Still Stunned After Getting Estimate From Club Champ Fitting

[Howard_Jones]

I went into my large case of old papers, and there i found my books from Mitchell Golf Equipment institute, and shafts measured at Mitchell in 2007, so i wanted to see if there is any evidence of "improvement" in shaft quality over time. Like Tom Wishon has told us, when it all started, shaft quality (symmetrical behavior and flex strength), could vary quite a lot, but he did not put any numbers to it as butt CPM differences so its hard for me to tell "how bad" they was in the mid 90s.

 

So, what ive got, is numbers from Mitchell of shafts measured in 2007 or 11 years ago, and im reusing the shaft list ive linked to myself of shafts measured in 2015 of newer models (made 2012-2014). If there was any improvement between this time periods of up to 8 years in production, it should be possible to see it.

Aldila NV to PFC 60 and PL AXIS is about 8 years - Aldila NV came 2003 or 8 years after Tom Wishon was part of the PURE project, - and PFC 60 S /PL AXIS came in 2010-11 or about 15 years after the PURE project started)

 

To judge shafts in the first place, we need to set a few standards, and even if the shafts we judge was not designed to be judged the way we do it like a butt CPM compare, for 2 shafts who say they are the same, this test is more than valid. The "norm" ive seen on graphite is that "good shafts" might vary 2-4 CPM or 3 CPM as average from the soft to the strong FLO line, and since the papers from Mitchell is "label up or down", i made a compare using a "standard" who is "wider" than whats found, so it accept a larger margin. (so nobody can say im nit picking)

 

- Shafts is measured with label up or down (Not FLOed to weak or strong)

- Shafts thats within plus minus 2 CPM from its "norm" is accepted as "GREEN" or without faults.

- Shafts thats 3-4 CPM stronger or softer than the "norm" is "Boarderliners - YELLOW"

- Shafts thats 5 or more CPM softer or stronger than the norm is "Flyers - RED", or actually error products (but they fit some players)

 

YELLOW or boarderliners is 3-4 CPM softer or stronger or "equal to" soft stepped once or hard stepped once. If we wanted to tip trim to adjust Butt CPM to become like the "norm", it takes average 2/8" of tip trim for each 1 CPM so a shaft thats YELLOW and 4 CPM softer than the norm would need 1 inch of tip trim to become like "the norm".

 

To get that 4 CPM softer shaft within tolerance of plus minus 2 CPM (GREEN zone) we need to tip trim 0.5" inch, so this shafts is actually "off specs" and with more than we can compensate by tip trim since that will change the launch profile more than it change flex. Tip trim on graphite shall be used to compensate for head wgt and hosel specs, NOT butt CPM, unless its a special design for FCM or CPM match.

 

Its for THIS group of shafts that we can take advantage of the soft or the strong flo line (who often and normally vary 3 CPM from soft to strong). This way we can tweak flex against the "norm" or target without using tip trim who messes with our launch profile. So instead of messing up a shaft by using 1 inch tip trim, most shafts in that YELLOW zone can by FLO test and tweak become a GREEN zone shaft thats within plus minus 2 CPM without tip trim.

 

Shafts thats in the RED zone is FLYERS, and error products, but the perfect shaft for those who fits "in between S or X" in the same model. Then the flyer thats a "to stiff S or too soft X" is the unicorn we have been looking for, the shaft thats not officially is made, but happens to be strait in front of us, as a wet dream for the one who traced it, and a a total fiasko for the player who traced a shaft within the "norm".

 

Just like shafts in the YELLOW zone, FLYERS can be FLOed to weak and strong FLO side, so we can rotate the shaft to get it more inline with the "norm" or our target, so even Flyers can be moved from the RED to the GREEN zone in some cases, still without messing up the profile by tip trim.

 

From a list containing 18 ALDILA shafts, with a mix of NV65 S and X, NV75 S and X plus some Prototype hybrids S and X, the number of shafts in the GREEN zone was 11 or 61%, shafts in the YELLOW zone (3-4 CPM off) was 4 and 22% and the RED zone with flyers was 3 shafts and 17%

 

Bottom line here is, even with a FLO test and tweak, shafts in the RED zone, should NOT be delivered to players where the profile respond to the players swing (mid to late release). The shaft will have a large flex difference between the load and release side

so this shaft WILL move "off line" during release, and cause a shaft inducted mishit like Tom Wishon has explained, but for early release player this flex difference want matter, the forward shaft bending had the time to straiten out before impact.

 

The same goes for shafts in the Yellow zone, avoid them if the difference between weak and strong FLO side is above 3 CPM

and that means, for the better players with a late release, the risk of a "bad shaft", gets close to 40%. Now we talk asymmetrical differences, not only difference to the "norm" for that shaft, so the shaft could be both 4 or 5 CPM stronger or softer than the norm, and as long as the weak vs strong FLO lines is lower than 3 CPM as difference, that shaft is a good shaft for the one who fits a tad stronger or softer flex than the norm for that model, even if he have late release, so dont mix the two different judgments here.

 

 

 

Compared to my own shaft list linked to, using numbers for labels up/down i cant see any trends indicating tech improvements or quality improvements from 2007 to 2014. i had only 13 shafts on my list, only 7 or 54% was within the GREEN zone, 4 or 26% in the YELLOW and 2 or 15% in the RED sone

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry12243646

 

If we look over my own shaft list again, and now take advantage of the weak and strong FLO lines, we will be able to get 12 of 13 shafts within the GREEN zone of plus minus 2 CPM from its "norm", and only 1 shaft with a total of 3 CPM off in the YELLOW, and NO SHAFTS in the RED Flyers zone.

 

In this case we moved the GREEN zone shafts from 7 shaft or 54% to become 11 shafts or 92.3%

We improved the YELLOW zone shafts from 4 shaft or 26% to only 7.7% or 1 shaft

We improved and eliminated ALL FLYERS. Thats whats PURE or FLO is all about, we both eliminate flyers and failures, and improve tolerances when they are off.

 

I know that this is way to little amount of shaft to prove anything, but the numbers from 2007 at Mitchell to my numbers done in 2015 (shafts made 2013-14), the quality numbers actually point the other way, so i feel its safe to say, there has not been any major improvements here since the days of shafts like ALDILA NV, and thats quite a few years ago, and even those shafts could be off by about one flex, and we still see that today.

 

How large amounts of shafts who actually belong to each "color code" is hard to say with such a small numbers of shafts, but it seems to be only about 60% of all new Graphite shafts thats within plus minus 2 CPM, and about 25%-30% of shafts would belong to the YELLOW code who could be accepted in most cases, while a place between 10 to 15% of shafts is actually flyers who should be considered a error products and worthless in cases we have a fitting behind the choose. (unless we had luck and found the unicorn who aint in production as in-between flex)

 

'If we compare this to the quality standard we see on Play length, Swing weight, Loft and Lie, we see that the level of quality is equal. Out of 10 irons checked, we cant expect more than 6 of them to be without errors on the 4 specs mentioned, so why would or should this be any better for shafts? Again its a question of what tolerances we accept, but in general, a better player demands way lower tolerances than whats delivered from OEMs on this 4 parameters, and most will do the same for flex....it has to feel and play like the fitting club did, or its "another shaft" and not the deal we maybe payed 400 as upgrade to get.

 

The question is, how high level of quality is demanded, or how large a risk are you willing to take to save the extra expenses? The risk of a borderliner or a flyer combined could be as high as 40%, (if only 60% of shafts is within the GREEN zone) and that is way to high for players who have been fitted to a actual shaft to drop this quality control, but if its a shaft you never tried or was fitted to play in the first place, it want matter unless you are one of those late release players and the shaft you got has a rather large difference between the weak and the strong side.

[Howard_Jones]

And one last post, about STEEL shafts for irons where tolerances is way better than graphite irons, hybids or woods. Its no question, quality IS higher and tighter for tolerances, but how tight are they?

Again a example ive used before, a set of rather expensive shafts, True Temper Tour Prototype Monaco who was hand made in only 1000 sets. Its a taper tip constant wgt shaft so we are not suppose to tip trim it for flex tweak, but if we FLO test the shafts, we can and should take advantage of the weak vs strong FLO side for improved flex matching.

 

Since this shafts was only measured to Weak and Strong FLO lines (no labels up or down), ive made 4 different scenarios where FLO is GOOD in all 4 cases, but the flex slope in the set will vary, and thats why FLO of tapers with CPM testing is beneficial if we want this to be as best as possible.

 

Here is a link to a chart where ive collected the numbers from to make the 4 compares.

http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry10032215

 

Here we have 4 different FLEX slope choices, ALL with GOOD FLO, but who would be happy with the "Random CPM slope"? That set plays close to like we had a mix of flexes, strait in vs soft and hard stepped since the slope bumbs up and down between 8 and 13 CPMs on the raw shafts.

 

 

Thats why FLO with CPM testing is good, also for STEEL shafts used for irons, we can improve their quality level and performance just like we can with graphite woods, even if steel shaft quality in general is way higher than for Graphite.

 

 

 

Now this goat should be shaved once and for all, PURE or FLO is not snake oil or hog wash, its a quality control and spec improvement factor that should be done in all cases a fitting is behind the shaft choice, or we risk loosing the benefit of the fitting itself.

 

Those who claims that production quality now is so high that this is money out the window has not even tried to support their "facts" with numbers, so consider it to be just like most other "text lines" from Golf manufacturers marketing department...its "marketing" with little or no connection to real life facts,

[MK7Golf21]

Cc is just ok for fitting imo, they use a track man indoors and the results it spits out can be spotty and you aren’t seeing actual ballflight. In the beginning they targeted a very specific niche of customers in Chicago, the rich country club guys. I remember going way back before they were popular and it was Mercedes and bmw filling the parking lot, guys getting out of their cars with their hair slicked back and expensive suit jackets

[DavePelz4]

Received several notes from NIck S. from CC over the weekend. For some reason he's having difficulty with getting registered for the site but is still planning on jumping in the deep end with us.

[augustgolf]

Received several notes from NIck S. from CC over the weekend. For some reason he's having difficulty with getting registered for the site but is still planning on jumping in the deep end with us.

 

He should take the "difficulty getting registered for the site" as an omen, and follow his instincts.

 

In reality, I'm glad to see he is wanting to come on here. I just hope that our members are civil to him, and don't display the wonton arrogance/ignorance that will occasionally come out.

[5hort5tuff]

Received several notes from NIck S. from CC over the weekend. For some reason he's having difficulty with getting registered for the site but is still planning on jumping in the deep end with us.

 

He should take the "difficulty getting registered for the site" as an omen, and follow his instincts.

 

In reality, I'm glad to see he is wanting to come on here. I just hope that our members are civil to him, and don't display the wonton arrogance/ignorance that will occasionally come out.

 

Ignorance would be believing a) he is actually having difficulty registering for a website - is own a very modern/tech based company but can't register for a forum? Mmmhmm b) if he does make it on one day, the conversation will be in any way civil

[eagle1997]

Received several notes from NIck S. from CC over the weekend. For some reason he's having difficulty with getting registered for the site but is still planning on jumping in the deep end with us.

 

Simple explanation. He and the GolfFather are one and the same, and WRX doesn’t allow for multiple accounts from the same (now-banned) IP address.

 

Maybe I’m joking.

 

Maybe not.

 

 

[taylorx300]

Was thinking the same thing

[wkuo3]

A lot of products and services these days are a far stretch for the asking price.

If you want to get fitted at the service, why don't you wait a bit ? Pretty certain there will be discount coupons or half off deal before and after the Holidays when it's the off-season for golf in most parts of the lower 48.

Unless, you're in the Sunbelt States where the snow birds flock.

[skyking]

A lot of products and services these days are a far stretch for the asking price.

If you want to get fitted at the service, why don't you wait a bit ? Pretty certain there will be discount coupons or half off deal before and after the Holidays when it's the off-season for golf in most parts of the lower 48.

Unless, you're in the Sunbelt States where the snow birds flock.

 

Yeah...1/2 off started November 6th at CC. Good through January I believe.

[fairways4life]

Apologies if this has been answered already....

 

As far as a driver head goes, is there any difference between the head that Club Champion will provide me and one that I could buy elsewhere (same model) for way cheaper? For example, let's say I get a driver fitting at CC and they fit me into a Taylormade M2 head and they want to charge me $300 for the head alone. But I can find an M2 head online somewhere for half that amount. Is there any difference between these two heads? (assuming the loft is the same).

 

As a followup question, could I buy just the shaft from them (no head, no grip)?

 

Also, would anyone who has had a driver fitting from CC be willing to post a picture on here of the spec sheet that they were given? My local CC is offering driver fittings for $100 through the holiday season (normally $150) and I'm thinking of doing it. I'm not interested in buying the $600 driver they will want to sell me. But I am interested in all the data and information from all the different head and shaft combos I hit. For me personally, $100 might be worth it to get my hands on that kind of data and just go from there. But I'd love to see what that data looks like when they hand it to you.

[MK7Golf21]

Apologies if this has been answered already....

 

As far as a driver head goes, is there any difference between the head that Club Champion will provide me and one that I could buy elsewhere (same model) for way cheaper? For example, let's say I get a driver fitting at CC and they fit me into a Taylormade M2 head and they want to charge me $300 for the head alone. But I can find an M2 head online somewhere for half that amount. Is there any difference between these two heads? (assuming the loft is the same).

 

As a followup question, could I buy just the shaft from them (no head, no grip)?

 

Also, would anyone who has had a driver fitting from CC be willing to post a picture on here of the spec sheet that they were given? My local CC is offering driver fittings for $100 through the holiday season (normally $150) and I'm thinking of doing it. I'm not interested in buying the $600 driver they will want to sell me. But I am interested in all the data and information from all the different head and shaft combos I hit. For me personally, $100 might be worth it to get my hands on that kind of data and just go from there. But I'd love to see what that data looks like when they hand it to you.

 

CC doesn't just buy heads, the OEM's wont just sell heads. They order stock clubs from the OEM and then throw the shafts away or whatever they do with them. You can order clubs with grips uninstalled from OEM so I wonder if they just pocket those because CC will charge full msrp on grips as well which is usually more than a local golf store.

[fairways4life]

Apologies if this has been answered already....

 

As far as a driver head goes, is there any difference between the head that Club Champion will provide me and one that I could buy elsewhere (same model) for way cheaper? For example, let's say I get a driver fitting at CC and they fit me into a Taylormade M2 head and they want to charge me $300 for the head alone. But I can find an M2 head online somewhere for half that amount. Is there any difference between these two heads? (assuming the loft is the same).

 

As a followup question, could I buy just the shaft from them (no head, no grip)?

 

Also, would anyone who has had a driver fitting from CC be willing to post a picture on here of the spec sheet that they were given? My local CC is offering driver fittings for $100 through the holiday season (normally $150) and I'm thinking of doing it. I'm not interested in buying the $600 driver they will want to sell me. But I am interested in all the data and information from all the different head and shaft combos I hit. For me personally, $100 might be worth it to get my hands on that kind of data and just go from there. But I'd love to see what that data looks like when they hand it to you.

 

CC doesn't just buy heads, the OEM's wont just sell heads. They order stock clubs from the OEM and then throw the shafts away or whatever they do with them. You can order clubs with grips uninstalled from OEM so I wonder if they just pocket those because CC will charge full msrp on grips as well which is usually more than a local golf store.

 

I guess what I'm asking is, let's say CC fits me into a TaylorMade M2 head with a particular Aldila shaft and they want to charge me $600 for the whole package (head + shaft + grip). Could I just say "Cool, just give me the shaft with the right TaylorMade adapter on it."

 

Then I can buy a used M2 head off ebay and a grip for cheaper than what they would charge for those. All the build work is happening in the shaft. An M2 head is an M2 head, correct?

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Apologies if this has been answered already....

 

As far as a driver head goes, is there any difference between the head that Club Champion will provide me and one that I could buy elsewhere (same model) for way cheaper? For example, let's say I get a driver fitting at CC and they fit me into a Taylormade M2 head and they want to charge me $300 for the head alone. But I can find an M2 head online somewhere for half that amount. Is there any difference between these two heads? (assuming the loft is the same).

 

As a followup question, could I buy just the shaft from them (no head, no grip)?

 

Also, would anyone who has had a driver fitting from CC be willing to post a picture on here of the spec sheet that they were given? My local CC is offering driver fittings for $100 through the holiday season (normally $150) and I'm thinking of doing it. I'm not interested in buying the $600 driver they will want to sell me. But I am interested in all the data and information from all the different head and shaft combos I hit. For me personally, $100 might be worth it to get my hands on that kind of data and just go from there. But I'd love to see what that data looks like when they hand it to you.

 

CC doesn't just buy heads, the OEM's wont just sell heads. They order stock clubs from the OEM and then throw the shafts away or whatever they do with them. You can order clubs with grips uninstalled from OEM so I wonder if they just pocket those because CC will charge full msrp on grips as well which is usually more than a local golf store.

 

This would be incorrect...all OEM's send only heads to CC based on a different program thru the OEM for fitters/builders. A couple of the OEM's were still sending stock up to last year, but have since stopped. BUT OEM's MAP pricing is the same for head as the entire club, since they don't retail the heads only. All grip cost includes install, the same way Golf Galaxy sells the grip and charges to install them. just sayin.

[MK7Golf21]

Apologies if this has been answered already....

 

As far as a driver head goes, is there any difference between the head that Club Champion will provide me and one that I could buy elsewhere (same model) for way cheaper? For example, let's say I get a driver fitting at CC and they fit me into a Taylormade M2 head and they want to charge me $300 for the head alone. But I can find an M2 head online somewhere for half that amount. Is there any difference between these two heads? (assuming the loft is the same).

 

As a followup question, could I buy just the shaft from them (no head, no grip)?

 

Also, would anyone who has had a driver fitting from CC be willing to post a picture on here of the spec sheet that they were given? My local CC is offering driver fittings for $100 through the holiday season (normally $150) and I'm thinking of doing it. I'm not interested in buying the $600 driver they will want to sell me. But I am interested in all the data and information from all the different head and shaft combos I hit. For me personally, $100 might be worth it to get my hands on that kind of data and just go from there. But I'd love to see what that data looks like when they hand it to you.

 

CC doesn't just buy heads, the OEM's wont just sell heads. They order stock clubs from the OEM and then throw the shafts away or whatever they do with them. You can order clubs with grips uninstalled from OEM so I wonder if they just pocket those because CC will charge full msrp on grips as well which is usually more than a local golf store.

 

This would be incorrect...all OEM's send only heads to CC based on a different program thru the OEM for fitters/builders. A couple of the OEM's were still sending stock up to last year, but have since stopped. BUT OEM's MAP pricing is the same for head as the entire club, since they don't retail the heads only. All grip cost includes install, the same way Golf Galaxy sells the grip and charges to install them. just sayin.

 

yea, now I remember that coming up before but they don't have a head only price, it's like buying the whole club and them only sending head. So not really incorrect what I said if price is the same.

 

Regarding the grip cost including install, so the other 200 or whatever is the charge for building the club doesn't count for grip? geez

[onafriday]

Fitting is a service. You get what you pay for.

 

I could get a tailored suit from a high end retailer, or I could be kindly helped by the lady at Kohl’s.

 

I could be fit by CC, Wishon, Joe Kwok or other higher end fitters, or I could rely on the kid at golf galaxy.

 

It’s a game. Income is discretionary. Fitting is a service and an experience.

 

You get what you pay for.

 

But to expect a Vic & Anthony cut and experience at Outback prices just isn’t realitic. You either roll in Vegas or you roll in Reno.

 

??‍♂️

[North Texas]

Had a similar experience with another big fitter in the DFW area. Ended up buying a new driver elsewhere for half of what they quoted.

 

That being said, I didn't care that some fitters in this thread were critical of Club Champion. I didn't think it was appropriate or necessary.

[fairways4life]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

[jwortsman]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

 

I would assume that they would, but why not buy the shaft on the BST or ebay at a significant savings also?

 

I was fit a couple of weeks ago at CC in Dallas (full bag) for the 1/2 off price knowing full well going in anything recommended would be at a high price. I have some recent irons that I just wanted to ensure I had the proper shaft and flex. The woods/hybrids were an added "bonus" since it was only ~$70 more for the full bag. I never felt like I received the hard sell. I started with the irons and while my current shafts were ok, I went through ~5-6 other shafts and found one that my dispersion and distances were very consistent with... of course this was a premium iron shaft at a premium price (OBAN CT 115), but I did try a couple of KBS, DG, and PX. He adjusted the lies on my wedges as we went and said no reason to change those.

 

We then went into the woods and we worked to get better dispersion with my driver (917) by trading out some shafts. We were able to improve some by swapping out the shaft and we then tried a TS2 head. I saw some gains, but was told that he would recommend changing the shaft in my current set-up rather than changing heads. Moving onto the 3-wood, he couldn't find anything that would improve my current gamer and while we found a better hybrid, the gapping was not right, so he recommended against that.

 

I decided to source the driver shaft from the BST and after searching for the iron shafts, I wasn't able to find them on the secondary market, so I bit the bullet and ordered them from CC. Again, it's a premium shaft that I was able to find online for ~$70 each, but was quoted $80 by CC including the installation and fit guarantee. Seemed like a no brainer to me to go ahead and buy from them. I told him I was not interested in the puring and to not add the grips as I had some of the grips at home and would do it myself. He said just bring them in and he'd do it for no charge. While the initial sticker shock is high, I guess it depends on your fitter as to the level of hard sell you get, but I was pleasantly surprised.

[MK7Golf21]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

 

you would have to ask them. Not sure why you would want to buy just a shaft from them though, they don’t have competitive prices. You would be better off buying the shaft elsewhere. They pretty much know that most people only come to them for fitting and results printed out to take home.

[skyking]

So...when I go back for my driving fitting anyone wanna bet the recommended shaft will be stock\no upcharge? I guess my hurt comes from the fact I found a stock steel shaft with better results for the same make\model iron than was recommended. How could that be? Only 2 conclusions. Fitting itself was flawed or CC absolutely tries their best to sell shafts. Neither is good...

 

I even made it easy on the guy. Told him I didn't care what head or shaft, I want the one that produces the best results.

[propman]

$70 for an iron shaft? Ouch! CC seems to like OBAN products.

[jwortsman]

$70 for an iron shaft? Ouch! CC seems to like OBAN products.

 

Very painful, but couldn't argue with the results. Night/Day over other shafts (for my swing).

[fairways4life]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

 

you would have to ask them. Not sure why you would want to buy just a shaft from them though, they don’t have competitive prices. You would be better off buying the shaft elsewhere. They pretty much know that most people only come to them for fitting and results printed out to take home.

 

I guess I'm thinking the head would be super easy to find elsewhere and would be exactly the same as the head that they would give me for double the price so it would be an easy way to get the exact same thing for a lot less money. But it might be harder to find a shaft with the exact same specs that they could offer for the one I get fit into(?) I guess it depends. But of course I would have to see what their price quote is and how it compares to what I could find elsewhere.

 

Do they give you just one club that they determined was best for you or do you walk away with multiple combinations of heads and shafts that all produced very similar results?

[MK7Golf21]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

 

you would have to ask them. Not sure why you would want to buy just a shaft from them though, they don’t have competitive prices. You would be better off buying the shaft elsewhere. They pretty much know that most people only come to them for fitting and results printed out to take home.

 

I guess I'm thinking the head would be super easy to find elsewhere and would be exactly the same as the head that they would give me for double the price so it would be an easy way to get the exact same thing for a lot less money. But it might be harder to find a shaft with the exact same specs that they could offer for the one I get fit into(?) I guess it depends. But of course I would have to see what their price quote is and how it compares to what I could find elsewhere.

 

Do they give you just one club that they determined was best for you or do you walk away with multiple combinations of heads and shafts that all produced very similar results?

 

it gets narrowed down to a single combination on paper but you talk through the combos along the way. I don't think there is one single shaft for say a driver that is perfect fit over others, I think you will fall into a general category of shafts that work fine, look at how much the pro's are switching driver shafts around. For me even the color/designs on the shaft plays a part in if I want to play it. If it looks cool I will probably hit it better is my reasoning.

 

To answer your question, on paper you will get one combo printed but during the process you talk about the different shafts and the results so you will come out with an idea of category of shafts that will work.

[KMeloney]

So...when I go back for my driving fitting anyone wanna bet the recommended shaft will be stock\no upcharge? I guess my hurt comes from the fact I found a stock steel shaft with better results for the same make\model iron than was recommended. How could that be? Only 2 conclusions. Fitting itself was flawed or CC absolutely tries their best to sell shafts. Neither is good...

 

I even made it easy on the guy. Told him I didn't care what head or shaft, I want the one that produces the best results.

 

You can bet that you haven't made ANYTHING easy for the fitter. With you being so convinced that your conspiracy theories are true, why bother going back for a driver fitting?

 

Let's be honest here... You never actually communicated with the fitter that you wanted to hit stock shafts in the first place, did you?

[jvincent]

So...when I go back for my driving fitting anyone wanna bet the recommended shaft will be stock\no upcharge? I guess my hurt comes from the fact I found a stock steel shaft with better results for the same make\model iron than was recommended. How could that be? Only 2 conclusions. Fitting itself was flawed or CC absolutely tries their best to sell shafts. Neither is good...

 

I even made it easy on the guy. Told him I didn't care what head or shaft, I want the one that produces the best results.

 

I'd suggest you watch the following video.

 

 

TLDR: communicate your expectations and what you're looking for up front with fitter.

[Dscvrr St Louis]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

 

Certain shaft companies, most actually, only sell shafts thru dealers that install or build that shaft for the client/buyer to make sure it is done correctly when a new shaft is involved. Depends on the shaft company.

[Jim In SC]

So back to my original question, will Club Champion sell you just a shaft without a head? Or will they only let you buy the total package?

 

You can buy the shaft from anyone. CC gives you all the specs. I went there for a full bag fitting and got everything either on this site or thru my local fitter who did the actual build. The advantage i see by using your local fitter is post build tweaking.

[skyking]

You can bet that you haven't made ANYTHING easy for the fitter. With you being so convinced that your conspiracy theories are true, why bother going back for a driver fitting?

Uh...because it's already paid for and how else to prove my "conspiracy theories". Wow...Not being part of the basket of deplorables, I've never been accused of having any conspiracy theories before.

 

Let's be honest here... You never actually communicated with the fitter that you wanted to hit stock shafts in the first place, did you?

 

You are absolutely correct. I didn't tell him I wanted to try stock shafts. I didn't tell Bill Iseri at PING's Tournament Players Division I wanted to try stock shafts either but that's what I got. I truly didn't realize by not asking to try stock shafts the fitter can assume I only wanted to be fitted for expensive aftermarket shafts. Thanks for the tip.