USGA? Teen DQ'd from Sectional for going to the bathroom before turning in his scorecard

[deadsolid...shank]

I’m far, far away from a USGA defender, but in this instance I really don’t see how anyone can lay the blame anywhere but on the young man.

 

He’s not playing the Back 9 County Open, he’s playing a US Open qualifier. If he’s good enough to play in this tournament (and based on what it sounds like he shot, he wasn’t in over his head) then you absolutely know he’s played a lot of tournament golf (especially if he has a parent hovering that close ((and a coach to boot, who was there at the tournament with him)). He knows the correct procedure to follow when the tournament is over, it sounds (and I say sounds because it’s pretty apparent none of us know the real true story, so we go off what we have) like he screwed up. Pretty simple. Those saying he should get a pass because of his age sound a lot like the people in favor of participation trophies. If you sign up to play a big boy event, it’s assumed you can act the part of a big boy.

[bscinstnct]

Skyler be like,

 

[RobertBaron]

USGA really needs to get tighter with their wording. “Promptly” is freaking meaningless. What is that? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10? Just make it specific. Like 10 minutes from hole out or something.

[HitEmTrue]

> @RobertBaron said:

> USGA really needs to get tighter with their wording. “Promptly” is freaking meaningless. What is that? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10? Just make it specific. Like 10 minutes from hole out or something.

 

If the scorers table is right next to the 18th green, they don’t want players to go do something else first and say “I got there within 10-minutes.” Each person is carrying someone else’s card, and such actions affect the other player. Conversely, if it’s a long walk, through thousands of folks who want to congratulate the player, the rule won’t work if it’s a very short time. Also, if someone is sick they DO allow for time. This kid didn’t communicate that situation to the officials.

 

Out of the hundreds of thousands of tournament rounds that are played, how often do you hear of someone being DQ’d? There really isn’t anything confusing about the rule.

 

[HitEmTrue]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @HitEmTrue said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > They also claim that nobody knew what this kid looks like ? What the heck does that even mean ? He just played 4 hours with competitors and a walking official. They had their eyes closed the whole time ? Lots of made up details and statements , and I can only ask , why ?

> >

> > There was no one who knew what he looked like that was available to go wandering around the property looking for him. The two guys in the scoring area weren’t going to leave the scoring area to look for him.

>

> Just mentioned that was an odd thing for a USga spokesperson to say who wasn’t even on site.

 

Again, the news doesn’t always give context. Reporters could have been asking him all sorts of questions, like “why didn’t someone go find him?” Assuming that he knows what it’s like at one of those events, he could have been trying to explain that it isn’t a practical matter, because who would do that task? They don’t know what he looks like. When the story gets written, they take the small sound bytes and run with it.

 

[sui generis]

> @RobertBaron said:

> USGA really needs to get tighter with their wording. “Promptly” is freaking meaningless. What is that? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10? Just make it specific. Like 10 minutes from hole out or something.

 

Tournament players, with one notable exception, do not need "promptly" explained to them.

[BMC]

Was his scorecard attested and signed before the competition ended? If, so, he should not have been DQed.

Ridiculous rule.

[bladehunter]

> @"15th Club" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > > > Of course, but we learn from them. Well most of us do anyways.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > As to this story, I've yet to see where they are wrong here.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, lets start with this,

> > > > >

> > > > > “Brian DePasquale, manager of championship communications for the USGA, confirmed Skyler Fox's disqualification, writing in an email to Golfweek that Fox "went to lunch and did not enter the scoring area until the following group had returned their cards."”

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > So, if he did not go to lunch

> > > > > Why is the “manager of championship communications for the USGA” making a written communication to Golfweek that he did?

> > > > >

> > > > > The statement is either

> > > > >

> > > > > Correct or not correct.

> > > > >

> > > > > If it is not correct, then it is a

> > > > >

> > > > > False statement made by a USGA communications manager? A false statement, not necessarily intentional, but quite an error for a communication manager.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > Why was it made? Why hasn’t it been retracted?

> > > >

> > > > Well, let's also keep in mind this great quote from the USGA communications manager: “nobody knew what he looked like.” I'd like someone to explain how this statement is true. We know that he played with two other people, both of whom would have presumably known what he looked like. Apparently, the player's dad and swing coach were in the vicinity of the scorer's table, and they likely know what he looks like.

> > > >

> > > > The simple fact of the matter is that there a bunch of facts that don't add up, and I see no reason to give the benefit of the doubt to the USGA when they have not earned that right; in fact, they have shown that they make false statements and then have to retract them.

> > > >

> > > > I'm not saying the kid is completely blameless, because he is not. However, this situation could have been handled much differently and in a way that didn't leave the USGA open to attack.

> > >

> > >

> > > We went through that. My simple (obvious?) presumption was that “nobody” among the scoring officials in the scoring area knew what Skyler looked like. Skyler’s father was not there to say, “He needed his medication; he has the scorecard with him and he’ll be here in just a few minutes.” Skyler’s caddy/coach was not there to offer that communication either. It apparently would have forestalled the whole problem.

> > >

> > > The fellow competitors were working on their cards.

> > >

> > > So of the people who could have gone on a hunt for Skyler in the clubhouse and the parking lot, “nobody” knew what he looked like.

> > >

> > > This is the second, and hopefully last, time that we have to follow that literalist backwater.

> > >

> > > Oh; and since you brought it up, I see EVERY reason to explore giving the USGA the benefit of the doubt here. Time and time and time again, large numbers of GolfWRX commenters make the knee-jerk presumption that the USGA is to blame in any controversy. Routinely, they are not. This is certainly not the first, and won’t be the last, occasion on which we see many commenters here rush to judge the USGA negatively.

> >

> > Lol.

>

>

> Look at the title given to this thread: “USGA? Teen DQ’d from Sectional for going to the bathroom before turning in his scorecard.”

>

> A title loaded with victimology, accusation and ridiculousness. The player was disqualified for a Rules violation. He could have “gone to the bathroom” and not have been in trouble as long as his delay didn’t violate the Rule. He could have taken his time, if he had communicated with Scoring. And his being a “teen” is not why the Rule was enforced.

>

> “Lol.”

>

> I want this fight. Not laughing.

 

Lol. No you don’t. Be careful what you ask for.

 

Title is a statement of fact you just chose to not see it. We have quotes from an official stating that a pro may have avoided this. The insinuation is that he’d have said the right thing and the official wouldn’t have thrown out the DQ. That is where the kids age plays a part.

[bladehunter]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> I’m far, far away from a USGA defender, but in this instance I really don’t see how anyone can lay the blame anywhere but on the young man.

>

> He’s not playing the Back 9 County Open, he’s playing a US Open qualifier. If he’s good enough to play in this tournament (and based on what it sounds like he shot, he wasn’t in over his head) then you absolutely know he’s played a lot of tournament golf (especially if he has a parent hovering that close ((and a coach to boot, who was there at the tournament with him)). He knows the correct procedure to follow when the tournament is over, it sounds (and I say sounds because it’s pretty apparent none of us know the real true story, so we go off what we have) like he screwed up. Pretty simple. Those saying he should get a pass because of his age sound a lot like the people in favor of participation trophies. If you sign up to play a big boy event, it’s assumed you can act the part of a big boy.

 

Shank you’re misreading the true gripe. Age is a tiny part. The true gripe is the absolutely conflicting accounts that the officials gives vs the other people. Officials claim that the group behind is finished and gone from scorers area before the kid comes back. And yet they claim he took 10-15 min to come back. Impossible. The group on 18 couldn’t hit approaches, putt out and go finish scoring in 10 minutes. Can’t be done. And kid says that the group behind hadn’t even made it to the 18TH green yet when he walked into scoring. So who’s lying ? Evidence leans toward the official simply because their account of the timeframe is impossible.

 

So let’s assume the official is wrong. Kid is right. Group hadn’t made it to 18 green when he turns in his card. I don’t think that makes his turn in time a penalty. It you turn in before the group behind you putts out why the issue ???? The rules don’t say it’s an issue !? Think it through. If Steve stricker has to go take a pee to keep it from running down his leg , makes it back before the next group. Do cthey DQ him ? Helll no. We all know the answer to that.

 

As I said 4 times now. Every person involved did something wrong. But I’m not convinced with the evidence we have that the penalty was warranted. Even if it was the officials saying things like “ he went to lunch “ and “ the fact that ams have the ability to play in qualifiers like this is amazing “ ( insinuating that ams don’t belong ) is just not needed. Much less making up things like saying “ the group behind had finished 18 and left scoring before he came back “. Physically impossible.

 

 

I’ve stated this all already twice. It’s been ignored. One said “ I don’t care about timelines”. Which is code for “ I love to see people in trouble , I don’t care if it’s a grey area or not “. If that’s your stance then there’s no way to have an intelligent debate about this. Getting high off being the hall monitor isn’t going to lend itself to thinking clearly.

 

Not shooting that at you shank. Jjst explianing the other side of this pancake.

[caniac6]

> @RobertBaron said:

> USGA really needs to get tighter with their wording. “Promptly” is freaking meaningless. What is that? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10? Just make it specific. Like 10 minutes from hole out or something.

 

I would think it should say go directly to the scorer after finishing. That leaves little or no confusion.

[dcmidnight]

And the issue is - you are taking what the dad and kid say as gospel truth in part because of your clear hatred for the officials. So say the group behind was ready to hit when the kids group finished out. We dont know for sure - we will never know. Its actually not at all physical impossible for the group to have been leaving scoring when the kid came back if that is the case.

 

If the group behind was waiting to hit when the kids group cleared, its 100% possible to have been finished and turned in their cards in 15 minutes. 100%. And if you are a tournament player - like seemingly everyone else other than this poor innocent kid - they walk in, sign their cards, and leave. Its 100% possible to do in the time it took the kid to do whatever he did. So this idea that its "physically impossible" - is complete nonsense. Its impossible in the version of facts that you are choosing to believe.

 

BTW - of course thats what the dad and the kid are going to day about the group behind them. That serves their story even more. But again - you dont know and I dont know exactly what the case was.

 

So whos right? You have an opinion that you cant be moved off of in part because of your clear hatred for the official bodies in this case. If the group behind them was ready to hit, they could have easily been finished.

 

What we do know for sure is that this kid made a few stops after he finished his round *before* signing his card. Thats literally all we know for certain.

 

It seems to me like this is a basic case of personal responsibility and some people being comfortable that there be absolutely none in this case.

[dcmidnight]

BTW this kid has played and won on something called the Hurricane Junior Golf Tour. "The Hurricane Junior Golf Tour, based in Orlando, Fla., was founded in 2007 with the intention of providing junior golfers between the ages of 8-18 an opportunity to play exceptional courses in a competitive environment."

 

Any idea that this kid doesn't know the importance of signing your card immediately after the round is 0%.

[bladehunter]

> @dcmidnight said:

> And the issue is - you are taking what the dad and kid say as gospel truth in part because of your clear hatred for the officials. So say the group behind was ready to hit when the kids group finished out. We dont know for sure - we will never know. Its actually not at all physical impossible for the group to have been leaving scoring when the kid came back if that is the case.

>

> If the group behind was waiting to hit when the kids group cleared, its 100% possible to have been finished and turned in their cards in 15 minutes. 100%. And if you are a tournament player - like seemingly everyone else other than this poor innocent kid - they walk in, sign their cards, and leave. Its 100% possible to do in the time it took the kid to do whatever he did. So this idea that its "physically impossible" - is complete nonsense. Its impossible in the version of facts that you are choosing to believe.

>

> BTW - of course thats what the dad and the kid are going to day about the group behind them. That serves their story even more. But again - you dont know and I dont know exactly what the case was.

>

> So whos right? You have an opinion that you cant be moved off of in part because of your clear hatred for the official bodies in this case. If the group behind them was ready to hit, they could have easily been finished.

>

> What we do know for sure is that this kid made a few stops after he finished his round *before* signing his card. Thats literally all we know for certain.

>

> It seems to me like this is a basic case of personal responsibility and some people being comfortable that there be absolutely none in this case.

 

We will just have to agree to disagree. It’s clear we both have equal bias and refuse to see the other side.

 

I’m simply dissecting the report.

 

Question. What makeup is the 18TH hole here. Par 4 or 5 ?

[dcmidnight]

Fair enough.

 

So setting aside all the nonsense, all this rule-detail-garbage aside - do you think what he did as a tournament player is "OK"?

 

Not by the rules, not...any of the other junk. Do you think the way he acted after the round was respectful to his playing partners given their short turn around? Or just in general?

 

I couldn't even count how many tournament rounds or club matches I've played in the last five years or so where I've had to mark/swap/sign cards afterward. Well over 100. I'm not nearly as good a player as this kid, dont have near the experience. But not once have I considered doing anything other than immediately signing my card. So my bias/stance isnt pro-officials more than its pro-respect to your partners in a tournament golf environment.

[bladehunter]

> @dcmidnight said:

> BTW this kid has played and won on something called the Hurricane Junior Golf Tour. "The Hurricane Junior Golf Tour, based in Orlando, Fla., was founded in 2007 with the intention of providing junior golfers between the ages of 8-18 an opportunity to play exceptional courses in a competitive environment."

>

> Any idea that this kid doesn't know the importance of signing your card immediately after the round is 0%.

 

 

By the way. The rule doesn’t say immediately . It’s says promptly. Contrary to what anyone says , I’ve walked into the scorers area many times and see a backup. Went to the head , grabbed a drink and came back and still waited for my turn. This idea that the scorers area is some assembly Line of efficiency is just crap. Sometimes it may be. But it’s far far from 100% in any qualifier type event I’ve been in. I’ve got a state one coming up 1st of July. I’ll let you know how they look when I come in there. Should be similar to this one since you guys say the USga has nothing to do with it and it was run by the mid Atlantic state association. I know this course and it will be setup in the dining room which is beside the grille and restrooms. Guarantee you it’s a sea of people in there and no particular order for guys coming in , hitting the head , turning in cards and milling around looking at the scores.

 

What about the scenario of a known pro doing the same. You truly think he’s DQ ? And don’t say “ doesn’t mattter. He’d never do that “. Not the question.

[dcmidnight]

Sorry your course question. Looks like he played the North Course which finishes on a very short par 4.

[bladehunter]

> @dcmidnight said:

> Fair enough.

>

> So setting aside all the nonsense, all this rule-detail-garbage aside - do you think what he did as a tournament player is "OK"?

>

> Not by the rules, not...any of the other junk. Do you think the way he acted after the round was respectful to his playing partners given their short turn around? Or just in general?

>

> I couldn't even count how many tournament rounds or club matches I've played in the last five years or so where I've had to mark/swap/sign cards afterward. Well over 100. I'm not nearly as good a player as this kid, dont have near the experience. But not once have I considered doing anything other than immediately signing my card. So my bias/stance isnt pro-officials more than its pro-respect to your partners in a tournament golf environment.

 

I don’t honestly know if I have enough info to make up my mind.

 

If he was actually sick and or depending on who he was playing with and their attitude during the round. Maybe yes. Maybe no. I may have signed the card and threw it to the person I was attesting sure. But I’m not sure there’s always time for a verbal explanation if you have a restroom emergency. Did he? I don’t know. I just have sympathy for anyone who has an issue like that. If he’s lying id be the first to want to slap him. That’s how I roll. I give trust easy. Then when it’s broken you’re dead to me. lol. I can also see his playing partner being the impetus for this DQ. If that guy raised helll it probably led to a quick decision. I’d have remained calm knowing it couldn't really blow back on me. And would give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

I also wonder how he got away from his playing partners so fast? Most times you come off the green and compare cards with whomever you attested , if it matches you sign and swap before turning in . What were the other 2 doing that allowed him to leave unnoticed? Just really odd

 

That being said. I can’t get the officials quotes out of my head. It’s so cookie cutter to how I’ve found official to act myself.

 

I once had a knock down drag out with one who signaled the universal sign for safe on a dogleg left that bordered the driving range. I had hit it close to the net left. He signaled “ safe “ like in baseball. We walk up and he’s raising hell “ I told you it was out “. I said “ nope you signaled safe “. Then a playing partner backed me up. He became irate. An threatened me with a pace of play penalty if I didn’t double time it back to the tee. I dropped my clubs and got close to him and quietly asked him if he was on his meds today. Needless to say my round was shot. And when I came back in i tried to file a complaint and nobody would hear it. It’s then that I knew it was “ us vs them”.

 

 

 

[dcmidnight]

> @bladehunter said:

> What about the scenario of a known pro doing the same. You truly think he’s DQ ? And don’t say “ doesn’t mattter. He’d never do that “. Not the question.

 

Absolutely. Wasnt it this same course where Furyk was DQd a few years back for wearing metal spikes in a qualifier?

 

Look, I think you're just inventing random possibilities now to cloud the conversation. You had 60 players playing two courses - tee times, not shotgun. How many players could possibly be turning in cards at one time - how much of a "sea of players" could it be? And however long he took at his car and then the bathroom - it was long enough for all the talk to go on at the scorers table, the decision to be made and someone to go to the scoreboard area and write NC next to his name. Because that had already happened by the time the kid got there.

 

Best of luck in your qualifier though.

 

[bladehunter]

> @dcmidnight said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > What about the scenario of a known pro doing the same. You truly think he’s DQ ? And don’t say “ doesn’t mattter. He’d never do that “. Not the question.

>

> Absolutely. Wasnt it this same course where Furyk was DQd a few years back for wearing metal spikes in a qualifier?

>

> Look, I think you're just inventing random possibilities now to cloud the conversation. You had 60 players playing two courses - tee times, not shotgun. How many players could possibly be turning in cards at one time - how much of a "sea of players" could it be? And however long he took at his car and then the bathroom - it was long enough for all the talk to go on at the scorers table, the decision to be made and someone to go to the scoreboard area and write NC next to his name. Because that had already happened by the time the kid got there.

>

> Best of luck in your qualifier though.

>

 

Lol thanks. I’m looking forward to it.

 

I think it was Jansen who got DQed. And I don’t even want to get started on how dumb that rule is. Soft spikes transfer as much or more seed and foreign material to a green. Metal spike rule was simply to save foot traffic in the clubhouse. Nothing more. I say bring back nails so I can stop sliding on wet days !!

[dcmidnight]

edit - sorry it was Lee Janzen and not Furyk, DQd in 2013 at the same qualifier. For some reason the dumb edit button isnt working. Shocker.

 

As far as you saying you'd have been patient, you're a better man than me. If I was the guy who this kid was marking for and I had a short turnaround and he disappeared with my card - I'd be raising holy helll too (seriously you cant say hell anymore?). In a short turnaround window, these other two guys probably both wanted to use the bathroom and clean up too - yet they were waiting to sign their cards like....virtually every other tournament player would know how to do.

[bladehunter]

> @dcmidnight said:

> edit - sorry it was Lee Janzen and not Furyk, DQd in 2013 at the same qualifier. For some reason the dumb edit button isnt working. Shocker.

>

> As far as you saying you'd have been patient, you're a better man than me. If I was the guy who this kid was marking for and I had a short turnaround and he disappeared with my card - I'd be raising holy helll too (seriously you cant say **** anymore?). In a short turnaround window, these other two guys probably both wanted to use the bathroom and clean up too - yet they were waiting to sign their cards like....virtually every other tournament player would know how to do.

 

Yea. I get that too. I truly do.

 

I have quite a temper. I’m either very calm or seeing red. No in between. If I get mad my day is over most likely. The adrenaline high and then crash isn’t conducive to playing golf . So I don’t get mad often. I just roll with it. I have a ton of bad life experience to draw from. So you have to get across the line of “ trying to kill me “ “ attacking my family/pet etc “ to get across that line. Sounds nuts. But my childhood has formed a threshold for getting angry that is pretty high. I had to remain calm to survive. There are other hot buttons with me. But a kid doing dumb things is just , eh.... it will sort out.

 

Not saying you’re wrong. Just saying why I think the way I think. People treat some of these things ( rules, laws etc ) like life or death moments. I’ve been there. It’s not even close.

[deadsolid...shank]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > I’m far, far away from a USGA defender, but in this instance I really don’t see how anyone can lay the blame anywhere but on the young man.

> >

> > He’s not playing the Back 9 County Open, he’s playing a US Open qualifier. If he’s good enough to play in this tournament (and based on what it sounds like he shot, he wasn’t in over his head) then you absolutely know he’s played a lot of tournament golf (especially if he has a parent hovering that close ((and a coach to boot, who was there at the tournament with him)). He knows the correct procedure to follow when the tournament is over, it sounds (and I say sounds because it’s pretty apparent none of us know the real true story, so we go off what we have) like he screwed up. Pretty simple. Those saying he should get a pass because of his age sound a lot like the people in favor of participation trophies. If you sign up to play a big boy event, it’s assumed you can act the part of a big boy.

>

> Shank you’re misreading the true gripe. Age is a tiny part. The true gripe is the absolutely conflicting accounts that the officials gives vs the other people. Officials claim that the group behind is finished and gone from scorers area before the kid comes back. And yet they claim he took 10-15 min to come back. Impossible. The group on 18 couldn’t hit approaches, putt out and go finish scoring in 10 minutes. Can’t be done. And kid says that the group behind hadn’t even made it to the 18TH green yet when he walked into scoring. So who’s lying ? Evidence leans toward the official simply because their account of the timeframe is impossible.

>

> So let’s assume the official is wrong. Kid is right. Group hadn’t made it to 18 green when he turns in his card. I don’t think that makes his turn in time a penalty. It you turn in before the group behind you putts out why the issue ???? The rules don’t say it’s an issue !? Think it through. If Steve stricker has to go take a pee to keep it from running down his leg , makes it back before the next group. Do cthey DQ him ? Helll no. We all know the answer to that.

>

> As I said 4 times now. Every person involved did something wrong. But I’m not convinced with the evidence we have that the penalty was warranted. Even if it was the officials saying things like “ he went to lunch “ and “ the fact that ams have the ability to play in qualifiers like this is amazing “ ( insinuating that ams don’t belong ) is just not needed. Much less making up things like saying “ the group behind had finished 18 and left scoring before he came back “. Physically impossible.

>

>

> I’ve stated this all already twice. It’s been ignored. One said “ I don’t care about timelines”. Which is code for “ I love to see people in trouble , I don’t care if it’s a grey area or not “. If that’s your stance then there’s no way to have an intelligent debate about this. Getting high off being the hall monitor isn’t going to lend itself to thinking clearly.

>

> Not shooting that at you shank. Jjst explianing the other side of this pancake.

 

No worries Blade. That’s why I added the part saying that none of us know the complete truth about what really happened, so everything we have is conjecture.

 

But, my main point still remains. This is qualifying for the US Open. If he’s at that level of play, the bottom line is he fully understands tournament golf and the procedures that go into it. And, he wasn’t just effecting himself, it sounds like this was the end of the first 18 and they were heading out again shortly for their next round, correct? He knew this part too, so his decision wasn’t impacting just him, how about the other two players who were trying to get ready for their afternoon round? That’s not conjecture, or a matter of “he said, she said”, we know for a fact their routine or plan for the day was disrupted by him. And it could have been avoided so easily if he had just said something (and I haven’t read anywhere that he himself told anyone anything).

 

Would you give your own son as much leeway on this as you’re giving this young man (I don’t think you would based on what you’ve written in the past)? I don’t understand why the vehement defense here. To me, this was clearly a case of someone not taking care of (his) business. Our standards keep lowering on what we expect of the younger generation.

 

As to the pro comment. I read that has saying no pro would put themselves in that situation. Not that they would receive preferential treatment. But that is just interpretation by whoever is reading the statement.

 

 

[Philomathesq]

> @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > I’m far, far away from a USGA defender, but in this instance I really don’t see how anyone can lay the blame anywhere but on the young man.

> > >

> > > He’s not playing the Back 9 County Open, he’s playing a US Open qualifier. If he’s good enough to play in this tournament (and based on what it sounds like he shot, he wasn’t in over his head) then you absolutely know he’s played a lot of tournament golf (especially if he has a parent hovering that close ((and a coach to boot, who was there at the tournament with him)). He knows the correct procedure to follow when the tournament is over, it sounds (and I say sounds because it’s pretty apparent none of us know the real true story, so we go off what we have) like he screwed up. Pretty simple. Those saying he should get a pass because of his age sound a lot like the people in favor of participation trophies. If you sign up to play a big boy event, it’s assumed you can act the part of a big boy.

> >

> > Shank you’re misreading the true gripe. Age is a tiny part. The true gripe is the absolutely conflicting accounts that the officials gives vs the other people. Officials claim that the group behind is finished and gone from scorers area before the kid comes back. And yet they claim he took 10-15 min to come back. Impossible. The group on 18 couldn’t hit approaches, putt out and go finish scoring in 10 minutes. Can’t be done. And kid says that the group behind hadn’t even made it to the 18TH green yet when he walked into scoring. So who’s lying ? Evidence leans toward the official simply because their account of the timeframe is impossible.

> >

> > So let’s assume the official is wrong. Kid is right. Group hadn’t made it to 18 green when he turns in his card. I don’t think that makes his turn in time a penalty. It you turn in before the group behind you putts out why the issue ???? The rules don’t say it’s an issue !? Think it through. If Steve stricker has to go take a pee to keep it from running down his leg , makes it back before the next group. Do cthey DQ him ? Helll no. We all know the answer to that.

> >

> > As I said 4 times now. Every person involved did something wrong. But I’m not convinced with the evidence we have that the penalty was warranted. Even if it was the officials saying things like “ he went to lunch “ and “ the fact that ams have the ability to play in qualifiers like this is amazing “ ( insinuating that ams don’t belong ) is just not needed. Much less making up things like saying “ the group behind had finished 18 and left scoring before he came back “. Physically impossible.

> >

> >

> > I’ve stated this all already twice. It’s been ignored. One said “ I don’t care about timelines”. Which is code for “ I love to see people in trouble , I don’t care if it’s a grey area or not “. If that’s your stance then there’s no way to have an intelligent debate about this. Getting high off being the hall monitor isn’t going to lend itself to thinking clearly.

> >

> > Not shooting that at you shank. Jjst explianing the other side of this pancake.

>

> No worries Blade. That’s why I added the part saying that none of us know the complete truth about what really happened, so everything we have is conjecture.

>

> But, my main point still remains. This is qualifying for the US Open. If he’s at that level of play, the bottom line is he fully understands tournament golf and the procedures that go into it. And, he wasn’t just effecting himself, it sounds like this was the end of the first 18 and they were heading out again shortly for their next round, correct? He knew this part too, so his decision wasn’t impacting just him, how about the other two players who were trying to get ready for their afternoon round? That’s not conjecture, or a matter of “he said, she said”, we know for a fact their routine or plan for the day was disrupted by him. And it could have been avoided so easily if he had just said something (and I haven’t read anywhere that he himself told anyone anything).

>

> Would you give your own son as much leeway on this as you’re giving this young man (I don’t think you would based on what you’ve written in the past)? I don’t understand why the vehement defense here. **To me, this was clearly a case of someone not taking care of (his) business.** Our standards keep lowering on what we expect of the younger generation.

>

> As to the pro comment. I read that has saying no pro would put themselves in that situation. Not that they would receive preferential treatment. But that is just interpretation by whoever is reading the statement.

 

To add some levity to this situation, that is exactly why he got in trouble... he was taking care of his business. :D

 

 

[deadsolid...shank]

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"deadsolid...shank" said:

> > > > I’m far, far away from a USGA defender, but in this instance I really don’t see how anyone can lay the blame anywhere but on the young man.

> > > >

> > > > He’s not playing the Back 9 County Open, he’s playing a US Open qualifier. If he’s good enough to play in this tournament (and based on what it sounds like he shot, he wasn’t in over his head) then you absolutely know he’s played a lot of tournament golf (especially if he has a parent hovering that close ((and a coach to boot, who was there at the tournament with him)). He knows the correct procedure to follow when the tournament is over, it sounds (and I say sounds because it’s pretty apparent none of us know the real true story, so we go off what we have) like he screwed up. Pretty simple. Those saying he should get a pass because of his age sound a lot like the people in favor of participation trophies. If you sign up to play a big boy event, it’s assumed you can act the part of a big boy.

> > >

> > > Shank you’re misreading the true gripe. Age is a tiny part. The true gripe is the absolutely conflicting accounts that the officials gives vs the other people. Officials claim that the group behind is finished and gone from scorers area before the kid comes back. And yet they claim he took 10-15 min to come back. Impossible. The group on 18 couldn’t hit approaches, putt out and go finish scoring in 10 minutes. Can’t be done. And kid says that the group behind hadn’t even made it to the 18TH green yet when he walked into scoring. So who’s lying ? Evidence leans toward the official simply because their account of the timeframe is impossible.

> > >

> > > So let’s assume the official is wrong. Kid is right. Group hadn’t made it to 18 green when he turns in his card. I don’t think that makes his turn in time a penalty. It you turn in before the group behind you putts out why the issue ???? The rules don’t say it’s an issue !? Think it through. If Steve stricker has to go take a pee to keep it from running down his leg , makes it back before the next group. Do cthey DQ him ? Helll no. We all know the answer to that.

> > >

> > > As I said 4 times now. Every person involved did something wrong. But I’m not convinced with the evidence we have that the penalty was warranted. Even if it was the officials saying things like “ he went to lunch “ and “ the fact that ams have the ability to play in qualifiers like this is amazing “ ( insinuating that ams don’t belong ) is just not needed. Much less making up things like saying “ the group behind had finished 18 and left scoring before he came back “. Physically impossible.

> > >

> > >

> > > I’ve stated this all already twice. It’s been ignored. One said “ I don’t care about timelines”. Which is code for “ I love to see people in trouble , I don’t care if it’s a grey area or not “. If that’s your stance then there’s no way to have an intelligent debate about this. Getting high off being the hall monitor isn’t going to lend itself to thinking clearly.

> > >

> > > Not shooting that at you shank. Jjst explianing the other side of this pancake.

> >

> > No worries Blade. That’s why I added the part saying that none of us know the complete truth about what really happened, so everything we have is conjecture.

> >

> > But, my main point still remains. This is qualifying for the US Open. If he’s at that level of play, the bottom line is he fully understands tournament golf and the procedures that go into it. And, he wasn’t just effecting himself, it sounds like this was the end of the first 18 and they were heading out again shortly for their next round, correct? He knew this part too, so his decision wasn’t impacting just him, how about the other two players who were trying to get ready for their afternoon round? That’s not conjecture, or a matter of “he said, she said”, we know for a fact their routine or plan for the day was disrupted by him. And it could have been avoided so easily if he had just said something (and I haven’t read anywhere that he himself told anyone anything).

> >

> > Would you give your own son as much leeway on this as you’re giving this young man (I don’t think you would based on what you’ve written in the past)? I don’t understand why the vehement defense here. **To me, this was clearly a case of someone not taking care of (his) business.** Our standards keep lowering on what we expect of the younger generation.

> >

> > As to the pro comment. I read that has saying no pro would put themselves in that situation. Not that they would receive preferential treatment. But that is just interpretation by whoever is reading the statement.

>

> To add some levity to this situation, that is exactly why he got in trouble... he was taking care of his business. :D

>

>

Nice!

I noticed that after I posted, figured it worked well enough to not need changed.

 

Inadvertent irony!??

 

[bscinstnct]

Brian DePasquale, manager of championship communications for the USGA, confirmed Skyler Fox’s disqualification, writing in an email to Golfweek that Fox “went to lunch and did not enter the scoring area until the following group had returned their cards.”

 

 

Is either him going to lunch or not entering the scoring area until the following group returning their cards even true? Or is this basically 2 false statements?

 

The father says,

 

Fox and his dad disputed that he took much time before turning in his card. When he reached the scorer’s table, Fox said the other two players in his group were just leaving and the following group hadn’t even reached the 18th green yet. “

 

 

I speculate the kid ran to the bathroom, took longer than he thought he would, came back in 10 minutes, but well before the group behind finished. He probably thought he would take 5 minutes but it took 10. He should have said something but did not. But he did not go to lunch or intentionally/carelessly take long.

 

If he was a relative or friend of the rules official, would he have been DQ?

[tannyhoban]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @"15th Club" said:

> > > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > > > @bscinstnct said:

> > > > > > > @SNIPERBBB said:

> > > > > > > Of course, but we learn from them. Well most of us do anyways.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > As to this story, I've yet to see where they are wrong here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Well, lets start with this,

> > > > > >

> > > > > > “Brian DePasquale, manager of championship communications for the USGA, confirmed Skyler Fox's disqualification, writing in an email to Golfweek that Fox "went to lunch and did not enter the scoring area until the following group had returned their cards."”

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So, if he did not go to lunch

> > > > > > Why is the “manager of championship communications for the USGA” making a written communication to Golfweek that he did?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The statement is either

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Correct or not correct.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > If it is not correct, then it is a

> > > > > >

> > > > > > False statement made by a USGA communications manager? A false statement, not necessarily intentional, but quite an error for a communication manager.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Why was it made? Why hasn’t it been retracted?

> > > > >

> > > > > Well, let's also keep in mind this great quote from the USGA communications manager: “nobody knew what he looked like.” I'd like someone to explain how this statement is true. We know that he played with two other people, both of whom would have presumably known what he looked like. Apparently, the player's dad and swing coach were in the vicinity of the scorer's table, and they likely know what he looks like.

> > > > >

> > > > > The simple fact of the matter is that there a bunch of facts that don't add up, and I see no reason to give the benefit of the doubt to the USGA when they have not earned that right; in fact, they have shown that they make false statements and then have to retract them.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm not saying the kid is completely blameless, because he is not. However, this situation could have been handled much differently and in a way that didn't leave the USGA open to attack.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > We went through that. My simple (obvious?) presumption was that “nobody” among the scoring officials in the scoring area knew what Skyler looked like. Skyler’s father was not there to say, “He needed his medication; he has the scorecard with him and he’ll be here in just a few minutes.” Skyler’s caddy/coach was not there to offer that communication either. It apparently would have forestalled the whole problem.

> > > >

> > > > The fellow competitors were working on their cards.

> > > >

> > > > So of the people who could have gone on a hunt for Skyler in the clubhouse and the parking lot, “nobody” knew what he looked like.

> > > >

> > > > This is the second, and hopefully last, time that we have to follow that literalist backwater.

> > > >

> > > > Oh; and since you brought it up, I see EVERY reason to explore giving the USGA the benefit of the doubt here. Time and time and time again, large numbers of GolfWRX commenters make the knee-jerk presumption that the USGA is to blame in any controversy. Routinely, they are not. This is certainly not the first, and won’t be the last, occasion on which we see many commenters here rush to judge the USGA negatively.

> > >

> > > Lol.

> >

> >

> > Look at the title given to this thread: “USGA? Teen DQ’d from Sectional for going to the bathroom before turning in his scorecard.”

> >

> > A title loaded with victimology, accusation and ridiculousness. The player was disqualified for a Rules violation. He could have “gone to the bathroom” and not have been in trouble as long as his delay didn’t violate the Rule. He could have taken his time, if he had communicated with Scoring. And his being a “teen” is not why the Rule was enforced.

> >

> > “Lol.”

> >

> > I want this fight. Not laughing.

>

> None of that matters to the anarchists.

Nothing really matters and what if it did. No dues from me.

[LeoLeo99]

What many seem to miss is the perception of a Draconian penalty because the golfer was late to turn in their card. It is a subjective call if the golfer was prompt or not prompt and to DQ someone over a subjective call is tough to swallow.

[bscinstnct]

> @LeoLeo99 said:

> What many seem to miss is the perception of a Draconian penalty because the golfer was late to turn in their card. It is a subjective call if the golfer was prompt or not prompt and to DQ someone over a subjective call is tough to swallow.

 

 

Agree, I imagine they use the word “promptly” as opposed to “immediately” so that it allows people who are done with their round to....

 

 

Got to the bathroom!

 

 

Wait, and what did the kid tell the officials he did?

 

Lol

 

 

[widow-maker]

> @RobertBaron said:

> USGA really needs to get tighter with their wording. “Promptly” is freaking meaningless. What is that? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10? Just make it specific. Like 10 minutes from hole out or something.

 

Promptly means that you walk off the 18th green, go to the scorer's table and take care of your business. The round isn't over until the scorecards have been signed. If he walked off the 15th green and went missing for 10-15 minutes without saying anything to his competitors what would you think about that? If you've got a good reason for not going directly to the scorer's table, then it's on you to convey it to an official or your playing partners. An emergency bathroom run fits that description, but you can't just disappear for 10-15 minutes as if you're the only one that matters.

 

It's tough because we're getting conflicting stories and the truth is never going to be forthcoming here. But, did the committee have ample reason to assess DQ for a player that disappeared without warning.... absolutely. Blaming the USGA for this infraction is silly. The rule is in place to protect the field and give each player equal consideration. Finish your business then tend to your needs.

[bscinstnct]

> @widow-maker said:

> > @RobertBaron said:

> > USGA really needs to get tighter with their wording. “Promptly” is freaking meaningless. What is that? 30 seconds? 1 minute? 10? Just make it specific. Like 10 minutes from hole out or something.

>

> Promptly means that you walk off the 18th green, go to the scorer's table and take care of your business. The round isn't over until the scorecards have been signed. If he walked off the 15th green and went missing for 10-15 minutes without saying anything to his competitors what would you think about that? If you've got a good reason for not going directly to the scorer's table, then it's on you to convey it to an official or your playing partners. An emergency bathroom run fits that description, but you can't just disappear for 10-15 minutes as if you're the only one that matters.

>

> It's tough because we're getting conflicting stories and the truth is never going to be forthcoming here. But, did the committee have ample reason to assess DQ for a player that disappeared without warning.... absolutely. Blaming the USGA for this infraction is silly. The rule is in place to protect the field and give each player equal consideration. Finish your business then tend to your needs.

 

 

“ An emergency bathroom run fits that description, but you can't just disappear for 10-15 minutes “

 

It can’t take 10 minutes to use the bathroom? The kid said he had to use the bathroom.

 

So you kick him out of the tournament?

 

What, do they need him to get into details about why it took him 10 minutes?

 

 

I’m picturing Arnold Palmer disappearing after a round.

 

“Where’s the King?”

 

“He’s chatting with that blonde that was following him around all day”

 

“Oh, ok, grab his card when you see him”