

[johnnythunders]

Puring was need 10 years ago, but for most quality shafts, it is not needed. If you want to know if your shaft needs it, go to golfshaftreview, pay the yearly $10 fee and Russ measures all the shafts and he will say in the reviews how round and whether the shaft has a spine. If your shaft does, then get it pured , if it doesn’t then it’s a waste of money.

[BIG STU]

Just got fit at CC for 5-Gap and 3 wedges but they estimate is over 3 grand!!!! :stink:

 

Is it acceptable to charge me TWICE the actual RETAIL price for graphite shafts and more than TWICE for steel?...really??? On top of that a buddy of mine was at Fujikura 2 weeks ago and they laughed when asked about PUREing shafts. He was told Fujikura shafts go through PUREing before leaving the plant and the shafts will be screwed up if they go through PUREing again by a shop. So there's another $30 for each shaft that would not only be pissed down the drain but have an adverse effect on performance.

 

Yeah they charged more than retail for grips too...by at least 20%.

 

What am I missing? Feel free to defend them. I've got to know how they justify their prices. In CC's favor they did charge the full retail price for the clubs. No discount whatsoever. I know...I've heard this before to a degree but until it happens to you...

 

Thanks in advance!

 

After 40-some years in clubhead and shaft design including consulting for two of the bigger clubhead production factories I can tell you how they justify what they charge you guys.

 

1) Spend a ton on a facility with fancy fixtures and 500+ shafts and gadgets and you have a pretty strong starting nut to crack

2) Dabble with TV ads paying Ledbetter and Haney to crow about your services and the nut just got a lot stronger

3) Then for pay back, start by capitalizing on the sheer stupidity among so many golfers who do believe that "if it costs more it has to be better"

4) Chiefly use shafts that are so far overpriced beyond what it costs to make them that it pushes point #3 above to an even more ridiculous level

5) Add it all up and there you have your $3000 quote for 10 clubs that likely cost 10% of that to manufacture - and that's with profit for the production factory included

 

But this here is the land where profit reigns supreme so if they can charge that much and get it, then by all means why not give it a shot. Because as P.T. used to say, there is one born every minute and it seems a lot of them ended up as a golf consumer.

 

In this case RIP does not mean rest in peace. And BTW the very best clubfitters on the planet might charge about half of what you were quoted. But they all are one man shops with no money to pay super teachers to crow about them on The Golf Channel. But that's where the honest to gosh best fitting in this industry takes place. Bunches of people on WRX have found one of these few super fitters and worked with them and they can tell you.

Tom Wishon has spoken and that is good enough for me--- BTW I would have never considered CC anyhow since I can fit and build my own clubs

[KaBoom21]

Timmy?

[deadsolid...shank]

Only reason to go to club champion or any of the other fitters is if your in the market to try exotic shafts. If not just go to golf galaxy and and try clubs with shafts from the fitting rack.

 

I did a club champion fitting at the beginning of spring because it was 1/2 off tried lots of shafts,I got to try all the new drivers against my fusion/r series and nothing beat it, max, rogue, m3/m4. I tried all of the fujikura shafts and the one that hung with mine was a fujikura 661 evo 3, they wanted $379 plus adapter and grip like $400. I waited, found one on eBay for $145 with grip and adapter. I was switching back and forth thru the year, finally settled on it.

 

I did find that the rogue x was best for me, so again, I found them on eBay a lot cheaper. Irons were a wash also.

 

The only way I would get fitted and pay for that they fitted me is if Ian Fraser of TXG fit me. Now that guy is awesome, but I don’t have the game anymore that needs that much precision.

 

I would agree with this for the most part. CC does seem to push the exotic shafts first, even when the performance between the exotic shaft and a stock shaft is minimal at best.

 

Although any business is going to push their most profitable product, even if a cheaper one will be sufficient. Can’t fault them for that.

[borloryau]

Only reason to go to club champion or any of the other fitters is if your in the market to try exotic shafts. If not just go to golf galaxy and and try clubs with shafts from the fitting rack.

 

I did a club champion fitting at the beginning of spring because it was 1/2 off tried lots of shafts,I got to try all the new drivers against my fusion/r series and nothing beat it, max, rogue, m3/m4. I tried all of the fujikura shafts and the one that hung with mine was a fujikura 661 evo 3, they wanted $379 plus adapter and grip like $400. I waited, found one on eBay for $145 with grip and adapter. I was switching back and forth thru the year, finally settled on it.

 

I did find that the rogue x was best for me, so again, I found them on eBay a lot cheaper. Irons were a wash also.

 

The only way I would get fitted and pay for that they fitted me is if Ian Fraser of TXG fit me. Now that guy is awesome, but I don’t have the game anymore that needs that much precision.

 

Agree, I'd get fitted by TXG but wouldn't buy from them. They follow the same a la carte pricing model as CC.

[skyking]

Ordering the irons today. How can I order what the CC fitter came up with when I hit the same model head with a steel STOCK shaft better in all data for OMG...SO much less? My guess, as deadsolid said, being in the northeast, golf season is all but over, Christmas around the corner, the fitter thinks let's shove these $80 shafts deep up his a**. Oh...and same with wedges. Stock wedge shafts will NEVER do! Let's MORE THAN DOUBLE the price of those while we're at it since there's only 3.

 

Still contemplating whether I'm gonna schedule a driver fitting...which is included in the full bag price. I'll be so tempted to say WTF, how do you explain the iron fitting? How can I trust ANYTHING you come up with? Well...the putter results, as I posted earlier is pretty phenomenal considering I never wanted a black, mid-mallet putter. Makes me wonder if despite standardized training CC fitters are better at fitting certain parts of your bag. Naw...I'm going with, show me the money!

[BigHook25]

Only reason to go to club champion or any of the other fitters is if your in the market to try exotic shafts. If not just go to golf galaxy and and try clubs with shafts from the fitting rack.

 

I did a club champion fitting at the beginning of spring because it was 1/2 off tried lots of shafts,I got to try all the new drivers against my fusion/r series and nothing beat it, max, rogue, m3/m4. I tried all of the fujikura shafts and the one that hung with mine was a fujikura 661 evo 3, they wanted $379 plus adapter and grip like $400. I waited, found one on eBay for $145 with grip and adapter. I was switching back and forth thru the year, finally settled on it.

 

I did find that the rogue x was best for me, so again, I found them on eBay a lot cheaper. Irons were a wash also.

 

The only way I would get fitted and pay for that they fitted me is if Ian Fraser of TXG fit me. Now that guy is awesome, but I don’t have the game anymore that needs that much precision.

 

I would agree with this for the most part. CC does seem to push the exotic shafts first, even when the performance between the exotic shaft and a stock shaft is minimal at best.

 

Although any business is going to push their most profitable product, even if a cheaper one will be sufficient. Can’t fault them for that.

 

Agree, except when they are charging basically MSRP for every part of the golf club.

[nsxguy]

So I just completed a 5 lesson pack at GolfTec that included a swing analysis and a TechFit. The techfit was 1 hour and I wanted to do irons. I was kinda wanting Ping so that’s where we started and end, Ping I210 was the best with modus 3 105 shafts lofts and lies all set and spec out. Ping I210 125 per club, GOLFTEC did not care where I purchased from, so I purchased from my local club because they had a loyalty program for every dollar spent, big benefit for me. Then I decided I wanted to do a driver fit used one of my lesson for that no prob, my fitter dialed the driver in to a Ping G400 with a Aldila XTorsion shaft. So I asked him Asked if I could save some money and bye last years Ping G and order my shaft through Ping, he said no prob good idea. GOLFTEC ordered the shaft I went to a local golf shop bought my Ping G put them together no problem could not be happier. I went though the whole bag irons 4-paw,uw, 1200, driver 385 with shaft, 5w, 2hybrids off the rack 500, 2 ping glide wedges (last years version) 150, odyssey putter 200, that’s less than 2450 for the whole bag and most of it is custom. Two rounds on them could not be happier.

 

Sounds like you got a good deal but unfortunately (for me of course) I don't have the time to disassemble and reassemble your entire post to actually understand it. :dntknw:

[JCAG]

If the worst one could say about my business was: But they are expensive. I would consider that a compliment.

[nsxguy]

On top of all that, I emailed the fitter yesterday asking for ALL the TM data and the fitting information, "lie, loft, length and the like". Guy writes back that I got ALL the TM data and I got the fitting info on my "Sales Order' sheet...BS. There is no lie, loft, length info...F'ing liar. My guess? He doesn't want to send it. My friend showed me a fitting sheet from CC because they are building a set for a customer.

 

I have to go back on Friday to finish up the full bag fitting and it's not gonna be comfortable. Almost but not quite as bad as the feeling when dealing with a timeshare sales person.

 

You might consider asking for the manager because that's BS.

 

Yes...because I PAID for the fitting. The fitting fee is NOT deducted from the purchase so give me my info!

 

I agree but there is a catch 22 to the whole fitting charge thing.

 

Here are two different (but similar) fitting results for an iron set for the same player:

 

Fitting #1

 

Model X 4-PW

Dynamic Gold S300

+0.5" Build length

Lie 1° up

Standard grips +1 tape.

 

Fitting #2

 

Model X 4-PW

Dynamic Golf Tour Issue S300 -0.5" hard step

Loft 4/5/6 Standard 7-PW +1° weak

+0.5" Build length

Lie +1° Up on 4-8 Standard lie on 9-PW

Swingweight 4/5/6 D2 7/8 D3 9/PW D4

Standard grip +1 Tape LH +3 Tapes RH

 

Now these two fittings differ from another in depth and precision, however fitting #1 results in clubs that you can basically buy (online or offline) almost anywhere. Fitting #2 is a different story, and try getting this order filled at your local big box.

 

The real value of information in our society is based on it's accuracy, and if I research deep enough into a subject this is my intellectual property. Just buying the clubs from fitting data/recommendation #2 dosen't mean that I won't charge you for the fitting, It just means that I've done my work accurately and professionally enough to give you the best fitting clubs that you can buy.

 

Analogy: If you go to a doctor and he hits your knee with a hammer and says your reaction time is slow, is this the same diagnosis as a doctor who orders a battery of tests, and afterwards tells you that you're starting to develop Parkinson's?

 

To which hospital would you go to for treatment? Most would go where doctor #2 (who showed the most professionalism and the most accurate diagnosis) works. The same with fitting; I'm going to pay for the best fitting that I can get and will also buy the clubs from those who did the fitting because they understand the material, and can build the clubs to thier own in depth fitting specs.

 

Buying the data from fitting #1 should NEVER be a problem, as the data really isn't a test of anyones intellect, you're just renting thier measurement tools.

 

Only problem there is maybe .1% of ALL golfers would benefit, or know they benefited, from the difference between Build 1 and Build 2.

 

Everyone would benefit from knowing need to know whether they had Parkinson's or not.

 

 

Unless someone is extremely ill fit and/or their swing is consistent enough (whatever that actually means) to benefit from a fitting, it's unnecessary.

 

A 20 handicapper with a swing that varies wildly, as most 20 handicappers do, has zero use for a (true) fitting. As a couple of examples of ill fitting goes, generally speaking, if he's 5'4" swinging a 46" driver, that's one thing, or if he swings the driver at 80MPH and has an 80 gram shaft, that's another thing, but otherwise,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Now those are extreme examples of ill fitting. And I'm not saying the clubs couldn't be closer to being "right" and still need some tweaking but for an awful lot of players it doesn't matter until they get "serious" about the game.

[nsxguy]

Puring a shaft isn’t necessary anymore, I’ve spoken to several reps and all have told me the same thing. Don’t waste your money! After market shafts don’t have a spine anymore, he quaility control and the methods of manufacturing have improved so much over the last decade, it’s not needed anymore.

 

Ask the same folks if its needed to check stuff like Play length, Swing weight, Loft and Lie angles when you buy a new set of irons, off the rack or custom fit to spec....What answer do you expect to get? ....and what is the truth about it?

 

Howard, I love you explanations of all things fitting, even though I confess don't always understand some of the technicalities, but surely you're not comparing fitting length, SW, loft and lie to Puring a shaft which may only help all but the hardest swingers with a late release,,,,,,,,,, as Tom has so completely explained in Post 75,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Or do you disagree with TW's assessment of the benefits of "Puring" ?

[Howard_Jones]

Puring a shaft isn’t necessary anymore, I’ve spoken to several reps and all have told me the same thing. Don’t waste your money! After market shafts don’t have a spine anymore, he quaility control and the methods of manufacturing have improved so much over the last decade, it’s not needed anymore.

 

Ask the same folks if its needed to check stuff like Play length, Swing weight, Loft and Lie angles when you buy a new set of irons, off the rack or custom fit to spec....What answer do you expect to get? ....and what is the truth about it?

 

Howard, I love you explanations of all things fitting, even though I confess don't always understand some of the technicalities, but surely you're not comparing fitting length, SW, loft and lie to Puring a shaft which may only help all but the hardest swingers with a late release,,,,,,,,,, as Tom has so completely explained in Post 75,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Or do you disagree with TW's assessment of the benefits of "Puring" ?

 

You must have missed all ive been writing about it here, FLO or PURE is not only about shaft behavior

 

- Shaft behavior / symmetrical or asymmetrical

- Shaft flex - soft or strong

 

The flex / feel issue is valid for all players,so this quality test is needed to make sure we know what we are delivering.

[nsxguy]

Puring a shaft isn’t necessary anymore, I’ve spoken to several reps and all have told me the same thing. Don’t waste your money! After market shafts don’t have a spine anymore, he quaility control and the methods of manufacturing have improved so much over the last decade, it’s not needed anymore.

 

Ask the same folks if its needed to check stuff like Play length, Swing weight, Loft and Lie angles when you buy a new set of irons, off the rack or custom fit to spec....What answer do you expect to get? ....and what is the truth about it?

 

Howard, I love you explanations of all things fitting, even though I confess don't always understand some of the technicalities, but surely you're not comparing fitting length, SW, loft and lie to Puring a shaft which may only help all but the hardest swingers with a late release,,,,,,,,,, as Tom has so completely explained in Post 75,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Or do you disagree with TW's assessment of the benefits of "Puring" ?

 

You must have missed all ive been writing about it here, FLO or PURE is not only about shaft behavior

 

- Shaft behavior / symmetrical or asymmetrical

- Shaft flex - soft or strong

 

The flex / feel issue is valid for all players,so this quality test is needed to make sure we know what we are delivering.

 

I did read that. So then that's a "Yes", you DO disagree with TW's explanation that it benefits far more than the very high speed, late releasing, player.

 

Thanks.

[deadsolid...shank]

If the worst one could say about my business was: But they are expensive. I would consider that a compliment.

 

We are probably the most expensive retailer in our area, I don’t apologize for it, and often tell people, “sure, you can always find cheaper, but cheaper isn’t necessarily better”. I think most customers feel they get their monies worth. Not all, but you just can’t please everyone.

[Howard_Jones]

Puring a shaft isn’t necessary anymore, I’ve spoken to several reps and all have told me the same thing. Don’t waste your money! After market shafts don’t have a spine anymore, he quaility control and the methods of manufacturing have improved so much over the last decade, it’s not needed anymore.

 

Ask the same folks if its needed to check stuff like Play length, Swing weight, Loft and Lie angles when you buy a new set of irons, off the rack or custom fit to spec....What answer do you expect to get? ....and what is the truth about it?

 

Howard, I love you explanations of all things fitting, even though I confess don't always understand some of the technicalities, but surely you're not comparing fitting length, SW, loft and lie to Puring a shaft which may only help all but the hardest swingers with a late release,,,,,,,,,, as Tom has so completely explained in Post 75,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Or do you disagree with TW's assessment of the benefits of "Puring" ?

 

You must have missed all ive been writing about it here, FLO or PURE is not only about shaft behavior

 

- Shaft behavior / symmetrical or asymmetrical

- Shaft flex - soft or strong

 

The flex / feel issue is valid for all players,so this quality test is needed to make sure we know what we are delivering.

 

I did read that. So then that's a "Yes", you DO disagree with TW's explanation that it benefits far more than the very high speed, late releasing, player.

 

Thanks.

 

There is no disagreements between me and Tom Wishon about the subject.

We agree that "shaft behavior" is a issue for the late release players only, but when we talk what shaft flex does (softer or stronger), non of us has been into that in this tread at all. I mention it because thats why i do this on all shafts (to make sure the shaft has the flex it should), and Tom mention those "flyers" (even with a reference to me in that line) and thats a shaft that "way off normal specs" out of production. This flyers can "behave" good, but one or both FLO line might be quite a bit stronger or softer than the norm for that shaft.

 

if one shaft flex up or down dont matter for you, then a FLO test is worthless

[cbbaron]

If the worst one could say about my business was: But they are expensive. I would consider that a compliment.

 

We are probably the most expensive retailer in our area, I don’t apologize for it, and often tell people, “sure, you can always find cheaper, but cheaper isn’t necessarily better”. I think most customers feel they get their monies worth. Not all, but you just can’t please everyone.

The big thing to remember in life a deal is only as good as you think it is if someone is happy with your service they will pay a premium for it

[deadsolid...shank]

If the worst one could say about my business was: But they are expensive. I would consider that a compliment.

 

We are probably the most expensive retailer in our area, I don’t apologize for it, and often tell people, “sure, you can always find cheaper, but cheaper isn’t necessarily better”. I think most customers feel they get their monies worth. Not all, but you just can’t please everyone.

The big thing to remember in life a deal is only as good as you think it is if someone is happy with your service they will pay a premium for it

 

Exactly.

[Shilgy]

I don't get why most players don't generally know their specs. For example, I know I am over-length, heavy swingweight, soft stepped X and flat lie angles, extra wraps under grips etc etc

 

 

How does that work if you change brands?

[SUMM1T]

I don't get why most players don't generally know their specs. For example, I know I am over-length, heavy swingweight, soft stepped X and flat lie angles, extra wraps under grips etc etc

 

 

How does that work if you change brands?

 

Players don't know their specs for a ton of reasons. For the most part, golf is just a hobby and they have always assumed off the rack is fine for them. And when they go to a golf shop, they just hit a few in the bays and let the hourly GG employee tell them how to swing and what works. Everyone of my clients that I fit gets educated on what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. They leave knowing everything, regardless of if they buy from me or not. And, most golfers "specs" change every 6 months because they think everything is equipment related and there is no chance that maybe it's a swing flaw.