What up with Jordan?

[straightshot7]

Why does it matter if he was in real contention or not? Seems like a major cop out. One could argue that he should be able to go lower with the pressure off from not being closer to the lead.

 

Where he finished is where he finished. And what he shot is what he shot. This whole “well he wasn’t really in contention anyway” argument makes no sense. As if Spieth wasn’t trying to shoot his best round possible regardless.

 

One could also say that he should have shot better rounds on Thursday, Friday, Saturday so he would BE in contention.

 

I have a theory that the Spiethiests may not like. It’s the “he’s just not that good right now” theory. And it remains to be seen whether he’ll ever be that good ever again. I think he will be a top 5 player again someday but never dominant. Just my 2 cents.

[lowheel]

> @straightshot7 said:

> Why does it matter if he was in real contention or not? Seems like a major cop out. One could argue that he should be able to go lower with the pressure off from not being closer to the lead.

>

> Where he finished is where he finished. And what he shot is what he shot. This whole “well he wasn’t really in contention anyway” argument makes no sense. As if Spieth wasn’t trying to shoot his best round possible regardless.

>

> One could also say that he should have shot better rounds on Thursday, Friday, Saturday so he would BE in contention.

>

> I have a theory that **the Spiethiests** may not like. It’s the “he’s just not that good right now” theory. And it remains to be seen whether he’ll ever be that good ever again. I think he will be a top 5 player again someday but never dominant. Just my 2 cents.

 

By this definition does that make you a "tigerist". ;)

[grm24]

> @agolf1 said:

> Unfortunately, Spieth's round on Saturday took him out of both the PGA and Open this year.

>

YJS shooting 69 in the 3rd round of The Open took him out of it?

 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @bladehunter said:

> See. We agree. Neither of us knows the future. Except that we have past predictors to consider. Normal pga tour pros don’t win 3 majors and have as many top 10s in majors as he does. If I read correctly he’s 2 Nd to only brooks in major record since 2014. Hmmm. Don’t see Brian Harmon doing that. We shall see.

OK, maybe I got annoyed by what seemed like unconditional defense of the guy again (which is fine).

 

But how much of your net worth (%, don't care if you are worth $1 or $100 billion) would you bet at even money that he ends with 22 wins and 6 majors (or better)? No right answer. Maybe even that's too high of a bar to say "he flopped after the start" if he doesn't make it. 10 wins and 2 majors in a decade is pretty good. But my point is I think it's something around these levels that will keep him from getting associated with a quick start that exceeded his natural level (rightly or wrongly). Winning one tournament every other year or so, and grabbing 1 major (add'l for him) is something a lot of guys will do over 10-15 years. Of course Spieth's total career would be better.

 

This is probably where we disagree. I wouldn't bet a penny. Not because I don't think he can do it but because I probably think it's a lot more random than you do.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @grm24 said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > Unfortunately, Spieth's round on Saturday took him out of both the PGA and Open this year.

> >

> YJS shooting 69 in the 3rd round of The Open took him out of it?

I guess he was T8 after both 36 and 54 holes. But he was farther back from even 2nd after 54 holes (I'll ignore Lowry and his 63). Just seemed like there were some better scores out there that day. Not saying a 67 would have put him right there though so maybe this wasn't the greatest statement made.

[bladehunter]

> @straightshot7 said:

> Why does it matter if he was in real contention or not? Seems like a major cop out. One could argue that he should be able to go lower with the pressure off from not being closer to the lead.

>

> Where he finished is where he finished. And what he shot is what he shot. This whole “well he wasn’t really in contention anyway” argument makes no sense. As if Spieth wasn’t trying to shoot his best round possible regardless.

>

> One could also say that he should have shot better rounds on Thursday, Friday, Saturday so he would BE in contention.

>

> I have a theory that the Spiethiests may not like. It’s the “he’s just not that good right now” theory. And it remains to be seen whether he’ll ever be that good ever again. I think he will be a top 5 player again someday but never dominant. Just my 2 cents.

 

Lol. Also overstating the obvious. Of course he’s not playing that good right now. Compared to himself that is. Compared to others he’s playing better.

[bladehunter]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > See. We agree. Neither of us knows the future. Except that we have past predictors to consider. Normal pga tour pros don’t win 3 majors and have as many top 10s in majors as he does. If I read correctly he’s 2 Nd to only brooks in major record since 2014. Hmmm. Don’t see Brian Harmon doing that. We shall see.

> OK, maybe I got annoyed by what seemed like unconditional defense of the guy again (which is fine).

>

> But how much of your net worth (%, don't care if you are worth $1 or $100 billion) would you bet at even money that he ends with 22 wins and 6 majors (or better)? No right answer. Maybe even that's too high of a bar to say "he flopped after the start" if he doesn't make it. 10 wins and 2 majors in a decade is pretty good. But my point is I think it's something around these levels that will keep him from getting associated with a quick start that exceeded his natural level (rightly or wrongly). Winning one tournament every other year or so, and grabbing 1 major (add'l for him) is something a lot of guys will do over 10-15 years. Of course Spieth's total career would be better.

>

> This is probably where we disagree. I wouldn't bet a penny. Not because I don't think he can do it but because I probably think it's a lot more random than you do.

 

If we have an injury clause ( as in barring injury ) I’d bet quite a bit that he gets to 6 and 22. He has 25 years to play. We will see some big changes soon. If something doesn’t break. Guy isn’t going to ride McCormick into retirement.

[bladehunter]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @grm24 said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > Unfortunately, Spieth's round on Saturday took him out of both the PGA and Open this year.

> > >

> > YJS shooting 69 in the 3rd round of The Open took him out of it?

> I guess he was T8 after both 36 and 54 holes. But he was farther back from even 2nd after 54 holes (I'll ignore Lowry and his 63). Just seemed like there were some better scores out there that day. Not saying a 67 would have put him right there though so maybe this wasn't the greatest statement made.

 

 

3rd round did take everyone out. Jordan in particular . He missed a couple birdie putts by millimeters coming in. When the leader shoots 63. You need 66-67 minimum to keep up. It was over after Saturday without a leader implosion.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > See. We agree. Neither of us knows the future. Except that we have past predictors to consider. Normal pga tour pros don’t win 3 majors and have as many top 10s in majors as he does. If I read correctly he’s 2 Nd to only brooks in major record since 2014. Hmmm. Don’t see Brian Harmon doing that. We shall see.

> > OK, maybe I got annoyed by what seemed like unconditional defense of the guy again (which is fine).

> >

> > But how much of your net worth (%, don't care if you are worth $1 or $100 billion) would you bet at even money that he ends with 22 wins and 6 majors (or better)? No right answer. Maybe even that's too high of a bar to say "he flopped after the start" if he doesn't make it. 10 wins and 2 majors in a decade is pretty good. But my point is I think it's something around these levels that will keep him from getting associated with a quick start that exceeded his natural level (rightly or wrongly). Winning one tournament every other year or so, and grabbing 1 major (add'l for him) is something a lot of guys will do over 10-15 years. Of course Spieth's total career would be better.

> >

> > This is probably where we disagree. I wouldn't bet a penny. Not because I don't think he can do it but because I probably think it's a lot more random than you do.

>

> If we have an injury clause ( as in barring injury ) I’d bet quite a bit that he gets to 6 and 22. He has 25 years to play. We will see some big changes soon. If something doesn’t break. Guy isn’t going to ride McCormick into retirement.

OK, interesting. We will see. I kind of assume he has 60 more cracks at it (majors) where he's very competitive. Maybe you can push it to 45 years / 80 tries, but after that I think the odds are falling quite a bit (not that you can't steal one like Phil almost did at the 2016 Open but you are probably a bit of a different player somewhere along the line). Regardless, I don't think whatever this number is fixed at is the main point. Time isn't his issue - it's getting the game headed in the right direction again.

[North Texas]

> @straightshot7 said:

> Why does it matter if he was in real contention or not? Seems like a major cop out. One could argue that he should be able to go lower with the pressure off from not being closer to the lead.

>

> Where he finished is where he finished. And what he shot is what he shot. This whole “well he wasn’t really in contention anyway” argument makes no sense. As if Spieth wasn’t trying to shoot his best round possible regardless.

>

> One could also say that he should have shot better rounds on Thursday, Friday, Saturday so he would BE in contention.

>

> I have a theory that the Spiethiests may not like. It’s the “he’s just not that good right now” theory. And it remains to be seen whether he’ll ever be that good ever again. I think he will be a top 5 player again someday but never dominant. Just my 2 cents.

 

I'll raise my hand as being a Spiethiest. Your theory that "he's just not that good right now" is not a theory. It's the plain and simple truth. And I agree with the rest of your post.

[ray9898]

Funny....as 'horrible as he is playing he is still in the top 70 in Fedex points. He is having a bad time based on his previous level of play but even at his worst he is still better than most on tour.

[tsecor]

At this point Spieth has to be feeling like this

 

 

[denvergolf]

It's pretty crazy that people can get so worked up over Tiger, Jordan, Rory, Sergio, whomever...when it is 99.9% likely they have never had a conversation with that person, nor have they competed at their level in any capacity.

[lowheel]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @lowheel said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > > >

> > > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > > >

> > > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> > >

> > >

> > > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> >

> > Ok, you missed my point or I was not clear. He was right there in contention and let it slip away.... Again.

> > You say Jordan is "a great". And based on his numbers perhaps he is. Or will be considered one. IMO to be considered one he definitely will need to get it going again. 11 wins is not a great of the game. And it's happened before. Look up Ralph Guldahl. He won 16 times and 3 majors relatively young and disappeared. I'm sure the posts on wrx back then were full of "he's close" type of comments.

> > Right now he is a player that had an incredibly hot start to his career. One of the best starts of all time in fact. Very similar to both Tiger and Guldahl.

> > Which one will his career turn out to be like is the question. Only time will tell.

>

> My somewhat educated opinion is that it will be more Guldahl than Woods. That's based on following pro golf since the 1970's.

>

> I sure am glad that Jordan gets a lot of support around here. He's going to need it.

 

wow this post and the smugness behind it pretty much captures this thread... that last sentence is very telling of your "opinion".

[PowerFade36]

Putting stroke looks real nice today.

[PowerFade36]

...and then a triple bogey on 12

[bladehunter]

Watch Spieths recovery shot on 17 against the OB fence. It forced him to take it nearly straight up and drop it back down on the ball. He hit a laser from jail to 10-12 feet on the green. Has to be a lightbulb moment. So clear to the outside spectator. That stupid flat swing is nothing but huge slinging hooks and occasional holdon blocks.

[North Texas]

Who was the guy in the booth that said he just got a text from Jordan to meet him on the range? Had just turned on the TV when I heard that.

[Krt22]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> ...and then a triple bogey on 12

 

Sprays one in the water, decent recovery shot, 4 putt. lulz

 

I will have to watch later how he hacked up 15

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Who was the guy in the booth that said he just got a text from Jordan to meet him on the range? Had just turned on the TV when I heard that.

 

Not sure. I walked out to start the grille and just came back.

 

He needs to call an exorcist! I don’t know if there’s a prayer for getting rid of a flat inside takeaway. But I’d say it If I were him.

[lowheel]

hilarious scorecard 2 triples and still shoots par!

[Titleist_PT23]

Even par with two triples. I swear, this guy reminds me of Phil a few years ago. Hits tons of good shots but there's always one hole or one round in the tournament that blows it up. When watching, it's like you're just waiting for something bad to happen even if everything is going fine.

 

Yes, I know you need to play all 18 holes. I'd still suck but be a lot better if you removed my two worst holes per round too...

[Krt22]

> @agolf1 said:

> Even par with two triples. I swear, this guy reminds me of Phil a few years ago. Hits tons of good shots but there's always one hole or one round in the tournament that blows it up. When watching, it's like you're just waiting for something bad to happen even if everything is going fine.

>

> Yes, I know you need to play all 18 holes. I'd still suck but be a lot better if you removed my two worst holes per round too...

 

Rickie is the same way. Tons of birdies and 2 blow up holes. Mainly on Sat/Sunday of course

[JK Ward]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Who was the guy in the booth that said he just got a text from Jordan to meet him on the range? Had just turned on the TV when I heard that.

 

Colt Knost, I believe. Colt had said earlier Jordan had the ball positioned too close to the middle of his stance for a driver. He mentioned it to Jordan's caddie which is probably why Jordan texted him.

[bladehunter]

> @"JK Ward" said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > Who was the guy in the booth that said he just got a text from Jordan to meet him on the range? Had just turned on the TV when I heard that.

>

> Colt Knost, I believe. Colt had said earlier Jordan had the ball positioned too close to the middle of his stance for a driver. He mentioned it to Jordan's caddie which is probably why Jordan texted him.

 

Clearly turning into a case of paralysis by analysis.

 

You could kidnap him. Drop him on an island with 2 holes and a bag of clubs and balls and guaranteed he fixes it on his own. He hasn’t yet because he hasn’t had to. And there’s a powerful voice in his ear leading him astray. McCormick is to blame. At least 50/50. And I disagree that his real swing is gone. It’s been said here a couple times that you can’t just go back. I believe that’s nonsense. If you decide to and put in the work , going back should be twice as easy as continuing to fail at a new pattern. Especially if it gives you a taste of success or feeling of control ... confidence is a powerful thing. I’m shocked that he’s continued to dig the hole deeper for this long. Reset button could be hit anytime.

[straightshot7]

Spieth taking tips from 0 time winner Colt Knost? Maybe this is rock bottom.

[PowerFade36]

-4 thru 10 holes today.

He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

[bladehunter]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> -4 thru 10 holes today.

> He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

 

That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

 

Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

[Krt22]

> @straightshot7 said:

> Spieth taking tips from 0 time winner Colt Knost? Maybe this is rock bottom.

 

I watched the broadcast, I'm fairly certain he was being facetous.

[straightshot7]

> @Krt22 said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > Spieth taking tips from 0 time winner Colt Knost? Maybe this is rock bottom.

>

> I watched the broadcast, I'm fairly certain he was being facetous.

 

Who knows. Maybe Colt Knost is the next Butch Harmon. -5 through 16...