Still Stunned After Getting Estimate From Club Champ Fitting

[skyking]

So...when I go back for my driving fitting anyone wanna bet the recommended shaft will be stock\no upcharge? I guess my hurt comes from the fact I found a stock steel shaft with better results for the same make\model iron than was recommended. How could that be? Only 2 conclusions. Fitting itself was flawed or CC absolutely tries their best to sell shafts. Neither is good...

 

I even made it easy on the guy. Told him I didn't care what head or shaft, I want the one that produces the best results.

 

I'd suggest you watch the following video.

 

 

TLDR: communicate your expectations and what you're looking for up front with fitter.

 

Yep...wished I had watched it. Thanks. Found these guys a few days before the fitting on YouTube but regretfully didn't see this video. Guess I didn't make the fitter's job easy. I was naive not knowing there are $80 iron shafts out there (and probably higher). I didn't really have a budget in mind as the video suggests because I didn't realize I'd be handed a print for $3,000.

[KMeloney]

Looks like something finally clicked with you between your last response to me and your next response. That’s good. Maybe now your driver fitting will be satisfactory, assuming you’re now willing to communicate with the fitter what you hope to get from the session.

 

 

 

 

 

[skyking]

Looks like something finally clicked with you between your last response to me and your next response. That’s good. Maybe now your driver fitting will be satisfactory, assuming you’re now willing to communicate with the fitter what you hope to get from the session.

 

Well...I didn't realize any of my prior posts stated that I was unwilling to communicate. I've never thought there was blame for not doing something you didn't realize you were suppose to do in the first place. Of course my wife has disagreed with that logic at times.

[5hort5tuff]

Looks like something finally clicked with you between your last response to me and your next response. That’s good. Maybe now your driver fitting will be satisfactory, assuming you’re now willing to communicate with the fitter what you hope to get from the session.

 

Well...I didn't realize any of my prior posts stated that I was unwilling to communicate. I've never thought there was blame for not doing something you didn't realize you were suppose to do in the first place. Of course my wife has disagreed with that logic at times.

 

I think ultimately this isn't your fault, but you will never make the same mistake again. It's very important to research the fitters too!

 

I would definitely go back and get fit for the driver. You paid for It...there's nothing wrong with getting what you paid for.

 

 

[toc]

How is this thread still going?!

[jvincent]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

[rgk5]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

 

So let me get this straight. You want Club Champion to sell you clubs and shafts at cost, or very near to it, and charge MSRP + a minimal amount for them to build your clubs for you?? Good. Freaking. Luck. You want the good stuff, you have to pay for the good stuff. You don't walk into the Audi dealership and demand to pay the Jetta price because you get sticker shock. Either buy it or don't. There is nothing inherently wrong with CC's pricing policies, they are very out in the open that they do a la carte pricing. If you want mediocre club work done in a limited range of options, buy OEM. If you want the best, but cheaper, buy the parts next year used and piece it together, if you want the best right now, pony up the cash and don't worry about it.

 

A company is not going to be in business very long making 5% margins on non-necessary items such as golf equipment. I also noticed you are shocked that you got quote "better" results with a steel shaft and feel slighted that they would recommend instead of steel. Did you stop and think that either 1) your swing was different one day to the next, and 2) were you able to hit the Fujikura Pro in the exact same head against the Nippon shaft? No, didn't think so. So maybe at the end of your driving fitting, ask to do so.

 

If you really want the Hot Metals and find the graphite works best, just order them with the stock PX shaft. It's not going to be vastly different from what you tried, and if it is, well, its on you for not buying what worked best. As a fitter, I always tell my clients they are free to purchase what they want, where they want, but if the results are not up to snuff, it's not really on me. I showed you what worked best given your budget, or lackthereof in some instances, and if you choose to buy something else, that's not my problem.

[MK7Golf21]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

 

So let me get this straight. You want Club Champion to sell you clubs and shafts at cost, or very near to it, and charge MSRP + a minimal amount for them to build your clubs for you?? Good. Freaking. Luck. You want the good stuff, you have to pay for the good stuff. You don't walk into the Audi dealership and demand to pay the Jetta price because you get sticker shock. Either buy it or don't. There is nothing inherently wrong with CC's pricing policies, they are very out in the open that they do a la carte pricing. If you want mediocre club work done in a limited range of options, buy OEM. If you want the best, but cheaper, buy the parts next year used and piece it together, if you want the best right now, pony up the cash and don't worry about it.

 

A company is not going to be in business very long making 5% margins on non-necessary items such as golf equipment. I also noticed you are shocked that you got quote "better" results with a steel shaft and feel slighted that they would recommend instead of steel. Did you stop and think that either 1) your swing was different one day to the next, and 2) were you able to hit the Fujikura Pro in the exact same head against the Nippon shaft? No, didn't think so. So maybe at the end of your driving fitting, ask to do so.

 

If you really want the Hot Metals and find the graphite works best, just order them with the stock PX shaft. It's not going to be vastly different from what you tried, and if it is, well, its on you for not buying what worked best. As a fitter, I always tell my clients they are free to purchase what they want, where they want, but if the results are not up to snuff, it's not really on me. I showed you what worked best given your budget, or lackthereof in some instances, and if you choose to buy something else, that's not my problem.

 

Oems do get lie/loft and swingweight off somewhat. I’m not that sensitive to notice but if I wanted it done to a high standard I would order my set at specs I want from OEM with grips uninstalled. Take it to my local golf shop which does professional club building and have them check the specs, install grips and adjust where needed. I’d prob save atleast a grand with same results

[jvincent]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

 

So let me get this straight. You want Club Champion to sell you clubs and shafts at cost, or very near to it, and charge MSRP + a minimal amount for them to build your clubs for you?? Good. Freaking. Luck. You want the good stuff, you have to pay for the good stuff. You don't walk into the Audi dealership and demand to pay the Jetta price because you get sticker shock. Either buy it or don't. There is nothing inherently wrong with CC's pricing policies, they are very out in the open that they do a la carte pricing. If you want mediocre club work done in a limited range of options, buy OEM. If you want the best, but cheaper, buy the parts next year used and piece it together, if you want the best right now, pony up the cash and don't worry about it.

 

A company is not going to be in business very long making 5% margins on non-necessary items such as golf equipment. I also noticed you are shocked that you got quote "better" results with a steel shaft and feel slighted that they would recommend instead of steel. Did you stop and think that either 1) your swing was different one day to the next, and 2) were you able to hit the Fujikura Pro in the exact same head against the Nippon shaft? No, didn't think so. So maybe at the end of your driving fitting, ask to do so.

 

If you really want the Hot Metals and find the graphite works best, just order them with the stock PX shaft. It's not going to be vastly different from what you tried, and if it is, well, its on you for not buying what worked best. As a fitter, I always tell my clients they are free to purchase what they want, where they want, but if the results are not up to snuff, it's not really on me. I showed you what worked best given your budget, or lackthereof in some instances, and if you choose to buy something else, that's not my problem.

 

I think you might be confusing me with the OP, I haven't gotten a fitting at CC. I was just discussing their pricing model.

 

I didn't say I wanted it at or near cost. What I disagree with is their pricing model, assuming what has been related here is correct. If I'm getting clubs built from a "large" custom shop then buying a set at full retail and then having them do the work is just silly. I would expect them to have access to the heads/shafts at wholesale prices direct from the manufacturer.

 

Again, I never said they should have 5% margin either. I'm just saying they can be more informative in how they present what they are selling.

[KMo23]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

 

Do you know what wholesale is? If so, why would somebody “sell” you something at wholesale (cost)? If they aren’t making money and selling at cost, they’d be out of business inside 3 months.

 

Fitting fees alone won’t pay for demos, staff, utilities, and a lease. Places like Club Champion, Cool Clubs, and TXG exist because people see value in a tour quality build. Not because people go in there and pay a fitting fee. Those places would cease to exist if guys (like many on here) try and glue together used product from the BST in their garage to the same specs found during a fitting.

 

If you’re not an avid golfer or you don’t see value in that tour build, don’t leave the fitting and say “I’ll think about it” and then come in this forum and complain about high prices. Communicate to the fitter that you’re not interested in the best performance but you’d rather have the cheapest deal you can find. If you don’t care about having brand new product and are going to try and find used, tell them.

 

Communication in golf lessons and club fittings are key!!!

“Hey fitter- this is my budget. I want new irons or driver or putter.”

“Hey fitter- I want to try only shaft options I can get from the manufacturer. Not interested in high end exotic shafts.”

“Hey fitter- I’m only Here for info and am going to try and buy everything online. I’d still like the best possible performance OR this is still my budget.”

 

As long as you communicate- you won’t waste your time, money, and you definitely won’t waste the fitters time being up front and honest! They will appreciate it.

 

Most fitters just want to give you the best possible clubs for your game. Like TXG says in their video that comes from weight sorting, frequency matching, etc. you can still order stock custom from all fitting places!

 

Signed,

 

Fitters across the world

[rgk5]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

 

So let me get this straight. You want Club Champion to sell you clubs and shafts at cost, or very near to it, and charge MSRP + a minimal amount for them to build your clubs for you?? Good. Freaking. Luck. You want the good stuff, you have to pay for the good stuff. You don't walk into the Audi dealership and demand to pay the Jetta price because you get sticker shock. Either buy it or don't. There is nothing inherently wrong with CC's pricing policies, they are very out in the open that they do a la carte pricing. If you want mediocre club work done in a limited range of options, buy OEM. If you want the best, but cheaper, buy the parts next year used and piece it together, if you want the best right now, pony up the cash and don't worry about it.

 

A company is not going to be in business very long making 5% margins on non-necessary items such as golf equipment. I also noticed you are shocked that you got quote "better" results with a steel shaft and feel slighted that they would recommend instead of steel. Did you stop and think that either 1) your swing was different one day to the next, and 2) were you able to hit the Fujikura Pro in the exact same head against the Nippon shaft? No, didn't think so. So maybe at the end of your driving fitting, ask to do so.

 

If you really want the Hot Metals and find the graphite works best, just order them with the stock PX shaft. It's not going to be vastly different from what you tried, and if it is, well, its on you for not buying what worked best. As a fitter, I always tell my clients they are free to purchase what they want, where they want, but if the results are not up to snuff, it's not really on me. I showed you what worked best given your budget, or lackthereof in some instances, and if you choose to buy something else, that's not my problem.

 

I think you might be confusing me with the OP, I haven't gotten a fitting at CC. I was just discussing their pricing model.

 

I didn't say I wanted it at or near cost. What I disagree with is their pricing model, assuming what has been related here is correct. If I'm getting clubs built from a "large" custom shop then buying a set at full retail and then having them do the work is just silly. I would expect them to have access to the heads/shafts at wholesale prices direct from the manufacturer.

 

Again, I never said they should have 5% margin either. I'm just saying they can be more informative in how they present what they are selling.

 

My apologies, all of the non-avatar'd users in this thread make it confusing to follow along if you don't memorize the name. However, the point still stands. Cost is cost, and often, smaller shops such as CC who buy on a piece by piece basis (despite being located country wide) vs. buying in bulk like a GG or PGA Superstore ususally means that companies that do small orders are getting charged more, even if they happen to sell more new product. The OEMs don't care, they are like any other business. More money now or by next week is far more attractive than the same dollar amount spread out over 7-9 months, or however long a product cycle might be. Let's pretend for a minute that what CC pays is the exact same cost as PGA Super Store. Assuming the typical 25% mark up on a head still applies, why would a company sell you a head at cost + 5% or whatever it is, or in your initial post, at wholesale (read: cost)? They make zero money doing that. None. Even if we include the "reasonable" markup to be say, $20 a club to frequency match, swing weight, and all that jazz that CC does, they aren't making any money.

 

Just for argument's sake, let's use an iron that costs $100 per club wholesale, plus a $10 grip wholesale, plus a $30 shaft wholesale, plus the $20 assembly fee. CC is charged $140 from the OEMs for this club, but they are charging you $160. That means they are making 14.5% roughly on each iron that they sell. That is not nearly enough to keep the doors open when you consider, heating/cooling, electricity, staff, machines (Trackman/GC Quads are like $25k each x 2-4 bays), golf balls, tees, they have to pay for the demos on the shaft walls and in the drawers that are often marked "demo - not for resale" meaning they cannot flip them at the end of the year for a little extra cash flow.

 

CC is not charging the extra money as an idiot tax. It is a necessary by-product of facility upkeep while still making money to keep the fancy toys looking fancy. Again, my analogy of the cars applies. You don't walk into the Audi dealer and demand the Jetta price. If the cost is really that prohibitive, I say tell your fitter upfront (again not you but the OP) that I have X in my budget and no more. As a fitter, I am not going to judge you for not spending a lot of money. When I am going to get annoyed is if you tell me that you are open and then get annoyed at me when I show you the price after you've roped every single shot dead straight exactly in our launch and spin window. That is the thing that irks me. Or when you come in and buy something second hand and tell me it doesn't work as well in the fitting like it is my fault. I showed you what worked and the cost to get it built by us with our performance guarantee; if you aren't happy after sourcing plan B somewhere else, that's not my problem.

 

I should probably end this by saying I don't work at CC, but I am a fitter elsewhere.

[DavePelz4]

Companies have different strategies. The PGATSS is much lower margin oriented, more volume oriented, trying to appeal to the masses.

 

CC is targeted to a specific subset of golfers who want service, customization, personalization, and are willing to pay a premium to get that.

[jvincent]

Do you know what wholesale is? If so, why would somebody "sell" you something at wholesale (cost)? If they aren't making money and selling at cost, they'd be out of business inside 3 months.

 

I'm having a hard time getting my point across. I'll try again.

 

I'm not saying that they should sell to me at wholesale. I'm saying that they should have access to parts direct from the manufacturer at wholesale for the brands they stock.

 

For example, if I go to them and they fit me into a set of AP2s with a set of Oban shafts, they shouldn't be ordering a set of AP2s from Golf Galaxy, pulling the shafts, and then building my clubs. They should be getting a set of fresh AP2 heads direct from Titleist. Note, I'm assuming Titleist supports that model.

 

Having to source a set of clubs from a different retail channel for their build does not strike me as being a "Tour" experience.

 

If I bring them a set I'd like fitted/adjusted that's a different story.

[Matt J]

I'd be more skeptical that it is supposed to be a definitive fitting and it's done off of carpet mats. Green grass. Trackman. Build your own clubs. That's the WRX way :)

[jvincent]

Good threads never die.

 

On topic, here's what I would expect in terms of pricing if I were to buy a set of clubs from somebody like Club Champion.

 

- Heads would be sourced direct from the manufacturer at wholesale prices. I.e. don't pay full retail for a set as a starting point.

- Shafts and grips would also be sourced at wholesale prices

- Assembled clubs would be sold at MAP plus a reasonable markup to account for build time.

- Invoice should show a detailed break down of material and labour costs, just like when you take your car to the mechanic.

 

That way everything is out in the open. If you have a set of heads you'd like them to re-shaft and adjust then the pricing is right there in the open. It also allows for different assembly pricing depending on the services performed (PURing, bending, etc).

 

So let me get this straight. You want Club Champion to sell you clubs and shafts at cost, or very near to it, and charge MSRP + a minimal amount for them to build your clubs for you?? Good. Freaking. Luck. You want the good stuff, you have to pay for the good stuff. You don't walk into the Audi dealership and demand to pay the Jetta price because you get sticker shock. Either buy it or don't. There is nothing inherently wrong with CC's pricing policies, they are very out in the open that they do a la carte pricing. If you want mediocre club work done in a limited range of options, buy OEM. If you want the best, but cheaper, buy the parts next year used and piece it together, if you want the best right now, pony up the cash and don't worry about it.

 

A company is not going to be in business very long making 5% margins on non-necessary items such as golf equipment. I also noticed you are shocked that you got quote "better" results with a steel shaft and feel slighted that they would recommend instead of steel. Did you stop and think that either 1) your swing was different one day to the next, and 2) were you able to hit the Fujikura Pro in the exact same head against the Nippon shaft? No, didn't think so. So maybe at the end of your driving fitting, ask to do so.

 

If you really want the Hot Metals and find the graphite works best, just order them with the stock PX shaft. It's not going to be vastly different from what you tried, and if it is, well, its on you for not buying what worked best. As a fitter, I always tell my clients they are free to purchase what they want, where they want, but if the results are not up to snuff, it's not really on me. I showed you what worked best given your budget, or lackthereof in some instances, and if you choose to buy something else, that's not my problem.

 

I think you might be confusing me with the OP, I haven't gotten a fitting at CC. I was just discussing their pricing model.

 

I didn't say I wanted it at or near cost. What I disagree with is their pricing model, assuming what has been related here is correct. If I'm getting clubs built from a "large" custom shop then buying a set at full retail and then having them do the work is just silly. I would expect them to have access to the heads/shafts at wholesale prices direct from the manufacturer.

 

Again, I never said they should have 5% margin either. I'm just saying they can be more informative in how they present what they are selling.

 

My apologies, all of the non-avatar'd users in this thread make it confusing to follow along if you don't memorize the name. However, the point still stands. Cost is cost, and often, smaller shops such as CC who buy on a piece by piece basis (despite being located country wide) vs. buying in bulk like a GG or PGA Superstore ususally means that companies that do small orders are getting charged more, even if they happen to sell more new product. The OEMs don't care, they are like any other business. More money now or by next week is far more attractive than the same dollar amount spread out over 7-9 months, or however long a product cycle might be. Let's pretend for a minute that what CC pays is the exact same cost as PGA Super Store. Assuming the typical 25% mark up on a head still applies, why would a company sell you a head at cost + 5% or whatever it is, or in your initial post, at wholesale (read: cost)? They make zero money doing that. None. Even if we include the "reasonable" markup to be say, $20 a club to frequency match, swing weight, and all that jazz that CC does, they aren't making any money.

 

Just for argument's sake, let's use an iron that costs $100 per club wholesale, plus a $10 grip wholesale, plus a $30 shaft wholesale, plus the $20 assembly fee. CC is charged $140 from the OEMs for this club, but they are charging you $160. That means they are making 14.5% roughly on each iron that they sell. That is not nearly enough to keep the doors open when you consider, heating/cooling, electricity, staff, machines (Trackman/GC Quads are like $25k each x 2-4 bays), golf balls, tees, they have to pay for the demos on the shaft walls and in the drawers that are often marked "demo - not for resale" meaning they cannot flip them at the end of the year for a little extra cash flow.

 

CC is not charging the extra money as an idiot tax. It is a necessary by-product of facility upkeep while still making money to keep the fancy toys looking fancy. Again, my analogy of the cars applies. You don't walk into the Audi dealer and demand the Jetta price. If the cost is really that prohibitive, I say tell your fitter upfront (again not you but the OP) that I have X in my budget and no more. As a fitter, I am not going to judge you for not spending a lot of money. When I am going to get annoyed is if you tell me that you are open and then get annoyed at me when I show you the price after you've roped every single shot dead straight exactly in our launch and spin window. That is the thing that irks me. Or when you come in and buy something second hand and tell me it doesn't work as well in the fitting like it is my fault. I showed you what worked and the cost to get it built by us with our performance guarantee; if you aren't happy after sourcing plan B somewhere else, that's not my problem.

 

I should probably end this by saying I don't work at CC, but I am a fitter elsewhere.

 

Thanks for the reminder that I need to get an avatar.

 

To try and clear up what I'm saying, I think CC should be selling at MAP + markup. The fact that they get parts at wholesale should mean more profit for them.

 

I'm assuming here that getting heads wholesale is actually cheaper than getting sets from GG.

[Matt J]

Do you know what wholesale is? If so, why would somebody "sell" you something at wholesale (cost)? If they aren't making money and selling at cost, they'd be out of business inside 3 months.

 

I'm having a hard time getting my point across. I'll try again.

 

I'm not saying that they should sell to me at wholesale. I'm saying that they should have access to parts direct from the manufacturer at wholesale for the brands they stock.

 

For example, if I go to them and they fit me into a set of AP2s with a set of Oban shafts, they shouldn't be ordering a set of AP2s from Golf Galaxy, pulling the shafts, and then building my clubs. They should be getting a set of fresh AP2 heads direct from Titleist. Note, I'm assuming Titleist supports that model.

 

Having to source a set of clubs from a different retail channel for their build does not strike me as being a "Tour" experience.

 

If I bring them a set I'd like fitted/adjusted that's a different story.

 

I had the exact same thought, but I don't think Titleist or most other big manufacturers sell heads. You basically have to buy them with a no upcharge stocck shaft and pull them. Super wasteful. I bought 30 wedge shafts (mostly use them in putter builds) from a store because they were all pulls from Vokeys. Just the way it works.

[KMo23]

Do you know what wholesale is? If so, why would somebody "sell" you something at wholesale (cost)? If they aren't making money and selling at cost, they'd be out of business inside 3 months.

 

I'm having a hard time getting my point across. I'll try again.

 

I'm not saying that they should sell to me at wholesale. I'm saying that they should have access to parts direct from the manufacturer at wholesale for the brands they stock.

 

For example, if I go to them and they fit me into a set of AP2s with a set of Oban shafts, they shouldn't be ordering a set of AP2s from Golf Galaxy, pulling the shafts, and then building my clubs. They should be getting a set of fresh AP2 heads direct from Titleist. Note, I'm assuming Titleist supports that model.

 

Having to source a set of clubs from a different retail channel for their build does not strike me as being a "Tour" experience.

 

If I bring them a set I'd like fitted/adjusted that's a different story.

 

Just like Cool Clubs and Hotstix, CC is heads only from all OEM minus Ping. They’re not ordering built sets, pulling and tossing stock shafts, and then rebuilding.

[deadsolid...shank]

You can bet that you haven't made ANYTHING easy for the fitter. With you being so convinced that your conspiracy theories are true, why bother going back for a driver fitting?

Uh...because it's already paid for and how else to prove my "conspiracy theories". Wow...Not being part of the basket of deplorables, I've never been accused of having any conspiracy theories before.

 

Let's be honest here... You never actually communicated with the fitter that you wanted to hit stock shafts in the first place, did you?

 

You are absolutely correct. I didn't tell him I wanted to try stock shafts. I didn't tell Bill Iseri at PING's Tournament Players Division I wanted to try stock shafts either but that's what I got. I truly didn't realize by not asking to try stock shafts the fitter can assume I only wanted to be fitted for expensive aftermarket shafts. Thanks for the tip.

 

If you just go in and don’t give any limits or expectations of course they’re going to try and sell the most expensive (and profitable) merchandise.

 

I don’t get it, it’s almost like you’re looking for something to be mad at them about. When they did business EXACTLY as you would expect them to. If you have a price limit, let them know going in. Otherwise all they can think is you don’t have a limit, and they’re going to be looking to maximize their profits.

 

As several have said, communication is key. Upfront.

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Do you know what wholesale is? If so, why would somebody "sell" you something at wholesale (cost)? If they aren't making money and selling at cost, they'd be out of business inside 3 months.

 

I'm having a hard time getting my point across. I'll try again.

 

I'm not saying that they should sell to me at wholesale. I'm saying that they should have access to parts direct from the manufacturer at wholesale for the brands they stock.

 

For example, if I go to them and they fit me into a set of AP2s with a set of Oban shafts, they shouldn't be ordering a set of AP2s from Golf Galaxy, pulling the shafts, and then building my clubs. They should be getting a set of fresh AP2 heads direct from Titleist. Note, I'm assuming Titleist supports that model.

 

Having to source a set of clubs from a different retail channel for their build does not strike me as being a "Tour" experience.

 

If I bring them a set I'd like fitted/adjusted that's a different story.

 

I had the exact same thought, but I don't think Titleist or most other big manufacturers sell heads. You basically have to buy them with a no upcharge stocck shaft and pull them. Super wasteful. I bought 30 wedge shafts (mostly use them in putter builds) from a store because they were all pulls from Vokeys. Just the way it works.

 

To be clear, all OEM heads come from the OEM's at whatever cost all retail pay to get their OEM clubs. CC gets heads only, and OEM's require MAP pricing on the stock heads or STOCK sets at Big Box or anywhere you can buy complete sets. All shafts come from the shaft companies, all the grips are sourced from the grip companies.

There are programs within the OEMS to send heads only to fitter/buiders for their products and have to have accounts with each OEM.

[trhode]

Yes, we also have had head only accounts with OEM's for many years now. I don't know why people think we take clubs apart and rebuild them.

[BIG STU]

Received several notes from NIck S. from CC over the weekend. For some reason he's having difficulty with getting registered for the site but is still planning on jumping in the deep end with us.

 

He should take the "difficulty getting registered for the site" as an omen, and follow his instincts.

 

In reality, I'm glad to see he is wanting to come on here. I just hope that our members are civil to him, and don't display the wonton arrogance/ignorance that will occasionally come out.

Yeah it is starting to get a little heated in here. I spoke my bit and I will leave it at that. But did read all of Howard's posts and deciphered that and filed it away for future knowledge. I guess i am in before the or before this being moved to the "cooler"

[Matt J]

Live and learn. Good to know they have "heads only" orders, too bad it's the same price as with a stock shaft.

[jvincent]

Live and learn. Good to know they have "heads only" orders, too bad it's the same price as with a stock shaft.

 

Don't think of it that way.

 

Think of it as a MAP (minimum advertised price) for a set of irons. If you did a fitting session and decided on a stock shaft with no further adjustments you could buy it from them, presumably at MAP or close to it since they are doing the assembly or you could buy it at retail.

 

Or, if you wanted a more exotic setup with customizations then you'd certainly pay more.

 

Again, the purchaser needs to make their intent clear and the builder needs to be clear on their pricing model.

[Dscvrr St Louis]

Live and learn. Good to know they have "heads only" orders, too bad it's the same price as with a stock shaft.

 

Don't think of it that way.

 

Think of it as a MAP (minimum advertised price) for a set of irons. If you did a fitting session and decided on a stock shaft with no further adjustments you could buy it from them, presumably at MAP or close to it since they are doing the assembly or you could buy it at retail.

 

Or, if you wanted a more exotic setup with customizations then you'd certainly pay more.

 

Again, the purchaser needs to make their intent clear and the builder needs to be clear on their pricing model.

 

If the client goes 'STOCK ORDER' shaft and head are assembled at the OEM. Recommendation would be to have rebuilt to Swing weight, as no OEM does swingweight requests(caveat--Ping says they will, but have had very mixed results). But don't expect it to match what you were fit for during the fitting, unless CC does the rebuild. CC would bend to loft and lie as fit for. Shaft weight could vary enough to make a flex difference with the tolerances within the shaft manufacturing. BUT if the client is willing to take that chance to save a some coin, that is THEIR decision and we will order accordingly, do it all the time. I am so confused when the client doesn't ask about all the options available for the purchase. I explain all the reasoning behind going the full monty on the build, but nothing is absolute. If during the interview, I glean that budget is a factor, I simply ASK what it is and fit accordingly. Information shared early on and during the fitting is key and helps both parties have a great result when done.

[cxx]

I wonder how long this business model will last. The pricing does seem excessive every time I hear someone relate their experience. Not sure that it is worth it for a majority of golfers. Does it help a mid/high handicap golfer improve? Maybe, but only if there is a gross mismatch in what that golfer is currently playing.

 

I have been seeing some TV adds for CC on the golf channel. That's kind of new.

 

Seems like this is ripe territory for some undercover expose'. I don't think 60 minutes would do it, but some youtube channel might.

[raynorfan1]

From my perspective, Club Champion can (and should) charge what they want to charge. People will either buy their gear from them or they won't.

 

Where they're making a mistake, IMHO, is when they itemize the bill. When they say that the Titleist driver head is $499.99 (the exact same price as MSRP for the full club anywhere else), it creates confusion about what they're selling. Then they backtrack and talk about having to order the full club, and disassemble it into components, yada yada.

 

They'd be better off if they said: the Titleist head only is $600. Titleist charges us more because we are very picky about the heads that we receive, and they know we measure every single one of them.

 

It's the line itemization that kills them. If they just gave fully-built prices - the Titleist driver with this shaft costs $1,200 - and justified it with the service that they delivered, there would be much less opportunity to be critical.

[cbbaron]

I wonder how long this business model will last. The pricing does seem excessive every time I hear someone relate their experience. Not sure that it is worth it for a majority of golfers. Does it help a mid/high handicap golfer improve? Maybe, but only if there is a gross mismatch in what that golfer is currently playing.

 

I have been seeing some TV adds for CC on the golf channel. That's kind of new.

 

Seems like this is ripe territory for some undercover expose'. I don't think 60 minutes would do it, but some youtube channel might.

I can speak for their Needham Mass location it is in a area where the average price of a house is 750000 to 1.2 million and when you call to get an appointment it is very difficult the store does very well

[JCAG]

Companies have different strategies. The PGATSS is much lower margin oriented, more volume oriented, trying to appeal to the masses.

 

CC is targeted to a specific subset of golfers who want service, customization, personalization, and are willing to pay a premium to get that.

 

And if one is not willing to pay for the service, customization, personalization, etc. then they should move on down the road rather than bytch.

[KMo23]

I wonder how long this business model will last. The pricing does seem excessive every time I hear someone relate their experience. Not sure that it is worth it for a majority of golfers. Does it help a mid/high handicap golfer improve? Maybe, but only if there is a gross mismatch in what that golfer is currently playing.

 

I have been seeing some TV adds for CC on the golf channel. That's kind of new.

 

Seems like this is ripe territory for some undercover expose'. I don't think 60 minutes would do it, but some youtube channel might.

 

CC has been in business for 20 years (under a different name until 2010) and now has 40 stores nationally. Pricing is the same as anywhere else, unless you want exotic shafts or a CC build.

[KMeloney]

I wonder how long this business model will last. The pricing does seem excessive every time I hear someone relate their experience. Not sure that it is worth it for a majority of golfers. Does it help a mid/high handicap golfer improve? Maybe, but only if there is a gross mismatch in what that golfer is currently playing.

 

I have been seeing some TV adds for CC on the golf channel. That's kind of new.

 

Seems like this is ripe territory for some undercover expose'. I don't think 60 minutes would do it, but some youtube channel might.

 

I can’t tell whether you’re kidding about the idea of needing to “expose” CC (for some wrongdoing, presumably), but I don’t think you’re looking at this the right way.

 

CC has been around for a while now.

They have overhead to pay for.

It doesn’t have to be “worth it” to a majority of golfers— just to enough golfers.

Fittings by anyone might not still be a thing if they didn’t benefit anyone, even (especially?) mid to high cappers.

 

There are countless goods and services out there that “most people” can’t afford and/or have no interest in. I don’t begrudge CC for doing things the way they do any more than I fault Ferrari for making expensive cars.