What up with Jordan?

[North Texas]

Just for a little fun, let's take a look at the average driving distance stats in today's 3rd round for a few players.

Rory McElroy 305.5

Brooks Koepka 312.5

Jon Rahm 295.0

Justin Thomas 303.5

Dustin Johnson 305.5

Jason Day 296.0

Bubba Watson 309.0

Jordan Spieth 312.5

 

 

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @PowerFade36 said:

> > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

>

> That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

>

> Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

 

Easy peasy? Simple?

[Titleist_PT23]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Just for a little fun, let's take a look at the average driving distance stats in today's 3rd round for a few players.

> Rory McElroy 305.5

> Brooks Koepka 312.5

> Jon Rahm 295.0

> Justin Thomas 303.5

> Dustin Johnson 305.5

> Jason Day 296.0

> Bubba Watson 309.0

> Jordan Spieth 312.5

>

Everyone hit driver off of all the measured holes today? He's clearly not as long as some of these other guys, although I don't think that's his main issue.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> >

> > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> >

> > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

>

> Easy peasy? Simple?

 

This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

 

Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

[PowerFade36]

But is he better off plowing forward with the ups and downs, or going back?

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > >

> > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > >

> > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> >

> > Easy peasy? Simple?

>

> This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

>

> Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

 

Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

 

And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

[straightshot7]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > >

> > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > >

> > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > >

> > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> >

> > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> >

> > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

>

> Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

>

> And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

 

What if he moves forward into his old swing?

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > >

> > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > >

> > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > >

> > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> >

> > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> >

> > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

>

> Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

>

> And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

 

If he had completed any real changes I’d concede at least a partial point. But he’s playing with a patchwork on nonsense. He hasn’t changed to anything in a complete fashion. Just a mess. Only Moving his plane back upright would immediately net some narrowing of his miss. Which would probably net some confidence, then you could tune from that. With what he’s using now I guarantee if he’s honest he’s standing over the ball going “ don’t go left “ which is no way to play this game.

[bladehunter]

 

This is what I’m taking about. Go to this old video. Start around the 355-4 minute mark. Watch the description of a more conventional face path and arc through impact vs his 2015 face path and impact. His iron advantage is explained there. It’s only achievable with an upright swing. The more you lay the plane down the more face rotation is required through impact. He’s essentially regressed to the more traditional face/impact positions and is now trying to learn to time it up. Dumb dumb dumb.

 

 

 

 

[gvogel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > >

> > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > >

> > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > >

> > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> >

> > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> >

> > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

>

> Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

>

> And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

 

When I was younger I used to have a nice upright swing like Tom Watson. Now that I'm older, my swing is closer to Mark O'Meara; just nowhere near as powerful or athletic in both cases.

Sometimes you can't go back.

[Shilgy]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > > >

> > > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > > >

> > > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > > >

> > > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> > >

> > > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> > >

> > > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

> >

> > Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

> >

> > And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

>

> When I was younger I used to have a nice upright swing like Tom Watson. Now that I'm older, my swing is closer to Mark O'Meara; just nowhere near as powerful or athletic in both cases.

> Sometimes you can't go back.

 

That's all I've been saying. Yes, he can attempt to relearn a swing similar to his old swing but he cannot just wake up one morning and think "gee, I'll just swing like I used to and all will be better". A few posts have tried to make it sound as simple as that but it doesn't work that way

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > > > >

> > > > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> > > >

> > > > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> > > >

> > > > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

> > >

> > > Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

> > >

> > > And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

> >

> > When I was younger I used to have a nice upright swing like Tom Watson. Now that I'm older, my swing is closer to Mark O'Meara; just nowhere near as powerful or athletic in both cases.

> > Sometimes you can't go back.

>

> That's all I've been saying. Yes, he can attempt to relearn a swing similar to his old swing but he cannot just wake up one morning and think "gee, I'll just swing like I used to and all will be better". A few posts have tried to make it sound as simple as that but it doesn't work that way

 

Not true at all. I’ve never once said or implied that he could swap mid round and hit it perfectly. Or swap today and be good. That’s what he’s doing now. Lol .. swapping around and spraying it.

 

You know full well that it was understood that practice and work went along with any swap, including going back. . I’ve even prefaced my comments with It several times. But the difference is it’s a known pattern vs a new one. The old one is still there. Just have to retrain for the old takeaway and setup then finish will follow.

 

Come on. What are we arguing about here ? I say his swing sucks. You say it sucks ... we agree. We also have to agree that the old one was good. Or at least much better. Yes ? So what ? I say he can go back and you think that’s impossible ? I don’t think you do. So?

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> > > > >

> > > > > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> > > > >

> > > > > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

> > > >

> > > > Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

> > > >

> > > > And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

> > >

> > > When I was younger I used to have a nice upright swing like Tom Watson. Now that I'm older, my swing is closer to Mark O'Meara; just nowhere near as powerful or athletic in both cases.

> > > Sometimes you can't go back.

> >

> > That's all I've been saying. Yes, he can attempt to relearn a swing similar to his old swing but he cannot just wake up one morning and think "gee, I'll just swing like I used to and all will be better". A few posts have tried to make it sound as simple as that but it doesn't work that way

>

> Not true at all. I’ve never once said or implied that he could swap mid round and hit it perfectly. Or swap today and be good. That’s what he’s doing now. Lol .. swapping around and spraying it.

>

> You know full well that it was understood that practice and work went along with any swap, including going back. . I’ve even prefaced my comments with It several times. But the difference is it’s a known pattern vs a new one. The old one is still there. Just have to retrain for the old takeaway and setup then finish will follow.

>

> Come on. What are we arguing about here ? I say his swing sucks. You say it sucks ... we agree. We also have to agree that the old one was good. Or at least much better. Yes ? So what ? I say he can go back and you think that’s impossible ? I don’t think you do. So?

 

So, all that matters is watching future events.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @gvogel said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > > > > > > > -4 thru 10 holes today.

> > > > > > > > > He can go on a birdie run with the best of them, but then suddenly double or triple bogey. What about his game makes him so volatile?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > That 2 way miss with everything. The swing change.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Proves that his putter and shortgame is still top tier. All he has to do is reset and eliminate one side of the course. It’s that simple.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Easy peasy? Simple?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This is a guy shooting 3 rounds in the 60s in a major with a lame duck swing change. He has the ability and talent to decide.... Yes decide to go back. Tiger woods is on video demonstrating each of his prior swings at several clinics. Explaining each difference. Once you learn a motor pattern like that through hundreds of thousands of swings , especially one that’s during your actual rise up in the game , you don’t forget it. I’m sorry. But he can go back. Now it may take months to gain confidence, but he knows the difference between whAt he used to do and what he’s trying to do.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Easy as I used it is meaning relatively easy compared to what he’s doing now. ( you knew that )

> > > > >

> > > > > Tiger may have been able to demonstrate differences in his swings but he could not just "go back" to a previous swing. Part of the issue for Spieth just going back is his body has changed. He is stronger, and a bit thicker, than he was in 2015.

> > > > >

> > > > > And no, I don't think it would be easier for him to go back than to move forward. We amateurs seem to think it's easy to bounce between swings. But seem on video what you think you changed really is just what you were feeling during the swing, which did not change. I don't recall the number but Woods spoke often of how long it took to make real changes.

> > > >

> > > > When I was younger I used to have a nice upright swing like Tom Watson. Now that I'm older, my swing is closer to Mark O'Meara; just nowhere near as powerful or athletic in both cases.

> > > > Sometimes you can't go back.

> > >

> > > That's all I've been saying. Yes, he can attempt to relearn a swing similar to his old swing but he cannot just wake up one morning and think "gee, I'll just swing like I used to and all will be better". A few posts have tried to make it sound as simple as that but it doesn't work that way

> >

> > Not true at all. I’ve never once said or implied that he could swap mid round and hit it perfectly. Or swap today and be good. That’s what he’s doing now. Lol .. swapping around and spraying it.

> >

> > You know full well that it was understood that practice and work went along with any swap, including going back. . I’ve even prefaced my comments with It several times. But the difference is it’s a known pattern vs a new one. The old one is still there. Just have to retrain for the old takeaway and setup then finish will follow.

> >

> > Come on. What are we arguing about here ? I say his swing sucks. You say it sucks ... we agree. We also have to agree that the old one was good. Or at least much better. Yes ? So what ? I say he can go back and you think that’s impossible ? I don’t think you do. So?

>

> So, all that matters is watching future events.

 

Lol. Yes and no. We learn more from the past. But sure as for his swing future is all that will reveal more news. So I don’t know. I guess it depends on what you’re looking for. If I were him and looking to win , I’d watch the 2015 season on loop and practice that swing. Period. But thats just me.

[SCalGolfer]

Before Jordan got a hair transplant he was dominant. Something about the surgery threw him off. He will still be good again the question is when.

[straightshot7]

Frank Nobilo just said there is clearly a mental component with Spieth's struggles, since he gets 2 shots worse on Saturday compared to Friday. Nick Faldo agreed with him.

 

This is the same thing a few of us have been saying in this thread. At least we have a HOFer who agrees. ?

[gvogel]

> @straightshot7 said:

> Frank Nobilo just said there is clearly a mental component with Spieth's struggles, since he gets 2 shots worse on Saturday compared to Friday. Nick Faldo agreed with him.

>

> This is the same thing a few of us have been saying in this thread. At least we have a HOFer who agrees. ?

 

Started with a double today, so there's 2 strokes worse right on the first hole.

[Chris52]

And gone double bogey on a saturday again lol.Think he will be remembered as a flash- in -a -pan golfer 2 or 3 amazing seasons then just an average tour player with the occasional challenge for the win and a one or two top 10 finishes a season.

 

Miles behind Brooks now.

 

[Pent08]

Yikes, like clockwork.

[doublepar93]

Having a typical YJS Saturday today.

[caniac6]

Just missed the secondary cut.

[gvogel]

> @caniac6 said:

> Just missed the secondary cut.

 

Painful.

[dcfas]

Haven’t been paying much attention to Spieth’s troubles. Is the main issue the driver?

[Bye]

Just looking back at some old footage, his posture looks terrible at the moment, much more in his heels than before.

[Dave230]

Sometimes I think the 2017 Open was a sign of things to come for Spieth, but not in the way we thought. His brilliant bogey on that famous hole may have clinched another major for him but the fact he could hit a 40 yard slice under pressure was more to the point. Every time he tees it up these days he's in danger of one of those horribly wayward ones and you just can't score when you're putting double bogeys on the card regularly even if you putt lights up. Might even survive one round or two rounds without one but never 72 holes and he won't win another tournament until he sorts his driving out.

[Titleist_PT23]

Had to scroll down quite a ways to find him. A disappointment, but it seems like the duct tape and wire finally burst again.

[MountainGoat]

When you can't make the cut at the Wyndham, you've got problems. Pretty soon he'll be paired with Tony Romo at Puntacana.

 

[gvogel]

> @Dave230 said:

> Sometimes I think the 2017 Open was a sign of things to come for Spieth, but not in the way we thought. His brilliant bogey on that famous hole may have clinched another major for him but the fact he could hit a 40 yard slice under pressure was more to the point. Every time he tees it up these days he's in danger of one of those horribly wayward ones and you just can't score when you're putting double bogeys on the card regularly even if you putt lights up. Might even survive one round or two rounds without one but never 72 holes and he won't win another tournament until he sorts his driving out.

 

This is telling. If the practice area were out of bounds, as it should have been, Matt Kuchar wins that Open Championship.

 

Jordan found out for the first two rounds at the Wyndham that he can still putt. The big question mark is whether he can keep his driver on the planet. At the moment, the answer is: no.

 

Edit: Jordan has a very awkward driver swing. Most of us can see it for what it is; the guys who wanted Jordan to be the next Tiger cannot see it for what it is. His awkward swing start with an awkward grip (not my words, Tom Watson's words), and ends in an awkward chicken swing follow through. I think that his swing is his signature, and will never change much.

 

If you want to worship Jordan, you do so at your own peril.

[spk7]

I think it’s going to be a while before we see Jordan wins again

[grm24]

> @MountainGoat said:

> When you can't make the cut at the Wyndham, you've got problems. Pretty soon he'll be paired with Tony Romo at Puntacana.

>

He actually made the 36 hole cut. Didn't make the 54 hole secondary cut. Still got paid and earned FEC points.