Interesting discussion about the financial hit of golf....

[Golfer4Life]

> @physasst said:

> > @Golfer4Life said:

> > > @MaineMariner said:

> > > As a Millennial, my financial outlook is already worse than prior generations. That's not a matter of opinion, it's pretty firmly established. Millennials are saddled with more debt, less property/investments, and less secure and definite career paths. So you've gotta start from there when discussing golf's finances, at least going forward.

> > >

> > > I don't think the equipment costs are what keep people from playing. Personally, it's the greens fees that are the real killer. First of all, membership in a club is a mostly laughable proposition. Even the country clubs near me are far, FAR beyond my reach - I'd be a complete idiot to drop $5 or $10k on an entry fee. If I had $10k to spare, it'd be going to a down payment on a house, or my student loans. The public/private-ish courses that offer memberships are not much cheaper.

> > >

> > > So, I pay by the round. As a young person with a young family, I'm not getting in rounds on weeknights. That leaves me with weekend rounds on crowded courses at $50 a pop, most likely. Oh, that's including a cart, of course. I'd love the exercise of walking, and I bet a lot of people my age would as well, but the courses around me were built with carts in mind. That half mile trudge between the 3rd green and the 4th tee box isn't so nice, so a cart it is.

> > >

> > > Just how many $50 rounds can I justify per year when you factor in my already-not-positive financial situation?

> >

> > Really? The Millennial thing? You may be in a different situation, but most millennials I know, have useless college degrees, little marketable skills, and student debt after getting the aforementioned useless degree. This is a matter of choice! Don’t get in credit card debt, get a marketable degree, invest on a 401k from an early stage, and secure a career path with a skill.

> >

> > Life is mostly about choices. The choices I made in my life led me to the life I live. I made a career in law enforcement and retired at 50 with a great retirement. I invested my money wisely and this allowed me to retired at an early age. The millennial excuse it is an overreach, and in my opinion, a lazy one.

> >

> > Like I said, your situation is probably different, so my opinion is based on my experience with so called millennials.

> >

> > Golf can be played and enjoyed at a reasonable rate if one wishes to do so. Now, if people chooses to “Keep up with the Joneses”, good luck, The Joneses will always be ahead.

> >

>

> Sorry, I'm going to call a little **** on this. I'm almost 50, have 5 college degrees including 2 Masters and a PhD, and while I make money now...so much of life is simply luck. More being in the right place at the right time than anything else. The whole "bootstraps" nonsense is just that. Pure, unadulterated, nonsense. For every business that takes off and is successful, multiple others will fail. If you made great choices and your life led you to a great place, great! Good for you, but you were lucky to be born with the DNA that allowed you to make the choices you did, and you were lucky to be in the places that you were to make those choices. No one makes it on their own...that is such nonsensical crap. And, no, I'm not a millennial, and yes, I have worked hard for everything that I have...but I was also lucky to be born with the work ethic, study habits, and an ability to do well in scholarly pursuits. My family helped along the way. I had mentors that pushed me and helped me grow....I didn't purely do anything on my own. I practice medicine, and I can tell you for every successful person I see as a patient, there are 30 that are barely scraping by, can barely can feed themselves and their families, and don't have the IQ, the work ethic, or the ability to pull themselves up.

>

 

Thanks for sharing YOUR experience!

[Golfer4Life]

> @physasst said:

> > @Golfer4Life said:

> > > @MaineMariner said:

> > > As a Millennial, my financial outlook is already worse than prior generations. That's not a matter of opinion, it's pretty firmly established. Millennials are saddled with more debt, less property/investments, and less secure and definite career paths. So you've gotta start from there when discussing golf's finances, at least going forward.

> > >

> > > I don't think the equipment costs are what keep people from playing. Personally, it's the greens fees that are the real killer. First of all, membership in a club is a mostly laughable proposition. Even the country clubs near me are far, FAR beyond my reach - I'd be a complete idiot to drop $5 or $10k on an entry fee. If I had $10k to spare, it'd be going to a down payment on a house, or my student loans. The public/private-ish courses that offer memberships are not much cheaper.

> > >

> > > So, I pay by the round. As a young person with a young family, I'm not getting in rounds on weeknights. That leaves me with weekend rounds on crowded courses at $50 a pop, most likely. Oh, that's including a cart, of course. I'd love the exercise of walking, and I bet a lot of people my age would as well, but the courses around me were built with carts in mind. That half mile trudge between the 3rd green and the 4th tee box isn't so nice, so a cart it is.

> > >

> > > Just how many $50 rounds can I justify per year when you factor in my already-not-positive financial situation?

> >

> > Really? The Millennial thing? You may be in a different situation, but most millennials I know, have useless college degrees, little marketable skills, and student debt after getting the aforementioned useless degree. This is a matter of choice! Don’t get in credit card debt, get a marketable degree, invest on a 401k from an early stage, and secure a career path with a skill.

> >

> > Life is mostly about choices. The choices I made in my life led me to the life I live. I made a career in law enforcement and retired at 50 with a great retirement. I invested my money wisely and this allowed me to retired at an early age. The millennial excuse it is an overreach, and in my opinion, a lazy one.

> >

> > Like I said, your situation is probably different, so my opinion is based on my experience with so called millennials.

> >

> > Golf can be played and enjoyed at a reasonable rate if one wishes to do so. Now, if people chooses to “Keep up with the Joneses”, good luck, The Joneses will always be ahead.

> >

>

> Sorry, I'm going to call a little **** on this. I'm almost 50, have 5 college degrees including 2 Masters and a PhD, and while I make money now...so much of life is simply luck. More being in the right place at the right time than anything else. The whole "bootstraps" nonsense is just that. Pure, unadulterated, nonsense. For every business that takes off and is successful, multiple others will fail. If you made great choices and your life led you to a great place, great! Good for you, but you were lucky to be born with the DNA that allowed you to make the choices you did, and you were lucky to be in the places that you were to make those choices. No one makes it on their own...that is such nonsensical crap. And, no, I'm not a millennial, and yes, I have worked hard for everything that I have...but I was also lucky to be born with the work ethic, study habits, and an ability to do well in scholarly pursuits. My family helped along the way. I had mentors that pushed me and helped me grow....I didn't purely do anything on my own. I practice medicine, and I can tell you for every successful person I see as a patient, there are 30 that are barely scraping by, can barely can feed themselves and their families, and don't have the IQ, the work ethic, or the ability to pull themselves up.

>

 

 

You sound like a CEO this country used to have who claimed people didn’t create their own businesses and successes, lol....That’s nonsense, but I guess it has been your experience, so it is yours to share and I thank you for it.

[MelloYello]

We that are into golf sometimes forget how steep of a drop-off in interest there is outside our little circle. I just don't think golf has the wide-range appeal that folks sometimes assume. Lots of folks have money, but most people don't really like playing golf, LOL. You want an answer to why it's not more popular? Well, that's it.

 

As for price, I've always found it high, but fair. Almost anyone who wants to play can find a way to make it happen. Some might be priced out but we could say that about any hobby. Many spend money on cars, boats, music equipment, lawn maintenance and home upgrades. There are many places to put your money not to mention investments.

[andrue]

Definitely sounds more like a US thing. There are 'private' golf clubs in the UK, of course there are, but the vast majority are open and welcoming to visitors. Being a member of a club is a requirement (I think) to maintain a handicap and take part in competitions but if all you want to do is play golf a few times a month then membership is absolutely not a requirement. Some courses might have certain times blocked out (like ours runs a weekly comp Saturday morning) but generally speaking you call, book a time and play.

[Argonne69]

> @andrue said:

> Definitely sounds more like a US thing. There are 'private' golf clubs in the UK, of course there are, but the vast majority are open and welcoming to visitors. Being a member of a club is a requirement (I think) to maintain a handicap and take part in competitions but if all you want to do is play golf a few times a month then membership is absolutely not a requirement. Some courses might have certain times blocked out (like ours runs a weekly comp Saturday morning) but generally speaking you call, book a time and play.

 

The big difference is that the tax code in the U.S. almost ensures that private clubs keep outside play to a minimum. If a club were to earn too much $$$ from public play it would jeopardize their tax status.

[Kevlar10]

Lots of opinions here. I was just starting to think that there were no more discount tee times available for the taking and low and behold, I found a ridiculous one this morning for a weekend morning round. Not a muni but not a high end course. $5 for 18 and a cart!!! It may have been a mistake or a one off but I had to book it. My budget for golf this year has been $80/month. I may be able to play an extra round in June, woo hoo!

[zoned_post_meridiem]

I'm lucky to live in a place where the city parks district operates five golf courses (of varying difficulty/length, but all very competently maintained and staffed), and sells an annual pass for under $800 that includes access to all five. Granted, our season is just a little over half a year long, but this allows most people to easily afford a few rounds, and those who want to get deeper into it can do so without too much money invested.

[TIM929]

Golf is not cheap, but where else are you going to spend 40-100 bucks and have non stop fun from 3.5 to 7 hours good sir?

 

I cant speak for the almost 40 year old silver spoon fed, puppy holding, safe place, victim millennial's who @Golfer4Life has experience with..

 

But the ones who came from nothing, the single to no parent raised, war fighting, diaper changing, dish washing, being the best husband/ dad, 12 - 14 hours a day working, getting the job done millennial's who get paid.. I can't see any of us paying dues at Wilshire Country Club till we have a few M's in the bank.

 

There's just smarter ways to spend your money other then a Country Club at the age of 36..... in around 10 years, we'll mostly likely be there. For now, there's too much to invest in other then our index.

 

but, if the CC's were cheaper in Los Angeles, I would join.

[Argonne69]

Lol. My fun stops after 4:30.

[TIM929]

> @Argonne69 said:

> Lol. My fun stops after 4:30.

 

Lol, me too. hate slow play as well, just saying golf is worth the money spent :)

[Golfer4Life]

> @TIM929 said:

> Golf is not cheap, but where else are you going to spend 40-100 bucks and have non stop fun from 3.5 to 7 hours good sir?

>

> I cant speak for the almost 40 year old silver spoon fed, puppy holding, safe place, victim millennial's who @Golfer4Life has experience with..

>

> But the ones who came from nothing, the single to no parent raised, war fighting, diaper changing, dish washing, being the best husband/ dad, 12 - 14 hours a day working, getting the job done millennial's who get paid.. I can't see any of us paying dues at Wilshire Country Club till we have a few M's in the bank.

>

> There's just smarter ways to spend your money other then a Country Club at the age of 36..... in around 10 years, we'll mostly likely be there. For now, there's too much to invest in other then our index.

>

> but, if the CC's were cheaper in Los Angeles, I would join.

 

Oh stop it! Lol....

[TIM929]

> @Golfer4Life said:

> > @TIM929 said:

> > Golf is not cheap, but where else are you going to spend 40-100 bucks and have non stop fun from 3.5 to 7 hours good sir?

> >

> > I cant speak for the almost 40 year old silver spoon fed, puppy holding, safe place, victim millennial's who @Golfer4Life has experience with..

> >

> > But the ones who came from nothing, the single to no parent raised, war fighting, diaper changing, dish washing, being the best husband/ dad, 12 - 14 hours a day working, getting the job done millennial's who get paid.. I can't see any of us paying dues at Wilshire Country Club till we have a few M's in the bank.

> >

> > There's just smarter ways to spend your money other then a Country Club at the age of 36..... in around 10 years, we'll mostly likely be there. For now, there's too much to invest in other then our index.

> >

> > but, if the CC's were cheaper in Los Angeles, I would join.

>

> Oh stop it! Lol....

 

Lol, I will.. I'm sorry sir and thank you for your service.

[Golfer4Life]

> @TIM929 said:

> > @Golfer4Life said:

> > > @TIM929 said:

> > > Golf is not cheap, but where else are you going to spend 40-100 bucks and have non stop fun from 3.5 to 7 hours good sir?

> > >

> > > I cant speak for the almost 40 year old silver spoon fed, puppy holding, safe place, victim millennial's who @Golfer4Life has experience with..

> > >

> > > But the ones who came from nothing, the single to no parent raised, war fighting, diaper changing, dish washing, being the best husband/ dad, 12 - 14 hours a day working, getting the job done millennial's who get paid.. I can't see any of us paying dues at Wilshire Country Club till we have a few M's in the bank.

> > >

> > > There's just smarter ways to spend your money other then a Country Club at the age of 36..... in around 10 years, we'll mostly likely be there. For now, there's too much to invest in other then our index.

> > >

> > > but, if the CC's were cheaper in Los Angeles, I would join.

> >

> > Oh stop it! Lol....

>

> Lol, I will.. I'm sorry sir and thank you for your service.

 

Thanks buddy! It was my honor to serve my country.

[Shades234]

Maybe I'm off base, but I disagree with just about everything in this article. Golf is expensive. It's always been expensive. However, there are ways to make it less expensive. The author chooses to complain about the price instead of figure out how to make it cheaper for himself. Makes no mention of playing twilight, buying lostgolfballs, shopping sales, etc. He wants the world around him to change instead.

[MaxBuck]

> @MaineMariner said:

> As a Millennial, my financial outlook is already worse than prior generations. That's not a matter of opinion, it's pretty firmly established.

 

Actually, this is untrue.

 

Personal income in 1975 was more than 1/3 less, in constant dollars, than it is today. Median income has risen in the US fairly consistently since 1980. If you don't believe me, check out https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

 

 

[MaineMariner]

> @MaxBuck said:

> > @MaineMariner said:

> > As a Millennial, my financial outlook is already worse than prior generations. That's not a matter of opinion, it's pretty firmly established.

>

> Actually, this is untrue.

>

> Personal income in 1975 was more than 1/3 less, in constant dollars, than it is today. Median income has risen in the US fairly consistently since 1980. If you don't believe me, check out https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEPAINUSA672N

>

>

 

That doesn't say anything about Millenials, does it? Here's the main source that I was referring to in my posts:

 

https://www.stlouisfed.org/household-financial-stability/the-demographics-of-wealth/wealth-impacts-of-great-recession-on-young-families

[MaxBuck]

> @MaineMariner said:

>

> That doesn't say anything about Millenials, does it? Here's the main source that I was referring to in my posts:

>

> https://www.stlouisfed.org/household-financial-stability/the-demographics-of-wealth/wealth-impacts-of-great-recession-on-young-families

 

Actually it does.

 

I'm not suggesting Millennials have it "easy." Clearly they don't. But neither did predecessor generations.

 

We all have our challenges. Learn to overcome them and you're a winner. Whine about them about them and you're a loser. Same as it ever was.

[Paintman]

This may be a little bit out of left field. I'm a painting contractor and my income fluctuates wildly from year to year. Has been for the past 25 years. But I still play the same amount of golf and get to practice as often as I want. This year allows for $20 to $30, twice weekly rounds on local courses. I prefer to walk and play on rainout days during the week. The courses are wide open with no waiting, and often times will play 27 holes. It's honestly much more fun than a high dollar resort course that's packed.

My 2 cents. It depends on how much you value keeping up with the Jones' . I've been Mr. Jones and I've also been a Charles Dickens character. I'd much rather play golf often & anywhere, and have fun and meet interesting people. The hot dog at the turn still taste the same.

In short, for me, I think it comes down to one's attitude towards the game and also being located in a place with a tremendous amount of local clubs and courses. (Chicagoland.) There seems to be enough competition to keep the price down and the quality up.

So attitude and opportunity, plus not getting caught up in the nuclear arms race of equipment purchases. This doesn't have to be expensive.

The last private club I belonged to was bartered for wallpapering their Clubhouse. Had the same amount of fun there too.

[Paintman]

Sorry for the typos I don't know how to edit.

[Argonne69]

> @Paintman said:

> Sorry for the typos I don't know how to edit.

 

Click on the gear icon in the upper right hand corner of the post. A menu should pop up with one entry, 'Edit'.

[Mych]

The hardest part financially is that I work 9-5+ and generally have to play on weekends/holidays. So essentially I'm paying double for every round that I play. I know the courses hate it, but Golfnow and Teeoff get a lot of business from me and my group to keep the costs down. While I'm still working and raising kids I can't play enough to break even on a membership, but I'm pretty sure I'll be a member somewhere in about 5 years when my kids head off to college.

 

I think the keys to getting new, young, or cash-strapped players in are:

1) Emphasizing and cutting the cost of 9 hole rounds, especially walking or during twilight hours. Paying the 18 hole twilight rate 90 minutes before sundown is brutal.

2) Emphasize adjustment/fitting services for pre-owned clubs. Some mom & pop shops do this, but at the big box stores you're essentially on your own to try & buy if you're looking to save a few bucks buying preowned.

3) Encourage players to play a shorter setup. Create a set of "Par 3" tee boxes for new players or advertise a set of junior tees as "adult par 3" tees. 30 caps shouldn't be playing 6500-7000 yard sets of tees. Give them a way of playing the course that lets them solidify fundamentals before they grab a driver and start playing 6 hour rounds.

4) More free yardage/strategy information. Information like carry distances, distances to hazards, suggestions for how to play tricky holes... those all make the game more enjoyable, faster to play, less expensive (lost balls), and increase the perceived "value" of the course.

5) Have free "new player" range days or clinics with roaming instructors. That small investment will pay for itself. Instructors will get more lesson bookings, ranges will get more repeat customers, and quality of play will improve, which makes everyone on the course happy.

[marmaduk]

Divide the cost of the round by the time it takes to play. Golf is cheap entertainment on an hourly rate. Initial investment of $300 can get you more than what you need to golf. (Not what you want, what you need). $/time golf is cheaper than dinner with friends. Life is about priorities.

[Petethreeput]

@MaineMariner @physasst

I agree 100%.

The debt folks have coming out of college, even if it isn’t a useless degree is staggering. Which requires a delay on more debt i.e. a mortgage, and the average net worth of a homeowner is $200K v $7000 for a non-homeowner (‘08 stats last I checked) And for every guy standing on home plate celebrating a home run, they forgot they were born on third base.

Golf is an expensive game and it will always be a game perceived as a rich mans game, accurate or not, even in the 1500s (I don’t remember the century) it was outlawed as a time suck.

[RichieHunt]

A lot of people say that golf is not really declining as it simply got outrageously big and is basically regressing towards normalization. I disagree because I’ve seen it first hand. For instance, the city championship I grew up playing used to have 2 brackets of 32 players each. In order to be eligible, you had to either reside, work or be a member at one of the three clubs inside city limits. We would usually get 90+ players trying to qualify for those top-64 spots who then would play match play over the course of 2-3 weeks where they had to play 1-2 matches during a weekday. Now they have extended the limits of eligibility to having worked, reside or be a member of a club inside the COUNTY limits and they can only get about 50 players.

 

The other instance I cite is our member-guest at the club I grew up playing. It was literally a 5-year wait list to get on. I should know as I signed up when I was 13…and didn’t get to play until I was 18. Now the tournament no longer exists due to lack of interest.

 

Here’s a few big things I see with the lack of participation:

 

**1. College tuition has skyrocketed **– My niece is enrolled at an out-of-state school that will cost $41K per year in tuitiion alone. That’s $164K in college loans *if* she graduates in 4 years. For me, I make a pretty good living and live in a low cost of living area and I have zero debt and a good amount of money in the bank. It would take me roughly 7-8 years to pay off that debt and live anything that resembles a life. And I would probably have to discontinue my golf membership. She will be lucky to make 1/3rd of what I make in a year when she graduates and will have to get things like a car (I paid mine off in cash) and then all of the stupid things we do when we are out of college like racking up credit card bills.

 

**2. Working Middle Class gets less PTO than the previous generation** – My father worked for a power company and he got 4 weeks PTO and he could accrue that time off as much as he wanted. Because he was a workaholic, he ended up accruing almost 2 years worth. One summer he decided to take most of the summer off after 20+ years of working there and we got up and played golf together every day. I also refer to that as ‘The Summer of Death’ : ) as I had to get up each morning at 6am and tee off before 7. Now I get 2 weeks PTO and I can only accrue 1 more week. That’s fairly standard for middle class people. This now makes leisure activities and hobbies have to compete harder for people’s time. And if you have the choice between spending roughly the same amount of money for college football season tickets for the family or a golf membership, it’s a real tough decision to have to make.

 

**3. Golf Balls are too expensive** – Where I’m at, if you want new, premium golf balls (Pro V1, Bridgestone X S, TP5X, etc), you’re paying $4.25 a ball after tax (at least). Combine that with the design of so many courses golf because pricey and the pace of play slows down because people will go the extra mile to look for their ball. I think that is one of the greatest mistakes made in modern golf designs…it’s too easy to lose a ball and they are designed often times where it’s just questionable enough whether the ball is lost or not, so people spend way too long looking for it. Forget about the lengthening of courses, this has really hurt the game. Having grown up playing courses designed by Ross, Tillinghast, Raynor, RTJ and several local designers inspired by them, most courses you didn’t lose golf balls and if you did, it was such a bad shot that everybody knew it was gone.

 

**4. Salesmen using golf to work with clients is no longer ‘a thing.’** - It hardly exists anymore. Back in the day it was commonplace and it would force many people working for companies to learn the game in order to become better salesmen.

 

**5. Golf Betting is no longer much of ‘a thing’** – With the legalization of fantasy sports and how it’s marketed as ‘not actually gambling’, it’s taken away from something that used to draw a lot of people towards the game. People that were good athletes, liked to gamble and didn’t play in high school would learn to play golf because the betting was a fun thing to do.

 

I don’t think there’s anything we can do about #5 other than coming up with a better way to make Fantasy Golf more compelling and enticing and getting the PGA Tour to promote. I don’t care for Fantasy Football because of the setup and Fantasy Baseball just requires too much of my time. But I really get a kick out of some of the simple fantasy golf games my club has and those need to be exploited more.

 

There’s probably not much to be done about #4 other than trying to promote businesses to consider golf to entertain clients.

 

But, I think where a lot of things can be done to help out is with the design of courses. Too easy to lose golf balls and too many of them are not walkable solely due to the design having the tee boxes too far away from the previous green. Time consumption and money consumption are the two biggest reasons why more people don’t plaay and the modern designs are not helping matters any.

 

Having said all of that, we are still left with the differences in the quality of life. My grandfather never played golf. He had a 7th grade education and was a war hero. He got a job working for a power company while my grandmother worked occasionally for the census bureau. Despite that, they owned their house in a high tax state of New York, along with a few other different properties. He owned 2 cars, had 4 kids...2 of whom he paid for their college education and their weddings. He owned a small cottage with a boat. I make far more than he did and would probably be considered to be in a higher tax bracket than he was. I could probably afford the 1 house, 1 car, my current golf membership. But, I'm single with no kids...and I couldn't afford the cottage with the boat and the extra car and the wife. And he didn't have any debt and was not some super investor of his money.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

[MtlJeff]

I have seen the "country club" atmosphere die around where I am from for sure. Clubs that sold the "go play golf while your wife hangs out by the pool" lifestyle no longer exist. I think that is a result of more women working and wanting their weekends to themselves to do their own activities, and rightfully so.

 

A lot of people still play golf here, and a lot of the top courses are full or doing fine (royal Montreal, Beaconsfield etc) . I think the members have changed a lot though....a lot more playing and heading home rather than hanging out all day.

 

But the mid tier courses struggle because of time as much as money. I know a ton of guys that just play public courses because paying 5k for a membership when you can only play 35 rounds a year doesn't make sense. And they can't play more than that due to weather and the fact that their family life doesn't allow them to play 60 times. The top courses don't worry about this as much because their members make enough that it doesn't need to be "worth it".

 

 

[dan360]

There are as many ways to play 'cheap' golf as there are to play 'expensive' golf. I can go play unlimited golf right now until dark for $20 at three courses within a 45 minute drive and I live in the sticks. One course is a 10 min drive away.

 

There is an unfortunate pretentious vibe amongst many lately that in order to 'enjoy' golf, one must join an expensive club and/or refuse to play any course that costs less than $50/round, while only having name brand equipment less than 2 years old.

 

The 'muni' thing I never understood. People say 'muni' with aversion and disgust, like playing there give you herpes or something. Bethpage Black is a 'muni' for cryin' out loud. So is Chambers Bay. There are thousands of AMAZING golf courses in the world that are owned by the local city, county, state, and even the Feds. Eagle's Pride GC at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, WA is a GREAT track. Open to the public, with Samuel Adams on tap in the restaurant. Cheap, too.

https://jblm.armymwr.com/programs/eagles-pride-golf-course

 

It's marketing BS and sad really but it's the world we live in, in America at least.

[MtlJeff]

> @dan360 said:

> There are as many ways to play 'cheap' golf as there are to play 'expensive' golf. I can go play unlimited golf right now until dark for $20 at three courses within a 45 minute drive and I live in the sticks. One course is a 10 min drive away.

>

> There is an unfortunate pretentious vibe amongst many lately that in order to 'enjoy' golf, one must join an expensive club and/or refuse to play any course that costs less than $50/round, while only having name brand equipment less than 2 years old.

>

> The 'muni' thing I never understood. People say 'muni' with aversion and disgust, like playing there give you herpes or something. Bethpage Black is a 'muni' for cryin' out loud. So is Chambers Bay. There are thousands of AMAZING golf courses in the world that are owned by the local city, county, state, and even the Feds. Eagle's Pride GC at Joint Base Lewis-McChord, WA is a GREAT track. Open to the public, with Samuel Adams on tap in the restaurant. Cheap, too.

> https://jblm.armymwr.com/programs/eagles-pride-golf-course

>

> It's marketing BS and sad really but it's the world we live in, in America at least.

 

There are some great public tracks around here, including a couple that are top 100 Quebec golf courses within 25 minutes of where I live.

 

The challenge with public courses here though is you can't play in less than 5 hours on a weekend, unless you get lucky. They stuff the course with tee times like 5 minutes apart and people are slower.

Private courses have better pace of play. To me it's worth even a couple grand a year

[dan360]

I'd reckon there is a lot more golf availability than many people want to admit to be willing to 'lower themselves' to play. I see it every day.

[596]

I don't think "growing the game" needs to mean making it cheaper for anyone to play. I can compare golf as a hobby to either snow skiing or triathlons. All three are as expensive as you make it. Some people can afford to play, even on a budget and some cannot afford to play any of them, on any budget. I've raced and trained and was competitive in triathlons on a $300 bike, a pair of swim trunks, and cheap running shoes. Total invested well less then $500. BTW - race entry fees, racing nearly every weekend, are much higher then a round of golf. And we won't get into travel expenses. Now you can also go the $12,000 bike, the $400 dollar swim skin and the $300 running shoes. Been there, done that, too. Golf is the same. People don't need $2000 irons, $800 driver, $300 shoes, $400 bags, brand new golf balls, etc. You can.....but its not needed to score and play the game. You make the game as expensive or as cheap as you can afford.

 

I guess what I'm saying is reducing greens fees may not be the answer. If you find the fees too much then you've maybe spent too much on gear? I'd love to have cheap greens fees, but you'll pay the price on quality. Some don't care, some do, its up to you. I personally hate paying a penny for a round of golf. I play 3-4 days a week and would go broke, so I volunteer at the local course for a membership.

 

There are ways to play any sport, you have to make choices. Asking businesses to reduce fees, thus profits, so more can play, is not the way to do it. As a side note, as you reduce the fee, you increase play, thus more damage and wear and tear and eventually the fees have to go back up to keep up the quality everyone expects. There's a fine line to run between fees and the amount of play. Too cheap, you increase play and you cause more damage and thus increase maintenance costs. But! too expensive and you reduce play and don't make enough money to stay in business. Its a very fine line. There is no easy answer. Many smaller sports like golf, triathlons, cycling, snow skiing, tennis etc have been spinning this wheel for decades.

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With some of the prices I see mentioned I wouldn't be able to play too often. I live in a 55+ with 8 pretty nice courses. Annual pass is $1,550 a year and we golf year round if you don't mind the Summer heat. You can always pick up slightly used equipment at a good price here. Golf doesn't have to be expensive but your location (and age) are a big factor.