How much BS are we being fed by the big brands?

[chisag]

What I take issue with is the idea that all companies do these days is regurgitate the same clubs and sell them with marketing spin. Yes, they're marketed with language that's favorable to the company, but these companies have certain degrees of certainty they have to achieve in their data before their legal teams will let them make claims. Drivers have absolutely gotten better in the last few years and there are still opportunities for companies to make improvements, including distance on center strikes (which most assume is not possible).

 

... It really is interesting how so many here can be so ignorant. We could say the same thing about cars. They all still have engines, 4 wheels and get you from point A to point B. A 10 yr old car is just as good as current cars if you are a good driver. All just marketing hype and BS to sell new cars. Of course new clubs are improved and are technically better. Not to sound like a broken record but the only question is how much better and will the improvements make a difference in your game, which is a completely different argument. The guys on tour need their equipment to perform at the highest level and most of them are putting new equipment in their bags. For instance Rickie, Bryce and Lexi all immediately put the new F9 in their bags because it was an improvement over the F8. Of course they get their equipment fir free and that improvement may not be enough for the average forum guy, but it is there and it isn't all hype.

 

... Like you, I am gonna pony up $449 for 7 yards and would do so for 5 yds OR better dispersion OR a better sound/feel/look at address. I thought the Fly Z was the best driver I ever played and did not upgrade to the F6 or the F7 but felt the F8 was enough of an improvement to make the switch. But I think the main thing missed by all those in the "new clubs are BS" is most non forum members pay little attention to any club marketing until it is time to buy a new club. And then OEM's have to get their attention and that is were the marketing is not only helpful but absolutely necessary. The "BS" is not for the 14 index WRX MB player (with a bad short game of course) that plays a SLDR and doesn't think the M2 or any new irons offers any appreciable improvements because you know, it's all just hype and BS. Yes, a lot of marketing is window dressing, buzz words and small print claims, because that is the definition of marketing. As always it is up to the consumer to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Eh. It's mostly BS. A touch of innovation sprinkled About.

 

The reason that the opinions differ on this is that what fits you may not fit me. So with choices we find something that's better , FOR OURSELVES.... but that doesn't really mean innovation or better across the board. Fact of the matter is. If you hit it on the middle some clubs actually take adjustment in swing and mindset to play. If your brain doesn't think " straight ". Some of these new irons will cause you to aim left edge of the green and hit it there. Time and time again , then you go dead at the Pin and miss a little then it leaks right and you're pissed. No trust there. Delicate balance. What helps me may hurt you and so on.

 

 

... You are talking about something completely different than all marketing from OEM is BS. I don't think anyone, even Marketing Directors I have talked to at the PGA Show, thinks every new club is better for any given individuals game than the club(s) they are currently playing. What many of us are saying is that any new product is technically superior to the previous model. If we read the fine print, sometimes that increase is marginal at best and even then may be skewed to a specific target. And as stated earlier, any technical advancement may or may not apply to an individual that may play worse with the new offering and even then, the advancement may be so small as to be statistically insignificant. But to think an OEM spends the money on R&D and Marketing to produce a club that is technically equivalent or inferior to their previous product falls in the tin hat category.

 

... What I find so amazing is how many people on a golf equipment forum, think all marketing is dishonest and BS. Why even be a member? And as a + index, I most assuredly cannot shoot the same scores with my MacGregor M85 and some old Wilson Staff FG17's as I can with my F8 and P790's. While I would shoot under 80 and after a few rounds probably even closer to 70, I would not be shooting par or under.

[mahonie]

I looked into this a while ago and found that Callaway spent something like $8m on R&D in one financial reporting period but spent in the region of $80m on their marketing budget in the same period. If there were more technical innovations to be had, I’m sure the R&D budget would be significantly higher.

 

I would argue that the only technical innovations we’re seeing now only relate to distance and are marginal at best. The BS claims have pretty much died out after TaylorMade’s claims of 17 yards longer for the Rocketballz fairway wood were challenged in court and were found to be highly misleading.

[cp.vanvuuren]

With regards to the OP, I would love to see Trackman/GC2 numbers on the 3D printed driver to see things like clubhead speed, ball speed, spin, launch etc.

 

I'll be sure to post them when I get them. I'm busy printing a new head which I plan to attach to a proper shaft.

 

As a matter of interest, when I first designed and printed the initial model that ended up in my wife's bag, the first few attempts ended up hooking like crazy. Once I got the lie and face angle right, I tested it on a Full Swing Golf simulator which gives ball speed, carry distance but not club data. So I can't say for sure what the clubhead speed was but ball speed was around 171mph and launch around 11deg with a carry of 290y. My stats with my Titleist is about 177mph, 13 deg and 300y. (It's at altitude - 4,400ft).

 

I'm very curious to see spin rates, but obviously the shaft I put in will be a huge factor. Since I glue it in there, I'll pretty much have to go with the one I choose. Any suggestions on a shaft I could try? The new head I'm printing is around 270g which leaves 60g to get it to the same weight as the Titleist at 330g total.

 

Once I have it all put together I'll go hit it on a launch monitor and share the stats.

[bobcat]

Yes, the Brands just keep feeding it, but it's the consumer who decides whether or not to eat it!... :stop:

YOU HAVE TO KNOW WHEN TO PUSH THE B.S. BUTTON!

[bladehunter]

What I take issue with is the idea that all companies do these days is regurgitate the same clubs and sell them with marketing spin. Yes, they're marketed with language that's favorable to the company, but these companies have certain degrees of certainty they have to achieve in their data before their legal teams will let them make claims. Drivers have absolutely gotten better in the last few years and there are still opportunities for companies to make improvements, including distance on center strikes (which most assume is not possible).

 

... It really is interesting how so many here can be so ignorant. We could say the same thing about cars. They all still have engines, 4 wheels and get you from point A to point B. A 10 yr old car is just as good as current cars if you are a good driver. All just marketing hype and BS to sell new cars. Of course new clubs are improved and are technically better. Not to sound like a broken record but the only question is how much better and will the improvements make a difference in your game, which is a completely different argument. The guys on tour need their equipment to perform at the highest level and most of them are putting new equipment in their bags. For instance Rickie, Bryce and Lexi all immediately put the new F9 in their bags because it was an improvement over the F8. Of course they get their equipment fir free and that improvement may not be enough for the average forum guy, but it is there and it isn't all hype.

 

... Like you, I am gonna pony up $449 for 7 yards and would do so for 5 yds OR better dispersion OR a better sound/feel/look at address. I thought the Fly Z was the best driver I ever played and did not upgrade to the F6 or the F7 but felt the F8 was enough of an improvement to make the switch. But I think the main thing missed by all those in the "new clubs are BS" is most non forum members pay little attention to any club marketing until it is time to buy a new club. And then OEM's have to get their attention and that is were the marketing is not only helpful but absolutely necessary. The "BS" is not for the 14 index WRX MB player (with a bad short game of course) that plays a SLDR and doesn't think the M2 or any new irons offers any appreciable improvements because you know, it's all just hype and BS. Yes, a lot of marketing is window dressing, buzz words and small print claims, because that is the definition of marketing. As always it is up to the consumer to separate the wheat from the chaff.

 

Eh. It's mostly BS. A touch of innovation sprinkled About.

 

The reason that the opinions differ on this is that what fits you may not fit me. So with choices we find something that's better , FOR OURSELVES.... but that doesn't really mean innovation or better across the board. Fact of the matter is. If you hit it on the middle some clubs actually take adjustment in swing and mindset to play. If your brain doesn't think " straight ". Some of these new irons will cause you to aim left edge of the green and hit it there. Time and time again , then you go dead at the Pin and miss a little then it leaks right and you're pissed. No trust there. Delicate balance. What helps me may hurt you and so on.

 

 

... You are talking about something completely different than all marketing from OEM is BS. I don't think anyone, even Marketing Directors I have talked to at the PGA Show, thinks every new club is better for any given individuals game than the club(s) they are currently playing. What many of us are saying is that any new product is technically superior to the previous model. If we read the fine print, sometimes that increase is marginal at best and even then may be skewed to a specific target. And as stated earlier, any technical advancement may or may not apply to an individual that may play worse with the new offering and even then, the advancement may be so small as to be statistically insignificant. But to think an OEM spends the money on R&D and Marketing to produce a club that is technically equivalent or inferior to their previous product falls in the tin hat category.

 

... What I find so amazing is how many people on a golf equipment forum, think all marketing is dishonest and BS. Why even be a member? And as a + index, I most assuredly cannot shoot the same scores with my MacGregor M85 and some old Wilson Staff FG17's as I can with my F8 and P790's. While I would shoot under 80 and after a few rounds probably even closer to 70, I would not be shooting par or under.

 

Each new model is certainly not better than the last. Different ? Maybe. Better ? Not even most of them.

Examples off the top of my head -

Sm5 vokey was not greater than Sm4

716 ap2 is considered a turd compared to 714 ap2

Most prefer the 16 m2 to the 17m2. And on and on.

 

Different ? Sure. Bettter ? Nope

 

 

Don’t take it as a persona attack. It’s not. And I never meant it’s all BS. In fact I think I said that. Of course some new things are better. But it’s less than half total. Most are just rebadged or reworked same sames.

 

And I wouldn’t sell myself short. You’d probably score the same with the old sticks. Confidence is more difference in scoring than any club could ever be

 

Buying into your idea is exactly saying that we can buy scores. Or buy game. I’m sorry to tell you it cannot be done. I’d be first in line if the hump could be jumped with a purchase.

[fairways4life]

I work in marketing, and specifically cars. Every time the new model years come out, I have to think of some ways to try to convince consumers that the 2019 model is definitely way better than the 2018 model. In some cases, it absolutely is. But in many cases, the difference between the two is having a 13-way adjustable seat instead of a 12-way adjustable seat, getting 0.2 more inches of rear cargo space and one additional color option. And the 2019 model will cost $5,000 more than a still-brand-new 2018.

[coachemup]

You can buy more yardage and you can buy tigher dispersion, but you can't buy a short game and if you can't read greens then can't make putts.

 

Let them market their clubs how they want to and you can buy into the hype or not

 

Marketing and New Clubs will not lower your handicap! :)

[MtlJeff]

I work in marketing, and specifically cars. Every time the new model years come out, I have to think of some ways to try to convince consumers that the 2019 model is definitely way better than the 2018 model. In some cases, it absolutely is. But in many cases, the difference between the two is having a 13-way adjustable seat instead of a 12-way adjustable seat, getting 0.2 more inches of rear cargo space and one additional color option. And the 2019 model will cost $5,000 more than a still-brand-new 2018.

 

I feel 100% the same way about golf clubs. I genuinely think stuff that is "better" still comes out, there are still innovations to be made.....but most years it's a very minor thing that won't affect scores in a meaningful way, and OEM's have to find a catchy phrase to describe it with.

 

We complain about this, but we would complain even more if Callaway just said "you know what, we can't improve on the Epic, so we're just going to offer it as is for the next 5 years without any new heads"

 

We force them to do it

[GSDriver]

Once in a while, there's a tech advancement that really works, i.e. Epic driver. I'm sure OEMs in robot testing can claim this or that (TM 17 yards seemed to be a stretch), but for most golfers, likely unable to tell the difference.

 

Naturally, we all want to believe the marketing shtick, so even if psychological, we buy it.

[chisag]

Each new model is certainly not better than the last. Different ? Maybe. Better ? Not even most of them.

Examples off the top of my head -

Sm5 vokey was not greater than Sm4

716 ap2 is considered a turd compared to 714 ap2

Most prefer the 16 m2 to the 17m2. And on and on.

 

Different ? Sure. Bettter ? Nope

 

 

Don't take it as a persona attack. It's not. And I never meant it's all BS. In fact I think I said that. Of course some new things are better. But it's less than half total. Most are just rebadged or reworked same sames.

 

And I wouldn't sell myself short. You'd probably score the same with the old sticks. Confidence is more difference in scoring than any club could ever be

 

Buying into your idea is exactly saying that we can buy scores. Or buy game. I'm sorry to tell you it cannot be done. I'd be first in line if the hump could be jumped with a purchase.

 

... You are talking about personal preference. For instance many thought the 2016 M3 sounded better and felt better as well as the sole looking better but I have no doubt in laboratory testing, the 2017 outperformed the 2016. But again, by how much and does it make any difference to you? Most of the time the answer is not enough improvement and no, it wont make any difference for you.

 

... Going to the PGA Show every year and hitting all the new equipment and talking to Marketing VP's as well as engineers, it is usually obvious when they have a new product they are excited about and when they have a new product that is just a new product. Showing me lower spin and higher MOI combine for noticeable improvements as opposed to showing me truncated enthusiasm with a company line about "a little less spin and slightly improved aerodynamics" is always pretty telling. I have never disputed most new products are only marginally better than what they replaced and OEM's are in the business of selling clubs, but I have found most engineers and marketing people are more interested in their product than sales. It is the Sales department that drive the new club train. I spoke with the engineers of the 2nd generation Cleveland Hi Bore driver and they reluctantly told me they were releasing this driver before it was ready. Hitting balls high? or low? on the face (I forget which) produced a massive increase in spin and they were close to fixing the issue BUT Sales wanted to release it NOW and the engineers were over ruled. So while it did provide a definite increase in performance when hit reasonably close to center, it was a very bad driver on mishits. This guys were pi$$ed and did not mind throwing Sales under the bus. By the time they released the 3rd Hi Bore version that was very good, most good will had been long used up over excessive spin issues and it failed to sell. Had the engineers been able to skip a year and bring to out hen it as ready, it would probably still be a popular driver today.

 

... And I have never believed or ever said you can buy scores, unless you were playing poorly fit equipment and lucked into the right clubs or paid to be fit by a professional. Of course lowering or increasing your spin off the tee with the proper trajectory can a positive effect. Decreasing your dispersion with different irons that better fit your swing can can have an effect on your score. Yet for the majority of people playing this game, as long as you are reasonably fit for the clubs you play, it is almost always more about the player than the equipment. My P790's are the first club in a long time that lowered my scores and I usually play new clubs every year. I do it for fun, not because I think any new equipment will make a difference in my scores. It's just that we are members on an equipment forum where it can be interesting to talk about the new stuff and I just get so tired of forum members trashing every new product as well as most every OEM for bringing them out. As fairways4life just intimated, new products can be way better OR they come up with ways to promote minimal improvements at maximum profits. It is up to the buyer to tell the difference.

[TKS]

Within the rules that govern the clubs dimensions and performance, the clubhead is done, outside of a little more forgiveness as you completely miss the sweet spot.

Everything else is going to be about head weight, sound, shaft weight/length, and of course getting fit to the flight.

Changing shapes, sounds, and colors /graphics will be fun for the marketing guys but from a technical standpoint, speed foam, jailbreak, insect technology, and turbulators are passing terms that mean nothing outside of a well-engineered face performing up to COR/CT limits. However, I want some TAILFINS on my next driver.!

[jholz]

This thread is hilarious! It's tough to fall on one side or the other in this argument. The 3D printed driver is awesome, and does serve to symbolize a great deal of truth about the equipment market.

 

That being said, we all know that we aren't playing that thing.

 

The only lingering question is...what kind of numbers do you think that 3D printed driver would produce with a little "Jailbreak" technology and perhaps a Tensei Orange 70 TX?

 

The putters I have been playing for the last 20 yrs were designed and built by me using hand tools in my workshop. No CAD, no engineering degree. Perfectly face balanced with extensive heel/toe weighting. Loft and lie are perfectly matched to my specifications. I have put them up against every putter on the market and they always stay with them while looking a heck of a lot better!

 

So why can't a 3D printed driver head made from a resilient material. Designed by a professional engineer using CAD software perform just as well as anything else?

 

BT

 

Yeah, I have no doubt your putters work just fine. That being said, if you aren't testing them extensively against the current OEM lineup, you are leaving yards on the table.

 

After all, who doesn't want to hit their putter farther?

[cardoustie]

News flash. Companies release new products and some people like spending money on new stuff regardless of product enhancements, this is across pretty much every category

 

You can't take it with you, this is why there is so much purchasing with disposable income. Nobody needs 3 houses, or 4 cars (or 14) or 10 (or 50) watches but hey stuff happens

[bobcat]

News flash. Companies release new products and some people like spending money on new stuff regardless of product enhancements, this is across pretty much every category

 

You can't take it with you, this is why there is so much purchasing with disposable income. Nobody needs 3 houses, or 4 cars (or 14) or 10 (or 50) watches but hey stuff happens

 

Sadly, you're right, and this is what ultimately happens!... :taunt:

 

So, will you become the next Fool?.. :jester:

Or will you decide to push the B.S. Button and pass?...

[TexasCarlos]

there are very smart people who can still spend their money on what they please. No one cares if you love your old driver and pinch every penny in search of some Warren Buffett-esque wealth. Ppl WILL buy stuff, and its OK. God forbid companies release clubs, and try too fool you lol. OEM's arent taking a personal attack on you and your 5 year old driver, you dont HAVE TO BUY anything. On GolfWRX of all places should people laud at least attempts at improvement to equipment among all the love for the classics.

[uwhockey14]

An entire truck load but its nothing new.... they wouldn't keep doing it if people didn't believe it.... then again i've never been the latest and greatest type of player.... If you switch drivers every 3-4 years and irons every 5-7 or even longer depending on your handicap, I personally don't think you are giving anything up to someone who buys the latest and greatest.

[fairways4life]

In regards to releasing new stuff every year, a large part of it is simply just remaining relevant. If a company did not release any new clubs in 2019, then nobody would be talking about that company. No review articles or videos produced and distributed. No forum chatter. No prime real estate in golf stores. That company would be brandished to the backseat because everyone would be talking about the companies that DID release new stuff.

 

So even if they haven't made any leaps and bounds from the previous model in terms of performance, they still need to put something out there just to remain in the conversation and stay relevant. It's about brand recognition. If you own Company X, you don't want someone saying "Hey, remember company X?"

[bladehunter]

Each new model is certainly not better than the last. Different ? Maybe. Better ? Not even most of them.

Examples off the top of my head -

Sm5 vokey was not greater than Sm4

716 ap2 is considered a turd compared to 714 ap2

Most prefer the 16 m2 to the 17m2. And on and on.

 

Different ? Sure. Bettter ? Nope

 

 

Don't take it as a persona attack. It's not. And I never meant it's all BS. In fact I think I said that. Of course some new things are better. But it's less than half total. Most are just rebadged or reworked same sames.

 

And I wouldn't sell myself short. You'd probably score the same with the old sticks. Confidence is more difference in scoring than any club could ever be

 

Buying into your idea is exactly saying that we can buy scores. Or buy game. I'm sorry to tell you it cannot be done. I'd be first in line if the hump could be jumped with a purchase.

 

... You are talking about personal preference. For instance many thought the 2016 M3 sounded better and felt better as well as the sole looking better but I have no doubt in laboratory testing, the 2017 outperformed the 2016. But again, by how much and does it make any difference to you? Most of the time the answer is not enough improvement and no, it wont make any difference for you.

 

... Going to the PGA Show every year and hitting all the new equipment and talking to Marketing VP's as well as engineers, it is usually obvious when they have a new product they are excited about and when they have a new product that is just a new product. Showing me lower spin and higher MOI combine for noticeable improvements as opposed to showing me truncated enthusiasm with a company line about "a little less spin and slightly improved aerodynamics" is always pretty telling. I have never disputed most new products are only marginally better than what they replaced and OEM's are in the business of selling clubs, but I have found most engineers and marketing people are more interested in their product than sales. It is the Sales department that drive the new club train. I spoke with the engineers of the 2nd generation Cleveland Hi Bore driver and they reluctantly told me they were releasing this driver before it was ready. Hitting balls high? or low? on the face (I forget which) produced a massive increase in spin and they were close to fixing the issue BUT Sales wanted to release it NOW and the engineers were over ruled. So while it did provide a definite increase in performance when hit reasonably close to center, it was a very bad driver on mishits. This guys were pi$$ed and did not mind throwing Sales under the bus. By the time they released the 3rd Hi Bore version that was very good, most good will had been long used up over excessive spin issues and it failed to sell. Had the engineers been able to skip a year and bring to out hen it as ready, it would probably still be a popular driver today.

 

... And I have never believed or ever said you can buy scores, unless you were playing poorly fit equipment and lucked into the right clubs or paid to be fit by a professional. Of course lowering or increasing your spin off the tee with the proper trajectory can a positive effect. Decreasing your dispersion with different irons that better fit your swing can can have an effect on your score. Yet for the majority of people playing this game, as long as you are reasonably fit for the clubs you play, it is almost always more about the player than the equipment. My P790's are the first club in a long time that lowered my scores and I usually play new clubs every year. I do it for fun, not because I think any new equipment will make a difference in my scores. It's just that we are members on an equipment forum where it can be interesting to talk about the new stuff and I just get so tired of forum members trashing every new product as well as most every OEM for bringing them out. As fairways4life just intimated, new products can be way better OR they come up with ways to promote minimal improvements at maximum profits. It is up to the buyer to tell the difference.

 

I guess I just don’t understand. If each new club IS better than the last , in theory you could buy scores. What am I missing ?

 

 

And dude. I’m not preaching at you. I’m one of the biggest club hoes here. I just don’t think you realize you’re saying that the next Taylor made ( insert any oem here ) iron release is going to make the last one irrelevant. That’s just not true. It’s pretty rare that a new club comes out and is actually measurably bettter than the last. All I was saying to that point was. If you stick to that opinion you have to also agree that you can buy the latest club and therefore lower your scores over last years club. Otherwise what is the measure of “ better “. ?

[chisag]

... If my F8 is 1.1yds longer than my Fly Z and the dispersion is 2.7% improved and mishits only lose 2.1 yds in direction and distance ALL of those are better. But NONE of those will make any difference in my scoring because any drive I hit can be 1.1 yds longer or shorter and of course we hit drives all the time that are + or - 10 yds and some days even greater than that. I can play and hit every fairway one day and the very next day only hit 5 of them so 1.1 yds means little to nothing with my score.

 

... The thing I find frustrating with claims like "if every club improved over the last club we would be hitting it 400 yds and in every fairway". First off, just because a club is 1.1 yds longer with an iron byron, doesn't mean it is 1.1 yds longer for any individual player. And even if it were true for every golfer 1.1 times 5 years is only 5.5 and for most that play the game, 5.5 yds over 5 years will not change their scores. Of course some years there is no additional yardage, just higher moi, or slightly better performance on mishits or a better sound/feel/look. What I don't understand is why anyone joins a Golf Equipment forum just to trash golf equipment?

[aknow]

Yesterday I played a round with some friends and my wife joined us. She is not a regular golfer but used to play field hockey at college level. Her swing is flat an short with excessive hand action. Naturally she hits a power draw and because of this I designed a custom club specifically for her. It's a driver with 16 deg loft and a shortened shaft (41 inch). I 3D printed the head from ABS and stuck a decent Uniflex shaft in there.

 

The whole day she just looked so comfortable hitting this club, so on the 18th I asked her if I can try it out.

 

My swing was in the groove the whole day with my driver. I first hit my own driver and proceeded to hit my longest drive for the year on that hole by quite some distance. I then tried her driver and crushed it as well. I hit both clubs as good as I possibly can.

 

The end result... My $500 Titleist 915 driver ended 7 yards further down the fairway than a $8 printed driver with a $40 shaft. Taking the shaft length into account, the performance is pretty much on par. How is that even possible? Plus, the printed driver is 40g lighter and much easier to control. Are we being suckered into spending thousands of $'s on imaginative gains??

 

Interesting result! But, I wouldn't form conclusions from a single shot. Hit 50 shots w/ each club and see what the results are. You may have made perfect contact with your wife's club off the tee. Or, you might be an Expert Clubmaker.

[gbartko]

Just remember that every club you play was once the latest and greatest and advertised as such by the manufacturer. So it can’t be BS all the time. So every time something new is touted it will be remarkably better for someone out there.

 

Also, 99% of golfers don’t buy consecutive iterations of the same product thus the latest and greatest could be significantly better than the same thing 5 releases earlier.

[Fade]

Nice work OP. Thanks for the thread!

[ThinkingPlus]

With regards to the OP, I would love to see Trackman/GC2 numbers on the 3D printed driver to see things like clubhead speed, ball speed, spin, launch etc.

 

I'll be sure to post them when I get them. I'm busy printing a new head which I plan to attach to a proper shaft.

 

As a matter of interest, when I first designed and printed the initial model that ended up in my wife's bag, the first few attempts ended up hooking like crazy. Once I got the lie and face angle right, I tested it on a Full Swing Golf simulator which gives ball speed, carry distance but not club data. So I can't say for sure what the clubhead speed was but ball speed was around 171mph and launch around 11deg with a carry of 290y. My stats with my Titleist is about 177mph, 13 deg and 300y. (It's at altitude - 4,400ft).

 

I'm very curious to see spin rates, but obviously the shaft I put in will be a huge factor. Since I glue it in there, I'll pretty much have to go with the one I choose. Any suggestions on a shaft I could try? The new head I'm printing is around 270g which leaves 60g to get it to the same weight as the Titleist at 330g total.

 

Once I have it all put together I'll go hit it on a launch monitor and share the stats.

You don't really mean 270 grams do you? That's about 65 grams heavier than most driver heads. If you add a shaft (65 grams) and a grip (50 grams) you will be at 385 grams which will be the heaviest driver on the planet.

[bladehunter]

... If my F8 is 1.1yds longer than my Fly Z and the dispersion is 2.7% improved and mishits only lose 2.1 yds in direction and distance ALL of those are better. But NONE of those will make any difference in my scoring because any drive I hit can be 1.1 yds longer or shorter and of course we hit drives all the time that are + or - 10 yds and some days even greater than that. I can play and hit every fairway one day and the very next day only hit 5 of them so 1.1 yds means little to nothing with my score.

 

... The thing I find frustrating with claims like "if every club improved over the last club we would be hitting it 400 yds and in every fairway". First off, just because a club is 1.1 yds longer with an iron byron, doesn't mean it is 1.1 yds longer for any individual player. And even if it were true for every golfer 1.1 times 5 years is only 5.5 and for most that play the game, 5.5 yds over 5 years will not change their scores. Of course some years there is no additional yardage, just higher moi, or slightly better performance on mishits or a better sound/feel/look. What I don't understand is why anyone joins a Golf Equipment forum just to trash golf equipment?

 

Sorry man. I know You’re getting Irrirated , I just disagree I guess. If it doesn’t effect score it isn’t better. And 1 yards longer isn’t better. It’s just different. It’s exactly same as saying “ it flies the same but it sounds better “. Cool. I’m all for playing what feels best to you. But 1 yards is not worth $500 as it’s not a measurable improvement.

 

Too many tour players playing older drivers and older irons to make the “ new model is best “ claim.

 

To answer your question about why ? If course nobody joined to bash. But. When the realization hits that you’ve tried it all and could shoot the same score with pretty much any of it you feel the need to hit the BS button.

 

Now some are correct. It’s s necessary evil and we don’t have to buy into it. It’s driven by us. But. I think that gives me the right to call it as I see it too. I’m vested in the equipment business. I’ve paid my dues in other words. So I’ll call it as I see it good or bad. New stuff is cool. But for example. The 16 m2 to 17 m2 to 18 m4. Zero distance gains. Zero real looks or feel change. And twist face is an old idea that truly isn’t a measurable benefit. But I understand they needed a placeholder while the new tech was created ( hopefully ) and I didn’t buy any m3-4 drivers because I saw that. Seems to run about every 4-5 years something actually changes.

[chisag]

... Everything being equal, if it is 1 yd longer it is better. 286 is better than 285. That is the definition of the word:

 

: more advantageous or effective

: improved in accuracy or performance

 

... I don't think anybody said 1yd is worth $500. Some would say 5yds is worth $500 while others would not. You seem to be talking about "better for your game" as opposed to technically better. This discussion was never about better for your game as that can be and is quite subjective for most of us. I will most definitely play a technically inferior driver that sounds and feels good over a tin can aluminum bat sounding driver that feels terrible but is 5 yds longer. The topic is are OEMs claims about being better BS, and they are not. Better for your game is a different topic and one we probably agree on.

[bladehunter]

Lol. Come on man. Really ? As dr Phil says. Would you rather be right or be happy ???? Lol.

 

Uncle. By the time I’m 50 I’ll have 10 more yards piled up and ready to dominate the champions tour !!

[chisag]

... LOL, I am 65 and will take all the extra yards I can get because I won't be getting any longer, just hopefully smarter. And fwiw, I have never advocated for players to get new equipment every year or every other year or every 5 years or ever really. I just get sick of people calling BS on OEMs for just doing what they are supposed to do, promote their products. I like to think consumers are smart enough to know the difference between slot technology on the sole when it was introduced and turbulators/aero trips that make the club head move faster.

[getgolfed]

Well all of the previous claims and promises were bogus, but the 2019 equipment will provide massive gains in a tightly regulated market!

[bladehunter]

Well all of the previous claims and promises were bogus, but the 2019 equipment will provide massive gains in a tightly regulated market!

 

Exactly. This person gets it ! ^

[cp.vanvuuren]

With regards to the OP, I would love to see Trackman/GC2 numbers on the 3D printed driver to see things like clubhead speed, ball speed, spin, launch etc.

 

I'll be sure to post them when I get them. I'm busy printing a new head which I plan to attach to a proper shaft.

 

As a matter of interest, when I first designed and printed the initial model that ended up in my wife's bag, the first few attempts ended up hooking like crazy. Once I got the lie and face angle right, I tested it on a Full Swing Golf simulator which gives ball speed, carry distance but not club data. So I can't say for sure what the clubhead speed was but ball speed was around 171mph and launch around 11deg with a carry of 290y. My stats with my Titleist is about 177mph, 13 deg and 300y. (It's at altitude - 4,400ft).

 

I'm very curious to see spin rates, but obviously the shaft I put in will be a huge factor. Since I glue it in there, I'll pretty much have to go with the one I choose. Any suggestions on a shaft I could try? The new head I'm printing is around 270g which leaves 60g to get it to the same weight as the Titleist at 330g total.

 

Once I have it all put together I'll go hit it on a launch monitor and share the stats.

You don't really mean 270 grams do you? That's about 65 grams heavier than most driver heads. If you add a shaft (65 grams) and a grip (50 grams) you will be at 385 grams which will be the heaviest driver on the planet.

 

Sorry, I was trying to insinuate that I'm looking for a 60g tour grade, low spin shaft option. The 270g includes 53g for my grip and few layers of tape.

 

Any recommendations?