So, Is "Tiger Effect" Still a Thing? (Merged)

[playa]

> @JAMH03 said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > If it was real... why does TW have a grand total of one come from behind win out of 75 or however many majors he's been trailing in?

> >

> > Then again, when you do this, plus for a decade win 25% of your starts (includimg majors) and in some years 35% or more, it tends to create a certain "effect"....

> >

> > "Woods is 52-4 when holding a share of the 54-hole lead, including 41-2 when he's held it outright."

> >

> > From 2015.

> >

> > https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/08/22/tiger-woods-pga-tour-record-36-54-hole-lead-12650/

>

> Seems more indicative of him being the better golfer to get those leads in the first place. Giving the better golfer a handicap probably explains those outcomes just as well if not better. I understand it's an unpopular opinion but since the data supports it I'm OK with it. PS love your avatar! Will read link as well.

 

I tend to agree that to hold a 54 hole lead is indicative that he was playing well, but his rate of closing is indicative of how well he functions under pressure. Other golfers feel the pressure and tighten up and make mental and execution errors when holding a Sunday lead, but Tiger holds it together better than anyone. It also shows what a great course manager he is. He thinks his way around the course according to the conditions and state of play, and never beats himself. He makes the chasers take the risks and go for the big plays to catch him, which rarely happens.

[JAMH03]

Or he is the more skilled golfer, playing well, on a tough track, with more experiance in contention more knowledge of his competitors circumstances more holes to play and the lead. I suck at math, but why doesnt anyone else for the last 50 years get into contention like him? Hes been better thur-sat too.

[mosesgolf]

Improbable miracles and utter heartache have always happened at Augusta. Spieth 2016, Molinari 12th 15th, BK 12th, Greg Norman 1996, Jack 1986...........That 12th hole is unexplainable. How did 2 of the toughest current players including Tony Finau dunk it on 12? Why didn’t BK and FM just go for middle of the green rather than at that pin. Same thing Jordan tried in 16. IMO it wasn’t just the Tiger fear it was the magnitude of what was at stake and that’s being Masters Champion. So many guys were making birdies left and right shooting up the leaderboard. You think Patrick Cantaly was scared when he shot up to the top of the leaderboard? Yes he peed in his pants once he got there. He realized what was at stake and fell apart. BK followed up 12th hole with an eagle on the next. That’s hardly the act of someone that’s intimidated. Tiger just knows how to win and this new Tiger knows how to win majors now coming back from behind. His play on #12 was classic Nicklaus and a veteran smart move. His shots on 13, 15 & 16 were what legends do.

[Ferguson]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> We know Tiger is Jack, who's Tom Watson?

>

> Brooks took one off of him at the PGA. Will anyone else step up?

 

Most of them will step up.................I think we are going to see some great golf this year.

 

Again, Thanks to Tiger Woods.

[mosesgolf]

We will likely see a similar leaderboard for the rest of the year. 2019 Majors on Sunday are going to be exciting.

[jonn443]

> @mosesgolf said:

> Improbable miracles and utter heartache have always happened at Augusta. Spieth 2016, Molinari 12th 15th, BK 12th, Greg Norman 1996, Jack 1986...........That 12th hole is unexplainable. How did 2 of the toughest current players including Tony Finau dunk it on 12? Why didn’t BK and FM just go for middle of the green rather than at that pin. Same thing Jordan tried in 16. IMO it wasn’t just the Tiger fear it was the magnitude of what was at stake and that’s being Masters Champion. So many guys were making birdies left and right shooting up the leaderboard. You think Patrick Cantaly was scared when he shot up to the top of the leaderboard? Yes he peed in his pants once he got there. He realized what was at stake and fell apart. BK followed up 12th hole with an eagle on the next. That’s hardly the act of someone that’s intimidated. Tiger just knows how to win and this new Tiger knows how to win majors now coming back from behind. His play on #12 was classic Nicklaus and a veteran smart move. His shots on 13, 15 & 16 were what legends do.

 

Exactly, after Molinari faltered, he saw his opportunity and went to the mental playbook on Holes 12-18...The one he used to win 4 other Green Jackets. 16 was an added bonus, he was shooting for middle of the green but a little higher it stays up and doesn't catch the slope. Lastly I agree that his ability to get out of jail is unmatchable... That said, he had more then one fortuitous bounces/landings which could have easily killed his Master's bid.

 

His experience shined.

[rattlergolfer]

> @redfirebird08 said:

> > @rattlergolfer said:

> >

> > On 15 the ball hit a tree. Was that a breakdown?

> >

> > Or was the breakdown his 1st and 2nd shot?

>

> Molinari is a ballstriking machine. He hit a horrible tee shot at 15 and then a very poor layup as well. He put himself in bad spots and paid the price with the tree branch on the 3rd shot.

 

 

[redfirebird08]

> @"A.Princey" said:

> > @RobotDoctor said:

> > > @MtlJeff said:

> > > Tiger has been in contention a lot the past couple of years and hasn't won as much as he used to, certainly. He was always going to win again, playing as well as he was, but I don't think you can say that everyone was intimidated just because he won today. He won because he was the best IMO. That happens sometimes too, the best guy just wins.

> > >

> > > In 1998-2006 guys like Ernie Els flat out admitted they altered their game with Tiger because they knew they couldn't beat him unless they did crazy things. When he was in contention they'd hit dumb shots, be overly aggressive etc...

> > >

> > > I dont think guys like shauffele, Koepka, Johnson and others think like this now. I think they see tiger as a peer but not an immortal. Tiger will still beat them, but Koepka didn't seem to crumble at the PGA championship either.

> > >

> > > I'm really looking forward to this season to see for sure though

> >

> > Here is something to consider. Almost all the young stars of golf can drive the ball with greater accuracy and a bit father than Woods can. They know that, they know Tiger knows that. These great young players also know that Tiger has a tendency to be a little wild off the drive (whether that is with driver, 3 wood or the occasional iron). Yet, Tiger often manages to get out of trouble and still score as if he is Houdini. Case in point was the 14th hole on Friday and Saturday. He birdies both days when he should have probably taken bogey each day after his drives there. Keep doing that enough and a golfer will definitely get in the heads of their playing partners, let alone the field. This is what Tiger has excelled in, the recovery from certain "death" (so to speak). Tiger Woods simply wears down his opponents and is as tenacious as a Pit Bull with a bone when he gets into contention. Sometimes Tiger perseveres, sometimes he doesn't. After all, he is not a robot. He is simply a competitor who's focus is to win. I believe his play yesterday affected several players in the field and instead of focusing solely on their game and strategy they focused on Tiger, or at least the thought of Tiger had crept into their minds. That plays right into "Houdini's" hand.

> >

> > Jack Nicklaus and Arnold Palmer often have said their focus at some events, including major championships, were on trying to beat the other and that they had lost focus on the rest of the field that it probably cost them a handful of major championships. The point here is a golfer must focus at their own task at hand and not worry about another player. When Tiger Woods gets into contention players start to think about him and his charge and what they have to do to keep in front that they lose focus on their plan. If this were a chess game then Tiger has just checked the other player.

>

>

> Very well stated, imagine leaving the teebox and you've flushed your drive down the heart of the fairway, and Tiger is 20y back and 50 yards left in the trees. Immediately you assume you've got him on that hole, only to find out his next shot, a noodle-whip stinger, somehow limps on the green. That's got to be extremely demoralizing after experiencing Houdini first hand, time and time again.

 

Yeah. Tiger is very similar to Arnold, Seve, and Phil in terms of the scrambling and recovery ability. I would say he is probably the greatest Houdini artist in golf history. Those other guys were incredible at it and his accomplishments dwarf them by a large amount. Other GOAT level players such as Hogan & Nicklaus were more consistent in that they hit a ton of fairways off the tee.

 

I suppose Walter Hagen could be in that GOAT Houdini conversation with Tiger. Walter had 11 majors plus 5 Western Opens (borderline major in his day) and Walter was very well known for pulling off heroic shots from serious trouble off the tee. Arnold drove Hogan nuts because Hogan believed a great player should have 80% accuracy on every shot. Arnold would pull miracles from the trees and that was just not Hogan's view of a great player. Hogan would be rolling in his grave if you told him Tiger drives it so crooked and wins 15 majors.

[Pent08]

> @mosesgolf said:

> Improbable miracles and utter heartache have always happened at Augusta. Spieth 2016, Molinari 12th 15th, BK 12th, Greg Norman 1996, Jack 1986...........That 12th hole is unexplainable. How did 2 of the toughest current players including Tony Finau dunk it on 12? Why didn’t BK and FM just go for middle of the green rather than at that pin. Same thing Jordan tried in 16. IMO it wasn’t just the Tiger fear it was the magnitude of what was at stake and that’s being Masters Champion. So many guys were making birdies left and right shooting up the leaderboard. You think Patrick Cantaly was scared when he shot up to the top of the leaderboard? Yes he peed in his pants once he got there. He realized what was at stake and fell apart. BK followed up 12th hole with an eagle on the next. That’s hardly the act of someone that’s intimidated. Tiger just knows how to win and this new Tiger knows how to win majors now coming back from behind. His play on #12 was classic Nicklaus and a veteran smart move. His shots on 13, 15 & 16 were what legends do.

 

And Rory 4 putted #12 for a double back in 2011.

[dropkicked]

Tiger Effect....

 

https://twitter.com/MikeStachura

[Titleist 670]

> @playa said:

> > @JAMH03 said:

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > If it was real... why does TW have a grand total of one come from behind win out of 75 or however many majors he's been trailing in?

> > >

> > > Then again, when you do this, plus for a decade win 25% of your starts (includimg majors) and in some years 35% or more, it tends to create a certain "effect"....

> > >

> > > "Woods is 52-4 when holding a share of the 54-hole lead, including 41-2 when he's held it outright."

> > >

> > > From 2015.

> > >

> > > https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/08/22/tiger-woods-pga-tour-record-36-54-hole-lead-12650/

> >

> > Seems more indicative of him being the better golfer to get those leads in the first place. Giving the better golfer a handicap probably explains those outcomes just as well if not better. I understand it's an unpopular opinion but since the data supports it I'm OK with it. PS love your avatar! Will read link as well.

>

> I tend to agree that to hold a 54 hole lead is indicative that he was playing well, but his rate of closing is indicative of how well he functions under pressure. Other golfers feel the pressure and tighten up and make mental and execution errors when holding a Sunday lead, but Tiger holds it together better than anyone. It also shows what a great course manager he is. He thinks his way around the course according to the conditions and state of play, and never beats himself. He makes the chasers take the risks and go for the big plays to catch him, which rarely happens.

 

Tiger's closing rate is absolute insanity.

 

I don't think what we saw on Sunday was the "Tiger effect" - it's more indicative of the game today. There just aren't many good closers. Koepka has shown the most promise recently, as has Molinari, which is why I was actually surprised both of them didn't make much noise down the stretch, though Brooks came close and I love the fact that he steps it up in majors.

 

Tiger saw the leaderboard after 12 and just did the math. If he did what he had to do, he knew he would win. And he did it. It doesn't mean it wasn't great, it's just he has a control in final rounds more often than not that is completely unrivaled by anyone today.

 

Tiger would much rather go into a final round with a 2 stroke lead, whereas I think most today would rather be 2 behind so that there isn't inherent pressure on them. Tiger just handles it so much better than everyone else.

[redfirebird08]

> @"Titleist 670" said:

>

> Tiger saw the leaderboard after 12 and just did the math. If he did what he had to do, he knew he would win. And he did it.

 

I wouldn't say that. Molinari was still tied with Tiger after the 12th hole and both of them birdied the 13th. Molinari was actually closer on the 14th for birdie and had a great chance to take the lead after Tiger missed his birdie chance. Tied on the 15th tee. Really bad timing for Molinari to end up with a poor drive plus an even worse layup shot...and then an unlucky 3rd shot that caught the tree branches. Bottom line is it was not clear Tiger had control until the approach shots on the 15th hole.

[Man_O_War]

Tiger effect is still a thing..heck it affects tiger himself...with the putt he missed on 17 :) and the other blocked drives. It's just a tough test of golf. No Tiger effect...although i was surprised Koepka missed the putt on 18 by that much.

[JAMH03]

> @"Titleist 670" said:

> > @playa said:

> > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > If it was real... why does TW have a grand total of one come from behind win out of 75 or however many majors he's been trailing in?

> > > >

> > > > Then again, when you do this, plus for a decade win 25% of your starts (includimg majors) and in some years 35% or more, it tends to create a certain "effect"....

> > > >

> > > > "Woods is 52-4 when holding a share of the 54-hole lead, including 41-2 when he's held it outright."

> > > >

> > > > From 2015.

> > > >

> > > > https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/08/22/tiger-woods-pga-tour-record-36-54-hole-lead-12650/

> > >

> > > Seems more indicative of him being the better golfer to get those leads in the first place. Giving the better golfer a handicap probably explains those outcomes just as well if not better. I understand it's an unpopular opinion but since the data supports it I'm OK with it. PS love your avatar! Will read link as well.

> >

> > I tend to agree that to hold a 54 hole lead is indicative that he was playing well, but his rate of closing is indicative of how well he functions under pressure. Other golfers feel the pressure and tighten up and make mental and execution errors when holding a Sunday lead, but Tiger holds it together better than anyone. It also shows what a great course manager he is. He thinks his way around the course according to the conditions and state of play, and never beats himself. He makes the chasers take the risks and go for the big plays to catch him, which rarely happens.

>

> Tiger's closing rate is absolute insanity.

>

> I don't think what we saw on Sunday was the "Tiger effect" - it's more indicative of the game today. There just aren't many good closers. Koepka has shown the most promise recently, as has Molinari, which is why I was actually surprised both of them didn't make much noise down the stretch, though Brooks came close and I love the fact that he steps it up in majors.

>

> Tiger saw the leaderboard after 12 and just did the math. If he did what he had to do, he knew he would win. And he did it. It doesn't mean it wasn't great, it's just he has a control in final rounds more often than not that is completely unrivaled by anyone today.

>

> Tiger would much rather go into a final round with a 2 stroke lead, whereas I think most today would rather be 2 behind so that there isn't inherent pressure on them. Tiger just handles it so much better> @"Titleist 670" said:

> > @playa said:

> > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @JAMH03 said:

> > > > > If it was real... why does TW have a grand total of one come from behind win out of 75 or however many majors he's been trailing in?

> > > >

> > > > Then again, when you do this, plus for a decade win 25% of your starts (includimg majors) and in some years 35% or more, it tends to create a certain "effect"....

> > > >

> > > > "Woods is 52-4 when holding a share of the 54-hole lead, including 41-2 when he's held it outright."

> > > >

> > > > From 2015.

> > > >

> > > > https://thegolfnewsnet.com/golfnewsnetteam/2015/08/22/tiger-woods-pga-tour-record-36-54-hole-lead-12650/

> > >

> > > Seems more indicative of him being the better golfer to get those leads in the first place. Giving the better golfer a handicap probably explains those outcomes just as well if not better. I understand it's an unpopular opinion but since the data supports it I'm OK with it. PS love your avatar! Will read link as well.

> >

> > I tend to agree that to hold a 54 hole lead is indicative that he was playing well, but his rate of closing is indicative of how well he functions under pressure. Other golfers feel the pressure and tighten up and make mental and execution errors when holding a Sunday lead, but Tiger holds it together better than anyone. It also shows what a great course manager he is. He thinks his way around the course according to the conditions and state of play, and never beats himself. He makes the chasers take the risks and go for the big plays to catch him, which rarely happens.

>

> Tiger's closing rate is absolute insanity.

>

> I don't think what we saw on Sunday was the "Tiger effect" - it's more indicative of the game today. There just aren't many good closers. Koepka has shown the most promise recently, as has Molinari, which is why I was actually surprised both of them didn't make much noise down the stretch, though Brooks came close and I love the fact that he steps it up in majors.

>

> Tiger saw the leaderboard after 12 and just did the math. If he did what he had to do, he knew he would win. And he did it. It doesn't mean it wasn't great, it's just he has a control in final rounds more often than not that is completely unrivaled by anyone today.

>

> Tiger would much rather go into a final round with a 2 stroke lead, whereas I think most today would rather be 2 behind so that there isn't inherent pressure on them. Tiger just handles it so much better than everyone else.

 

You might be over complicating things. Playing for your life, do you want strokes or do you want to give strokes? How do you gain a lead? Maybe those same skills help you win? Do we have any examples of players who have gotten the lead nearly as often and are NOT all time greats?

[dropkicked]

First it was that he would never win again. -He did

Second was that he will never beat the best of today, especially in a major because they are so much better. -He did

Now it's the young killers aren't closers, or they all made mistakes and handed Tiger, the win.. - LMFAO

This is all pretty comical.. I even read an story online where people were claiming that all the pros through the masters for Tiger.. -Cannot laugh this hard out of fear of dying..

 

These kids grew up cloning his game.. dreaming of dropping a putt against him on sunday @ the masters.. dreaming of shaking his hand at the end as the victor. Because of this, he holds an aura over them, even if most aren't aware.. I do know that Schauffele and Koepka are aware and because they acknowledge this awareness, they will be able to succeed against him, as they will prepare and train harder knowing now what it takes to overpower Tigers, will to win.

 

It's funny how his peers recognize his greatness, but the GWRX Pro's know better....

Just IMO and I know those GWRX Pros will enlighten me with their wisdom as to why my opinion is a FORE LEFT!

[jonn443]

> @rony10 said:

> The "Tiger Effect". These guys have Tiger watching them more than they "******want******" to watch him. The post game interviews showed Tiger was watching them closely and especially BK in the group ahead. I think out off all the others BK can make Tiger uneasy. Tiger stated on 12 he made the decision on how to play it and the club to use from mostly watching BK and the club he used. BUT, here's the kicker, the crowd won't let BK and the others not look back, the players don't want to, but as you saw with BK and others, the Tiger Roar puts Tiger in your head, you can't help it. It dictates when you start your routine, play your shot and therefore disrupts the individual routine and flow of the game of others. Its not Tigers fault nor the crowds, but its inevitable they make a mistake, and as we saw it only takes one or two mistakes to loose.

> Definition - The added pressure on ones game and subsequent error due to the inability to play to your own rhythm because of the inability to escape the "Tiger Roar" and the Ora of the person it represents.

> For me that is the new "Tiger Effect". AND I LOVE IT! Toughen up lads because its not going away anytime soon.

 

Easy guy, don't forget the numerous times this so called "Tiger Effect", didn't do squat. Ask Y.E. Yang, and the Swed who defeated Tiger in the Dell Matchplay. He's lost leads before and will again. That said, he is amazing at getting out of trouble and is an incredible iron player. So was Molinari, but Tiger out planned him from 12 on. Make mistakes, and he'll take the tournament away from you... And he did.

[bscinstnct]

> @jonn443 said:

> > @rony10 said:

> > The "Tiger Effect". These guys have Tiger watching them more than they "******want******" to watch him. The post game interviews showed Tiger was watching them closely and especially BK in the group ahead. I think out off all the others BK can make Tiger uneasy. Tiger stated on 12 he made the decision on how to play it and the club to use from mostly watching BK and the club he used. BUT, here's the kicker, the crowd won't let BK and the others not look back, the players don't want to, but as you saw with BK and others, the Tiger Roar puts Tiger in your head, you can't help it. It dictates when you start your routine, play your shot and therefore disrupts the individual routine and flow of the game of others. Its not Tigers fault nor the crowds, but its inevitable they make a mistake, and as we saw it only takes one or two mistakes to loose.

> > Definition - The added pressure on ones game and subsequent error due to the inability to play to your own rhythm because of the inability to escape the "Tiger Roar" and the Ora of the person it represents.

> > For me that is the new "Tiger Effect". AND I LOVE IT! Toughen up lads because its not going away anytime soon.

>

> Easy guy, don't forget the numerous times this so called "Tiger Effect", didn't do squat. Ask Y.E. Yang, and the Swed who defeated Tiger in the Dell Matchplay. He's lost leads before and will again. That said, he is amazing at getting out of trouble and is an incredible iron player. So was Molinari, but Tiger out planned him from 12 on. Make mistakes, and he'll take the tournament away from you... And he did.

 

The Tiger effect was very real.

 

You had the entire PGA tour saying that they were "playing for 2nd". After TW showed that no matter what you did, or how well you played, if he was "on", you were done. Obvious examples include Ernie at the Mercedes, JB Holmes, Badds at match play. These guys played top golf and TW beat them.

 

Imagine a guy who wins 4 majors in a row, goes on runs where he **wins HALF his starts, including Majors.**

 

You're basically facing Mike Tyson. How you not intimidated by this,

 

 

 

Then, Thanksgiving. Tiger effect pretty much gone. You can't intimidate people if they are laughing at you. He won in 2012 and 2013 but never was the same truly intimidating figure. And the injuries actually had people feeling bad for him. Pity, the antithesis of intimidation.

 

But now? He has 2 wins including a Masters.

 

Rory, BK, DJ, Bryson, the young guns. They must be like "Huh"?

 

So, it's a long way to go, if ever, he is TW 1.0 intimidating. But, guys now know they are playing Tiger Woods. It's real. It ain't the old man, washed up legend you feel bad for but are sure you can beat.

 

 

 

[ex0dus]

I think the Tiger effect is a bit different now. He doesn't have the aura of dominance he used to have, but the crowds seem more rabidly pro Tiger now than they used to be. I have followed Tiger several times over the years. By far the craziest Tiger crowd I have seen was last year and it was just a Saturday at the Quicken Loans.

[Cool Runnings]

I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

 

I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

 

Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

[Birdie Mac]

> @jonn443 said:

> > @rony10 said:

> > The "Tiger Effect". These guys have Tiger watching them more than they "******want******" to watch him. The post game interviews showed Tiger was watching them closely and especially BK in the group ahead. I think out off all the others BK can make Tiger uneasy. Tiger stated on 12 he made the decision on how to play it and the club to use from mostly watching BK and the club he used. BUT, here's the kicker, the crowd won't let BK and the others not look back, the players don't want to, but as you saw with BK and others, the Tiger Roar puts Tiger in your head, you can't help it. It dictates when you start your routine, play your shot and therefore disrupts the individual routine and flow of the game of others. Its not Tigers fault nor the crowds, but its inevitable they make a mistake, and as we saw it only takes one or two mistakes to loose.

> > Definition - The added pressure on ones game and subsequent error due to the inability to play to your own rhythm because of the inability to escape the "Tiger Roar" and the Ora of the person it represents.

> > For me that is the new "Tiger Effect". AND I LOVE IT! Toughen up lads because its not going away anytime soon.

>

> Easy guy, don't forget the numerous times this so called "Tiger Effect", didn't do squat. Ask Y.E. Yang, and the Swed who defeated Tiger in the Dell Matchplay. He's lost leads before and will again. That said, he is amazing at getting out of trouble and is an incredible iron player. So was Molinari, but Tiger out planned him from 12 on. Make mistakes, and he'll take the tournament away from you... And he did.

You can't use outliers as the basis for your argument. Tiger won't win every tournament, but there are numerous tournaments where his opponents crumbled under pressure. Oh, and by the way, the 'Swede' you mentioned is in fact a Dane, and his name is Lucas Beer Guard.

 

[2zlinks]

To me it was very telling when he hit that shot on 16 and Koepka stopped his practice swing on 17 tee and moved to see the shot. I promise you that Tiger would stop, but never look. Also DJ stating that his roars at Augusta do not sound the same as Tiger's. To me it looks like there is something there.

[bscinstnct]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

>

> I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

>

> Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

 

How fast things change, right cool?

 

There was a time when you and many smart media said TW couldn't win. Can't handle the pressure, the fields are too deep.

 

Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match and Rory won the Players.

 

Tiger beat Rory head to head in match play.

He beat Molinar and TF on the greatest pressure stage of all. Tiger kept it together while the choked.

Tiger beat Rahm to win a Green Jacket, his 15th, major, right in front of the Rahm majorless eyes.

 

He beat an entire field of the biggest, baddest, best trained, dieted, deepest, field of players, far more talented than any of those hacks TW beat back in his "era".

 

You once said that this new crop has no fear of Tiger and

 

**Enjoy taking his scalp**

 

Now, Rory sees old man Tiger do something that Rory hasn't been able to do in 8 years. Fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cool Runnings]

• “Tiger beat Rory in a head to head in match play”…

• Brandt beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

• Lucas beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

 

Tiger lost 2 matches, Rory lost 1 match, Lucas lost 1 match, so what’s your point?

 

“Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match”… So Tiger went in feeling inspired after his TC win, but after his 0-4 losses was now suddenly “tired”. You could also use that excuse for many players also, no?

 

And now the biggest event in world golf is just an “exhibition match”. Funny that, when players such as Justin Thomas, Molinari, Fleetwood have openly stated winning the Ryder Cup would mean more to them than a winning a major… yeah, just some “exhibition match”. Nice projection though, shame the players don’t feel that way about it.

 

Talking about the “greatest pressure stage of all”, that would again be the Ryder Cup. And that’s been openly stated again by Molinari, Rahm, Rory and many others when comparing it to the pressure they feel at majors.

 

And based on the fact all the many players I mentioned above have put away Tiger in convincing fashion, and some at the highest levels and under the highest pressure, these results show they don’t “fear” Tiger but I do think they greatly respect Tiger without question - but that’s a huge difference. I think now they’ll look at Tiger like the other major winners thinking Tiger’s yet another great player out there proven capable of winning majors today who I have to beat to win a major.

 

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

> >

> > I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

> >

> > Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

>

> How fast things change, right cool?

>

> There was a time when you and many smart media said TW couldn't win. Can't handle the pressure, the fields are too deep.

>

> Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match and Rory won the Players.

>

> Tiger beat Rory head to head in match play.

> He beat Molinar and TF on the greatest pressure stage of all. Tiger kept it together while the choked.

> Tiger beat Rahm to win a Green Jacket, his 15th, major, right in front of the Rahm majorless eyes.

>

> He beat an entire field of the biggest, baddest, best trained, dieted, deepest, field of players, far more talented than any of those hacks TW beat back in his "era".

>

> You once said that this new crop has no fear of Tiger and

>

> **Enjoy taking his scalp**

>

> Now, Rory sees old man Tiger do something that Rory hasn't been able to do in 8 years. Fact.

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

[bscinstnct]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> • “Tiger beat Rory in a head to head in match play”…

> • Brandt beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

> • Lucas beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

>

> Tiger lost 2 matches, Rory lost 1 match, Lucas lost 1 match, so what’s your point?

>

> “Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match”… So Tiger went in feeling inspired after his TC win, but after his 0-4 losses was now suddenly “tired”. You could also use that excuse for many players also, no?

>

> And now the biggest event in world golf is just an “exhibition match”. Funny that, when players such as Justin Thomas, Molinari, Fleetwood have openly stated winning the Ryder Cup would mean more to them than a winning a major… yeah, just some “exhibition match”. Nice projection though, shame the players don’t feel that way about it.

>

> Talking about the “greatest pressure stage of all”, that would again be the Ryder Cup. And that’s been openly stated again by Molinari, Rahm, Rory and many others when comparing it to the pressure they feel at majors.

>

> And based on the fact all the many players I mentioned above have put away Tiger in convincing fashion, and some at the highest levels and under the highest pressure, these results show they don’t “fear” Tiger but I do think they greatly respect Tiger without question - but that’s a huge difference. I think now they’ll look at Tiger like the other major winners thinking Tiger’s yet another great player out there who I have to beat to win a major.

>

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

> > >

> > > I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

> > >

> > > Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

> >

> > How fast things change, right cool?

> >

> > There was a time when you and many smart media said TW couldn't win. Can't handle the pressure, the fields are too deep.

> >

> > Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match and Rory won the Players.

> >

> > Tiger beat Rory head to head in match play.

> > He beat Molinar and TF on the greatest pressure stage of all. Tiger kept it together while the choked.

> > Tiger beat Rahm to win a Green Jacket, his 15th, major, right in front of the Rahm majorless eyes.

> >

> > He beat an entire field of the biggest, baddest, best trained, dieted, deepest, field of players, far more talented than any of those hacks TW beat back in his "era".

> >

> > You once said that this new crop has no fear of Tiger and

> >

> > **Enjoy taking his scalp**

> >

> > Now, Rory sees old man Tiger do something that Rory hasn't been able to do in 8 years. Fact.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>

 

You actually think that FM, Rory, or Rahm wouldn't trade their RC wins for

 

 

 

 

 

Or put it this way,

 

Would Tiger trade his green jacket to have beaten Rahm or FM in an exhibition match? The notion is laughable, right?

 

 

 

[dropkicked]

No golfer gives a poo about the Ryder Cup.. Biggest event, most pressure my backside.. The only reason anybody would care is because Tiger, was competing.

This isn't even a conversation worth thinking about.. no golfer is going to value a RC, win vs winning the fricken Masters.

That Green Jacket, actually means something whereas the Ryder Cup, is just filler until the upcoming season.

[redfirebird08]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

>

> I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

>

> Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

 

I don't think he will ever intimidate guys like he used to. They drive it longer than him, which is a big deal. That's a role reversal from the old days, but I would bet it's at least somewhat frustrating to those guys that he is fully capable of scoring better than them from 20 yards further back. Superior iron play and far superior course management can go a long ways.

 

But the crowd stuff is also a big deal. I believe Rory has admitted in media interviews that Tiger's crowd is like a 1 to 1.5 shot penalty in the round for everyone involved, including Tiger. Granted I think Tiger probably handles it better than others because of putting up with the zoo atmosphere for 20 years. But still it's interesting to hear a fellow top player admit that the crowds are a factor.

[Cool Runnings]

Of course not, Tiger is at a different stage in his career and rightly cares most about majors as he’s chasing Jack’s 18. The other players I mentioned are at different stages in their careers, have different goals and values things differently. The point that I was making is that you are projecting your own thoughts about the RC being just an “exhibition match” when the players think and feel differently. That’s the reality you seem unwilling to confront.

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > • “Tiger beat Rory in a head to head in match play”…

> > • Brandt beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

> > • Lucas beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

> >

> > Tiger lost 2 matches, Rory lost 1 match, Lucas lost 1 match, so what’s your point?

> >

> > “Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match”… So Tiger went in feeling inspired after his TC win, but after his 0-4 losses was now suddenly “tired”. You could also use that excuse for many players also, no?

> >

> > And now the biggest event in world golf is just an “exhibition match”. Funny that, when players such as Justin Thomas, Molinari, Fleetwood have openly stated winning the Ryder Cup would mean more to them than a winning a major… yeah, just some “exhibition match”. Nice projection though, shame the players don’t feel that way about it.

> >

> > Talking about the “greatest pressure stage of all”, that would again be the Ryder Cup. And that’s been openly stated again by Molinari, Rahm, Rory and many others when comparing it to the pressure they feel at majors.

> >

> > And based on the fact all the many players I mentioned above have put away Tiger in convincing fashion, and some at the highest levels and under the highest pressure, these results show they don’t “fear” Tiger but I do think they greatly respect Tiger without question - but that’s a huge difference. I think now they’ll look at Tiger like the other major winners thinking Tiger’s yet another great player out there who I have to beat to win a major.

> >

> > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

> > > >

> > > > I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

> > > >

> > > > Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

> > >

> > > How fast things change, right cool?

> > >

> > > There was a time when you and many smart media said TW couldn't win. Can't handle the pressure, the fields are too deep.

> > >

> > > Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match and Rory won the Players.

> > >

> > > Tiger beat Rory head to head in match play.

> > > He beat Molinar and TF on the greatest pressure stage of all. Tiger kept it together while the choked.

> > > Tiger beat Rahm to win a Green Jacket, his 15th, major, right in front of the Rahm majorless eyes.

> > >

> > > He beat an entire field of the biggest, baddest, best trained, dieted, deepest, field of players, far more talented than any of those hacks TW beat back in his "era".

> > >

> > > You once said that this new crop has no fear of Tiger and

> > >

> > > **Enjoy taking his scalp**

> > >

> > > Now, Rory sees old man Tiger do something that Rory hasn't been able to do in 8 years. Fact.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> >

>

> You actually think that FM, Rory, or Rahm wouldn't trade their RC wins for

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Or put it this way,

>

> Would Tiger trade his green jacket to have beaten Rahm or FM in an exhibition match? The notion is laughable, right?

>

>

>

 

[Cool Runnings]

I agree with much of what you’ve said, but it’s no more “frustrating” for players than watching Kevin Kisner shoot great scores and win from even further back… and at least Tiger is an all time great. The top players understand there are many ways to win and every player has their strengths and weaknesses, and even a players own game areas can be stronger or weaker on any given week.

 

Rory was saying this in the context of it being a distraction to other players, and if all those players that have beaten Tiger under great pressure did it with a “1 to 1.5 shot penalty” then their performances are even more spectacular and devoid of fear.

 

> @redfirebird08 said:

> > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

> >

> > I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

> >

> > Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

>

> I don't think he will ever intimidate guys like he used to. They drive it longer than him, which is a big deal. That's a role reversal from the old days, but I would bet it's at least somewhat frustrating to those guys that he is fully capable of scoring better than them from 20 yards further back. Superior iron play and far superior course management can go a long ways.

>

> But the crowd stuff is also a big deal. I believe Rory has admitted in media interviews that Tiger's crowd is like a 1 to 1.5 shot penalty in the round for everyone involved, including Tiger. Granted I think Tiger probably handles it better than others because of putting up with the zoo atmosphere for 20 years. But still it's interesting to hear a fellow top player admit that the crowds are a factor.

 

[Cool Runnings]

“No golfer gives a poo about the Ryder Cup..”

 

With all due respect, what absolute rubbish. The players own words prove that categorically wrong, on every conceivable level.

 

This is nothing but your own projection and feelings about the event.

 

> @dropkicked said:

> No golfer gives a poo about the Ryder Cup.. Biggest event, most pressure my backside.. The only reason anybody would care is because Tiger, was competing.

> This isn't even a conversation worth thinking about.. no golfer is going to value a RC, win vs winning the fricken Masters.

> That Green Jacket, actually means something whereas the Ryder Cup, is just filler until the upcoming season.

 

[bscinstnct]

> @"Cool Runnings" said:

> Of course not, Tiger is at a different stage in his career and rightly cares most about majors as he’s chasing Jack’s 18. The other players I mentioned are at different stages in their careers, have different goals and values things differently. The point that I was making is that you are projecting your own thoughts about the RC being just an “exhibition match” when the players think and feel differently. That’s the reality you seem unwilling to confront.

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > • “Tiger beat Rory in a head to head in match play”…

> > > • Brandt beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

> > > • Lucas beat Tiger in a head to head in match play…

> > >

> > > Tiger lost 2 matches, Rory lost 1 match, Lucas lost 1 match, so what’s your point?

> > >

> > > “Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match”… So Tiger went in feeling inspired after his TC win, but after his 0-4 losses was now suddenly “tired”. You could also use that excuse for many players also, no?

> > >

> > > And now the biggest event in world golf is just an “exhibition match”. Funny that, when players such as Justin Thomas, Molinari, Fleetwood have openly stated winning the Ryder Cup would mean more to them than a winning a major… yeah, just some “exhibition match”. Nice projection though, shame the players don’t feel that way about it.

> > >

> > > Talking about the “greatest pressure stage of all”, that would again be the Ryder Cup. And that’s been openly stated again by Molinari, Rahm, Rory and many others when comparing it to the pressure they feel at majors.

> > >

> > > And based on the fact all the many players I mentioned above have put away Tiger in convincing fashion, and some at the highest levels and under the highest pressure, these results show they don’t “fear” Tiger but I do think they greatly respect Tiger without question - but that’s a huge difference. I think now they’ll look at Tiger like the other major winners thinking Tiger’s yet another great player out there who I have to beat to win a major.

> > >

> > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > @"Cool Runnings" said:

> > > > > I say no based on the fact those double bogeys happened specifically on hole 12 at Augusta where it’s renowned for punishing players that don’t hit perfect shots or wind impacts their ball by surprise (think Jordan Spieth putting it in the water when Tiger wasn’t a factor), it’s the hole / occasion, not Tiger.

> > > > >

> > > > > I say no again based on the fact many more players haven’t been affected by Tiger. i.e. Lucas Bjerregaard at WGC, Jon Rahm at RC 2018, Molinari twice at RC 2012 & The Open, Brooks at PGA. Brooks & Molinari as we know have already proven they’re not bothered by Tiger’s reputation by beating him convincing under this same huge pressure before… and also the numerous other younger players throughout last year that got the better of Tiger when paired with him last year.

> > > > >

> > > > > Certain people like to over think and over romanticise these type of things…

> > > >

> > > > How fast things change, right cool?

> > > >

> > > > There was a time when you and many smart media said TW couldn't win. Can't handle the pressure, the fields are too deep.

> > > >

> > > > Since the time Rahm beat a tired TW in an exibition match and Rory won the Players.

> > > >

> > > > Tiger beat Rory head to head in match play.

> > > > He beat Molinar and TF on the greatest pressure stage of all. Tiger kept it together while the choked.

> > > > Tiger beat Rahm to win a Green Jacket, his 15th, major, right in front of the Rahm majorless eyes.

> > > >

> > > > He beat an entire field of the biggest, baddest, best trained, dieted, deepest, field of players, far more talented than any of those hacks TW beat back in his "era".

> > > >

> > > > You once said that this new crop has no fear of Tiger and

> > > >

> > > > **Enjoy taking his scalp**

> > > >

> > > > Now, Rory sees old man Tiger do something that Rory hasn't been able to do in 8 years. Fact.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> > You actually think that FM, Rory, or Rahm wouldn't trade their RC wins for

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Or put it this way,

> >

> > Would Tiger trade his green jacket to have beaten Rahm or FM in an exhibition match? The notion is laughable, right?

> >

> >

> >

>

 

Players say all kinds of stuff.

 

But if you gave any golfer a choice at the beginning of their career to win

 

4 Majors and no RCs or

4 RCs and no Majors

 

None of them would take the RCs