Going it alone- Tiger's new philosophy

[ferrispgm]

Tiger's swing right now looks solid. He doesn't have that crazy right shoulder drop in transition anymore which really contorted his spine and made him rely too much on his hands to square the face.

 

Regarding going it alone....I'm not sure if a lot of guys could do it or not...i think you need someone who has a good self-awareness of their body and their own swing. DJ for example doesn't strike me as someone that could do it. Vijay probably could. Either way, it's working for him and it's certainly fun to watch!

[MK7Golf21]

> @Cpr3584 said:

> yes I agree the Haney swing was too flat. He looks more upright now but still has the connection between his left arm and chest

I agree it was crazy for him to change but his knee at the time had a lot to do with the changes he made. Dr's had told him his ACL was extremely stretched, they found this out after performing surgery on his knee and Tiger thought it was priority to make a swing change, thus enter Haney into picture.

Under Haney, Woods' swing was less upright, a more rotational body release that was believed to produce a longer "flat spot" at the bottom of his swing, which he believed would bring more accuracy. More importantly this flatter more around action he thought would prevent the snapping of his left knee that a more upright swing brings which he had under Harmon.

Regarding the wild misses to the right with his driver and longer clubs, Tiger was having issues staying on his right side and dipping into it to protect his left knee, weight shift issues. He also said at the time with the more rounded swing he was having issues trusting releasing the club because it felt like it would go miles left on him vs his upright swing and he would stay closed on his right side and swing out to the right. This is also why his finish/second half of the swing started looking really funny during the Haney era. Two big issues he faced with that swing change and it was all because of his knee, hence why Tiger says he can't go back to the 2000 swing because of his knee.

 

[HitEmTrue]

> @LowAndLeft32 said:

> This is an interesting topic and a topic that can be very much debated. I have also considered going without instruction. For some reason, which I can not accurately explain, golf instruction has not improved golfers scores over the last 30 years. This is despite, an increase in understanding of the golf swing, increase in video technology, and what is assumed an increase in qualified instructors. Why is this???

 

Most folks who play golf never have taken lessons. Most of those who have taken lessons are not, or were not, disciplined in their approach.

 

Lessons made a huge difference for me.

 

 

 

[Forged4ever]

> @Obee said:

> > @Krt22 said:

> > Best of luck

> >

> > My thoughts. Tiger is the greatest ball striker of all time, he has been swinging a golf club for over 40 years, been winning tournaments for 35+ years, has a golf course in his backyard, and has very possibly hit more golf balls in his life than just about any other human alive. What he can accomplish on his own and what your average amateur can accomplish on their own are literally worlds and worlds apart.

> I'm going to go Vijay Singh and Tom Kite tied at the top for hitting balls, all-time. ;-)

 

I agree with ya on Vijay & Kite though from the deceased Players I’d put hogan and Moe at the top cuz Sam said that hogan hit more balls than any Pro that he ever encountered until he met and got to know Moe. I know when Pete and I went up to Play at Moe’s Place, we drove up the evening before and got to the club the next morning about 9:00am for a 10:00ish tee time and Moe had been there since 7:00am and was on his FOURTH large bag of balls, basically 300 balls, lmao

 

WTF?????

 

He went out and had a ho-hum 69, lolol

 

I hope you’re well and have a great season Brother?

 

Maddie sends hugs and thoughts??

 

My Best,

Richard

 

 

 

 

[IcemanYVR]

There was an interview with Butch Harmon a few years ago that said Tiger has all the tools and feel to figure it out for himself, and once he did that, look out. I think we are there now, and Tiger’s new swing is his own.

[blblco02]

Tiger has now won on tour with 5 different golf swings. Lol. Another mind boggling aspect of his career.

[juststeve]

For most of the history of golf great players were much less reliant on teachers/coaches than players today and perhaps better for it. I don't remember when the practice tees at tour events first became littered with teachers/coaches but it hasn't always been so.

 

A good teacher is one that doesn't need to be around whenever you play.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Steve

[HackerD]

Previous generations of tour pros were not so dependent on swing coaches. Is the pendulum swinging back to managing your own swing (for tour pros)?

[juststeve]

> @"HackerD " said:

> Previous generations of tour pros were not so dependent on swing coaches. Is the pendulum swinging back to managing your own swing (for tour pros)?

 

Not if the coaches have have anything to say about it. Their livelihood depends on complicating the game to the point the coach becomes indispensable.

 

Steve

[iteachgolf]

> @juststeve said:

> > @"HackerD " said:

> > Previous generations of tour pros were not so dependent on swing coaches. Is the pendulum swinging back to managing your own swing (for tour pros)?

>

> Not if the coaches have have anything to say about it. Their livelihood depends on complicating the game to the point the coach becomes indispensable.

>

> Steve

 

I’d strongly disagree with that

[MK7Golf21]

> @"HackerD " said:

> Previous generations of tour pros were not so dependent on swing coaches. Is the pendulum swinging back to managing your own swing (for tour pros)?

 

Was mostly tour guys just talking and learning from each other back in the hogan days. I think with Tigers success on his own you might see that more often.

[nevets88]

With all the focus on his win, rightfully so, I barely found any interview questions on the technical and instructional aspects of his swing. Would have thought one or two questions would have made it to print or video. Curious to hear what he has to say about the swing himself. He mentioned working on shot shaping and the role of the hands. Was really hoping to hear more details. Oh well. Maybe I'll run into a video on social media of something he said at a clinic.

[Krt22]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @juststeve said:

> > > @"HackerD " said:

> > > Previous generations of tour pros were not so dependent on swing coaches. Is the pendulum swinging back to managing your own swing (for tour pros)?

> >

> > Not if the coaches have have anything to say about it. Their livelihood depends on complicating the game to the point the coach becomes indispensable.

> >

> > Steve

>

> I’d strongly disagree with that

 

As do I. I have yet to get that feeling from a single instructor. Exact opposite to be honest. I think that mentality in itself likely stems largely with one's frustration..possibly from being a poor student

[Daniel Eason]

What about him working with a putting coach recently?

I am sure he needs to work with people/peers who keep him in shape swing wise, we just don't see it.

 

[Fort Worth Pro]

There is actually plenty of smoke that he has someone he is using at a set of eyes currently. I don't know one way or the other but that is at least out there

[RichieHunt]

> @glk said:

> Tiger's SG stats from 2004-2013 form pga tour.com Haney from 2004-2010 - Foley 2010 - 2014 - Como 2014-2017

> Seems he did pretty well under Haney until after the 2008 season and injury but he really feel off under Foley in 2013. With Como he just wasn't healthy at all .

> SG OTT Dist. %fairways

> 04 31st 302 56

> 05 4th 316 55

> 06 1st 306 61

> 07 1st 302 60

> 08 wash out due to injury and only played 11 rounds

> 09 41st 298 64

> 10/11 again not enough rounds injury

> 12 14th 297 64

> 13 127th 293 62

>

 

the problem with Strokes Gained - Off the Tee is that if you're longer than the norm, it tends to overstate the driving and understate the approach shot play and vice versa. This is because SG- Off the Tee does not account for how far the golfer misses the fairway. Provided the golfer hits it the same distance...a golfer that misses the fairway by 5 feet will likely have a lower expected score than a golfer that misses the fairway by 50-feet. Again, SG - Off the Tee doesn't quantify that. My Driving Effectiveness does. And Driving Effectiveness shows that Tiger was a poor driver of the ball in the Haney era. In fact, his best year driving the ball (using Driving Effectiveness) under Haney was 2009 (ranked 57th). In fact, Grant Waite told me that Tiger and Mickelson (during this time) were two of the worst driving great players that he ever played with.

 

But, take a look at his approach shot stats under Haney. He was a great iron player every year. But in 2006-2008 he was historically great. I would have to look at the year to be specific, but there was one year he was hitting all of his Red Zone shots (175-225 yards) to an average of 30-feet. The next closest competitor was at 3 feet. That's a 3-foot difference which is phenomenal.

 

Also, during the Haney years his putting was excellent. He ranked in the top-6 in SG - Putting in 5 of those 7 years with Haney. The years he didn't, he was 20th in 2006 (still really good) and he was 109th in 2009 (after the injury).

 

But believe me...I was there at Sawgrass in 2010. He was literally popping up 3-woods off the tee and hitting them 125 yards. Regardless of what you think of Foley, that was a tall task for any teacher to overcome. Tiger may be the most gifted player of all time, but when you have a guy hitting sky mark 3-woods something has gone seriously wrong. And I think those years of awful driving under Haney have still taken its toll today because he still inexplicably struggles with the driver to the point where I think it's very mental.

 

The big thing I see him doing now is that he's not pulling the handle so hard in transition. He still 'gets stuck' on occasion, but it's not as bad as it once was. And you no longer see him set up way left and trying to bunt it/cut it to prevent that dead block or pull.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[MK7Golf21]

> @"Fort Worth Pro" said:

> There is actually plenty of smoke that he has someone he is using at a set of eyes currently. I don't know one way or the other but that is at least out there

 

Yea, I’ve heard this too when people saw some random guy walking with and conversing with Tiger all the time on range and practice. It’s his lifelong friend, that is part of his company and uses for second set of eyes, he’s done this pretty much since leaving Como. This clip explains it and explains why he left Como, according to him he can’t work on technical stuff and practice it because of the force it puts on his body and wants to keep it simple for longevity. I’m pretty sure he uses other friends like Notah to bounce ideas off as well. I would say whatever he is doing he shouldn’t change.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/golftv/status/1105889028279287808?lang=en

 

[naval2006]

I've seen a lot of players that go without instruction. They mostly play poor golf. Now if a guy like Tiger decides to go on without a teacher, he has already learned some, I think.

 

All the good players I've met have had some degree of formal instruction to play good golf, especially those who started as kids. I took my first formal lesson at 21 and I still feel sorry I didn't take lessons when I was a teenager playing tons of golf.

 

At a certain point in your golf career you go deep down and you need someone te help you. Same if you've been playing for 10 years and you still shoot in the high 80s or more. I consider that poor golf.

[PowderedToastMan]

Tiger is definitely not going at it alone. He just doesn’t have a full time swing coach anymore. He’s getting input on his swing.

 

FYI, it was Butch Harmon who said Tiger can hit any shot he wants regardless of technique. I think Tiger realized that to be true, and this latest recovery has forced Tiger to stop with the experimentation in technique and stick to a way he can swing with minimal stress on his body. I’ve seen Tiger stripe it every direction imitating Jim Furyk. Luckily for all of us, the swing he has now is beautiful to look at.

[David C]

Maybe we should all fix our own cars, fight our own legal battles and teach our own kids?

[David C]

Three things I know about golf

 

1. No one can actually definitively say ‘this great ball-striker, (s)he does this to the club, at this moment in time, and applied this much force, and their brain signalled them to do it at this point in the swing, and this is what they felt, and this is also what they intended’. Some people’s guesses however are incredibly accurate, or more to the point, are objective and get results. That’s why you would use a teacher.

 

2. Feel isn’t real or very rarely is. And shifts about. Therefore self-reliance except by necessity is going to probably not work for most golfers.

 

3. Swinging and scoring are not exactly the same. Most people did not pick up a club young enough and with the correct intention to fashion their own functional golf swing. But they might repeat it and have ‘on’ days and kid themselves their swing is better.

 

So to say ‘XYZ has done this, therefore that’s what is best for me’ makes no sense whatsoever. Individuals are rarely, especially as adults trying to learn something, objective enough to learn by themselves and in the same manner as a child.