Pros and others throw USGA under the bus.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

 

Something tells me the players (and thus, the public) will never allow a US Open go off with no hitches whatsoever. The USGA will always somehow be criticized for every US Open. That's just the way it is, and the USGA has brought it on itself. The sooner the USGA embraces this fact, the better off it will be. Publicly lying about players, whining back, and generally shirking responsibility, is not what an organiziation deserving of respect does.

[bladehunter]

> @gvogel said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > >

> > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> >

> > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

>

> Not going to happen.

>

> The USGA has a number of excellent courses that have agreed to host the US Open in the future. The Tour would not want to take on holding regional and sectional qualifying. This is all a bunch of noise by the pros. And the USGA has that juicy TV contract with Fox that runs a few more years.

>

> Let's say that a bunch of the pros did boycott the US Open. What happens? The European guys will still play, as they don't seem to be too perturbed. College ams will play. The public will suspect that the pampered boycotting pros are boycotting because the greens are too fast. How does that go over?

>

> I suspect that John Bodenhamer, who is taking over for Mike Davis in setting up the course, will go a bit conservative this year, perhaps because Pebble is exposed to the elements and if the greens are too fast, play would need to be stopped. I think that we will have a competitive US Open with somewhat lower scoring than previously, unless it is really windy.

 

I disagree. If a majority of american pros didn’t play tv ratings would sink fast. Tv contracts wouldnt be renewed etc. the public would eat the USga for lunch. You can forecast exactly how many will watch ams and Europeans tour guys play by cross referencing the euro tour coverage and the ncaa/USga am coverage now. It’s not going to be more People than a mashing together of those known numbers. People aren’t watching to cheer on the USga.

[bladehunter]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

 

 

If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

[bladehunter]

> @LICC said:

> .> @davep043 said:

> > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > > > >

> > > > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> > > >

> > > > LOL yes. Warning shots. The players are great at those, not so much at any real action. All bark. I WISH some of the players would try to bite back. Let's see if the players are bigger than the game.

> > >

> > > Someone needs to remind the USGA that they aren't bigger than the game either. PGA tour has more money and more clout. If the usga keeps **** it will eventually happen.

> >

> > For all the complaints, there were claims that 10 or maybe 15 players would boycott, and that was based largely on the DJ ruling situation. I have a hard time believing that any more than that would actually choose to turn down a chance at the biggest purse of the season, the chance for the FedEx Cup points that go with it, and the chance to win a major. These are individuals, not a unified mass, there are too many conflicting motivations for them ever to do this. It might be fun to talk about "putting the USGA in its place", but its not going to happen in any meaningful way.

>

> I can't see Tiger or Phil boycotting the US Open the next few years, due to unhappiness with the USGA. Not a chance. Phil is going for his Grand Slam and the next two years are probably his last decent chances. Tiger is not going to bypass a major in the few years left he has to shoot for 18. As long as those two play, there would be so much interest and ratings that I don't think it would matter much at all if anyone else boycotted.

 

Did you miss him not playing at Erin hills ? Phil would certainly boycott for actual change. He’s already missed one , soft easy one for a family function.

[North Texas]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

>

> Something tells me the players (and thus, the public) will never allow a US Open go off with no hitches whatsoever. The USGA will always somehow be criticized for every US Open. That's just the way it is, and the USGA has brought it on itself. The sooner the USGA embraces this fact, the better off it will be. Publicly lying about players, whining back, and generally shirking responsibility, is not what an organiziation deserving of respect does.

 

Pretty good summation right. About the only you left out is that the players also fit the same description you gave the USGA. They will publicly lie about the USGA, they will also whine, and they will also shirk their responsibility. Both sides are pretty much on equal footing in all this hullabaloo.

[North Texas]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

>

>

> If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

 

Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> >

> > Something tells me the players (and thus, the public) will never allow a US Open go off with no hitches whatsoever. The USGA will always somehow be criticized for every US Open. That's just the way it is, and the USGA has brought it on itself. The sooner the USGA embraces this fact, the better off it will be. Publicly lying about players, whining back, and generally shirking responsibility, is not what an organiziation deserving of respect does.

>

> Pretty good summation right. About the only you left out is that the players also fit the same description you gave the USGA. They will publicly lie about the USGA, they will also whine, and they will also shirk their responsibility. Both sides are pretty much on equal footing in all this hullabaloo.

 

Yep. But, one side purports to be "in charge". If you want to be in charge of anything, and you can't take criticism (warranted or not), you don't have the stomach to be in charge. This is especially true when the side proclaiming to be in charge absolutely needs the other side, and fails at every turn to recognize that fact.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> >

> >

> > If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

>

> Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

 

Are you able to name three this decade?

[umassgolfer]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > >

> > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > >

> > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> >

> > Not going to happen.

> >

> > The USGA has a number of excellent courses that have agreed to host the US Open in the future. The Tour would not want to take on holding regional and sectional qualifying. This is all a bunch of noise by the pros. And the USGA has that juicy TV contract with Fox that runs a few more years.

> >

> > Let's say that a bunch of the pros did boycott the US Open. What happens? The European guys will still play, as they don't seem to be too perturbed. College ams will play. The public will suspect that the pampered boycotting pros are boycotting because the greens are too fast. How does that go over?

> >

> > I suspect that John Bodenhamer, who is taking over for Mike Davis in setting up the course, will go a bit conservative this year, perhaps because Pebble is exposed to the elements and if the greens are too fast, play would need to be stopped. I think that we will have a competitive US Open with somewhat lower scoring than previously, unless it is really windy.

>

> If a majority of american pros didn’t play tv ratings would sink fast. Tv contracts wouldnt be renewed etc. the public would eat the USga for lunch.

 

Yes and if the USGA was better run we wouldn't be having this conversation. Neither is going to happen anytime soon though. As was pointed out, enough players have their own motivations. Notably $$$, which the US Open pays more than any other tournament on TOUR. Plus, Fox's deal was 12 years starting 2015, so USGA realistically has until 2025 when it goes back up for bid with little to no repercussions from the "broadcast revenue" take. Fox wouldn't be happy, but dem's the breaks.

 

Like rangersgoalie pointed out, and he would know - this is not new. Players have been threatening action against USGA for generations. No revolt or mass boycott that I can recall...But now with sensationalist 24/7 news cycle, exasperated by every 26 year-old 1-time major winner having an open mic to the world, there's less to filter it.

 

To be clear, BladeHunter, we are on the same side. We both want the USGA to do better. Only difference is I think the TOUR players acting like spoiled brats gives USGA leeway to dismiss their criticisms wholesale as "those guys are never happy".

[CT007]

US Women’s open currently in weather delay.

Someone at FS1 knows how USGA runs events. On screen they are showing scoreboard that says

“Play susopended due to dangerous weather” in red left side, and also on same scoreboard “ “suspend due to “non dangerous conditions “ “

 

So which is it USGA ?

[North Texas]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> > >

> > >

> > > If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

> >

> > Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

>

> Are you able to name three this decade?

 

Why limit it to just this decade? And, just for clarification, are we talking about just "real" hitches or do I have include "imagined" hitches?

 

Now, being serious, tell me which ones have not had rain. I don't have the inclination or desire to research that myself.

[LICC]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @LICC said:

> > .> @davep043 said:

> > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> > > > >

> > > > > LOL yes. Warning shots. The players are great at those, not so much at any real action. All bark. I WISH some of the players would try to bite back. Let's see if the players are bigger than the game.

> > > >

> > > > Someone needs to remind the USGA that they aren't bigger than the game either. PGA tour has more money and more clout. If the usga keeps **** it will eventually happen.

> > >

> > > For all the complaints, there were claims that 10 or maybe 15 players would boycott, and that was based largely on the DJ ruling situation. I have a hard time believing that any more than that would actually choose to turn down a chance at the biggest purse of the season, the chance for the FedEx Cup points that go with it, and the chance to win a major. These are individuals, not a unified mass, there are too many conflicting motivations for them ever to do this. It might be fun to talk about "putting the USGA in its place", but its not going to happen in any meaningful way.

> >

> > I can't see Tiger or Phil boycotting the US Open the next few years, due to unhappiness with the USGA. Not a chance. Phil is going for his Grand Slam and the next two years are probably his last decent chances. Tiger is not going to bypass a major in the few years left he has to shoot for 18. As long as those two play, there would be so much interest and ratings that I don't think it would matter much at all if anyone else boycotted.

>

> Did you miss him not playing at Erin hills ? Phil would certainly boycott for actual change. He’s already missed one , soft easy one for a family function.

 

That was for his daughter. That was more important than the US Open. Not playing because he doesn't like the USGA is not nearly the same thing. He would not skip a US Open and a chance for the Grand Slam for that. No way.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

> > >

> > > Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

> >

> > Are you able to name three this decade?

>

> Why limit it to just this decade? And, just for clarification, are we talking about just "real" hitches or do I have include "imagined" hitches?

>

> Now, being serious, tell me which ones have not had rain. I don't have the inclination or desire to research that myself.

 

1. Why limit it to this decade? Recency. That's when the majority of the field played the majority of their US Opens.

2. Imagined hitches v. real hitches? Subjective, and doesn't much matter, as explained in previous posts re: USGA perception.

 

3. I didn't make the claim: "[P]lenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain.", but the ones without rain AND without a hitch since 2009 are: 2014, 2012, and 2010 (although 2010 was pretty damp on Sunday). Maybe there were hitches in setups those three years that I don't remember. So, the USGA has been 33% in the previous 10 US Opens. Great stat for a utility infielder.

 

[bladehunter]

> @umassgolfer said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @gvogel said:

> > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > > >

> > > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > > >

> > > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> > >

> > > Not going to happen.

> > >

> > > The USGA has a number of excellent courses that have agreed to host the US Open in the future. The Tour would not want to take on holding regional and sectional qualifying. This is all a bunch of noise by the pros. And the USGA has that juicy TV contract with Fox that runs a few more years.

> > >

> > > Let's say that a bunch of the pros did boycott the US Open. What happens? The European guys will still play, as they don't seem to be too perturbed. College ams will play. The public will suspect that the pampered boycotting pros are boycotting because the greens are too fast. How does that go over?

> > >

> > > I suspect that John Bodenhamer, who is taking over for Mike Davis in setting up the course, will go a bit conservative this year, perhaps because Pebble is exposed to the elements and if the greens are too fast, play would need to be stopped. I think that we will have a competitive US Open with somewhat lower scoring than previously, unless it is really windy.

> >

> > If a majority of american pros didn’t play tv ratings would sink fast. Tv contracts wouldnt be renewed etc. the public would eat the USga for lunch.

>

> Yes and if the USGA was better run we wouldn't be having this conversation. Neither is going to happen anytime soon though. As was pointed out, enough players have their own motivations. Notably $$$, which the US Open pays more than any other tournament on TOUR. Plus, Fox's deal was 12 years starting 2015, so USGA realistically has until 2025 when it goes back up for bid with little to no repercussions from the "broadcast revenue" take. Fox wouldn't be happy, but dem's the breaks.

>

> Like rangersgoalie pointed out, and he would know - this is not new. Players have been threatening action against USGA for generations. No revolt or mass boycott that I can recall...But now with sensationalist 24/7 news cycle, exasperated by every 26 year-old 1-time major winner having an open mic to the world, there's less to filter it.

>

> To be clear, BladeHunter, we are on the same side. We both want the USGA to do better. Only difference is I think the TOUR players acting like spoiled brats gives USGA leeway to dismiss their criticisms wholesale as "those guys are never happy".

 

I see what you’re saying. I just know that there is a fine line form the boomers crying “ get off my lawn and quit crying” to the millennials “ crying about everything “. The truth lies in the middle of all that. They may cry too much. Sure. But as you said there is a reason to “ cry”. So it’s hard for me to side with the ones who just want to cry about ...crying.... lol. How’s that for hijinx?

[North Texas]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

> > > >

> > > > Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

> > >

> > > Are you able to name three this decade?

> >

> > Why limit it to just this decade? And, just for clarification, are we talking about just "real" hitches or do I have include "imagined" hitches?

> >

> > Now, being serious, tell me which ones have not had rain. I don't have the inclination or desire to research that myself.

>

> 1. Why limit it to this decade? Recency. That's when the majority of the field played the majority of their US Opens.

> 2. Imagined hitches v. real hitches? Subjective, and doesn't much matter, as explained in previous posts re: USGA perception.

>

> 3. I didn't make the claim: "[P]lenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain.", but the ones without rain AND without a hitch since 2009 are: 2014, 2012, and 2010 (although 2010 was pretty damp on Sunday). Maybe there were hitches in setups those three years that I don't remember. So, the USGA has been 33% in the previous 10 US Opens. Great stat for a utility infielder.

>

 

Yea, it's pretty much all subjective. Plus a lot of confirmation bias.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

> @"North Texas" said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

> > > > >

> > > > > Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

> > > >

> > > > Are you able to name three this decade?

> > >

> > > Why limit it to just this decade? And, just for clarification, are we talking about just "real" hitches or do I have include "imagined" hitches?

> > >

> > > Now, being serious, tell me which ones have not had rain. I don't have the inclination or desire to research that myself.

> >

> > 1. Why limit it to this decade? Recency. That's when the majority of the field played the majority of their US Opens.

> > 2. Imagined hitches v. real hitches? Subjective, and doesn't much matter, as explained in previous posts re: USGA perception.

> >

> > 3. I didn't make the claim: "[P]lenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain.", but the ones without rain AND without a hitch since 2009 are: 2014, 2012, and 2010 (although 2010 was pretty damp on Sunday). Maybe there were hitches in setups those three years that I don't remember. So, the USGA has been 33% in the previous 10 US Opens. Great stat for a utility infielder.

> >

>

> Yea, it's pretty much all subjective. Plus a lot of confirmation bias.

 

And that's just it, isn't it? You can be the best carpet cleaner in the world, but if everyone thinks you're an awful carpet cleaner, it might be time to listen to those whose carpets you clean to get them on your side. Or, you can make up lies about them and whine about it. Which one do you think would be better for biz?

[Golfer4Life]

I used to support the USGA until I realized they were a destructive force in golf. From destroying golf courses to satisfy their own egos to not giving two shoits about veterans.

 

No thank you!

[gvogel]

> @CT007 said:

> US Women’s open currently in weather delay.

> Someone at FS1 knows how USGA runs events. On screen they are showing scoreboard that says

> “Play susopended due to dangerous weather” in red left side, and also on same scoreboard “ “suspend due to “non dangerous conditions “ “

>

> So which is it USGA ?

 

What, really? You're going to make an issue over a lightning storm that went through there, with a tree on the course being split by lightning?

 

The hate for the USGA has gone way overboard on this site. Sure, they are an easy target. But I think that many of us can agree that trying to run a tournament where the conditions are as difficult as the players will face all year, is difficult. On the other hand, you can defend the USGA for the overall quality of champions that they identify more often than not. Hey, a Jack Fleck or Webb Simpson emerges as champion from time to time, but the greats are known for their majors, of which the US Open is one.

 

As a matter of fact, when you look as those golfers who have won just the US Open and the Open Championship, you come up with a rarefied list of winners. At 7 each, you have Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus. At 6 you have Walter Hagen, Tom Watson and Tiger Woods. That's enough to tell me that the USGA is doing a fine job. Perfect? Of course not. But they get the job done as looking at champions over a period of time.

[BottleCap]

The current generation of PGA Tour golfers are so soft it's amazing. Tiger won a US Open with a broken leg. Suck it up.

[Darth Putter]

> @gvogel said:

> > @CT007 said:

> > US Women’s open currently in weather delay.

> > Someone at FS1 knows how USGA runs events. On screen they are showing scoreboard that says

> > “Play susopended due to dangerous weather” in red left side, and also on same scoreboard “ “suspend due to “non dangerous conditions “ “

> >

> > So which is it USGA ?

>

> What, really? You're going to make an issue over a lightning storm that went through there, with a tree on the course being split by lightning?

>

> The hate for the USGA has gone way overboard on this site. Sure, they are an easy target. But I think that many of us can agree that trying to run a tournament where the conditions are as difficult as the players will face all year, is difficult. On the other hand, you can defend the USGA for the overall quality of champions that they identify more often than not. Hey, a Jack Fleck or Webb Simpson emerges as champion from time to time, but the greats are known for their majors, of which the US Open is one.

>

> As a matter of fact, when you look as those golfers who have won just the US Open and the Open Championship, you come up with a rarefied list of winners. At 7 each, you have Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus. At 6 you have Walter Hagen, Tom Watson and Tiger Woods. That's enough to tell me that the USGA is doing a fine job. Perfect? Of course not. But they get the job done as looking at champions over a period of time.

 

On the other hand, Andy North has won as many US Opens as Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Seve Ballesteros, Nick Faldo and Phil Mickelson combined.

 

[BottleCap]

> @"Darth Putter" said:

> > @gvogel said:

> > > @CT007 said:

> > > US Women’s open currently in weather delay.

> > > Someone at FS1 knows how USGA runs events. On screen they are showing scoreboard that says

> > > “Play susopended due to dangerous weather” in red left side, and also on same scoreboard “ “suspend due to “non dangerous conditions “ “

> > >

> > > So which is it USGA ?

> >

> > What, really? You're going to make an issue over a lightning storm that went through there, with a tree on the course being split by lightning?

> >

> > The hate for the USGA has gone way overboard on this site. Sure, they are an easy target. But I think that many of us can agree that trying to run a tournament where the conditions are as difficult as the players will face all year, is difficult. On the other hand, you can defend the USGA for the overall quality of champions that they identify more often than not. Hey, a Jack Fleck or Webb Simpson emerges as champion from time to time, but the greats are known for their majors, of which the US Open is one.

> >

> > As a matter of fact, when you look as those golfers who have won just the US Open and the Open Championship, you come up with a rarefied list of winners. At 7 each, you have Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus. At 6 you have Walter Hagen, Tom Watson and Tiger Woods. That's enough to tell me that the USGA is doing a fine job. Perfect? Of course not. But they get the job done as looking at champions over a period of time.

>

> On the other hand, Andy North has won as many US Opens as Sam Snead, Arnold Palmer, Tom Watson, Seve Ballesteros, Nick Faldo and Phil Mickelson combined.

>

 

Phil Mickelson showed how big his nuts are at Winged Foot

 

 

[nsxguy]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @nsxguy said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > > > > > Justin saying "we don't want to be bratty" seems kind of hollow. What I'd like to see from him is more long-form criticisms, rather than twitter-b**ching. If there are problems, and there certainly have been some with the US Open at times, they're not going to be addressed in 140 characters or less. That will also require a media outlet willing to publish longer-form discussions, and readers willing to go past the big print on the first page of the article.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The USGA doesn't need any more input from anybody. They have received valuable input for quite some time from a variety of sources. They just need to quit worshipping par and quit trying to take the greens to the edge of unplayable.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > What's wrong with testing the limits of professional golfers?

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Nothing. It’s when they cross the limits of the course that heads should roll.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Let's test that logic and look at this from a circumstance to which all of us can relate. So when the grounds people at your club put too much sand on the a few greens after punching, the club should fire the people involved with the decision about who purchased the sand?

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > I don’t follow.

> > > > >

> > > > > I’m saying that when the USga pushes greens to the point of having to paint them because they are dying , then it’s past too far and whom ever made the decision to push them too far shouldn’t be there anymore.

> > > >

> > > > You're saying people should get fired over a course set up, correct?

> > > > What people, and what legal reason would you or Mr. Hogan use to terminate those people?

> > > > It's dirt and grass.

> > > >

> > >

> > > Insubordination? Dereliction of duty ? In South Carolina we’d just say “ let me have your keys. Checks in the mail , best of luck “. No need for a reason.

> > >

> > > Course setup isn’t what I’m saying. Lack of care in attempts to make greens faster is what I’m saying. As in “ would any greens have died or been severely harmed if no us open this week on this course “? If answer is no , then I don’t understand why it happens short of on purpose. So the responsible parties should find other things to do. Simple.

> > >

> > > Incase we forget. **This wasn’t due to weather.** This was due to ego. They’ve tried to let it go thus far a couple times since.

> > >

> > > https://www.golfchannel.com/video/last-time-shinnecock-no-7-gets-out-control

> >

> > LOL. Firstly this was FIFTEEN years ago.

> >

> > Secondly, you post a silly video instead of trying to find something on it ?

> >

> > "It wasn't due to the weather" ??? Really ?

> >

> > "Mike Davis acknowledged the trying conditions that everyone faced seven years ago, **when sun and wind dried out several of Shinnecock's greens on Sunday** and threatened to compromise the championship."

> >

> > "It was a great learning experience," Davis said. "When it comes to a U.S. Open, you've got the world's best players, and you're **trying to set it up as the hardest event of the year. It's easy to go from that point to having a setup where well-executed shots are penalized**. And that's exactly what was happening on some of the holes."

> >

> > [https://golfdigest.com/story/with-return-to-shinnecock-usga-turns-page-on-2004-mess](https://www.golfdigest.com/story/with-return-to-shinnecock-usga-turns-page-on-2004-mess "https://golfdigest.com/story/with-return-to-shinnecock-usga-turns-page-on-2004-mess")

> >

> > Or even

> >

> > "Dropping by the NBC booth Sunday morning, then USGA president and now **Augusta National chairman Fred Ridley defended the seventh hole setup, saying it was caused by a “perfect storm” of wind, sun, hole location** and the alleged accidental rolling. When NBC’s Dan Hicks joked that they’d gone from talking about growing the game to growing grass, Ridley didn’t laugh."

> >

> > [https://golfweek.com/2018/06/08/shinnecock-hills-left-major-legacy-on-golf-with-2004-u-s-open/](https://golfweek.com/2018/06/08/shinnecock-hills-left-major-legacy-on-golf-with-2004-u-s-open/ "https://golfweek.com/2018/06/08/shinnecock-hills-left-major-legacy-on-golf-with-2004-u-s-open/")

>

> You do know that man has ways of combating wind and sun , yes ? And that answer isn’t 22 seconds with a syringe hose.

 

You said ti wasn't due to weather.

 

I post articles that says it was.

 

And your response is, "Ummmmmm, look at the pretty rainbow". LOL

 

Good one !!!

[CT007]

> @gvogel said:

> > @CT007 said:

> > US Women’s open currently in weather delay.

> > Someone at FS1 knows how USGA runs events. On screen they are showing scoreboard that says

> > “Play susopended due to dangerous weather” in red left side, and also on same scoreboard “ “suspend due to “non dangerous conditions “ “

> >

> > So which is it USGA ?

>

> What, really? You're going to make an issue over a lightning storm that went through there, with a tree on the course being split by lightning?

>

> The hate for the USGA has gone way overboard on this site. Sure, they are an easy target. But I think that many of us can agree that trying to run a tournament where the conditions are as difficult as the players will face all year, is difficult. On the other hand, you can defend the USGA for the overall quality of champions that they identify more often than not. Hey, a Jack Fleck or Webb Simpson emerges as champion from time to time, but the greats are known for their majors, of which the US Open is one.

>

> As a matter of fact, when you look as those golfers who have won just the US Open and the Open Championship, you come up with a rarefied list of winners. At 7 each, you have Harry Vardon, Bobby Jones and Jack Nicklaus. At 6 you have Walter Hagen, Tom Watson and Tiger Woods. That's enough to tell me that the USGA is doing a fine job. Perfect? Of course not. But they get the job done as looking at champions over a period of time.

 

 

I think the matter of weather , as illustrated by the lighting is a dangerous matter. Life, safety matter. I normally assume well run organizations recoignize these important matters and take them seriously.

 

While this is small example, as the lighting struck the tree shows, it is pretty important detail to get right.

[bladehunter]

> @nsxguy said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @nsxguy said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > > > > @Ferguson said:

> > > > > > > > > > @Roadking2003 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > > > > > > Justin saying "we don't want to be bratty" seems kind of hollow. What I'd like to see from him is more long-form criticisms, rather than twitter-b**ching. If there are problems, and there certainly have been some with the US Open at times, they're not going to be addressed in 140 characters or less. That will also require a media outlet willing to publish longer-form discussions, and readers willing to go past the big print on the first page of the article.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > The USGA doesn't need any more input from anybody. They have received valuable input for quite some time from a variety of sources. They just need to quit worshipping par and quit trying to take the greens to the edge of unplayable.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > What's wrong with testing the limits of professional golfers?

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Nothing. It’s when they cross the limits of the course that heads should roll.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Let's test that logic and look at this from a circumstance to which all of us can relate. So when the grounds people at your club put too much sand on the a few greens after punching, the club should fire the people involved with the decision about who purchased the sand?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I don’t follow.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I’m saying that when the USga pushes greens to the point of having to paint them because they are dying , then it’s past too far and whom ever made the decision to push them too far shouldn’t be there anymore.

> > > > >

> > > > > You're saying people should get fired over a course set up, correct?

> > > > > What people, and what legal reason would you or Mr. Hogan use to terminate those people?

> > > > > It's dirt and grass.

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Insubordination? Dereliction of duty ? In South Carolina we’d just say “ let me have your keys. Checks in the mail , best of luck “. No need for a reason.

> > > >

> > > > Course setup isn’t what I’m saying. Lack of care in attempts to make greens faster is what I’m saying. As in “ would any greens have died or been severely harmed if no us open this week on this course “? If answer is no , then I don’t understand why it happens short of on purpose. So the responsible parties should find other things to do. Simple.

> > > >

> > > > Incase we forget. **This wasn’t due to weather.** This was due to ego. They’ve tried to let it go thus far a couple times since.

> > > >

> > > > https://www.golfchannel.com/video/last-time-shinnecock-no-7-gets-out-control

> > >

> > > LOL. Firstly this was FIFTEEN years ago.

> > >

> > > Secondly, you post a silly video instead of trying to find something on it ?

> > >

> > > "It wasn't due to the weather" ??? Really ?

> > >

> > > "Mike Davis acknowledged the trying conditions that everyone faced seven years ago, **when sun and wind dried out several of Shinnecock's greens on Sunday** and threatened to compromise the championship."

> > >

> > > "It was a great learning experience," Davis said. "When it comes to a U.S. Open, you've got the world's best players, and you're **trying to set it up as the hardest event of the year. It's easy to go from that point to having a setup where well-executed shots are penalized**. And that's exactly what was happening on some of the holes."

> > >

> > > [https://golfdigest.com/story/with-return-to-shinnecock-usga-turns-page-on-2004-mess](https://www.golfdigest.com/story/with-return-to-shinnecock-usga-turns-page-on-2004-mess "https://golfdigest.com/story/with-return-to-shinnecock-usga-turns-page-on-2004-mess")

> > >

> > > Or even

> > >

> > > "Dropping by the NBC booth Sunday morning, then USGA president and now **Augusta National chairman Fred Ridley defended the seventh hole setup, saying it was caused by a “perfect storm” of wind, sun, hole location** and the alleged accidental rolling. When NBC’s Dan Hicks joked that they’d gone from talking about growing the game to growing grass, Ridley didn’t laugh."

> > >

> > > [https://golfweek.com/2018/06/08/shinnecock-hills-left-major-legacy-on-golf-with-2004-u-s-open/](https://golfweek.com/2018/06/08/shinnecock-hills-left-major-legacy-on-golf-with-2004-u-s-open/ "https://golfweek.com/2018/06/08/shinnecock-hills-left-major-legacy-on-golf-with-2004-u-s-open/")

> >

> > You do know that man has ways of combating wind and sun , yes ? And that answer isn’t 22 seconds with a syringe hose.

>

> You said ti wasn't due to weather.

>

> I post articles that says it was.

>

> And your response is, "Ummmmmm, look at the pretty rainbow". LOL

>

> Good one !!!

 

Lol. You water a course between rounds to combat that type weather. Not fake watering with 12 seconds of a syringe hose.

 

Yes I get and understand hotspots and syringing greens. I’ve drug many feet of hoses to do so. But not during a tournament round and certainly not the quick lick and promise spritzing they gave those greens.

[HitEmTrue]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > @"North Texas" said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > > @"North Texas" said:

> > > > > > Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > If it’s rains I’m sure it will.

> > > >

> > > > Good grief, plenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain. Laughable to think otherwise.

> > >

> > > Are you able to name three this decade?

> >

> > Why limit it to just this decade? And, just for clarification, are we talking about just "real" hitches or do I have include "imagined" hitches?

> >

> > Now, being serious, tell me which ones have not had rain. I don't have the inclination or desire to research that myself.

>

> 1. Why limit it to this decade? Recency. That's when the majority of the field played the majority of their US Opens.

> 2. Imagined hitches v. real hitches? Subjective, and doesn't much matter, as explained in previous posts re: USGA perception.

>

> 3. I didn't make the claim: "[P]lenty of US Opens have come off with no hitches when it didn't rain.", but the ones without rain AND without a hitch since 2009 are: 2014, 2012, and 2010 (although 2010 was pretty damp on Sunday). Maybe there were hitches in setups those three years that I don't remember. So, the USGA has been 33% in the previous 10 US Opens. Great stat for a utility infielder.

>

 

So if it rained it automatically falls into the 66% failure category?

 

 

[caniac6]

> @CT007 said:

> US Women’s open currently in weather delay.

> Someone at FS1 knows how USGA runs events. On screen they are showing scoreboard that says

> “Play susopended due to dangerous weather” in red left side, and also on same scoreboard “ “suspend due to “non dangerous conditions “ “

>

> So which is it USGA ?

 

One side was clearly for players and spectators. The other side was for USGA officals that were probably in the clubhouse bar whoopin' it up.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @davep043 said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > > >

> > > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > > >

> > > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> > >

> > > LOL yes. Warning shots. The players are great at those, not so much at any real action. All bark. I WISH some of the players would try to bite back. Let's see if the players are bigger than the game.

> >

> > Someone needs to remind the USGA that they aren't bigger than the game either. PGA tour has more money and more clout. If the usga keeps **** it will eventually happen.

>

> For all the complaints, there were claims that 10 or maybe 15 players would boycott, and that was based largely on the DJ ruling situation. I have a hard time believing that any more than that would actually choose to turn down a chance at the biggest purse of the season, the chance for the FedEx Cup points that go with it, and the chance to win a major. These are individuals, not a unified mass, there are too many conflicting motivations for them ever to do this. It might be fun to talk about "putting the USGA in its place", but its not going to happen in any meaningful way.

 

Dave it's 10 or 15 that were vocal, some of the biggest in the game. How many feel the same way that haven't been quoted or remain more softspoken on the topic? If it continues to be an annual clown show it can't remain the biggest event in the future. Sponsors and the tour will cool down to it, the USGA credibility and prestige will continue to erode and another event would fill the void. The USGA has earned much of the criticism they receive.

 

Maybe we will see positive changes at Pebble with Davis out. In my opinion, while not perfect, they generally moved in the right direction with some of the rules changes so maybe they are moving in the right direction. Time will tell.

[nsxguy]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > > > >

> > > > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> > > >

> > > > LOL yes. Warning shots. The players are great at those, not so much at any real action. All bark. I WISH some of the players would try to bite back. Let's see if the players are bigger than the game.

> > >

> > > Someone needs to remind the USGA that they aren't bigger than the game either. PGA tour has more money and more clout. If the usga keeps **** it will eventually happen.

> >

> > For all the complaints, there were claims that 10 or maybe 15 players would boycott, and that was based largely on the DJ ruling situation. I have a hard time believing that any more than that would actually choose to turn down a chance at the biggest purse of the season, the chance for the FedEx Cup points that go with it, and the chance to win a major. These are individuals, not a unified mass, there are too many conflicting motivations for them ever to do this. It might be fun to talk about "putting the USGA in its place", but its not going to happen in any meaningful way.

>

> Dave it's 10 or 15 that were vocal, some of the biggest in the game. How many feel the same way that haven't been quoted or remain more softspoken on the topic? If it continues to be an annual clown show it can't remain the biggest event in the future. Sponsors and the tour will cool down to it, the USGA credibility and prestige will continue to erode and another event would fill the void. The USGA has earned much of the criticism they receive.

>

> Maybe we will see positive changes at Pebble with Davis out. In my opinion, while not perfect, they generally moved in the right direction with some of the rules changes so maybe they are moving in the right direction. Time will tell.

 

How about a slightly different slant on that ? How many writers care to GET the POV of other players ? How many "other players" feel quite differently ? Or would even express an opposing pov from the TOP guys ? Not many. Who needs that kind of headache ? Who needs to be referred to as "John WHO" ??? So who knows how many of the "others" might be telling their families and caddies "What a bunch of whiny crybabies these guys are !!!" LOL

 

Can't wait to see "others fill the void". LOL

[nsxguy]

> @davep043 said:

> > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > @umassgolfer said:

> > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> > > > > > Maybe the PGA Tour should host their own open called "the new and improved open" Anything that marginalizes the usga is good by me.

> > > > >

> > > > > This seems about as likely as the PGA writing their own rules, independent of the USGA.

> > > >

> > > > It may seem like a long way off today but the reality come closer if they screw up Pebble. Warning shots have already been fired by many tour members.

> > >

> > > LOL yes. Warning shots. The players are great at those, not so much at any real action. All bark. I WISH some of the players would try to bite back. Let's see if the players are bigger than the game.

> >

> > Someone needs to remind the USGA that they aren't bigger than the game either. PGA tour has more money and more clout. If the usga keeps **** it will eventually happen.

>

> For all the complaints, there were claims that 10 or maybe 15 players would boycott, and that was based largely on the DJ ruling situation. I have a hard time believing that any more than that would actually choose to turn down a chance at the biggest purse of the season, the chance for the FedEx Cup points that go with it, and the chance to win a major. These are individuals, not a unified mass, there are too many conflicting motivations for them ever to do this. It might be fun to talk about "putting the USGA in its place", but its not going to happen in any meaningful way.

 

Was that the ball moving on the green or the bunker he grounded his club at ?

 

Because if the latter, while the USGA/marshals were at fault for letting the crowds be IN that bunker or that close to the players, he was CLEARLY in the bunker and the USGA had specifically told the players that ALL bunkers were hazards and NOT waste areas. That penalty was **DJ's** (AND his caddy's) brain meltdown.

[ebrasmus21]

> @"North Texas" said:

> Something tells me that, even if the US Open comes off with no hitches whatsoever, a lot of PGA pros and a lot of golfwrx posters will be too proud to give them credit.

 

Something tells me that if the USGA screws up, again, the USGA apologists on this board will staunchly defend them, again.