What up with Jordan?

[straightshot7]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> I get what you're saying about trying to be objective, but I dont see why you or any of his other fans would hold him to this impossible standard. He doesnt have the raw tools to dominate this sport. When his game isn't 100% on, hes just above average which is what hes been. So I just dont see why anyone would think not winning in a 2year stretch is just plain bad. Keep in mind, I'm ignoring his own expectations on himself.

 

**2013** (Age 20): **1 win**, #7 FedEx Cup pts, $3,879,820 on course earnings

**2014** (Age 21): **0 wins**, #15 FedEx Cup, $4,342,748

**2015** (Age 22): **5 wins including 2 majors** - #1 in Fedex Cup, $12,030,465

**2016** (Age 23): **2 wins**, #9 in FedEx Cup, $5,538,470

**2017** (Age 24): **3 wins including 1 major**, #2 in Fedex Cup, $9,433,033

**2018** (Age 25): **0 wins**, #31 in FedEx, $2,793,536

so far **2019** (Almost 26): **0 wins**, #67 in FedEx, $1,537,764

 

Historically, pro golfers don't have just a 2-3 year prime and then decline after age 24.

 

Spieth's career so far looks like a pyramid. And everything from his stats, to his results, to his body language, to his own comments prove that's he objectively much worse of a golfer than he was 2-3 years ago. So the "what's wrong and what's causing him to not play well" question is logical.

 

And yes, compared to his own results in the previous 5 years, going 2 years without a win is bad or substandard.

 

[PowerFade36]

Dont get me wrong, I dont think hes playing well or good or his best. But with Koepka and Woods playing the way they are this year I dont see anything close to a repeat of 2015-2017 results-wise for Jordan. I wouldn't call his game bad though, not when he finished 3rd in a recent Major, but that's just me.

 

Also, 2015-2017, who were his main competitors? Jason Day? Rory? Dustin Johnson? These guys have some wins over the past 2 years, but 0 Majors too.

[straightshot7]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> Dont get me wrong, I dont think hes playing well or good or his best. But with Koepka and Woods playing the way they are this year I dont see anything close to a repeat of 2015-2017 results-wise for Jordan. I wouldn't call his game bad though, not when he finished 3rd in a recent Major, but that's just me.

 

It's bad compared to what he once was.

 

Scoring Average:

 

2013: 69.668, 9th on Tour

2014: 69.946, 14th on Tour

2015: 68.938, 1st on Tour

2016: 69.520, 4th on Tour

2017: 68.846, 1st on Tour

2018: 69.904, 18th on Tour

2019: 70.542, 38th on Tour

 

What stat do you want to look at...they all say the same thing. Whether we label it bad or mediocre or whatever, it doesn't matter.

 

Objectively, he's gotten worse. His scoring average is over 70 for the first time and by a big margin. All anyone is asking is why and if/when it will improve.

 

[PowerFade36]

1 to 1.5 strokes separates from #1 to "horribly bad" I'm not concerned about if he will improve from where he is. I'm pretty confident he will. But his competition has gotten better since 2015 and u guys expecting 5 wins and several majors I think will never be satisfied.

[straightshot7]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> 1 to 1.5 strokes separates from #1 to "horribly bad" I'm not concerned about if he will improve from where he is. I'm pretty confident he will. But his competition has gotten better since 2015 and u guys expecting 5 wins and several majors I think will never be satisfied.

 

No one said "horribly bad" and no one said they were expecting "5 wins and several majors". You're just making that stuff up.

 

All I'm claiming is that he's gotten significantly worse since 2017.

[PowerFade36]

 

Ok but post 990 u said his swing "gone drastically wrong" so what's the difference between that and horribly bad? Really. We get it, hes worse. The hyperbole seems totally unnecessary though

[straightshot7]

> @PowerFade36 said:

>

> Ok but post 990 u said his swing "gone drastically wrong" so what's the difference between that and horribly bad? Really. We get it, hes worse. The hyperbole seems totally unnecessary though

 

Yeah and I was clearly talking about his swing and attempt at swing changes. Which is obviously different than what we were just discussing, which was his results and overall performance.

 

So you're moving the goal posts and you must just want to argue.

 

You're not really saying anything so I'm not sure what your point is. We agree, he's worse.

 

Talking about his swing was diving into the topic of why he's worse. Which is a separate topic.

 

 

[PowerFade36]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @PowerFade36 said:

> >

> > Ok but post 990 u said his swing "gone drastically wrong" so what's the difference between that and horribly bad? Really. We get it, hes worse. The hyperbole seems totally unnecessary though

>

> Yeah and I was clearly talking about his swing and attempt at swing changes. Which is obviously different than what we were just discussing, which was his results and overall performance.

>

> So you're moving the goal posts and you must just want to argue.

>

> You're not really saying anything so I'm not sure what your point is. We agree, he's worse.

>

> Talking about his swing was diving into the topic of why he's worse. Which is a separate topic.

>

>

 

My point is your hyperbole is overblowing things. The man finished 3rd in one of the most recent majors. In a time when Koepka and Woods are playing at a level no one was playing at in 2015 to 2017 when Spieth was "dominating"

[cdnglf]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > >

> > > Ok but post 990 u said his swing "gone drastically wrong" so what's the difference between that and horribly bad? Really. We get it, hes worse. The hyperbole seems totally unnecessary though

> >

> > Yeah and I was clearly talking about his swing and attempt at swing changes. Which is obviously different than what we were just discussing, which was his results and overall performance.

> >

> > So you're moving the goal posts and you must just want to argue.

> >

> > You're not really saying anything so I'm not sure what your point is. We agree, he's worse.

> >

> > Talking about his swing was diving into the topic of why he's worse. Which is a separate topic.

> >

> >

>

> My point is your hyperbole is overblowing things. The man finished 3rd in one of the most recent majors. In a time when Koepka and Woods are playing at a level no one was playing at in 2015 to 2017 when Spieth was "dominating"

 


 

[Pent08]

People are very defensive when it comes to Spieth. Tread lightly in here folks.

[rafal]

Everyone agree with powerfade so he stops derailing the thread.

[PowerFade36]

Lol, ok point taken. Back on topic: his Driver off the tee has been inconsistent. I feel hes been putting additional pressure on himself off the tee, leading to over-tension. This is the first area that I would try to improve, from a consistency standpoint, if I were part of his team. I think the rest of his game would fall into place.

[gvogel]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> Lol, ok point taken. **Back on topic: his Driver off the tee has been inconsistent. I feel hes been putting additional pressure on himself off the tee, leading to over-tension. This is the first area that I would try to improve, from a consistency standpoint, **if I were part of his team. I think the rest of his game would fall into place.

 

Easier said than done.

[oz dee cee]

> @rafal said:

> > @"oz dee cee" said:

> > I lost $20 on him when he missed the cut. ?

> > Sort it Jordan! Please! ?

>

> Refer to Ferguson posts before putting any more money on the Spieths.

 

You live and learn...

 

 

[PowerFade36]

> @gvogel said:

> > @PowerFade36 said:

> > Lol, ok point taken. **Back on topic: his Driver off the tee has been inconsistent. I feel hes been putting additional pressure on himself off the tee, leading to over-tension. This is the first area that I would try to improve, from a consistency standpoint, **if I were part of his team. I think the rest of his game would fall into place.

>

> Easier said than done.

What isn't?

[bladehunter]

> @Pent08 said:

> People are very defensive when it comes to Spieth. Tread lightly in here folks.

 

No more so than in the Rory thread

[bladehunter]

> @rafal said:

> Everyone agree with powerfade so he stops derailing the thread.

 

 

To be fair this thread hasn’t been on the rails since the first page. It’s just remained civil so it’s stayed open. A testament to 99% of the people who’ve posted in it.

[golfnoob25]

I think Spieth over achieved. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with his game. It's very hard to stay at the top.

 

We've seen a pattern of guys getting hot and fading. Not all with equal success to be fair. They always bounce back somewhat

 

Dustin Johnson

Justin Rose

Jason Day

Rory (making a comeback?)

Justin Thomas (injury?)

 

Go further back in history you'll see it too

[gvogel]

> @golfnoob25 said:

> I think Spieth over achieved. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with his game. It's very hard to stay at the top.

>

> We've seen a pattern of guys getting hot and fading. Not all with equal success to be fair. They always bounce back somewhat

>

> Dustin Johnson

> Justin Rose

> Jason Day

> Rory (making a comeback?)

> Justin Thomas (injury?)

>

> Go further back in history you'll see it too

 

But then there is Bill Rogers who won 4 times in 1981, including the Open Championship, had an honest shot at the US Open in 1982, won the US F&G in 1983, and that was that. No comeback.

[bladehunter]

> @gvogel said:

> > @golfnoob25 said:

> > I think Spieth over achieved. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with his game. It's very hard to stay at the top.

> >

> > We've seen a pattern of guys getting hot and fading. Not all with equal success to be fair. They always bounce back somewhat

> >

> > Dustin Johnson

> > Justin Rose

> > Jason Day

> > Rory (making a comeback?)

> > Justin Thomas (injury?)

> >

> > Go further back in history you'll see it too

>

> But then there is Bill Rogers who won 4 times in 1981, including the Open Championship, had an honest shot at the US Open in 1982, won the US F&G in 1983, and that was that. No comeback.

 

That was 1982. He had fuzzy and craig stadler type competition. Not an even comparison. 3 majors today is worth 5 in the 80s.

[thevaporz]

I'm waiting for Spieth's Munson comeback vs. Bill Murray at Pebble ATT ProAm in five years.

 


 

[tsecor]

So what's Spieths outlook for the remainder of the season? Anyone think he will get a win this year?

[straightshot7]

> @tsecor said:

> So what's Spieths outlook for the remainder of the season? Anyone think he will get a win this year?

 

Depends. Is he playing the John Deere or Barracuda?

[Titleist_PT23]

> @golfnoob25 said:

> I think Spieth over achieved. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with his game. It's very hard to stay at the top.

>

> We've seen a pattern of guys getting hot and fading. Not all with equal success to be fair. They always bounce back somewhat

>

> Dustin Johnson

> Justin Rose

> Jason Day

> Rory (making a comeback?)

> Justin Thomas (injury?)

>

> Go further back in history you'll see it too

No doubt on people coming and going.

 

DJ's string of 3+ wins for three years in a row (2016-2018) is pretty amazing in recent times. He could have booked 3 wins this year too, although he had bad final rounds twice (he was probably the favorite after 54 holes). Will be interesting to see if he can win at least another time this year. Of all the people that have been at the top since Tiger dropped off in 2013 (or so), he's the one that has stayed in top form (#1-#3) the longest. Of course, everyone wants more majors out of him, as he still would rank behind Rory, Spieth, Brooks for many.

[grm24]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > So what's Spieths outlook for the remainder of the season? Anyone think he will get a win this year?

>

> Depends. Is he playing the John Deere or Barracuda?

 

YJS stated in an article on Golf Digest website he may ad the John Deere. Not sure if you are being serious about the Barracuda but he can not play an opposite event when eligible for the WGC event in Memphis.

[straightshot7]

> @grm24 said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > > @tsecor said:

> > > So what's Spieths outlook for the remainder of the season? Anyone think he will get a win this year?

> >

> > Depends. Is he playing the John Deere or Barracuda?

>

> YJS stated in an article on Golf Digest website he may ad the John Deere. Not sure if you are being serious about the Barracuda but he can not play an opposite event when eligible for the WGC event in Memphis.

 

John Deere it is then. Isn't that where he got his first win? Maybe it can be slump buster for him. It's one of the weakest fields on Tour.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > So what's Spieths outlook for the remainder of the season? Anyone think he will get a win this year?

>

> Depends. Is he playing the John Deere or Barracuda?

The Barracuda is the same week as the Memphis WGC. I guess he could skip the Open too, and go for a hat-trick of Deere-Barbasol-Barracuda.

 

It is amazing how fast the season goes. There's really 4-5 tournaments left for the top players; Open, Memphis WGC (interested to see who shows), the two playoff events, and the tour championship if you make it. I'm not sure if he'll book a win or not.

 

[grm24]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @grm24 said:

> > > @straightshot7 said:

> > > > @tsecor said:

> > > > So what's Spieths outlook for the remainder of the season? Anyone think he will get a win this year?

> > >

> > > Depends. Is he playing the John Deere or Barracuda?

> >

> > YJS stated in an article on Golf Digest website he may ad the John Deere. Not sure if you are being serious about the Barracuda but he can not play an opposite event when eligible for the WGC event in Memphis.

>

> John Deere it is then. Isn't that where he got his first win? Maybe it can be slump buster for him. It's one of the weakest fields on Tour.

Yes his first win was there. He also won the JD a couple of seasons later.

[rafal]

What?! A Win? Are you kiddin' me? I just hope he can make a cut!

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @golfnoob25 said:

> > > I think Spieth over achieved. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with his game. It's very hard to stay at the top.

> > >

> > > We've seen a pattern of guys getting hot and fading. Not all with equal success to be fair. They always bounce back somewhat

> > >

> > > Dustin Johnson

> > > Justin Rose

> > > Jason Day

> > > Rory (making a comeback?)

> > > Justin Thomas (injury?)

> > >

> > > Go further back in history you'll see it too

> >

> > But then there is Bill Rogers who won 4 times in 1981, including the Open Championship, had an honest shot at the US Open in 1982, won the US F&G in 1983, and that was that. No comeback.

>

> That was 1982. He had fuzzy and craig stadler type competition. Not an even comparison. 3 majors today is worth 5 in the 80s.

 

I'll sound like Lowheel but..... What, are you crazy? I know you are a fairly recently minted golf fan but don't be daft.

Just because you don't know the records of many of the top players from then does not mean they were lesser players.

It was a very top heavy season on tour but those guys could play. Albeit a different game than today because of the equipment.