Interesting development - $3000 pay to caddy from a $1.3 million winners check? (MOD EDIT - NO POLIT

[Skhacker]

This is a great thread. I've got my $3K worth already!

[wobgon]

Matt Kuchar might have thought he was being very smart but this has turned around and bit him on the a** . It is very bad publicity for him and something that will stick for a while if not forever .

You can be cheap but you cannot be down right mean .

Interesting take.....What exactly was the amount he paid the caddie? Since you obviously can't answer this question, I hope your comments don't come back to bite you in the a**.

[c7015]

I don't whats fair but I know one thing, I don't want you guys to decide what to pay my staff.

 

What does the caddy think? Why are we putting words in his mouth, if he wants more money he might be more vocal. If he just notched a career milestone and thinks he can parlay that into future opportunity he should carry on. It used to be called paying your dues, I don't know if they have a word for it today.

 

Re Kutch being cheap ...wasn't he going to be an accountant/broker if not for the tour, of course he is cheap ...not that you can even trust a guy who acts that nice anyway

[bscinstnct]

Hypothetical Question

 

Lets say you work on a small sales team. Yearly bonus is a percentage of your total haul for the year. One guy puts in almost a full year but due to a family emergency has to relocate and leaves the company before bonuses are paid out. New guy quickly joins, same compensation plan, right before the bonus is typically dispersed. This is a sales job so the commission is a huge part of the total comp.

 

Does new guy get a full bonus or some prorated amount?

 

Even Gillis isn't calling for 10%. People are indeed calling for a "prorated amount", not the "full bonus".

 

Pretty much everyone has said the Mexican caddie doesn't deserve what Kuchar's normal, full time caddie would receive.

 

But, more than ~$5,000 seems appropriate. $5,000 is only around .38% of the gross winnings. Not even 1%.

 

Most people think something like $30,000-$50,000 would be appropriate, which would be 3-4%. Still way below the 10% his normal caddie may receive in this case.

 

A caddy is a full time job, these guys work year round, Toucan Sam carried a bag for 4 days. 3-4% much much more than an equivalent pro-rated amount

 

Those 4 days resulted in

 

Kuchs first win in 4 years.

 

This caddie was selected and recommended to Moocher by the tournament director.

 

Mooch won 1.2MM and praised his knowledge of the course.

 

What do you think is fair on 1.2MM ?

 

 

Wait, did I spell kooch wrong?

 

; )

4 days is 4 days.

 

Kuch just won again

 

So perhaps his hard work, Is finally coming to fruition

 

Perhaps kuch is just a nice guy and making for good PR praising the local

 

Does spacing things this way make my posts more dramatic of insightful?

 

Kind of actually ; )

[Caddykev]

Gillis is now claiming to have been in direct contact with El Tucan, and that he was paid 5,000 on his twitter page like the other guy posted today.

[jj9000]

Gillis is now claiming to have been in direct contact with El Tucan, and that he was paid 5,000 on his twitter page like the other guy posted today.

 

I was just in contact with Gillis.

 

He said none of this is true...and everything has been blown out of proportion. Although generally speaking...he does believe caddies should be paid more.

[Hawkeye77]

Mr. Plaid Shorts now saying that the caddie wasn't even complaining until he, Mr. Plaid Shorts, explained to the caddie in fluent Spanish what he should have received. LOL, just gets dumber.

[jmck]

If I was a fill in caddie and my guy paid me $5k on $1.3 million I’d be PISSED.

 

I mean come on! That’s gone in like 10 minutes on the BST!

[bscinstnct]

Gillis is now claiming to have been in direct contact with El Tucan, and that he was paid 5,000 on his twitter page like the other guy posted today.

 

This makes the PGA Tour look like ****heads.

 

Can somebody tell Kooch to smarten up and do the right thing here?

 

Maybe Tiger should...

 

Wait, nevermind ; )

[lowheel]

Matt Kuchar might have thought he was being very smart but this has turned around and bit him on the a** . It is very bad publicity for him and something that will stick for a while if not forever .

You can be cheap but you cannot be down right mean .

 

Hes made 47 million playing pro golf.think about that for a second. He doesnt lose a wink of sleep over any of this. Social media mobs dont have any power over you or your actions unless you give it to them.

[Jagpilotohio]

Gillis is now claiming to have been in direct contact with El Tucan, and that he was paid 5,000 on his twitter page like the other guy posted today.

 

I was just in contact with Gillis.

 

He said none of this is true...and everything has been blown out of proportion. Although generally speaking...he does believe caddies should be paid more.

 

Oh yeah?..... Well I was just in contact with Elvis and he said all of you are nuts for caring so much about this ridiculousness.

 

....and then he told me to make him a peanut butter and banana sandwich and shut up.

[lowheel]

Mr. Plaid Shorts now saying that the caddie wasn't even complaining until he, Mr. Plaid Shorts, explained to the caddie in fluent Spanish what he should have received. LOL, just gets dumber.

 

Hey you peasant, you're too stupid to know what you did.Ill fix it for you...

 

"the soft bigotry of low expectations"

[lowheel]

If I was a fill in caddie and my guy paid me $5k on $1.3 million I’d be PISSED.

 

I mean come on! That’s gone in like 10 minutes on the BST!

 

What if he paid you 3k and he missed the cut? why would you be pissed if thats the # you agreed to on wednesday?

[Hawkeye77]

Mr. Plaid Shorts now saying that the caddie wasn't even complaining until he, Mr. Plaid Shorts, explained to the caddie in fluent Spanish what he should have received. LOL, just gets dumber.

 

Hey you peasant, you're too stupid to know what you did.Ill fix it for you...

 

"the soft bigotry of low expectations"

 

or the low spark of high heeled boys.

[lowheel]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

[lowheel]

Mr. Plaid Shorts now saying that the caddie wasn't even complaining until he, Mr. Plaid Shorts, explained to the caddie in fluent Spanish what he should have received. LOL, just gets dumber.

 

Hey you peasant, you're too stupid to know what you did.Ill fix it for you...

 

"the soft bigotry of low expectations"

 

or the low spark of high heeled boys.

 

[bscinstnct]

As Marie Kuchinette said,

 

"Qu'ils mangent de la huevos rancheros"

 

 

 

 

[lowheel]

As Marie Kuchinette said,

 

"Qu'ils mangent de la huevos rancheros"

 

[Golfjack]

Seems like the concerned parties were taken care of, but everyone else is up in arms! Seriously sometimes you get screwed when you don't create a good contract. Caddies get paid a lot of the share because they spend a lot of time doing other things and not winning! All this caddie (and from all accounts he did a great job) did was just this 4 day event.

 

You can be sure the tournament director will talk to the pro about the pay next time if he was a standup guy. I'm surprised this wasn't taken into consideration when he recommended it. Since it's such a low probability. I think it's probably standard for temporary caddies to get a fixed amount, and anything extra is gravy.

[Malvern]

Matt Kuchar might have thought he was being very smart but this has turned around and bit him on the a** . It is very bad publicity for him and something that will stick for a while if not forever .

You can be cheap but you cannot be down right mean .

 

Hes made 47 million playing pro golf.think about that for a second. He doesnt lose a wink of sleep over any of this. Social media mobs dont have any power over you or your actions unless you give it to them.

 

Maybe, they all go on about "their brand" and in this case the guy has spent his career working the happy go lucky nice guy routine (like Phil it may be all natural). Does it hurt his earning power in the future, it may be neutral but its not a positive.

[Malvern]

Matt Kuchar might have thought he was being very smart but this has turned around and bit him on the a** . It is very bad publicity for him and something that will stick for a while if not forever .

You can be cheap but you cannot be down right mean .

 

Hes made 47 million playing pro golf.think about that for a second. He doesnt lose a wink of sleep over any of this. Social media mobs dont have any power over you or your actions unless you give it to them.

 

Maybe, they all go on about "their brand" and in this case the guy has spent his career working the happy go lucky nice guy routine (like Phil it may be all natural). Does it hurt his earning power in the future, it may be neutral but its not a positive.

 

Maybe they don't.

 

Funny how (3) words can destroy an entire theory.

 

The maybe implies yes or no

[Krt22]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

[bscinstnct]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

 

Looks like the caddie makes about what the average 1st worlder does ; )

 

"Ortiz, called “El Tucan” by Kuchar and most everybody else, is a full-time caddie at the Mayakoba Resort, averaging about six loops a week and $200 a day."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.golf.com/tour-and-news/2018/11/13/matt-kuchar-mayakoba-caddie-18-things-to-know-el-tucan/amp/

 

Plays to an 8 handicap as well.

 

Sounds like the average wrxer. Especially if he hits a 270 yd 2i ; )

[MtlJeff]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

 

BUT HE HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO CHANGE THIS MANS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Golfjack]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

 

Looks like the caddie makes about what the average 1st worlder does ; )

 

"Ortiz, called "El Tucan" by Kuchar and most everybody else, is a full-time caddie at the Mayakoba Resort, averaging about six loops a week and $200 a day."

 

https://www.google.c...w-el-tucan/amp/

That's a healthy amount for a caddie it would seem. The site wouldn't load. Is that including tip?

[straightshot7]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

And the other side doubling down with useless, irrelevant "logic" like "$5,000 is a lot for anyone" and "what if Kuchar had missed the cut?".

[Golfjack]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

 

BUT HE HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO CHANGE THIS MANS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Well I guess Kuch's marketing team can take that moniker off the slate. Let's call him Kooch, the man who changes other men's lives. Darnit. Scratch that. He only mildly improved it.

[straightshot7]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

 

BUT HE HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO CHANGE THIS MANS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Instead of taking it to the extremes, could it just be that Matt Kuchar is cheap?

 

He didn't have a legal obligation or a moral obligation to do anything.

 

But if you WIN [big] to the tune of $1,296,000 (which happens very rarely even for Matt Kuchar), only giving $5,000 to your caddy is cheap. It's a low low tip.

 

I haven't seen anyone explain how it isn't. It's like if you win $10,000 at a blackjack table. It would be customary to give the dealer around $100, at least. And the blackjack dealer did a lot less overall than Kuchar's caddie, who Kuch even gave credit to after the win.

 

Do you have to? Are you a terrible person if you don't? No, but you're cheap. Or ignorant.

 

All these arguments as to why Kuchar didn't owe this caddie anything, etc. are just sad , irrelevant attempts at trying to justify what was obviously just a really cheap action, if true.

[MtlJeff]

I haven't posted in this today because there's so only so much one can go in circles....but did we actually find out anything new?

 

No other then the same people doubling down and using buzzwords like "fair", "appropriate" & "common sense" & so on.. you get the idea...

 

Bingo. Virtute signaling at it's finest. The median yearly US income is 59k. The notion that a temp caddy that put in 4 days of work should be compensated nearly that amount because it's "only fair" seems a bit off to me.

 

5k (if that was in fact true) for less than a week of work is a healthy sum of money for just about anyone, even more so for someone not living in a first world country.

 

I don't believe 5k at all, I'm guessing it's more in the 10-15k range, but even then it's not like he was nipped in any way

 

BUT HE HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO CHANGE THIS MANS LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Instead of taking it to the extremes, could it just be that Matt Kuchar is cheap?

 

He didn't have a legal obligation or a moral obligation to do anything.

 

But if you WIN [big] to the tune of $1,296,000 (which happens very rarely even for Matt Kuchar), only giving $5,000 to your caddy is cheap. It's a low low tip.

 

I haven't seen anyone explain how it isn't. It's like if you win $10,000 at a blackjack table. It would be customary to give the dealer around $100, at least. And the blackjack dealer did a lot less overall than Kuchar's caddie, who Kuch even gave credit to after the win.

 

Do you have to? Are you a terrible person if you don't? No, but you're cheap. Or ignorant.

 

All these arguments as to why Kuchar didn't owe this caddie anything, etc. are just sad , irrelevant attempts at trying to justify what was obviously just a really cheap action, if true.

 

You're kind of taking it to extremes a bit too, saying people are arguing he owed his caddie nothing. I haven't really read that. I believe he owed him a fair wage

 

I don't know how to define "cheap", it's up to people's personal opinions. But i don't believe that someone's earnings should determine what another job is worth. If a guy who makes 75K a year tips a waiter 10$, i don't think that someone who makes 750k a year should tip that waiter 100$.

 

If Kuchar had paid the guy 5000$ and finished 23rd no one would care. But because he won i have read from various comments that he "should have changed this man's life" because he won a lot of money. I just don't have an issue with him paying a resort caddie 5K for a week's work, regardless of where he finished. That sounds like a fair wage to me

 

People who read my posts in this thread probably think i am a terrible tipper. I actually tip very generously! I just don't like telling others what to do with their money. If Kuch had given the guy his entire paycheck i wouldn't be like "ohhh that's terrible!" it's his right to do that. Generosity is nice. But i'll defend someone's right to not go above and beyond if they don't want to

[Ghostwedge]

Ok, iʻve read all the postʻs, opinions for and against, the one line that jumps out at me is El Toucan saying he told Kuchar to calm down at some point late in the tournament. ET isnʻt some slug lugging bags for beer and Senorita’s, the guy is a professional caddie and undoubtedly helped Kuchar win the tourney. $3-5,000 is chump change out of the 1st place check.

Pay the man, he earned it that week.