Patrick Reed working with Leadbetter

[North Texas]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > Okay, Leadbetter says he wasn't aware that Reeds current coach is remaining with him. I guess I think differently but if I'm a swing coach and someone calls me about working them, the first question I'm asking is what is your status with your current swing coach. And my ethical sense says I would decline the offer. But that's just me.

>

> Working with them or, as the story stated, just wanted an experienced pair of eyes to take a look and DL was available locally? If a major PGA pro asked you to take a look at their swing you would demand a copy of a contract with another teacher? IS teaching golf that much like marriage that a player should not seek other opinions?

 

Okay, re-read my post and you can clearly see that I didn't say anything about demanding a copy of a contract. What I am saying is that I would decline the offer out of professional courtesy. Apparently some people don't care about professional courtesy.

[PowderedToastMan]

This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

 

Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

[aliikane]

I actually was quite surprised by Reed going to Leadbetter. Leadbetter is a great instructor but from what I have seen over the years is his instruction seems more technically oriented toward more technically conventional swings. Reed has a much more unorthodox swing (which is not a bad thing) but seems like their philosophies on the golf swing would be quite different. However who knows, maybe it will just be great for Reed and won't change his swing too much and just tweaks.

[3jacker]

Perhaps you should share your reservations about this with Justine.

[gioguy21]

> @3jacker said:

> Perhaps you should share your reservations about this with Justine.

 

removed comment, i dont want to push the boundaries since being reinstated lol

[GolfChannel]

Now Reed versus Garcia, not sure who is more annoying, but the karma train continues.

[rdf43212]

I mean - at this point could it get worse? Maybe for Leadbetter

[Hawkeye77]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @3jacker said:

> > Perhaps you should share your reservations about this with Justine.

>

> removed comment, i dont want to push the boundaries since being reinstated lol

 

As long as you couch your remarks in terms of any political comments on marijuana, the mods don't care!

 

[Hawkeye77]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

>

> Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

 

I know from someone who knows a little about golf with personal experience with Leadbetter there are reasons for doubt, but having said that some pretty darn high profile major champions won majors working with Leadbetter years ago and owe a lot of credit to him for their success for sure. Always easy to take shots at the guys getting the most publicity and attention, no doubt.

 

[BB28403]

What i don’t get is why he wants to mess wiTh a masters winning formula this early on.

[oz dee cee]

Got to love golfwrx banter.

 

Who said Pattyboy didn’t tell his Mrs to ring Leadbetter??? He’d have a say 100%.

 

Leadbetter has taught a lot of top notch pros. He know stuff.

 

Alot of elite players have swing coaches and change or mix it up from time to time. They are always fine tuning.

 

Are we in dreamland here?

[Birdie Mac]

> @"oz dee cee" said:

> Got to love golfwrx banter.

>

> Who said Pattyboy didn’t tell his Mrs to ring Leadbetter??? He’d have a say 100%.

>

> Leadbetter has taught a lot of top notch pros. He know stuff.

>

> Alot of elite players have swing coaches and change or mix it up from time to time. They are always fine tuning.

>

> Are we in dreamland here?

Can't speak to whether or not we're in dreamland, but Leadbetter himself said Justine called him, and this was when Patrick was still on the course.

The pros keep hiring him, so I'd agree he knows his stuff.

 

[chigolfer1]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

>

> Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

 

It has nothing to do with "groupthink" whatever that's supposed to mean exactly. It primarily has to do with the swings of some high profile - mostly women - players he's seemingly ruined. Now, we obviously don't have the whole story and those are just a couple data points in a long career but it's not like people are making this up out of the blue.

[oz dee cee]

> @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > @"oz dee cee" said:

> > Got to love golfwrx banter.

> >

> > Who said Pattyboy didn’t tell his Mrs to ring Leadbetter??? He’d have a say 100%.

> >

> > Leadbetter has taught a lot of top notch pros. He know stuff.

> >

> > Alot of elite players have swing coaches and change or mix it up from time to time. They are always fine tuning.

> >

> > Are we in dreamland here?

> Can't speak to whether or not we're in dreamland, but Leadbetter himself said Justine called him, and this was when Patrick was still on the course.

> The pros keep hiring him, so I'd agree he knows his stuff.

>

Sorry, my bad. The point I’m trying to make is, I’m sure prior to the phone call, prior to Patrick playing on course, Justine and Patrick spoke about contacting Leadbetter for a lesson. It’s not as if Patty was blindsided.

 

Look, it makes for a great story and assists the disliking of the Reed team, but I just can’t believe Justine after seeing Pat hit a couple of poor shots, randomly rings Leadbetter whilst Patty is playing and tees up a meeting. All without him knowing. Unless anyone knows better, it’s fake news.

 

For what it’s worth, I’m not a fan of Reed and his team.

 

 

 

[PowderedToastMan]

> @chigolfer1 said:

> > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

> >

> > Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

>

> It has nothing to do with "groupthink" whatever that's supposed to mean exactly. It primarily has to do with the swings of some high profile - mostly women - players he's seemingly ruined. Now, we obviously don't have the whole story and those are just a couple data points in a long career but it's not like people are making this up out of the blue.

 

Did you just say this has nothing to do with groupthink and then immediately admit you don’t know what that means? How do you know it’s not groupthink if you don’t know what that is?

 

[Golfjack]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

> > >

> > > Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

> >

> > It has nothing to do with "groupthink" whatever that's supposed to mean exactly. It primarily has to do with the swings of some high profile - mostly women - players he's seemingly ruined. Now, we obviously don't have the whole story and those are just a couple data points in a long career but it's not like people are making this up out of the blue.

>

> Did you just say this has nothing to do with groupthink and then immediately admit you don’t know what that means? How do you know it’s not groupthink if you don’t know what that is?

>

LOL yes while Leadbetter hasn't really delivered for tour players (same as 99% of all coaches) he clearly is a good coach and better than 99% of the coaches out there. See the episode of him teaching the MeandMyGolf guys. He's a very good teacher in terms of experience, knowledge, and delivery of information. I don't know why he came up with the A swing since that doesn't seem to carry well for most people. Ko tried it and lost her edge. I also don't get why the top of the backswing he wants the left wrist to be cupped. Then at impact it's normal. Now that I see this, it's basically what Lydia was doing when she was with him. It didn't help her game at all but she gave it a good try.

 

[Shilgy]

> @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > @"oz dee cee" said:

> > Got to love golfwrx banter.

> >

> > Who said Pattyboy didn’t tell his Mrs to ring Leadbetter??? He’d have a say 100%.

> >

> > Leadbetter has taught a lot of top notch pros. He know stuff.

> >

> > Alot of elite players have swing coaches and change or mix it up from time to time. They are always fine tuning.

> >

> > Are we in dreamland here?

> Can't speak to whether or not we're in dreamland, but Leadbetter himself said Justine called him, and this was when Patrick was still on the course.

> The pros keep hiring him, so I'd agree he knows his stuff.

>

 

Pat and Justine may have discussed the idea over dinner the night before. Point being it might not be just a meddling wife.

We really don't know.

[Birdie Mac]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > > @"oz dee cee" said:

> > > Got to love golfwrx banter.

> > >

> > > Who said Pattyboy didn’t tell his Mrs to ring Leadbetter??? He’d have a say 100%.

> > >

> > > Leadbetter has taught a lot of top notch pros. He know stuff.

> > >

> > > Alot of elite players have swing coaches and change or mix it up from time to time. They are always fine tuning.

> > >

> > > Are we in dreamland here?

> > Can't speak to whether or not we're in dreamland, but Leadbetter himself said Justine called him, and this was when Patrick was still on the course.

> > The pros keep hiring him, so I'd agree he knows his stuff.

> >

>

> Pat and Justine may have discussed the orders over dinner the night before. Point being it might not be just a meddling wife.

> We really don't know.

Granted, we don't know what's going on with them, but I think we can agree it's highly unusual for a player's wife to recruit a swing coach for a player who already has one while the player is still hacking it up on the course. Patrick seemed to be ok with it, so... *shrugs*

 

 

[3jacker]

I don't know, but I strongly suspect that Justine will make Krista Glover look like the ideal life partner if Patrick doesn't start playing up to the standards she's become accustomed to.

 

And God help his instructor. You've been warned, Leads.

[ferrispgm]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

>

> Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

 

You also assume that tour pro's can't make a mistake in selecting a coach. Plenty have in a pursuit to get better. Tour pro's aren't all that different from everyone else. They want to get better. In an effort to get better they can easily make the wrong choice. Leadbetter is a master self promoter....same with some other top name coaches....doesn't mean they are great instructors with a great knowledge of how the swing works.

Anyone who is responsible for this train of thought should be chased with pitchforks: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F11%2FMichelle-Wie-Tip-2_0.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf.com%2Finstruction%2Fmichelle-wie-my-4-driving-secrets&docid=gjGjeDDcVfBFZM&tbnid=i5blj8smIeWF2M%3A&vet=12ahUKEwik9NnC4rbhAhXoQ98KHThmDqk49AMQMyhFMEV6BAgBEE0..i&w=640&h=540&bih=754&biw=1536&q=leadbetter%20wie&ved=2ahUKEwik9NnC4rbhAhXoQ98KHThmDqk49AMQMyhFMEV6BAgBEE0&iact=mrc&uact=8

[Shilgy]

> @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @"Birdie Mac" said:

> > > > @"oz dee cee" said:

> > > > Got to love golfwrx banter.

> > > >

> > > > Who said Pattyboy didn’t tell his Mrs to ring Leadbetter??? He’d have a say 100%.

> > > >

> > > > Leadbetter has taught a lot of top notch pros. He know stuff.

> > > >

> > > > Alot of elite players have swing coaches and change or mix it up from time to time. They are always fine tuning.

> > > >

> > > > Are we in dreamland here?

> > > Can't speak to whether or not we're in dreamland, but Leadbetter himself said Justine called him, and this was when Patrick was still on the course.

> > > The pros keep hiring him, so I'd agree he knows his stuff.

> > >

> >

> > Pat and Justine may have discussed the idea over dinner the night before. Point being it might not be just a meddling wife.

> > We really don't know.

> Granted, we don't know what's going on with them, but I think we can agree it's highly unusual for a player's wife to recruit a swing coach for a player who already has one while the player is still hacking it up on the course. Patrick seemed to be ok with it, so... *shrugs*

>

>

 

Unusual yes. But perhaps he wanted someone to look at his swing immediately and Leadbetter was the most qualified in the area.

[PowderedToastMan]

> @ferrispgm said:

> > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

> >

> > Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

>

> You also assume that tour pro's can't make a mistake in selecting a coach. Plenty have in a pursuit to get better. Tour pro's aren't all that different from everyone else. They want to get better. In an effort to get better they can easily make the wrong choice. Leadbetter is a master self promoter....same with some other top name coaches....doesn't mean they are great instructors with a great knowledge of how the swing works.

> Anyone who is responsible for this train of thought should be chased with pitchforks: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F11%2FMichelle-Wie-Tip-2_0.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf.com%2Finstruction%2Fmichelle-wie-my-4-driving-secrets&docid=gjGjeDDcVfBFZM&tbnid=i5blj8smIeWF2M%3A&vet=12ahUKEwik9NnC4rbhAhXoQ98KHThmDqk49AMQMyhFMEV6BAgBEE0..i&w=640&h=540&bih=754&biw=1536&q=leadbetter%20wie&ved=2ahUKEwik9NnC4rbhAhXoQ98KHThmDqk49AMQMyhFMEV6BAgBEE0&iact=mrc&uact=8

 

I don't assume tour pros can't make mistakes. When did I imply that? I'm fully aware of that and have seen it first-hand.

 

If David was a mistake for tour pros, he wouldn't have been at the peak of his profession for over three decades. You speak about David as if he doesn't know what he's talking about, when in reality you just don't agree with the stuff you've seen him teach. You are ignoring the very real fact that if David was a mistake for tour pros, they would stop getting his help! You really think they would keep coming just because he's a "master promoter"?

 

You are demonstrating your obvious bias. You clearly think David is so poor at teaching that you've ignored the fact that he's helped multiple players to majors and world #1 and has remained relevant in the world of teaching probably for longer than you've been alive.

 

Disagree with David all you want, but to imply he just hurts players and doesn't know what he's talking about is arrogant and oblivious. Everybody who teaches golf lessons for a living should be thanking David for his contributions to the profession. He's made your billable rate much higher thanks to his contributions. If you don't believe those last two sentences, that's straight from Butch Harmon in his book "The Pro".

[ferrispgm]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> > @ferrispgm said:

> > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

> > >

> > > Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

> >

> > You also assume that tour pro's can't make a mistake in selecting a coach. Plenty have in a pursuit to get better. Tour pro's aren't all that different from everyone else. They want to get better. In an effort to get better they can easily make the wrong choice. Leadbetter is a master self promoter....same with some other top name coaches....doesn't mean they are great instructors with a great knowledge of how the swing works.

> > Anyone who is responsible for this train of thought should be chased with pitchforks: https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F11%2FMichelle-Wie-Tip-2_0.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.golf.com%2Finstruction%2Fmichelle-wie-my-4-driving-secrets&docid=gjGjeDDcVfBFZM&tbnid=i5blj8smIeWF2M%3A&vet=12ahUKEwik9NnC4rbhAhXoQ98KHThmDqk49AMQMyhFMEV6BAgBEE0..i&w=640&h=540&bih=754&biw=1536&q=leadbetter%20wie&ved=2ahUKEwik9NnC4rbhAhXoQ98KHThmDqk49AMQMyhFMEV6BAgBEE0&iact=mrc&uact=8

>

> I don't assume tour pros can't make mistakes. When did I imply that? I'm fully aware of that and have seen it first-hand.

>

> If David was a mistake for tour pros, he wouldn't have been at the peak of his profession for over three decades. You speak about David as if he doesn't know what he's talking about, when in reality you just don't agree with the stuff you've seen him teach. You are ignoring the very real fact that if David was a mistake for tour pros, they would stop getting his help! You really think they would keep coming just because he's a "master promoter"?

>

> You are demonstrating your obvious bias. You clearly think David is so poor at teaching that you've ignored the fact that he's helped multiple players to majors and world #1 and has remained relevant in the world of teaching probably for longer than you've been alive.

>

> Disagree with David all you want, but to imply he just hurts players and doesn't know what he's talking about is arrogant and oblivious. Everybody who teaches golf lessons for a living should be thanking David for his contributions to the profession. He's made your billable rate much higher thanks to his contributions. If you don't believe those last two sentences, that's straight from Butch Harmon in his book "The Pro".

 

you could also say those players of insane talent....Faldo, Els, Ko.....succeeded in spite of Leadbetter rather than because of him. Anyone that has to promote themselves as much as he does is lacking....if you are good, people will find out. I'm not saying he doesn't know anything.....what I'm saying is there are way better coaches out there that know and can help more. Look at what he has done to Wie and Ko...ruined them...At least Ko is getting back on track after she left him.

[Hawkeye77]

> @PowderedToastMan said:

> > @chigolfer1 said:

> > > @PowderedToastMan said:

> > > This thread is an example of groupthink. You all actually believe Leadbetter is a terrible instructor. Stop for a second and think, why would tour pros keep coming to him if he ruined golf swings? They wouldn’t. You can disagree with his methods, but he’s clearly got some knowledge that the best in the world respect.

> > >

> > > Also, why shouldn’t a player be allowed to ask different coaches for help with their swing? Butch encourages his guys to learn from other coaches. Coaches who can’t handle their players getting help from another teacher need to reduce their ego by about 10,000 sizes.

> >

> > It has nothing to do with "groupthink" whatever that's supposed to mean exactly. It primarily has to do with the swings of some high profile - mostly women - players he's seemingly ruined. Now, we obviously don't have the whole story and those are just a couple data points in a long career but it's not like people are making this up out of the blue.

>

> Did you just say this has nothing to do with groupthink and then immediately admit you don’t know what that means? How do you know it’s not groupthink if you don’t know what that is?

>

Because a bunch of other folks influenced him!

[Lamb]

> @Rohlio said:

> Not a Patrick Reed fan.... So glad we will never have to see him again. A public service brought to you by David Leadbetter.

 

Comments like this are why the mods should bring a laughing emoticon

[TheInfidel]

This will be the best races in professional golf. Who can throw who under the bus first Lead-poisoning or Cap Murica.

One thing is for sure, there is no way Reed comes out the other side of this a better golfer than he went in.

No amount of A Swing propoganda or swing video sessions is going to get him a new attitude/wife.

[3jacker]

Leadbetter himself is the beneficiary of groupthink. Results of great players after consulting w/him speak for themselves. Being one of the leading names means in the profession means little in this day and age - self-promotion is the only thing that matter. See Jimmy Swaggart/Joel Osteen. You think they really know God and that he needs your money?

Player after player has declined after seeing him. Bad luck? Hmmm.

[DLBTide7]

As the OP, I find it very interesting to read the Leadbetter “bashing”. You can take ANY teacher and make a case that they “ruined” (other posters’ words; not mine) a player if their results are not what the general public perceives as a Hall of Fame worthy career (ex: Nick Whatney and Butch). Some of the players cited as “ruined” by Leadbetter do not take into account “other factors” (i.e. Michelle Wie who has a lot of injuries and who changes putters and putting styles almost weekly-nothing wrong with her ball striking; she simply is not a great putter).

 

 

What one can’t argue are the players that Leadbetter taught and influenced and their ensuing results: Faldo, Price, Els, Rose (to name just four) as well as the overall influence he has had on the teaching industry (one poster referenced Butch saying the same).

 

 

Yes, Leadbetter can be “quirky” (The A Swimg) in trying to help the average Joe and Jane Lunchbucket play better golf the 10 times they go out to play in a year. That does not negate the fact that he is a world class instructor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[buckeyefl]

> @DLBTide7 said:

> As the OP, I find it very interesting to read the Leadbetter “bashing”. You can take ANY teacher and make a case that they “ruined” (other posters’ words; not mine) a player if their results are not what the general public perceives as a Hall of Fame worthy career (ex: Nick Whatney and Butch). Some of the players cited as “ruined” by Leadbetter do not take into account “other factors” (i.e. Michelle Wie who has a lot of injuries and who changes putters and putting styles almost weekly-nothing wrong with her ball striking; she simply is not a great putter).

>

>

> What one can’t argue are the players that Leadbetter taught and influenced and their ensuing results: Faldo, Price, Els, Rose (to name just four) as well as the overall influence he has had on the teaching industry (one poster referenced Butch saying the same).

>

>

> Yes, Leadbetter can be “quirky” (The A Swimg) in trying to help the average Joe and Jane Lunchbucket play better golf the 10 times they go out to play in a year. That does not negate the fact that he is a world class instructor.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

Well said.

[rushfan96]

I know Leadbetter gets a lot of vitriol on this board but I go back reread his first book The Golf Swing when I get in a funk.