What up with Jordan?

[melo]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @johnseg said:

> > > @tsecor said:

> > > Phil is YOUR benchmark for the HOF? lol.....one of the elite golfers of all time? wow....the HOF would have like 10 guys in it if you were the deciding vote> @Ferguson said:

> >

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Well it isn't the Hall of Really Good. The Hall of Fame should be for greats of the game. Phil's career might be a little high to set the bar but I think 20 wins and 2 majors should be the arbitrary numbers for my Hall.

>

> Agree. The ingredients should be 2 majors minimum. One can be flukish. 2 can’t. And I’d go along with 20 wins. Could be worldwide wins. But 20 pro tour wins.

 

So basically the Golf Hall of Fame is, "are you better than Padraig Harrington?"

[tsecor]

so nothing else comes into play like top 10's in majors, top 2's....or flair for the dramatic win? A lot more comes into play for me and Spieth is there. His resume is just as good as the all time greats at this age....

[bladehunter]

> @tsecor said:

> so nothing else comes into play like top 10's in majors, top 2's....or flair for the dramatic win? A lot more comes into play for me and Spieth is there. His resume is just as good as the all time greats at this age....

 

I agree with that. He’s in if he quits today.

 

I’m terrible at deciding things like this. But I would say there would have to be some sliding scale for more major wins. As in as majors go up the requirement for overall wins goes down.

 

I’d also be fine with an asterisk kind of inductee who was recognized for philanthropy, or other outside golf things that overall push them over the top.

[bladehunter]

> @melo said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @johnseg said:

> > > > @tsecor said:

> > > > Phil is YOUR benchmark for the HOF? lol.....one of the elite golfers of all time? wow....the HOF would have like 10 guys in it if you were the deciding vote> @Ferguson said:

> > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > Well it isn't the Hall of Really Good. The Hall of Fame should be for greats of the game. Phil's career might be a little high to set the bar but I think 20 wins and 2 majors should be the arbitrary numbers for my Hall.

> >

> > Agree. The ingredients should be 2 majors minimum. One can be flukish. 2 can’t. And I’d go along with 20 wins. Could be worldwide wins. But 20 pro tour wins.

>

> So basically the Golf Hall of Fame is, "are you better than Padraig Harrington?"

 

according to Wikipedia he has 25 wins on 4 tours and 10 “other” pro wins. Plus 3 majors. He’s in!

[tsecor]

A lot of European wins are tough due to the courses, weather and European players. The HOF isn't the AMERICAN HOF, its just the GOLF HOF........hell, I bet Scotty Cameron gets in someday.... > @johnseg said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Agree. The ingredients should be 2 majors minimum. One can be flukish. 2 can’t. And I’d go along with 20 wins. Could be worldwide wins. But 20 pro tour wins.

> I struggle with the value of Euro vs PGA wins, but those are the only ones i would count.

>

 

 

[YoureStillAway1]

Anyone who doesn't think Spieth is in at this very moment is insane. Hall of Fame career before he's 30. How many have been able accomplish such an impressive achievement? Not many.

[Ferguson]

It would be like calling Bruce Koepka in the hall. Nope.

This is not about Spieth and his HOF career.

 

This is about why Jordan's game has "soured."

[QuigleyDU]

To me, I am seeing signs of a corner turn. I know his scores this week are not great, but I see signs of better putting and more accurate driving. He will turn it around. He set a tough standard for himself.

[ebrasmus21]

> @Ferguson said:

> It would be like calling Bruce Koepka in the hall. Nope.

> This is not about Spieth and his HOF career.

>

> This is about why Jordan's game has "soured."

 

Love how the name “Bruce” has stuck.

[Babydaddy]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> To me, I am seeing signs of a corner turn. I know his scores this week are not great, but I see signs of better putting and more accurate driving. He will turn it around. He set a tough standard for himself.

 

I'd like to believe this but...

There are some things that Spieth will likely struggle with-

He was 2nd in strokes gain into the green a couple of years ago- he's now in the triple digits. Guys that have weak left hand grips like his can be superlative short game and iron players (Johnny Miller comes to mind). But if he wants to drive it straight and long like some of his cohort, I don't see how he doesn't at least add a knuckle to his grip.

Secondly, he has become somewhat petulant on the course, which when you can compensate with outrageous recovery shots and you make medium and long putts like no one else, you can be a little fidgety and such- now, I think he is making the mistake that many of us who try to make swing changes do- he is feeling like he shouldn't really miss- at least like he has been. I think his attitude makes the technical worse.

Also- you can see that the caddie relationship is tense, and personally I think Grellar is sitting there thinking "just shut the hell up".

I am a fan (of Spieth)- everyone that I know in the game swears that he is a good guy- and I have always thought he was the rare champion-

Golf history is littered with people who tried to gain yardage or tweak some aspect of their game; then they develop a 2 way miss, and then they can't get it back because the confidence required to play out there is a level of deep confidence that few ever know.

I think certain personality types are less resilient to setbacks, and I think although Jordan is saying the right things in his press conferences, his eyes tell a different story.

I don't think he really has confidence in his team or himself. When things were great Grellar was great. Now, he may be in the cross hairs. The reason is because with this type of mental makeup, you have to disperse the blame or you could be destroyed. It's like how some really good putters blame missed putts on spike marks that weren't really there.

[QuigleyDU]

> @Babydaddy said:

> > @QuigleyDU said:

> > To me, I am seeing signs of a corner turn. I know his scores this week are not great, but I see signs of better putting and more accurate driving. He will turn it around. He set a tough standard for himself.

>

> I'd like to believe this but...

> There are some things that Spieth will likely struggle with-

> He was 2nd in strokes gain into the green a couple of years ago- he's now in the triple digits. Guys that have weak left hand grips like his can be superlative short game and iron players (Johnny Miller comes to mind). But if he wants to drive it straight and long like some of his cohort, I don't see how he doesn't at least add a knuckle to his grip.

> Secondly, he has become somewhat petulant on the course, which when you can compensate with outrageous recovery shots and you make medium and long putts like no one else, you can be a little fidgety and such- now, I think he is making the mistake that many of us who try to make swing changes do- he is feeling like he shouldn't really miss- at least like he has been. I think his attitude makes the technical worse.

> Also- you can see that the caddie relationship is tense, and personally I think Grellar is sitting there thinking "just shut the **** up".

> I am a fan (of Spieth)- everyone that I know in the game swears that he is a good guy- and I have always thought he was the rare champion-

> Golf history is littered with people who tried to gain yardage or tweak some aspect of their game; then they develop a 2 way miss, and then they can't get it back because the confidence required to play out there is a level of deep confidence that few ever know.

> I think certain personality types are less resilient to setbacks, and I think although Jordan is saying the right things in his press conferences, his eyes tell a different story.

> I don't think he really has confidence in his team or himself. When things were great Grellar was great. Now, he may be in the cross hairs. The reason is because with this type of mental makeup, you have to disperse the blame or you could be destroyed. It's like how some really good putters blame missed putts on spike marks that weren't really there.

 

everything you say makes complete sense. I still feel like there is about to be a turn in his game. I could be wrong though.

[Babydaddy]

> @QuigleyDU said:

> > @Babydaddy said:

> > > @QuigleyDU said:

> > > To me, I am seeing signs of a corner turn. I know his scores this week are not great, but I see signs of better putting and more accurate driving. He will turn it around. He set a tough standard for himself.

> >

> > I'd like to believe this but...

> > There are some things that Spieth will likely struggle with-

> > He was 2nd in strokes gain into the green a couple of years ago- he's now in the triple digits. Guys that have weak left hand grips like his can be superlative short game and iron players (Johnny Miller comes to mind). But if he wants to drive it straight and long like some of his cohort, I don't see how he doesn't at least add a knuckle to his grip.

> > Secondly, he has become somewhat petulant on the course, which when you can compensate with outrageous recovery shots and you make medium and long putts like no one else, you can be a little fidgety and such- now, I think he is making the mistake that many of us who try to make swing changes do- he is feeling like he shouldn't really miss- at least like he has been. I think his attitude makes the technical worse.

> > Also- you can see that the caddie relationship is tense, and personally I think Grellar is sitting there thinking "just shut the **** up".

> > I am a fan (of Spieth)- everyone that I know in the game swears that he is a good guy- and I have always thought he was the rare champion-

> > Golf history is littered with people who tried to gain yardage or tweak some aspect of their game; then they develop a 2 way miss, and then they can't get it back because the confidence required to play out there is a level of deep confidence that few ever know.

> > I think certain personality types are less resilient to setbacks, and I think although Jordan is saying the right things in his press conferences, his eyes tell a different story.

> > I don't think he really has confidence in his team or himself. When things were great Grellar was great. Now, he may be in the cross hairs. The reason is because with this type of mental makeup, you have to disperse the blame or you could be destroyed. It's like how some really good putters blame missed putts on spike marks that weren't really there.

>

> everything you say makes complete sense. I still feel like there is about to be a turn in his game. I could be wrong though.

 

I hope you are right- he is one of my absolute favorites to watch

[disco111]

There's lots of opinions on why Spieth is having problems, but the most specific item looks to be the driver. The big numbers that he has been taking, have been a direct result of the driver going south at some point during the round. Now be it because he's changed his swing, he's looking for more distance or whatever, it's the driver that's the stumbling block. At least from my perspective.

[00steven]

Cam McCormick needs to go. Period.

[tsecor]

BROOKS Koepka is already in the top 20 all time and if he or Rory get to 6, its top 10 all time.....Rory is already in and Koepka probably is too but he has to win more regular tourneys to round out his resume

 

Spieth is in. its a lock

[straightshot7]

> @Shilgy said:

> If you look at it this way there is nothing wrong with Jordan.......

> He is like Koepka's mini me. Does not care about regular events and plays better in majors. Well, he still does not win but he does play better.

> 2018 majors 3-CUT-9-12

> 2019 majors 21-3-65

> Not great but shows better at the majors?!?!?!

 

He's definitely slightly less bad at the Majors...

 

If he top 25's at The Open I think you're on to something!

[Shilgy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > so nothing else comes into play like top 10's in majors, top 2's....or flair for the dramatic win? A lot more comes into play for me and Spieth is there. His resume is just as good as the all time greats at this age....

>

> I agree with that. He’s in if he quits today.

>

> I’m terrible at deciding things like this. But I would say there would have to be some sliding scale for more major wins. As in as majors go up the requirement for overall wins goes down.

>

> I’d also be fine with an asterisk kind of inductee who was recognized for philanthropy, or other outside golf things that overall push them over the top.

 

Ok... Oh wait... Spieth has 20 wins?

[bladehunter]

I don’t care what anyone says. His true swing is still in there. If he’s tell everyone to F off and just work toward resetting his brain he could get back to it. He’s still hit by far more balls with that swing than the abomination he’s trying to perfect now.

 

I heard him today examining divots. “ the ball went that way. But the divot went this way “. Yep. You tried to hit a draw and came over it and hit a push wipe. e , > @Shilgy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @tsecor said:

> > > so nothing else comes into play like top 10's in majors, top 2's....or flair for the dramatic win? A lot more comes into play for me and Spieth is there. His resume is just as good as the all time greats at this age....

> >

> > I agree with that. He’s in if he quits today.

> >

> > I’m terrible at deciding things like this. But I would say there would have to be some sliding scale for more major wins. As in as majors go up the requirement for overall wins goes down.

> >

> > I’d also be fine with an asterisk kind of inductee who was recognized for philanthropy, or other outside golf things that overall push them over the top.

>

> Ok... Oh wait... Spieth has 20 wins?

 

No. But he has 3 majors. Sliding scale I said. lol

[Shilgy]

> @tsecor said:

> BROOKS Koepka is already in the top 20 all time and if he or Rory get to 6, its top 10 all time.....Rory is already in and Koepka probably is too but he has to win more regular tourneys to round out his resume

>

> Spieth is in. its a lock

 

Koepka with 4 is tied for 20th all time on the majors list. It's a stretch to say he's in the top 20 all time best though.

[tsecor]

top 20 on the major listy...not all time player......he is far away from that> @Shilgy said:

> > @tsecor said:

> > BROOKS Koepka is already in the top 20 all time and if he or Rory get to 6, its top 10 all time.....Rory is already in and Koepka probably is too but he has to win more regular tourneys to round out his resume

> >

> > Spieth is in. its a lock

>

> Koepka with 4 is tied for 20th all time on the majors list. It's a stretch to say he's in the top 20 all time best though.

 

 

[PowerFade36]

Some ppl see the glass half empty, some half full. I think his competitive nature will eventually lead to a turn around.

[straightshot7]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> Some ppl see the glass half empty, some half full. I think his competitive nature will eventually lead to a turn around.

 

I agree on the eventual turnaround.

 

But, as for the last 46 tournaments with no win---interpretation is not required (glass half full vs. half empty).

 

That's objectively bad.

[idrive]

> @YoureStillAway1 said:

> Anyone who doesn't think Spieth is in at this very moment is insane. Hall of Fame career before he's 30. How many have been able accomplish such an impressive achievement? Not many.

 

I must be insane because there is no way JS has had a Hall of Fame career to this point.

 

Unless he finds his game and has 10 good years ahead of him starting now he will not be in the Hall.

[Titleist_PT23]

> @idrive said:

> > @YoureStillAway1 said:

> > Anyone who doesn't think Spieth is in at this very moment is insane. Hall of Fame career before he's 30. How many have been able accomplish such an impressive achievement? Not many.

>

> I must be insane because there is no way JS has had a Hall of Fame career to this point.

>

> Unless he finds his game and has 10 good years ahead of him starting now he will not be in the Hall.

I can see the argument. But I think he's in even if he never makes another cut...

[oz dee cee]

I lost $20 on him when he missed the cut. ?

Sort it Jordan! Please! ?

[rafal]

> @"oz dee cee" said:

> I lost $20 on him when he missed the cut. ?

> Sort it Jordan! Please! ?

 

Refer to Ferguson posts before putting any more money on the Spieths.

[PowerFade36]

> @straightshot7 said:

> > @PowerFade36 said:

> > Some ppl see the glass half empty, some half full. I think his competitive nature will eventually lead to a turn around.

>

> I agree on the eventual turnaround.

>

> But, as for the last 46 tournaments with no win---interpretation is not required (glass half full vs. half empty).

>

> That's objectively bad.

 

Really? Bad?

T3rd at PGA Championship, 67th in FED Ex standings is bad? There's 1000's of professional golfers on international tours and web.com tours who would gladly take this. Again, half empty half full.

[disco111]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > Some ppl see the glass half empty, some half full. I think his competitive nature will eventually lead to a turn around.

> >

> > I agree on the eventual turnaround.

> >

> > But, as for the last 46 tournaments with no win---interpretation is not required (glass half full vs. half empty).

> >

> > That's objectively bad.

>

> Really? Bad?

> T3rd at PGA Championship, 67th in FED Ex standings is bad? There's 1000's of professional golfers on international tours and web.com tours who would gladly take this. Again, half empty half full.

 

Granted, a lot of pro's would gladly take that, but from where he was to where he is..................yes, it's bad.............

[straightshot7]

> @PowerFade36 said:

> > @straightshot7 said:

> > > @PowerFade36 said:

> > > Some ppl see the glass half empty, some half full. I think his competitive nature will eventually lead to a turn around.

> >

> > I agree on the eventual turnaround.

> >

> > But, as for the last 46 tournaments with no win---interpretation is not required (glass half full vs. half empty).

> >

> > That's objectively bad.

>

> Really? Bad?

> T3rd at PGA Championship, 67th in FED Ex standings is bad? There's 1000's of professional golfers on international tours and web.com tours who would gladly take this. Again, half empty half full.

 

Yes, that's bad. For the level of player he was and the player he was projected to be.

 

If his goal was to be an average Tour player then you are right--he's right on track. But that's not his goal and has never been his goal.

 

You can manipulate anything and say "look, I'm being glass half full!" ... But I would rather be close to objective truth than make it my aim to just "be positive". Even Spieth himself would admit he has had 2 very disappointing years. You're the only one who doesn't feel that way. No offense.

[PowerFade36]

I get what you're saying about trying to be objective, but I dont see why you or any of his other fans would hold him to this impossible standard. He doesnt have the raw tools to dominate this sport. When his game isn't 100% on, hes just above average which is what hes been. So I just dont see why anyone would think not winning in a 2year stretch is just plain bad. Keep in mind, I'm ignoring his own expectations on himself.