What up with Jordan?

[bladehunter]

> @Pent08 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> >

> > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

>

> I would say water is wet, but I'm betting you'd disagree.

 

Nope. I just don’t know what the point is to stating the universally understood obvious.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Pent08 said:

> > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> >

> > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

>

> The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

 

Lol. So which is it. Is he a “ top player” or doomed and on his way out ? How can it continue to be both when it suits the argument ? Not necessarily shoot that at you only. But at the Jordan bashing in general. I’m not entirely sure what your personal stance is.

[denvergolf]

> @bladehunter said:

> This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

>

> It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

He’s always had a big miss to the right…

 

[straightshot7]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @Pent08 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> > >

> > > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

> >

> > I would say water is wet, but I'm betting you'd disagree.

>

> Nope. I just don’t know what the point is to stating the universally understood obvious.

 

Mmmm he could have been saying that he thinks Spieth's struggles are due to his mental game as opposed to his swing or physical challenges.

 

I don't think he was saying that golf is a mental game in general...

[bladehunter]

> @denvergolf said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> >

> > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

> He’s always had a big miss to the right…

>

 

Yep. Now a huge hook too. As exhibited alll day today. That’s the point. Used to have control and know where he’d miss.

[bladehunter]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> > > >

> > > > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

> > >

> > > I would say water is wet, but I'm betting you'd disagree.

> >

> > Nope. I just don’t know what the point is to stating the universally understood obvious.

>

> Mmmm he could have been saying that he thinks Spieth's struggles are due to his mental game as opposed to his swing or physical challenges.

>

> I don't think he was saying that golf is a mental game in general...

 

Maybe so. And if that’s true I misunderstood... my apologies.

 

But I’d disagree with that. I think this is entirely predicated on this swing change. It’s become mental hurdles. But. If the swing went back to his normal. The mental load would vanish.

[lowheel]

> @Pent08 said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Pent08 said:

> > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> >

> > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

>

> Gotcha. If the change in scores is significant, my omission wasn't purposeful. I didn't watch the coverage.

 

No worries man, I wasn’t bashing your post just pointing out the earlier scores brought the average down. Take care

[lowheel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Pent08 said:

> > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> >

> > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

>

> The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

 

 

Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

[Titleist_PT23]

> @lowheel said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @lowheel said:

> > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > >

> > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> >

> > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

>

>

> Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

 

The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

 

But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

 

I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

[lowheel]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > >

> > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > >

> > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> >

> >

> > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

>

> The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

>

> But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

>

> I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

 

Thats fair. Im not repeating his record and have clearly said that the swing changes havent appeared to help him and hes somehow trying a hybrid swing between old and new. He hasnt won in almost 2 years however the flashes are there.The highs are high but the lows are very low, thats the difference. Hes tried to scrap out rounds like he used too and does just not as often. if i didnt see these flashes I would be worried. Im giving him the benefit of the doubt because at the majors hes constantly showing up which shows his mental toughness. its time for him to get back that toughness week in week out. i think his golf IQ is very rare and extremely special so I believe the results come back

[lowheel]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> > > > >

> > > > > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

> > > >

> > > > I would say water is wet, but I'm betting you'd disagree.

> > >

> > > Nope. I just don’t know what the point is to stating the universally understood obvious.

> >

> > Mmmm he could have been saying that he thinks Spieth's struggles are due to his mental game as opposed to his swing or physical challenges.

> >

> > I don't think he was saying that golf is a mental game in general...

>

> Maybe so. And if that’s true I misunderstood... my apologies.

>

> But I’d disagree with that. I think this is entirely predicated on this swing change. It’s become mental hurdles. But. If the swing went back to his normal. The mental load would vanish.

 

Id have to agree but hes his own man and he either lives with it and gives it another 6 months or says f it and goes back to what feels natural. His iron play which was always a strength has been lacking during his struggles. Ask any tour player what do you prefer? spotty driver or spotty irons? 100% answer spotty drivers. You cant have mediocre iron play even if youre an elite putter. Ask tiger what he prefers

[Shilgy]

> @lowheel said:

> > @Shilgy said:

> > > @lowheel said:

> > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > >

> > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> >

> > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

>

>

> Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

 

Ok, you missed my point or I was not clear. He was right there in contention and let it slip away.... Again.

You say Jordan is "a great". And based on his numbers perhaps he is. Or will be considered one. IMO to be considered one he definitely will need to get it going again. 11 wins is not a great of the game. And it's happened before. Look up Ralph Guldahl. He won 16 times and 3 majors relatively young and disappeared. I'm sure the posts on wrx back then were full of "he's close" type of comments.

Right now he is a player that had an incredibly hot start to his career. One of the best starts of all time in fact. Very similar to both Tiger and Guldahl.

Which one will his career turn out to be like is the question. Only time will tell.

[bladehunter]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > >

> > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > >

> > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> >

> >

> > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

>

> The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

>

> But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

>

> I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

 

Another statement of the obvious. To what point ? I don’t think anyone recently has seriously stated that he is actually in contention to win. Certainly not me. I’ve in fact criticized the two way miss swing he has going ,to no end. The feathers get ruffled and things get sidetracked only when the actual hate joins the thread. The people who come in with the “ lucky guy ran out of luck “ “ flukes never last “ “ chicken wing couldn’t possibly work forever “ and my favorite...” that hot putter couldn’t last forever. “ as if that’s why he was winning. Being top 3 in approach and one of the best short games ever to pay the game had nothing to do with it. Nonsense like that.

[tsecor]

I googled "Is water wet?" [scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=6097](http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=6097 "scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=6097")

Question Date: 2018-01-04

 

Answer 1:

 

Being a liquid, water is not itself wet, but can make other solid materials wet.

Wetness is the ability of a liquid to adhere to the surface of a solid, so when we say that something is wet, we mean that the liquid is sticking to the surface of a material.

 

> @Pent08 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> >

> > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

>

> I would say water is wet, but I'm betting you'd disagree.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > >

> > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > >

> > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> >

> >

> > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

>

> Ok, you missed my point or I was not clear. He was right there in contention and let it slip away.... Again.

> You say Jordan is "a great". And based on his numbers perhaps he is. Or will be considered one. IMO to be considered one he definitely will need to get it going again. 11 wins is not a great of the game. And it's happened before. Look up Ralph Guldahl. He won 16 times and 3 majors relatively young and disappeared. I'm sure the posts on wrx back then were full of "he's close" type of comments.

> Right now he is a player that had an incredibly hot start to his career. One of the best starts of all time in fact. Very similar to both Tiger and Guldahl.

> Which one will his career turn out to be like is the question. Only time will tell.

 

 

Absolutely. If he never does another thing you’re correct. But as of this moment , his record is still better than the world #1 by a long shot. So let’s wait until guys his age pass him to say he’s finished. Nobody knows what will happen. But I’d bet on a light bulb realization and a McCormick firing before he quits the game.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @lowheel said:

> > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > > >

> > > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > > >

> > > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> > >

> > >

> > > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> > I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

> >

> > The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

> >

> > But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

> >

> > I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

>

> Another statement of the obvious. To what point ?

The fans get all defensive when anyone says something negative about him. Usually it goes something like "he'll be fine" or "look at what he's done" as if that means with certainty he'll get back to where he was. For someone that is supposedly so great, his game hasn't reflected that for some time. To me, either a) he's an all-time great that is really really off right now (i.e. just say his game sucks vs where you think he should be right now vs. excuse after excuse) or b) he's a good tour player that happened to have a hot streak to start (but now outside of the super elite players).

[lopey986]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @denvergolf said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> > >

> > > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

> > He’s always had a big miss to the right…

> >

>

> Yep. Now a huge hook too. As exhibited alll day today. That’s the point. Used to have control and know where he’d miss.

 

Yep, 2 way miss is killing him. Rebuilding his swing to make it "look" better (getting rid of the chicken wing) was a bad move. At least before it was functionally ugly, now he's got a normal looking swing but he's playing like a good tour pro.

[bladehunter]

> @agolf1 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > > > >

> > > > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> > > I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

> > >

> > > The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

> > >

> > > But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

> > >

> > > I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

> >

> > Another statement of the obvious. To what point ?

> The fans get all defensive when anyone says something negative about him. Usually it goes something like "he'll be fine" or "look at what he's done" as if that means with certainty he'll get back to where he was. For someone that is supposedly so great, his game hasn't reflected that for some time. To me, either a) he's an all-time great that is really really off right now (i.e. just say his game sucks vs where you think he should be right now vs. excuse after excuse) or b) he's a good tour player that happened to have a hot streak to start (but now outside of the super elite players).

 

See. We agree. Neither of us knows the future. Except that we have past predictors to consider. Normal pga tour pros don’t win 3 majors and have as many top 10s in majors as he does. If I read correctly he’s 2 Nd to only brooks in major record since 2014. Hmmm. Don’t see Brian Harmon doing that. We shall see.

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @agolf1 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> > > > I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

> > > >

> > > > The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

> > > >

> > > > But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

> > > >

> > > > I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

> > >

> > > Another statement of the obvious. To what point ?

> > The fans get all defensive when anyone says something negative about him. Usually it goes something like "he'll be fine" or "look at what he's done" as if that means with certainty he'll get back to where he was. For someone that is supposedly so great, his game hasn't reflected that for some time. To me, either a) he's an all-time great that is really really off right now (i.e. just say his game sucks vs where you think he should be right now vs. excuse after excuse) or b) he's a good tour player that happened to have a hot streak to start (but now outside of the super elite players).

>

> See. We agree. Neither of us knows the future. Except that we have past predictors to consider. Normal pga tour pros don’t win 3 majors and have as many top 10s in majors as he does. If I read correctly he’s 2 Nd to only brooks in major record since 2014. Hmmm. Don’t see Brian Harmon doing that. We shall see.

 

Where does a Brian Harman(not Harmon) come into the picture?

I would bet Spieth is not in the running for best record in the majors the last two years. Would you prefer a Padraig Harrington comparison? Like Spieth Harrington win three majors in a short time frame. And Harrington had a longer stint in the top 10 of the OWGR than did Spieth**. Or DJ for that matter.

** Yes, Spieth still has time to catch him but Harrington still has spent 86 more weeks in the top 10 than Jordan and 31 more than DJ. Right now Spieth is #37. One spot ahead of Eddie Pepperell.

[Man_O_War]

right hand grip.. that's his problem.

[bladehunter]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @agolf1 said:

> > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > > > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

> > > > > I've been fairly neutral on Spieth for as long as these threads have been going on.

> > > > >

> > > > > The haters wanted him to get ready to caddie for Smylie, then there was a photoshopped ad about him becoming a used car or insurance salesman, then he gets blasted for not shooting low 60s in the final round at Memorial. Yes, kind of silly.

> > > > >

> > > > > But the Spieth fans have been singing the same tune for a year now. First, it was denial but I think it's been shown to be more than a few weeks slump. Second, his record is great. He'd be in the HoF if he never makes another cut. But if we are just going to repeat his record (which is amazing), then we also have to accept that he shouldn't be winless for 2 years and a T20 in a major is not why he plays (same reason Rory's Masters was a flop).

> > > > >

> > > > > I'd agree that having a chance in 4 majors in the last two years with far from your "A" game is impressive. One could even say there have been some positive signs of late (he does seem to have bottomed). But, touting these positive steps just shows a) how bad things were and b) it's still not fixed to the level that people think of when they just repeat his track record.

> > > >

> > > > Another statement of the obvious. To what point ?

> > > The fans get all defensive when anyone says something negative about him. Usually it goes something like "he'll be fine" or "look at what he's done" as if that means with certainty he'll get back to where he was. For someone that is supposedly so great, his game hasn't reflected that for some time. To me, either a) he's an all-time great that is really really off right now (i.e. just say his game sucks vs where you think he should be right now vs. excuse after excuse) or b) he's a good tour player that happened to have a hot streak to start (but now outside of the super elite players).

> >

> > See. We agree. Neither of us knows the future. Except that we have past predictors to consider. Normal pga tour pros don’t win 3 majors and have as many top 10s in majors as he does. If I read correctly he’s 2 Nd to only brooks in major record since 2014. Hmmm. Don’t see Brian Harmon doing that. We shall see.

>

> Where does a Brian Harman(not Harmon) come into the picture?

> I would bet Spieth is not in the running for best record in the majors the last two years. Would you prefer a Padraig Harrington comparison? Like Spieth Harrington win three majors in a short time frame. And Harrington had a longer stint in the top 10 of the OWGR than did Spieth**. Or DJ for that matter.

> ** Yes, Spieth still has time to catch him but Harrington still has spent 86 more weeks in the top 10 than Jordan and 31 more than DJ. Right now Spieth is #37. One spot ahead of Eddie Pepperell.

 

lol. Come on man. I took his whole career. Sure you can parse anything down to say anything. Why don’t we just compare the last major? Of course that makes Shane Lowery the current active goat right ? Lol.

 

But this is always a silly argument, one that I have a hard time abstaining from. So let’s just agree that nobody knows and we shall see.

[gvogel]

> @Man_O_War said:

> right hand grip.. that's his problem.

 

Tom Watson said his grip might be a problem.

[Man_O_War]

> @gvogel said:

> > @Man_O_War said:

> > right hand grip.. that's his problem.

>

> Tom Watson said his grip might be a problem.

 

it looks like a fist at set up and brings his arm high. but what do i know. he has millions in the bank. I certainly do not

[bladehunter]

> @Man_O_War said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @Man_O_War said:

> > > right hand grip.. that's his problem.

> >

> > Tom Watson said his grip might be a problem.

>

> it looks like a fist at set up and brings his arm high. but what do i know. he has millions in the bank. I certainly do not

 

Have to remember though. He’s a natural lefty. I suspect his right hand is rather passive. This is how I am. Major left hand dominant in my swing. Adding right hand just asks for the flip hooks we see with him now. I do not know that is the case. Just spit balling.

[gvogel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > >

> > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > >

> > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> >

> >

> > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

>

> Ok, you missed my point or I was not clear. He was right there in contention and let it slip away.... Again.

> You say Jordan is "a great". And based on his numbers perhaps he is. Or will be considered one. IMO to be considered one he definitely will need to get it going again. 11 wins is not a great of the game. And it's happened before. Look up Ralph Guldahl. He won 16 times and 3 majors relatively young and disappeared. I'm sure the posts on wrx back then were full of "he's close" type of comments.

> Right now he is a player that had an incredibly hot start to his career. One of the best starts of all time in fact. Very similar to both Tiger and Guldahl.

> Which one will his career turn out to be like is the question. Only time will tell.

 

My somewhat educated opinion is that it will be more Guldahl than Woods. That's based on following pro golf since the 1970's.

 

I sure am glad that Jordan gets a lot of support around here. He's going to need it.

[scores]

Does not hit as far as Phil so his off line tee shots are killing him. Golf is tough

[thevaporz]

> @tsecor said:

> I googled "Is water wet?" [scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=6097](http://scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=6097 "scienceline.ucsb.edu/getkey.php?key=6097")

> Question Date: 2018-01-04

>

> Answer 1:

>

> Being a liquid, water is not itself wet, but can make other solid materials wet.

> Wetness is the ability of a liquid to adhere to the surface of a solid, so when we say that something is wet, we mean that the liquid is sticking to the surface of a material.

>

> > @Pent08 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > This game is and always will be a mental battle. Why not just say water is wet.

> > >

> > > It’s that **** hip bend / flat swing change. Never had a huge hook and a wipe right miss before.

> >

> > I would say water is wet, but I'm betting you'd disagree.

>

>

 

[thevaporz]

.

[lowheel]

> @Shilgy said:

> > @lowheel said:

> > > @Shilgy said:

> > > > @lowheel said:

> > > > > @Pent08 said:

> > > > > On a Sunday when the course average was 73, Spieth shot 77. Still a mental battle.

> > > >

> > > > a little misleading, the last 20 groups was higher than that. Rose and others who showed better form than spieth got swallowed up as well. Lots of 77-78-79s from others. it happens, he was never winning this, too far back

> > >

> > > The fact that he was not going to win does not defend a t20 for a “top” player. Rose , Holmes, Kuchar were similar, yes. A “great” is not placated by others suffering similar fates.

> >

> >

> > Holy smokes! It happens to everyone in those conditions. Take a breath Shil. Your personal feelings on Jordan are very clear. He is a great and today didn’t change that. It feels like you draw joy from his struggles. I personally thought he would shoot 3-4 over today judging by the conditions and still top 10. No biggie. As I said he was too far back. When elite ball strikers like Stenson and Rose are going 78-79 maybe some perspective is needed. Maybe that’s just me. Remember last year? What happened to the 3 coleaders on Sunday?

>

> Ok, you missed my point or I was not clear. He was right there in contention and let it slip away.... Again.

> You say Jordan is "a great". And based on his numbers perhaps he is. Or will be considered one. IMO to be considered one he definitely will need to get it going again. 11 wins is not a great of the game. And it's happened before. Look up Ralph Guldahl. He won 16 times and 3 majors relatively young and disappeared. I'm sure the posts on wrx back then were full of "he's close" type of comments.

> Right now he is a player that had an incredibly hot start to his career. One of the best starts of all time in fact. Very similar to both Tiger and Guldahl.

> Which one will his career turn out to be like is the question. Only time will tell.

 

nah i didnt miss your point. If you have to go back to pre world war 2 Ralph Guldahl to find an example thatfits your narrative maybe its time to make a step back. He was never going to be Woods so thats a non starter. If youre willing to believe that a 25 yaer old Spieth is done, have at it. He was never in contention this week enough to threaten to win. Last year was more disappointing as he was tied for the lead with brutal conditions that got everyone to fold including Tiger.... this year he would have to shoot 63 to get into a playoff when the best round of the last 15 groups was 69... lets get real here.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @lowheel said:

> nah i didnt miss your point. If you have to go back to pre world war 2 Ralph Guldahl to find an example thatfits your narrative maybe its time to make a step back. He was never going to be Woods so thats a non starter. If youre willing to believe that a 25 yaer old Spieth is done, have at it. He was never in contention this week enough to threaten to win. Last year was more disappointing as he was tied for the lead with brutal conditions that got everyone to fold including Tiger.... this year he would have to shoot 63 to get into a playoff when the best round of the last 15 groups was 69... lets get real here.

I think the hard part with Spieth (and Rory) is that they won big so quickly. There are numerous examples of guys that got hot for a handful of years in the majors and won 10+ other tournaments, but didn't win another major or weren't top 5 players for 10+ years (not that many are/were). But it usually happened much later.

 

I've been wondering more and more whether these two will pass Phil on the all-time ranks by the time they are done. Neither are likely to match the total PGA wins, although both have a reasonable shot at passing him in majors, and the rankings could be further clouded if one or both of them grabs the Career Slam with only 1 more major.

 

Unfortunately, Spieth's round on Saturday took him out of both the PGA and Open this year. It would have been a long shot to win in either case, but he seemed to crap out when things were a bit tighter. I don't think its a sign of anything for the future but rather it still seems like he's not fully there with whatever he's doing with this swing.