2019 Rules of Golf

[augustgolf]

Ok guys and gals.

 

 

Reading quite a bit tonight. Came upon a question.

 

I see that a club broken in anger or otherwise may be continued to be used in its damaged state. That part is clear.

 

My question is on replacement. 4.1 specifically...I know it cannot be replaced if broken in anger , and that it says a club may be replaced if broken by an outside source or someone other than the player or his caddie.

 

This scenario happened to me 2 years ago in our county am.

 

Using a long plumbers neck anser shaped putter. Walking down a hill with putter and a wedge in hand . Grass was covered in morning dew. I slip and in effort to catch myself drop my clubs. I gain balance and in one motion grab for my putter mid air. I caught just enough of the grip to send it flipping into the air higher. And it came down toe first on a sprinkler head. At first I thought it hadnt done anything. Then I see the neck is bent 4-5 degrees backward ( as in flatter lie ) and somewhat forwArd . (As in stronger loft. ) Absolutely unusable. I had 2 playing partners within 10 ft of this. So they knew I didnt do it on purpose.

 

Called an official and was allowed to replace it under the rules with a second putter I had in the car.

 

Would I be allowed to replace it now ? As in what is the outside force ? Dew on the grass ? Sprinkler head ? Or would I be SOL ? ( hopefully it never happens again ).

 

Youd be SOL.

But, you weren't penalized with a video endlessly running on IG and/or Twitter

[bladehunter]

Lol. Well that sucks.

 

And yes. Thankfully that wasn’t on film. I’m sure it was hilarious and yet somehow cringeworthy too

[Mr. Bean]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

[bladehunter]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

 

 

crap out of luck ....

 

 

Thanks for the answer.. I read it that way too. Wonder why the exception to allow continued use of a broken club in anger and yet not allow a replacement club for an accident ?

[Newby]

Consistency.

 

Continue - yes for whatever reason

Replace - no (unless player did not cause damage - which seems reasonable enough).

[Sawgrass]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

 

 

crap out of luck ....

 

 

Thanks for the answer.. I read it that way too. Wonder why the exception to allow continued use of a broken club in anger and yet not allow a replacement club for an accident ?

To be clear, you are not allowed to replace a club you damaged no matter how it's damaged. Normal course of play or not, you can't do it.

 

But now you can attempt to fix it (as long as you don't import a new shaft, head or grip). And you can fix it irrespective of whether you intentionally bent it over your knee or accidentally hit a branch on your follow through. So bend that shaft back into shape if you can, and have at it. And walk more carefully!

[Mr. Bean]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

 

 

crap out of luck ....

 

 

Thanks for the answer.. I read it that way too. Wonder why the exception to allow continued use of a broken club in anger and yet not allow a replacement club for an accident ?

 

If you break your club yourself you just have to live with it. If someone else breaks your club you are not responsible and may change it.

 

Much more logical than the old Rule.

[bladehunter]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

 

 

crap out of luck ....

 

 

Thanks for the answer.. I read it that way too. Wonder why the exception to allow continued use of a broken club in anger and yet not allow a replacement club for an accident ?

To be clear, you are not allowed to replace a club you damaged no matter how it's damaged. Normal course of play or not, you can't do it.

 

But now you can attempt to fix it (as long as you don't import a new shaft, head or grip). And you can fix it irrespective of whether you intentionally bent it over your knee or accidentally hit a branch on your follow through. So bend that shaft back into shape if you can, and have at it. And walk more carefully!

 

Yep. Hats how I read it too. Wasn’t the shaft though. Was the actual neck of the putter. Had to be sent off to fix it. Long plumbers necks are quite easy to tweak since they are thin and span a long distance ( 5 inches or so ).

 

Yes. Walk more carefully for sure.

Not sure I understand the change of mindset though. Penalty for an honest accident. But no penalty for purposefully whacking a club against something ? Not penalty really. But I guess lack of concession for the accident ?

 

In the end I guess it’s even. But I didn’t see the harm in me being allowed to replace it either. It feels like they are Taking away the benefit of the doubt I was given before. As in I’m treated same as the guy who broke his putter over his knee when there was once precident for those two to be treated differently ( as they are different ).

 

[bladehunter]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

 

 

crap out of luck ....

 

 

Thanks for the answer.. I read it that way too. Wonder why the exception to allow continued use of a broken club in anger and yet not allow a replacement club for an accident ?

 

If you break your club yourself you just have to live with it. If someone else breaks your club you are not responsible and may change it.

 

Much more logical than the old Rule.

 

Yes. IF that included accidents not involving other people.

 

I don’t see why it matters if joe playing partner steps on my putter or if I fall and drop it. Both accidents causing the same result.

[Sawgrass]

As I do not know what SOL is I say you would not be able to replace your club. Slipping is not what is meant by an outside influence.

 

 

crap out of luck ....

 

 

Thanks for the answer.. I read it that way too. Wonder why the exception to allow continued use of a broken club in anger and yet not allow a replacement club for an accident ?

 

If you break your club yourself you just have to live with it. If someone else breaks your club you are not responsible and may change it.

 

Much more logical than the old Rule.

 

Yes. IF that included accidents not involving other people.

 

I don't see why it matters if joe playing partner steps on my putter or if I fall and drop it. Both accidents causing the same result.

You're a much better player than I am. But with your suggestion to eliminate the replacement exemption if someone else breaks your club, I could beat you in a match by going over to your bag and breaking all 14. You'd probably beat something else then, like me, but my victory would have nevertheless been secured.

[bladehunter]

Consistency.

 

Continue - yes for whatever reason

Replace - no (unless player did not cause damage - which seems reasonable enough).

 

Guys. I read your responses and depending on what langue is used I hear different things. I of course read the rule and agree with the interpretation that I may not replace it. I’ve said so thrice.

 

But. In response to the quotes post here. If that’s al I had to go on I’d think I could replace it. Ultimately the sprinkler head caused the bend. Or the fall. Or the dew.

 

You may say “ well YOU fell causing al that to happen. Yes I did.

 

But what if I.... left it laying bunker side to hit a bunker shot and someone stepped on it breaking the shaft. Then I would have ultimately left it in harms way and using same logic I am still at fault. Yet rules say because a 2nd person is involved I can now replace it. How is that equitable ? To answer your post I would argue that I didn’t cause the damage. The fall and then sprinkler head did. I didn’t bang it , toss it , run over it , or fall on it. I actually nearly broke my neck trying to save it.

 

I’m truly not trying to be obtuse. And I’m not arguing the rule really. I guess I just cannot follow all the posts and come to the same conclusion each time. And I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you guys ALL know what you’re talking about. But I find these things as easy to be sure about as a legal discovery document detailing a 5 party love connection ending in murder. (Yes 5 lol ).

 

If there’s a question in that I guess it is... are there room for interpretation regarding what caused the damage. ?

 

Say I fall same. Putter goes flying. Playing partner sees putter mid air and tries to catch it. He’s clumsy ( more than me ) and steps on it instead breaking the shaft. I’m guess I can replace it then? But how does the cause differ ? Root cause that is.

[Sawgrass]

Consistency.

 

Continue - yes for whatever reason

Replace - no (unless player did not cause damage - which seems reasonable enough).

 

Guys. I read your responses and depending on what langue is used I hear different things. I of course read the rule and agree with the interpretation that I may not replace it. I've said so thrice.

 

But. In response to the quotes post here. If that's al I had to go on I'd think I could replace it. Ultimately the sprinkler head caused the bend. Or the fall. Or the dew.

 

You may say " well YOU fell causing al that to happen. Yes I did.

 

But what if I.... left it laying bunker side to hit a bunker shot and someone stepped on it breaking the shaft. Then I would have ultimately left it in harms way and using same logic I am still at fault. Yet rules say because a 2nd person is involved I can now replace it. How is that equitable ? To answer your post I would argue that I didn't cause the damage. The fall and then sprinkler head did. I didn't bang it , toss it , run over it , or fall on it. I actually nearly broke my neck trying to save it.

 

I'm truly not trying to be obtuse. And I'm not arguing the rule really. I guess I just cannot follow all the posts and come to the same conclusion each time. And I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you guys ALL know what you're talking about. But I find these things as easy to be sure about as a legal discovery document detailing a 5 party love connection ending in murder. (Yes 5 lol ).

 

If there's a question in that I guess it is... are there room for interpretation regarding what caused the damage. ?

 

Say I fall same. Putter goes flying. Playing partner sees putter mid air and tries to catch it. He's clumsy ( more than me ) and steps on it instead breaking the shaft. I'm guess I can replace it then? But how does the cause differ ? Root cause that is.

4.1b (3) says there's an exception to the rule against replacing your club if an outside influence (perhaps an animal) natural forces (perhaps lightning) or any person other than you or your caddie broke the club. No rule or interpretation that I'm aware of goes on to specifically define how you come up with which entity in a joint effort actually "caused" the damage. If this combination of perpetrators ever accidentally conspired to beak a club, I'd tend to be lenient on deciding who caused the damage and granting a replacement. In the meantime, play with people with better catching skills.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Thanks sawgrass. You seem to at least humor my misguided ramblings. I’m sorry to all the above. I’m just going to try to stay in the fairway with sure footing and hope for the best.

 

Id either have made a great or long winded Attorney . As I never seem to see black and white. At least that’s what my wife says. Instead I ramble and don’t get paid for it.

 

Maybe where my thinking comes from is that whatever can happen usually does happen. To me. So I alwasy consider the improbable.

[Mr. Bean]

I don't see why it matters if joe playing partner steps on my putter or if I fall and drop it. Both accidents causing the same result.

 

If that is how you see it, I cannot help you.

[Halebopp]

Guys,

 

Did the RBs say good bye to the water hazard provisional ball local rule or am I just struggling to find it?

[rogolf]

Committee Procedures, 8 B-3

[Shilgy]

Guys,

 

Did the RBs say good bye to the water hazard provisional ball local rule or am I just struggling to find it?

if you are looking for "water hazard" in the new rules you may not find what you seek!

 

See-some of us are learning. :)

 

PS-In looking at the allowable LR's I thought I saw something on that....

[Halebopp]

Committee Procedures, 8 B-3

 

Cheers! (Don't know how I could've missed that, I blame the design of the new R&A rules section)

 

Guys,

 

Did the RBs say good bye to the water hazard provisional ball local rule or am I just struggling to find it?

if you are looking for "water hazard" in the new rules you may not find what you seek!

 

See-some of us are learning. :)

 

PS-In looking at the allowable LR's I thought I saw something on that....

 

:tongue: :good:

[duffer987]

Played my first rounds of 2019 and the golfing world didn't end:

- I only had to redrop once

- I made contact with the surface of a penalty area

- Made 1 putt with the flag still in

- Advised one person on the new bunker rules

- Otherwise no different than 2018

 

I played 36 and played with 6 others that day and except for drops and that one question about the bunker, no 'new rules' things came up.

Everyone still wanted the flag out and when someone dunked one they took appropriate relief.

 

Of course, just casual rounds in 20-30mph winds to start the year, we'll see how the first comps go.

[antip]

Played my first rounds of 2019 and the golfing world didn't end:

- I only had to redrop once

- I made contact with the surface of a penalty area

- Made 1 putt with the flag still in

- Advised one person on the new bunker rules

- Otherwise no different than 2018

 

I played 36 and played with 6 others that day and except for drops and that one question about the bunker, no 'new rules' things came up.

Everyone still wanted the flag out and when someone dunked one they took appropriate relief.

 

Of course, just casual rounds in 20-30mph winds to start the year, we'll see how the first comps go.

Lots of excitement there, I only got to leave the flagstick in twice and three putted both times with the shadow of the flag dancing around and distracting. How sad!

[Sawgrass]

If anyone still cares, back a ways in this thread we were discussing the legitimacy of a penalty for a player who lifted his ball at the edge of a bunker because his stance was on a wrong green, and who then discovered that there was no place to drop in the bunker that was no closer to the hole. I just heard from the USGA, and they confirmed my belief that the player would be stuck with a penalty. They likened it to other similar situations, such as the 12/18/18 Clarification about an embedded ball in the lip of a bunker when there’s no general area nearby in which to drop.

 

I had asked if this was intended in the writing the of rule (since I presumed I had interpreted it correctly) and they didn’t choose to comment on that.

[Newby]

Thanks for that.

[antip]

If anyone still cares, back a ways in this thread we were discussing the legitimacy of a penalty for a player who lifted his ball at the edge of a bunker because his stance was on a wrong green, and who then discovered that there was no place to drop in the bunker that was no closer to the hole. I just heard from the USGA, and they confirmed my belief that the player would be stuck with a penalty. They likened it to other similar situations, such as the 12/18/18 Clarification about an embedded ball in the lip of a bunker when there’s no general area nearby in which to drop.

 

I had asked if this was intended in the writing the of rule (since I presumed I had interpreted it correctly) and they didn’t choose to comment on that.

Thank you for the update, it is always worth closing off an earlier question wherever possible. And the answer is the logical one that affirms the common sense maxim, do not pick up your ball before deciding what you are going to do - or you may get stung.

The interesting wrinkle here was that the player mistakenly thought the rule provided a free lift/relief.

 

Could this have been intended? I'm not surprised your respondent didn't go there, it would be beyond his/her remit. It's clear the wrong green interference rule is not intended to produce a penalty, far from it, it states you must take relief (more correctly, you must not play with ball, feet or swing interfering with a wrong putting green) and it also tells you that there is free relief. However, in the specific situation we were discussing, the combination of conditions were such that there is no free relief after you have lifted your ball and, worse, you were now in a 2SP world as a direct consequence of your lack of foresight.

[Halebopp]

The first case of a serious breach of rule 1.2a and a DQ that's come to my knowledge as Sergio Garcia was DQ'd for damaging the greens in Saudi Arabia.

[Sawgrass]

The first case of a serious breach of rule 1.2a and a DQ that's come to my knowledge as Sergio Garcia was DQ'd for damaging the greens in Saudi Arabia.

I'm interested in seeing what happened. But based on past behavior I can imagine . . .

 

But hey, he's just a kid, he'll grow out of it, right?

[Halebopp]

The first case of a serious breach of rule 1.2a and a DQ that's come to my knowledge as Sergio Garcia was DQ'd for damaging the greens in Saudi Arabia.

I'm interested in seeing what happened. But based on past behavior I can imagine . . .

 

But hey, he's just a kid, he'll grow out of it, right?

 

Certainly. :)

 

Sergio Garcia said: “I respect the decision of my disqualification. In frustration, I damaged a couple of greens, for which I apologise for, and I have informed my fellow players it will never happen again.”

Read more at http://www.europeant...7JUlTqcWLkOh.99

[Halebopp]

"It is believed that Garcia damaged five greens during his third circuit, with players in the four groups immediately behind him all complaining to rules officials about the state he’d left them," the paper reported.

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/news/sergio-garcia-disqualified-saudi-event-purposefully-damaging-greens?fbclid=IwAR32ohE6fZzkQDHZsNlFBpXIqQ0Alb6wDvyEbd6fh_GFyMH6rVyQn3vHmrE

[Sawgrass]

"It is believed that Garcia damaged five greens during his third circuit, with players in the four groups immediately behind him all complaining to rules officials about the state he’d left them," the paper reported.

 

https://www.golfchan...yMH6rVyQn3vHmrE

I note that there's no video of his actual vandalism. I suppose that's just as well, the image of him spitting in the hole at the Player's several years ago is burned into my mind, and I suppose I can do without a parallel image of him hacking away at the green in complete disrespect for the course and the players behind him. How appalling.

[QEight]

"It is believed that Garcia damaged five greens during his third circuit, with players in the four groups immediately behind him all complaining to rules officials about the state he’d left them," the paper reported.

 

https://www.golfchan...yMH6rVyQn3vHmrE

I note that there's no video of his actual vandalism. I suppose that's just as well, the image of him spitting in the hole at the Player's several years ago is burned into my mind, and I suppose I can do without a parallel image of him hacking away at the green in complete disrespect for the course and the players behind him. How appalling.

 

If it was any similar than him whacking and flailing in bunker then I think it was bad enough to warrant DQ. I still like him though.

[finleysg]

Attended a 1-day training session on the 2019 rules yesterday. Overall I think the new player's edition is clear and easy to understand. The consistent use of illustrations is great. The definitions, while expanded, are improved, imo. The people responsible did a good job. Combined with the video resources on the web and app, I think learning the rules you will need day-to-day is not at all difficult.

 

Of course there are always going to be the odd edge cases and corner cases because it's golf.

 

I am playing 6 rounds of golf next week (weather permitting) and will have my marked-up player's edition in the bag. It will be interesting to see if I come across any situation not easily resolved.