What up with Jordan?

[grm24]

> @agolf1 said:

> Had to scroll down quite a ways to find him. A disappointment, but it seems like the duct tape and wire finally burst again.

 

We could all see this coming for his 3rd round today. His putting saved his rear the first two rounds. Especially the 1st round. His ball striking in rounds 1&2 were awful. That carried over to round 3 and his putting dissapeared. Again. Worst round by 3 shots on Saturday.

[KRAMER1997]

Something is wrong when a player like Jordan say this: "Man, I don't know what's going on". I'm no swing critique by any means, but this year I noticed that his swing is shorter than it was in 2015 especially with the driver, and there is a lot more club face rotation. I wonder if he's injured or something. A couple other things did stand out to me, First, the fact that he has 10 finishes outside the top 50, and second he struggle more on the weekends. Jordan is top 20 in first/second round scoring and birdie average. But he is outside top 100 in 3rd round scoring and 201st in 4th round scoring. So in conclusion, he Spieth gets off to good starts despite his struggles of the tee, but his erratic driving catches up to him on the weekend.

[Krt22]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Dave230 said:

> > Sometimes I think the 2017 Open was a sign of things to come for Spieth, but not in the way we thought. His brilliant bogey on that famous hole may have clinched another major for him but the fact he could hit a 40 yard slice under pressure was more to the point. Every time he tees it up these days he's in danger of one of those horribly wayward ones and you just can't score when you're putting double bogeys on the card regularly even if you putt lights up. Might even survive one round or two rounds without one but never 72 holes and he won't win another tournament until he sorts his driving out.

>

> This is telling. If the practice area were out of bounds, as it should have been, Matt Kuchar wins that Open Championship.

>

> Jordan found out for the first two rounds at the Wyndham that he can still putt. The big question mark is whether he can keep his driver on the planet. At the moment, the answer is: no.

>

> Edit: Jordan has a very awkward driver swing. Most of us can see it for what it is; the guys who wanted Jordan to be the next Tiger cannot see it for what it is. His awkward swing start with an awkward grip (not my words, Tom Watson's words), and ends in an awkward chicken swing follow through. I think that his swing is his signature, and will never change much.

>

> If you want to worship Jordan, you do so at your own peril.

 

His iron swing isnt much better. Friday he pulled a shot from the fairway 50 yards left, today hit some real garbage irons from the fairway as well.

[OldTomMorris]

> @gvogel said:

> This is telling. If the practice area were out of bounds, as it should have been, Matt Kuchar wins that Open Championship.

 

Spieth won by 3 in the end.

 

Even if the practice area was OB he would have taken his drop elsewhere. OK it would likely have been a complete hack out rather than an attempt at the green but he could have still made 5 or at worst 6. IMO as a break it's being exaggerated with time.

 

[SilvioDante]

I tried to find out, but didn’t find the proper answer. So what’s the main problem with the Jordan’s swing? Is it something mechanic thing about his swing or is it just mental, when the swing breaks, it just breaks? When the ball slices 40 yards to the right, what happens in his swing that causes the outcome? I’m curious, and I hope Jordan is going find his way out of this problem.

[Dave230]

> @OldTomMorris said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > This is telling. If the practice area were out of bounds, as it should have been, Matt Kuchar wins that Open Championship.

>

> Spieth won by 3 in the end.

>

> Even if the practice area was OB he would have taken his drop elsewhere. OK it would likely have been a complete hack out rather than an attempt at the green but he could have still made 5 or at worst 6. IMO as a break it's being exaggerated with time.

>

 

You failed to mention that he went birdie, eagle, birdie, birdie after that bogey. Context is everything in that incident:

 

- The previous season he quadruple-bogeyed a par 3 to lose the Masters, if he doubles or triples how does that affect his confidence?

- Kuchar was on the middle of the fairway but had to wait about 15 minutes to play his shot and then hit an average one. If that's OB, he probably hits his second shot almost immediately

- Getting a good bogey can be a massive momentum kicker, I just don't see how Spieth shoots -5 over 4 holes after a triple bogey. The momentum was obvious.

[OldTomMorris]

> @Dave230 said:

> > @OldTomMorris said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > This is telling. If the practice area were out of bounds, as it should have been, Matt Kuchar wins that Open Championship.

> >

> > Spieth won by 3 in the end.

> >

> > Even if the practice area was OB he would have taken his drop elsewhere. OK it would likely have been a complete hack out rather than an attempt at the green but he could have still made 5 or at worst 6. IMO as a break it's being exaggerated with time.

> >

>

> You failed to mention that he went birdie, eagle, birdie, birdie after that bogey. Context is everything in that incident:

>

> - The previous season he quadruple-bogeyed a par 3 to lose the Masters, if he doubles or triples how does that affect his confidence?

> - Kuchar was on the middle of the fairway but had to wait about 15 minutes to play his shot and then hit an average one. If that's OB, he probably hits his second shot almost immediately

> - Getting a good bogey can be a massive momentum kicker, I just don't see how Spieth shoots -5 over 4 holes after a triple bogey. The momentum was obvious.

 

OK but it's no more or less likely than what I suggested. I'm sure if Kuchar wanted to play he could have OK'd it. Spieth won despite the setback and at Augusta he almost clawed it back.

 

Jordan is really toiling now and I think he'd struggle to overcome a destructive shot like that now but back then he was a different player.

[bladehunter]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Dave230 said:

> > Sometimes I think the 2017 Open was a sign of things to come for Spieth, but not in the way we thought. His brilliant bogey on that famous hole may have clinched another major for him but the fact he could hit a 40 yard slice under pressure was more to the point. Every time he tees it up these days he's in danger of one of those horribly wayward ones and you just can't score when you're putting double bogeys on the card regularly even if you putt lights up. Might even survive one round or two rounds without one but never 72 holes and he won't win another tournament until he sorts his driving out.

>

> This is telling. If the practice area were out of bounds, as it should have been, Matt Kuchar wins that Open Championship.

>

> Jordan found out for the first two rounds at the Wyndham that he can still putt. The big question mark is whether he can keep his driver on the planet. At the moment, the answer is: no.

>

> Edit: Jordan has a very awkward driver swing. Most of us can see it for what it is; the guys who wanted Jordan to be the next Tiger cannot see it for what it is. His awkward swing start with an awkward grip (not my words, Tom Watson's words), and ends in an awkward chicken swing follow through. I think that his swing is his signature, and will never change much.

>

> If you want to worship Jordan, you do so at your own peril.

 

Has to be said. That first part is not true.

 

He didn’t hit it on the range. He took an unplayable because the range was not ob. He could have hit the shot on the hill. No way for you to say that he doesn’t still win if he can’t go back and drop. We could see the ball it wasn’t a hopeless position , just a smart strategic move to take the unplayable and drop.

[bladehunter]

Look for a coach change soon. I agree with McCord ... we’re about to see “ something” happen. Either a long time off , or a coach change , or both. A guy doesn’t just continue to do this forever. This waist bent , weight on heels , flat , flippy swing has to go .

 

Go see one of the Harmon’s. Today.

[braincramp52]

Maybe the Jordan Spieth we watch now IS the real JS. 2015 was a magical year that might not be done again. I don't think it's realistic for him to have a repeat of it.

[Socrates]

The more I see what he is doing, he might be the 2nd coming of Ian Baker-Finch or David Duval.

[dlygrisse]

2015 was magical for sure. But Jordan has always been a champion his entire life, he was great as a junior and as a young man on tour. I really think dunking it in the creek on 12 at the Masters robbed some confidence. I think reality is somewhere in between, the guy has 20 more years to play the tour, he’ll get it figured out and start winning again I pretty confident.

I am worried Jordan tried to chase distance and that can be a disaster, he seems to be hitting it longer than he used to.

> @lawsonman said:

> Maybe the Jordan Spieth we watch now IS the real JS. 2015 was a magical year that might not be done again. I don't think it's realistic for him to have a repeat of it.

 

 

[dlygrisse]

I’m no swing coach but what I see is a player with a very weak left hand grip. To square the face and draw it like his trying to do you really have to put a lot of right hand into the shot. Doing this requires really good timing and great “hands”. It can be done, Hogan, Johnny Miller and some others did it, but it seems his parts aren’t matching and he’s out of sync. If the body outraces the hands with a weak grip it’s a 2 way miss all day.

[bladehunter]

> @lawsonman said:

> Maybe the Jordan Spieth we watch now IS the real JS. 2015 was a magical year that might not be done again. I don't think it's realistic for him to have a repeat of it.

 

3 time major winners don’t regress to a mean that is shooting 77 on Saturday. That makes no sense.

[LICC]

> @Socrates said:

> The more I see what he is doing, he might be the 2nd coming of Ian Baker-Finch or David Duval.

 

Except with Duval his back went. Jordan isn’t having physical issues. His drop-off is hard to explain

[PowerFade36]

For the posters that are mentioning a David Duval type breakdown, did DD have tournaments where he would shoot -6 and then +7, while he was on his way down? Ie: talent is still there but inconsistent.

[Socrates]

> @LICC said:

> > @Socrates said:

> > The more I see what he is doing, he might be the 2nd coming of Ian Baker-Finch or David Duval.

>

> Except with Duval his back went. Jordan isn’t having physical issues. His drop-off is hard to explain

 

> @PowerFade36 said:

> For the posters that are mentioning a David Duval type breakdown, did DD have tournaments where he would shoot -6 and then +7, while he was on his way down? Ie: talent is still there but inconsistent.

 

But once Duval was healthy and tried to resume his career, he was/is plagued by hitting the occasional shot off the planet. He would play great for a stretch of holes and then he wouldn't have a clue where it would land. Spieth is seemingly right there. He is still very young and he might sort this out, but for now he is at a loss, by his own admission.

[bullie76]

I agree that a coaching change would probably be helpful to get him back to swinging like he did 3-4 years ago. And as others have said, review those older films to see the difference. He will be out of the playoffs in a week or two....use that time to make a change.

[LICC]

> @Socrates said:

> > @LICC said:

> > > @Socrates said:

> > > The more I see what he is doing, he might be the 2nd coming of Ian Baker-Finch or David Duval.

> >

> > Except with Duval his back went. Jordan isn’t having physical issues. His drop-off is hard to explain

>

> > @PowerFade36 said:

> > For the posters that are mentioning a David Duval type breakdown, did DD have tournaments where he would shoot -6 and then +7, while he was on his way down? Ie: talent is still there but inconsistent.

>

> But once Duval was healthy and tried to resume his career, he was/is plagued by hitting the occasional shot off the planet. He would play great for a stretch of holes and then he wouldn't have a clue where it would land. Spieth is seemingly right there. He is still very young and he might sort this out, but for now he is at a loss, by his own admission.

 

Duval was never the same physically once his back went. Just not a good comparison for what is happening with Jordan.

[braincramp52]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @lawsonman said:

> > Maybe the Jordan Spieth we watch now IS the real JS. 2015 was a magical year that might not be done again. I don't think it's realistic for him to have a repeat of it.

>

> 3 time major winners don’t regress to a mean that is shooting 77 on Saturday. That makes no sense.

 

That happens quite often blade. And before you ask I'm way too lazy to provide examples. ?

[bladehunter]

> @lawsonman said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @lawsonman said:

> > > Maybe the Jordan Spieth we watch now IS the real JS. 2015 was a magical year that might not be done again. I don't think it's realistic for him to have a repeat of it.

> >

> > 3 time major winners don’t regress to a mean that is shooting 77 on Saturday. That makes no sense.

>

> That happens quite often blade. And before you ask I'm way too lazy to provide examples. ?

 

No worries. Not a personal attack. So no need. I just don’t think the mean for any pro player is 77. Much less a proven champ like that kid. He’s never been a guy shooting those numbers. Not since his early teens. This is a failed swing change which is now a loss of confidence. Period. What needs to happen is a rewind of the tape. A swing fix will bring confidence, and that will bring high level play. I don’t know the amount of wins etc. no body does. But what we are seeing now is no players norm. Nobody. Not at any level of real pro golf.

[idrive]

I believe it was on Friday's telecast that they lined up (side by side) a slow mo of his current swing and the 2015 swing. The difference/change was stark. To me and others it seems simple enough to go back to the '15 swing, there are plenty of videos of it. I don't understand why he can't be smart enough to understand it.

 

If you can't keep it in the fairway the extra 10 yards off of the t isn't going to help....

[KRAMER1997]

> @idrive said:

> I believe it was on Friday's telecast that they lined up (side by side) a slow mo of his current swing and the 2015 swing. The difference/change was stark. To me and others it seems simple enough to go back to the '15 swing, there are plenty of videos of it. I don't understand why he can't be smart enough to understand it.

>

> If you can't keep it in the fairway the extra 10 yards off of the t isn't going to help....

 

This is it. He's over-swinging and can't square up the face at impact. I don't know what his swing coach has been telling him for the past year, but whatever it is, it's not working.

[North Texas]

I'm not totally sold that chasing distance screwed his swing up. The stats show that from 2015 to 2018, he gained 7 yards and was just as accurate in 2018 as he was in 2015. Now all of a sudden in 2019, he is hitting his driver 5 yards shorter than last year and much more crooked. Something has happened and I'm just not convinced it was a result of chasing distance.

 

 

 

 

 

[Socrates]

> @LICC said:

> > @Socrates said:

> > > @LICC said:

> > > > @Socrates said:

> > > > The more I see what he is doing, he might be the 2nd coming of Ian Baker-Finch or David Duval.

> > >

> > > Except with Duval his back went. Jordan isn’t having physical issues. His drop-off is hard to explain

> >

> > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > For the posters that are mentioning a David Duval type breakdown, did DD have tournaments where he would shoot -6 and then +7, while he was on his way down? Ie: talent is still there but inconsistent.

> >

> > But once Duval was healthy and tried to resume his career, he was/is plagued by hitting the occasional shot off the planet. He would play great for a stretch of holes and then he wouldn't have a clue where it would land. Spieth is seemingly right there. He is still very young and he might sort this out, but for now he is at a loss, by his own admission.

>

> Duval was never the same physically once his back went. Just not a good comparison for what is happening with Jordan.

 

Physcially or mentally, the results are the same. OB, OB. See ya later.

[Krt22]

> @"North Texas" said:

> I'm not totally sold that chasing distance screwed his swing up. The stats show that from 2015 to 2018, he gained 7 yards and was just as accurate in 2018 as he was in 2015. Now all of a sudden in 2019, he is hitting his driver 5 yards shorter than last year and much more crooked. Something has happened and I'm just not convinced it was a result of chasing distance.

>

>

>

>

>

 

Very likely he's shorter because he's more crooked. He has the screaming hook or slice miss, neither of which are conducive to distance

[Socrates]

> @"North Texas" said:

> I'm not totally sold that chasing distance screwed his swing up. The stats show that from 2015 to 2018, he gained 7 yards and was just as accurate in 2018 as he was in 2015. Now all of a sudden in 2019, he is hitting his driver 5 yards shorter than last year and much more crooked. Something has happened and I'm just not convinced it was a result of chasing distance.

>

Not on the same level, but in the mid 90's I was really struggling putting and chipping. Put a lot of pressure on the rest of the game and things went sideways for quite a while. OB was in my mind a lot and I didn't disappoint. It was a deep hole to get out of, but it can be done. If a schmuckk like me can find a way, I think Spieth can too. He's got talent, time and money. Might be time to boot his camp and start fresh.

[garrifij]

Fire Cameron for God's sake. Get Harmon or Gankas or Monty on a plane to the East Coast stat!

[braincramp52]

I know one thing. I'm not sure I want JS as a endorser if I were Club Champion! :D

[straightshot7]

I think he will figure it out eventually and be a top 5 player. But what if his mind is not suited for swing changes.

 

What I mean is, the way he (over) analyzes everything may make swing changes more difficult. He doesn't just adopt something, he has to ruminate over it and perhaps make it worse.

 

His original swing was so ingrained and natural to him that he didn't think about it. Now his swing is under the constant microscope of his active mind.

 

Or maybe it really is just terrible instruction and bad mechanics. But then you have to wonder why he didn't figure that out a long time ago.