USGA? Teen DQ'd from Sectional for going to the bathroom before turning in his scorecard

[15th Club]

> @JohnnyCashForever said:

> > @"15th Club" said:

> > Kudos to Yahoo Sports contributor Ryan Young for this report, which sheds enough light on the situation to inform me that, as usual, the USGA appears to be the victim of a hostile press and an ignorant anti-USGA general sports audience:

> > [https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html "https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html")

> >

> > It is at once obvious and revealing to see all of the headlines (including in the Ryan Young/Yahoo piece) that seem to imply that the USGA disqualified a 16 year-old simply for using a bathroom, or for trying to find some medication that he needed. Period; full stop. And as usual, greater detail and nuance routinely exonerates the USGA.

> >

> > Craig Winter, USGA senior director of rules and amateur status was asked about what would have or should have happened if the simple expediency of communicating to Rules staff what was going on with the player in question: “That would have changed the calculus of what this whole situation looked like significantly,” Winter said, via USA Today. “It's well established in the rule that players, should they become suddenly ill, have time to figure out, recuperate, see if they can continue. And that's no different if you just started your round or you're returning to scoring.”

> >

> > And the really instructive thing about these USGA threads continues to be a demonstration of the popular freakouts against the USGA before much of the public truly understands what happened.

>

> _"[The 16 yo kid] had been marking another player’s score on his own, per the report, and the other two started piecing together his round on a blank scorecard while they started looking for him. [Craig] Winter [uSGA Senior Director of Rules of Golf and Amateur Status], though, said that “**nobody knew what he looked like**.” Winter continues, "**He's obviously a young player who hasn't played a lot in that area.**"_

>

> So nobody knew what the kid looked like? Not even his playing competitors, or his father, or his swing coach? And, obviously, the 16 yo kid hasn't played a lot in that area...whatever that means (I think it's basically a gratuitous ad hominem to qualitatively defend their decision to DQ the kid).

>

> Since the USGA Senior Director of Rules of Golf and Amateur Status wasn't actually at the tournament, it is amazing that he is able to state these "facts" so definitively just by talking with the tournament officials, who apparently have no self-interest in biasing the story to make themselves look innocent. Please 15th, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

>

>

 

Don't be ridiculous. Of course the fellow competitors knew what he looked like. But they had business to attend to, in the scorer's tent. They could not go wandering in the parking lot looking for him. It was the local officials who did not know what he looked like. The poor guys who would have to run out to the parking lot to try to track him down. Because the kid hadn't communicated with anyone else.

 

And of course there are a couple of clues in there as to how much time elapsed. There had been enough time to think about a search for the kid. There had been enough time to register his DQ, and then to inform his father, and then to begin an argument about it, all before the kid returned to complete the group's scoring. That's a long time by my very informal appraisal.

 

I really don't mind if people have questions about any Rules decision. I love Rules questions, and discussions. I'd be interested, in an interesting discussion of this case. But look at the number of comments that simply lapse into the old "USGA sux" memes. And how many times it happens, in other innumerable USGA discussions. And when it turns into that kind of fight -- since you are the guy who mentioned bringing a knife to a gunfight -- Yeah; I want that fight. So bring it.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @"sui generis" said:

> > @Philomathesq said:

> > > @"sui generis" said:

> > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > @"sui generis", I just noticed the quote in your signature. Is that something you recently added, or has it been there awhile? If it was there before today, how a pro pos!

> > >

> > > **Do your homework.** You'll find my signature has been just that from Day 1.

> >

> > And how would I do that? Signatures dynamically update. So, if you changed it today, all your prior posts would show the change. And, since I don't have a crystal ball, I can't really go back to the first day you joined the site to see if your signature was the same.

>

> Let's leave it, as your remarks suggest that you're unfamiliar with usga golf.

 

 

Just unfamiliar with USga type golf. That’s a very small fraction of actual competitive golf. It’s more of a sideshow for the glorification of the ruling body.

 

[davep043]

> @JohnnyCashForever said:

 

> So nobody knew what the kid looked like? Not even his playing competitors, or his father, or his swing coach? .

>

>

Well apparently pop and the coach were arguing with the officials, not looking for the young man. Maybe they could have made a better choice, maybe they could have got the medications while the kid was still playing, maybe they could have made sure to understand where the kid was going so they could explain, maybe they could have made sure the kid communicated his issues directly to the officials. They did none of that, as far as any of the accounts say. And the other two people who surely knew what he looked like were in the scorer's area, exactly where they belonged.

I find it interesting that people will accuse the USGA of making self-serving statements, even of lying, while accepting everything the player and his father say at face value. One says the player got lunch and looked at the standings before returning to the tent, the other says he had a headache since hole 12, and had to go get medicine and use the bathroom. But apparently Dad and the coach were unaware of where the player was during their argument with the officials, unaware of his need for meds, unaware that he needed to use the head. Dad (apparently) doesn't claim to have told the officials that the player was in pain and getting meds, is it possible he hedging the truth to make his son look a little better? Or maybe its all true, the kid just disappeared without speaking to anyone. If that's the case, the responsibility lies with him. And to read to the end of the Golfweek article, it sounds like he's accepted this as a learning experience, good for him.

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @"15th Club" said:

> Kudos to Yahoo Sports contributor Ryan Young for this report, which sheds enough light on the situation to inform me that, as usual, the USGA appears to be the victim of a hostile press and an ignorant anti-USGA general sports audience:

> [https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html "https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html")

>

> It is at once obvious and revealing to see all of the headlines (including in the Ryan Young/Yahoo piece) that seem to imply that the USGA disqualified a 16 year-old simply for using a bathroom, or for trying to find some medication that he needed. Period; full stop. And as usual, greater detail and nuance routinely exonerates the USGA.

>

> Craig Winter, USGA senior director of rules and amateur status was asked about what would have or should have happened if the simple expediency of communicating to Rules staff what was going on with the player in question: “That would have changed the calculus of what this whole situation looked like significantly,” Winter said, via USA Today. “It's well established in the rule that players, should they become suddenly ill, have time to figure out, recuperate, see if they can continue. And that's no different if you just started your round or you're returning to scoring.”

>

> And the really instructive thing about these USGA threads continues to be a demonstration of the popular freakouts against the USGA before much of the public truly understands what happened.

 

I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

[bladehunter]

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @caniac6 said:

> > If Tiger can make it to the scorer's area on a broken leg, this kid can go there before he goes to the bathroom. The correct ruling was applied.

>

> Ha! Tigerrrrrrr!

>

> Actually, it will be good.

>

> This kid will grow up to be on the PGA Tour

>

> And rip the USGA every chance he gets ; )

>

 

> @bscinstnct said:

> > @caniac6 said:

> > If Tiger can make it to the scorer's area on a broken leg, this kid can go there before he goes to the bathroom. The correct ruling was applied.

>

> Ha! Tigerrrrrrr!

>

> Actually, it will be good.

>

> This kid will grow up to be on the PGA Tour

>

> And rip the USGA every chance he gets ; )

>

 

Yep. I just can’t help myself. This growing the game business is hilarious. A 16 year old playing with mostly grown men. He’s supposed to tell them “ hey guys ( who I’m intimidated by ) I need to go poop .... brb bros ! “. Wow.

 

We as adults are supposed to teach kids. This was a teaching moment. A good old fashion ( hey boy ) verbal tirade with some public shame Thrown in would have happened 30 years ago and would have resulted in lesson learned. This taught him nothing except how to hate the USga. Period. No way he has a positive opinion of the group going forward. Not if he’s telling the truth and was sick. ( stomach head or both)

[PowerFade36]

Semi-off topic, but in this day and age, why is golf the only game/sport where the competitors are forced to keep their own score? and then DQ's come into play when the process is handled incorrectly? Seems absurd to me.

[Tepop84]

Blaming the USGA for this takes away from the actual criticisms of them.

[Pepperturbo]

The article is a bit confusing when it comes to what the guy was doing over the 15 mins leading up to him showing up at the scorer's table. If he was feeling ill, rules allow for that but he didn't mention being ill when asked where he'd been. It doesn't take that long to go to the bathroom. Regardless of age, rules are rules. Play by them or face the consequences.

[caniac6]

The kid made a mistake, and was DQed. It's happened before, and will happen again. If this had been a 40 year old that went to the parking lot to pound a couple beers before turning in his card, everyone would be having a good laugh about it. The rules need to be applied equally, and it's unfortunate this happened to a 16 year old, but he won't make the same mistake twice.

[davep043]

> @bladehunter said:

>

> I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

 

To me, a quick statement to the officials, or even to one of the other players, before running to the head and to get meds is a "reason". To claim a medical emergency after the fact (if a headache he's had for 2 hours or so can be an emergency), or even a bathroom emergency, sounds more like an "excuse". If he indeed made a detour to get a bite to eat, and to take a gander at the scoreboards before he went to turn in his card, that would be unnecessary delay in my book. And based on what I read, neither the player nor his father say that they brought up the pit stop and meds during the discussion with the officials, that came out during interviews with the press.

But I don't know about the potential for a DQ to be overturned. If its a possibility, how do the officials weigh additional stops after the "emergency" issues are taken care of.

[bscinstnct]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @caniac6 said:

> > > If Tiger can make it to the scorer's area on a broken leg, this kid can go there before he goes to the bathroom. The correct ruling was applied.

> >

> > Ha! Tigerrrrrrr!

> >

> > Actually, it will be good.

> >

> > This kid will grow up to be on the PGA Tour

> >

> > And rip the USGA every chance he gets ; )

> >

>

> > @bscinstnct said:

> > > @caniac6 said:

> > > If Tiger can make it to the scorer's area on a broken leg, this kid can go there before he goes to the bathroom. The correct ruling was applied.

> >

> > Ha! Tigerrrrrrr!

> >

> > Actually, it will be good.

> >

> > This kid will grow up to be on the PGA Tour

> >

> > And rip the USGA every chance he gets ; )

> >

>

> Yep. I just can’t help myself. This growing the game business is hilarious. A 16 year old playing with mostly grown men. He’s supposed to tell them “ hey guys ( who I’m intimidated by ) I need to go **** .... brb bros ! “. Wow.

>

> We as adults are supposed to teach kids. This was a teaching moment. A good old fashion ( hey boy ) verbal tirade with some public shame Thrown in would have happened 30 years ago and would have resulted in lesson learned. This taught him nothing except how to hate the USga. Period. No way he has a positive opinion of the group going forward. Not if he’s telling the truth and was sick. ( stomach head or both)

 

USGA officials be like,

 

 

[bladehunter]

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> >

> > I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

>

> To me, a quick statement to the officials, or even to one of the other players, before running to the head and to get meds is a "reason". To claim a medical emergency after the fact (if a headache he's had for 2 hours or so can be an emergency), or even a bathroom emergency, sounds more like an "excuse". If he indeed made a detour to get a bite to eat, and to take a gander at the scoreboards before he went to turn in his card, that would be unnecessary delay in my book. And based on what I read, neither the player nor his father say that they brought up the pit stop and meds during the discussion with the officials, that came out during interviews with the press.

> But I don't know about the potential for a DQ to be overturned. If its a possibility, how do the officials weigh additional stops after the "emergency" issues are taken care of.

 

Well first off. I think “ went to eat lunch “ is as much or more hearsay as any other part of the article. Nobody anywhere says the kid came back eating a corn dog. That was just a flippant comment by the official .... like saying “ he’s out to lunch “ meaning ...gone.

 

But hey. Whatever I guess. Without being there it’s hard to say for sure. The kid May have been a silver spoon cake eater who deserved it for being defiant. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the USga has more instances of things like this than any organization I can name. Grey area rules descriptions that are enforced with an iron fist , and a side of “ if you’d only knocked 3 times and said the magic words we’d have made an exception “. The rule doesn’t stipulate anything except “ prompt “ which is defined as being “ done without delay, immediate “. But yet offers an imaginary exception for medical reasons , which apparently has to be applied for before the emergency. I don’t know about you guys. But when a case of the trots hits I don’t have time to bow and scrape to an official in a tent . I gots to go. The very definition of emergency would lead one to believe there isn’t time for explanation.

 

Again. We don’t know. But we do know that 2 wrongs never make a right.

[Philomathesq]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> The article is a bit confusing when it comes to what the guy was doing over the 15 mins leading up to him showing up at the scorer's table. If he was feeling ill, rules allow for that but he didn't mention being ill when asked where he'd been. **It doesn't take that long to go to the bathroom.** Regardless of age, rules are rules. Play by them or face the consequences.

 

My wife would disagree with you. She constantly remarks that it takes me an hour to take a s***. :D

 

[DFS PFD]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @davep043 said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > >

> > > I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

> >

> > To me, a quick statement to the officials, or even to one of the other players, before running to the head and to get meds is a "reason". To claim a medical emergency after the fact (if a headache he's had for 2 hours or so can be an emergency), or even a bathroom emergency, sounds more like an "excuse". If he indeed made a detour to get a bite to eat, and to take a gander at the scoreboards before he went to turn in his card, that would be unnecessary delay in my book. And based on what I read, neither the player nor his father say that they brought up the pit stop and meds during the discussion with the officials, that came out during interviews with the press.

> > But I don't know about the potential for a DQ to be overturned. If its a possibility, how do the officials weigh additional stops after the "emergency" issues are taken care of.

>

> Well first off. I think “ went to eat lunch “ is as much or more hearsay as any other part of the article. Nobody anywhere says the kid came back eating a corn dog. That was just a flippant comment by the official .... like saying “ he’s out to lunch “ meaning ...gone.

>

> But hey. Whatever I guess. Without being there it’s hard to say for sure. The kid May have been a silver spoon cake eater who deserved it for being defiant. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the USga has more instances of things like this than any organization I can name. Grey area rules descriptions that are enforced with an iron fist , and a side of “ if you’d only knocked 3 times and said the magic words we’d have made an exception “. The rule doesn’t stipulate anything except “ prompt “ which is defined as being “ done without delay, immediate “. But yet offers an imaginary exception for medical reasons , which apparently has to be applied for before the emergency. I don’t know about you guys. But when a case of the trots hits I don’t have time to bow and scrape to an official in a tent . I gots to go. The very definition of emergency would lead one to believe there isn’t time for explanation.

>

> Again. We don’t know. But we do know that 2 wrongs never make a right.

 

Couldn't he have told his playing partners walking off the 18th? Can't say I've heard of many emergencies that would have prevented a quick "gotta use the head, be there in 15" short of cardiac arrest or an aneurysm which people may have noticed.

[caniac6]

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > The article is a bit confusing when it comes to what the guy was doing over the 15 mins leading up to him showing up at the scorer's table. If he was feeling ill, rules allow for that but he didn't mention being ill when asked where he'd been. **It doesn't take that long to go to the bathroom.** Regardless of age, rules are rules. Play by them or face the consequences.

>

> My wife would disagree with you. She constantly remarks that it takes me an hour to take a ****. :D

>

 

He didn't say he was reading the sports page.

[Ashley Schaeffer]

I don't have an opinion on the ruling. I will, however, say (to nobody in particular) if you haven't had a **** attack during a competitive round that needed to be addressed immediately "or else", then I envy you. I've experienced and/or seen everything from sprinting two holes back to the facilities, to addressing the situation in the woods and losing a headcover.

[bladehunter]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> I don't have an opinion on the ruling. I will, however, say (to nobody in particular) if you haven't had a **** attack during a competitive round that needed to be addressed immediately "or else", then I envy you. I've experienced and/or seen everything from sprinting two holes back to the facilities, to addressing the situation in the woods and losing a headcover.

 

Lol. True story . County am . Tee box delay and a playing partner disappears into the woods. We assume to pee. Comes out and everybody tees off. Then one guy spots something white in the bushes off this elevated tee. And says “ hey man. Did you drop a towel or something “. Guy who was in the woods says “ just leave it man. Just leave it. It’s a biohazard now “. I cracked up. It happens.

[Pepperturbo]

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @Pepperturbo said:

> > The article is a bit confusing when it comes to what the guy was doing over the 15 mins leading up to him showing up at the scorer's table. If he was feeling ill, rules allow for that but he didn't mention being ill when asked where he'd been. **It doesn't take that long to go to the bathroom.** Regardless of age, rules are rules. Play by them or face the consequences.

>

> My wife would disagree with you. She constantly remarks that it takes me an hour to take a ****. :D

>

 

OK - That infers your bathroom habits contribute to slow play. lol

[bladehunter]

> @"DFS PFD" said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @davep043 said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > >

> > > > I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

> > >

> > > To me, a quick statement to the officials, or even to one of the other players, before running to the head and to get meds is a "reason". To claim a medical emergency after the fact (if a headache he's had for 2 hours or so can be an emergency), or even a bathroom emergency, sounds more like an "excuse". If he indeed made a detour to get a bite to eat, and to take a gander at the scoreboards before he went to turn in his card, that would be unnecessary delay in my book. And based on what I read, neither the player nor his father say that they brought up the pit stop and meds during the discussion with the officials, that came out during interviews with the press.

> > > But I don't know about the potential for a DQ to be overturned. If its a possibility, how do the officials weigh additional stops after the "emergency" issues are taken care of.

> >

> > Well first off. I think “ went to eat lunch “ is as much or more hearsay as any other part of the article. Nobody anywhere says the kid came back eating a corn dog. That was just a flippant comment by the official .... like saying “ he’s out to lunch “ meaning ...gone.

> >

> > But hey. Whatever I guess. Without being there it’s hard to say for sure. The kid May have been a silver spoon cake eater who deserved it for being defiant. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the USga has more instances of things like this than any organization I can name. Grey area rules descriptions that are enforced with an iron fist , and a side of “ if you’d only knocked 3 times and said the magic words we’d have made an exception “. The rule doesn’t stipulate anything except “ prompt “ which is defined as being “ done without delay, immediate “. But yet offers an imaginary exception for medical reasons , which apparently has to be applied for before the emergency. I don’t know about you guys. But when a case of the trots hits I don’t have time to bow and scrape to an official in a tent . I gots to go. The very definition of emergency would lead one to believe there isn’t time for explanation.

> >

> > Again. We don’t know. But we do know that 2 wrongs never make a right.

>

> Couldn't he have told his playing partners walking off the 18th? Can't say I've heard of many emergencies that would have prevented a quick "gotta use the head, be there in 15" short of cardiac arrest or an aneurysm which people may have noticed.

 

Anything is possible in either direction. We don’t know the dynamic between players during the round. We don’t know the direction of bathrooms vs the other players and the scoring area. A lot of unknowns. It’s just not a cut and dried situation. At all. And to me in a vague situation with no clear chain of evidence etc 10 minutes isn’t outside of “ prompt”.

 

I also find it odd that a. Omnipresent force like a USga official can have the power to DQ after 8-10 minutes and yet be absent the power to reconsider once more info comes in. One would think that a rules stickler would indeed be interested in all rules being adhered to not just the ones that bring that rush of satisfaction that a DQ apparently brings.

 

What I’m saying is , if indeed a medical issue existed , isn’t the committee breaking its own rule by not allowing time for recovery , BEFORE card signing ? This is from the officials mouth via quote. I don’t see the time at which The info becomes known to make any difference so long as it came in before the next round.

[North Butte]

bladehunter,

I'd imagine we've all at one time or another been frustrated enough with antics of another golfer to wish we could "DQ" him or throw him off the course on the spot. That's just human nature. But put a few humans into a Committee and they don't just wish for it, they can make it happen!

[davep043]

> @bladehunter said:

> Anything is possible in either direction. We don’t know the dynamic between players during the round. We don’t know the direction of bathrooms vs the other players and the scoring area. A lot of unknowns. It’s just not a cut and dried situation. At all. And to me in a vague situation with no clear chain of evidence etc 10 minutes isn’t outside of “ prompt”.

>

> I also find it odd that a. Omnipresent force like a USga official can have the power to DQ after 8-10 minutes and yet be absent the power to reconsider once more info comes in. One would think that a rules stickler would indeed be interested in all rules being adhered to not just the ones that bring that rush of satisfaction that a DQ apparently brings.

>

> What I’m saying is , if indeed a medical issue existed , isn’t the committee breaking its own rule by not allowing time for recovery , BEFORE card signing ? This is from the officials mouth via quote. I don’t see the time at which The info becomes known to make any difference so long as it came in before the next round.

 

The way I am interpreting the news articles, it seems as if no mention was made of the reason for the delay at the time. Dad never says "I told them he was in the can, and then had to get his migraine meds, and they blew me off". The officials say that no mention of health issues was made at the time. I don't know how much time they had between rounds, but if 62 players are playing from #1 tee, and need to complete 36 holes, they had to be pretty tight. Its reasonably possible that the officials never heard the whole story in time for the player to begin his second round, and by then it was too late.

[rangersgoalie]

> @Nessism said:

> BS ruling. Typical USGA. Story said he has medicine for headaches so probably migraines. Anyone that suffers that type of headache knows how much discomfort they can cause. It's not like aspirin is "his medicine". The USGA just can't get over themselves sometimes.

 

As someone who battles migraines, ive had to give myself injections in my thigh to finish a round. When a migraine lands, it also starts to impact your disgestive system. In my case, I will start throwing up if I take pills too late, thus I use injectors when I can.

 

That being said, there’s too many variables in this story. Does he have migraines? Would explain the medication at car though why not in his bag. Did the migraine make him ill....you cannot plan around that.

Or, he is 16 and made a mistake....

[Pepperturbo]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > >

> > > > > I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

> > > >

> > > > To me, a quick statement to the officials, or even to one of the other players, before running to the head and to get meds is a "reason". To claim a medical emergency after the fact (if a headache he's had for 2 hours or so can be an emergency), or even a bathroom emergency, sounds more like an "excuse". If he indeed made a detour to get a bite to eat, and to take a gander at the scoreboards before he went to turn in his card, that would be unnecessary delay in my book. And based on what I read, neither the player nor his father say that they brought up the pit stop and meds during the discussion with the officials, that came out during interviews with the press.

> > > > But I don't know about the potential for a DQ to be overturned. If its a possibility, how do the officials weigh additional stops after the "emergency" issues are taken care of.

> > >

> > > Well first off. I think “ went to eat lunch “ is as much or more hearsay as any other part of the article. Nobody anywhere says the kid came back eating a corn dog. That was just a flippant comment by the official .... like saying “ he’s out to lunch “ meaning ...gone.

> > >

> > > But hey. Whatever I guess. Without being there it’s hard to say for sure. The kid May have been a silver spoon cake eater who deserved it for being defiant. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the USga has more instances of things like this than any organization I can name. Grey area rules descriptions that are enforced with an iron fist , and a side of “ if you’d only knocked 3 times and said the magic words we’d have made an exception “. The rule doesn’t stipulate anything except “ prompt “ which is defined as being “ done without delay, immediate “. But yet offers an imaginary exception for medical reasons , which apparently has to be applied for before the emergency. I don’t know about you guys. But when a case of the trots hits I don’t have time to bow and scrape to an official in a tent . I gots to go. The very definition of emergency would lead one to believe there isn’t time for explanation.

> > >

> > > Again. We don’t know. But we do know that 2 wrongs never make a right.

> >

> > Couldn't he have told his playing partners walking off the 18th? Can't say I've heard of many emergencies that would have prevented a quick "gotta use the head, be there in 15" short of cardiac arrest or an aneurysm which people may have noticed.

>

> Anything is possible in either direction. We don’t know the dynamic between players during the round. We don’t know the direction of bathrooms vs the other players and the scoring area. A lot of unknowns. It’s just not a cut and dried situation. At all. And to me in a vague situation with no clear chain of evidence etc 10 minutes isn’t outside of “ prompt”.

>

> I also find it odd that a. Omnipresent force like a USga official can have the power to DQ after 8-10 minutes and yet be absent the power to reconsider once more info comes in. One would think that a rules stickler would indeed be interested in all rules being adhered to not just the ones that bring that rush of satisfaction that a DQ apparently brings.

>

> What I’m saying is , if indeed a medical issue existed , isn’t the committee breaking its own rule by not allowing time for recovery , BEFORE card signing ? This is from the officials mouth via quote. I don’t see the time at which The info becomes known to make any difference so long as it came in before the next round.

 

USGA, PGA, and LPGA officials are equivalent to officials in other sports. Once a call has been made on the football field or by the umpire, even later after the video has been reviewed, the call is seldom recanted. It's the nature of the "official" beast. As I stated in my post and in the article, when the boy was asked what he was doing for 15mins, he didn't say anything about being ill. There are specific rules that address being ill during a tournament. As for your ladder statement about the flexibility of time, there has to be a time limit to protect the field. Otherwise, it would be abused. Remember, players, keep each others scorecards and attest. Using your line of thought, the three other playing partners would have to sit and wait for the kid to get to the table. I've played in many amateur events and a few qualifiers and can attest, wouldn't like having to sit around and wait for someone to show up at the scoring tent. I've also been in the scores tent and a party to two guys being DQ'd. It's not enjoyable at times to follow the letter of the rules.

 

It surprises me how many people on Golfwrx argue against rules and consequences.

 

[chigolfer1]

> @davep043 said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > Anything is possible in either direction. We don’t know the dynamic between players during the round. We don’t know the direction of bathrooms vs the other players and the scoring area. A lot of unknowns. It’s just not a cut and dried situation. At all. And to me in a vague situation with no clear chain of evidence etc 10 minutes isn’t outside of “ prompt”.

> >

> > I also find it odd that a. Omnipresent force like a USga official can have the power to DQ after 8-10 minutes and yet be absent the power to reconsider once more info comes in. One would think that a rules stickler would indeed be interested in all rules being adhered to not just the ones that bring that rush of satisfaction that a DQ apparently brings.

> >

> > What I’m saying is , if indeed a medical issue existed , isn’t the committee breaking its own rule by not allowing time for recovery , BEFORE card signing ? This is from the officials mouth via quote. I don’t see the time at which The info becomes known to make any difference so long as it came in before the next round.

>

> The way I am interpreting the news articles, it seems as if no mention was made of the reason for the delay at the time. Dad never says "I told them he was in the can, and then had to get his migraine meds, and they blew me off". The officials say that no mention of health issues was made at the time. I don't know how much time they had between rounds, but if 62 players are playing from #1 tee, and need to complete 36 holes, they had to be pretty tight. Its reasonably possible that the officials never heard the whole story in time for the player to begin his second round, and by then it was too late.

 

This seems to be the main issue here. If it's true no reason was given for the delay, that is completely different than notifying people and saying, hey, I am in bad shape, I need to do this quick before we sign.

[bscinstnct]

> @RainShadow said:

> Just another snowflake thinking rules are just guidlines, with no consequences for breaking them.

> Current state of society and getting worse....

 

When do you think this phrase was first coined? I'm thinkin like,

 

 

65,000 BC -somewhere in what is now Eastern Europe....

"Hey, Grom, stop complain you hungry. Eat some rocks. Last moon, I so hungry, I eat my leg. You just another snowflake. Current state of society and getting worse"

[soregongolfer]

> @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> I don't have an opinion on the ruling. I will, however, say (to nobody in particular) if you haven't had a **** attack during a competitive round that needed to be addressed immediately "or else", then I envy you. I've experienced and/or seen everything from sprinting two holes back to the facilities, to addressing the situation in the woods and losing a headcover.

 

Been there and done that on numerous occasions. I run/powerwalk everyday and I've had to dive into trees off of the road on many, many occasions. This should have been handled a lot better by the adults in the equation.

[bladehunter]

> @Pepperturbo said:

> > @bladehunter said:

> > > @"DFS PFD" said:

> > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > @davep043 said:

> > > > > > @bladehunter said:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I read and cited that very quote 3 pages ago. And I asked why it wasn’t a good reason to revisit the DQ ? Why does the medical issue have to be reported ahead of the treatment ? Does the rule state this ? Nobody says. Now you cite the quote in support of the USga ? Lol. My questions are still there.

> > > > >

> > > > > To me, a quick statement to the officials, or even to one of the other players, before running to the head and to get meds is a "reason". To claim a medical emergency after the fact (if a headache he's had for 2 hours or so can be an emergency), or even a bathroom emergency, sounds more like an "excuse". If he indeed made a detour to get a bite to eat, and to take a gander at the scoreboards before he went to turn in his card, that would be unnecessary delay in my book. And based on what I read, neither the player nor his father say that they brought up the pit stop and meds during the discussion with the officials, that came out during interviews with the press.

> > > > > But I don't know about the potential for a DQ to be overturned. If its a possibility, how do the officials weigh additional stops after the "emergency" issues are taken care of.

> > > >

> > > > Well first off. I think “ went to eat lunch “ is as much or more hearsay as any other part of the article. Nobody anywhere says the kid came back eating a corn dog. That was just a flippant comment by the official .... like saying “ he’s out to lunch “ meaning ...gone.

> > > >

> > > > But hey. Whatever I guess. Without being there it’s hard to say for sure. The kid May have been a silver spoon cake eater who deserved it for being defiant. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the USga has more instances of things like this than any organization I can name. Grey area rules descriptions that are enforced with an iron fist , and a side of “ if you’d only knocked 3 times and said the magic words we’d have made an exception “. The rule doesn’t stipulate anything except “ prompt “ which is defined as being “ done without delay, immediate “. But yet offers an imaginary exception for medical reasons , which apparently has to be applied for before the emergency. I don’t know about you guys. But when a case of the trots hits I don’t have time to bow and scrape to an official in a tent . I gots to go. The very definition of emergency would lead one to believe there isn’t time for explanation.

> > > >

> > > > Again. We don’t know. But we do know that 2 wrongs never make a right.

> > >

> > > Couldn't he have told his playing partners walking off the 18th? Can't say I've heard of many emergencies that would have prevented a quick "gotta use the head, be there in 15" short of cardiac arrest or an aneurysm which people may have noticed.

> >

> > Anything is possible in either direction. We don’t know the dynamic between players during the round. We don’t know the direction of bathrooms vs the other players and the scoring area. A lot of unknowns. It’s just not a cut and dried situation. At all. And to me in a vague situation with no clear chain of evidence etc 10 minutes isn’t outside of “ prompt”.

> >

> > I also find it odd that a. Omnipresent force like a USga official can have the power to DQ after 8-10 minutes and yet be absent the power to reconsider once more info comes in. One would think that a rules stickler would indeed be interested in all rules being adhered to not just the ones that bring that rush of satisfaction that a DQ apparently brings.

> >

> > What I’m saying is , if indeed a medical issue existed , isn’t the committee breaking its own rule by not allowing time for recovery , BEFORE card signing ? This is from the officials mouth via quote. I don’t see the time at which The info becomes known to make any difference so long as it came in before the next round.

>

> USGA, PGA, and LPGA officials are equivalent to officials in other sports. Once a call has been made on the football field or by the umpire, even later after the video has been reviewed, the call is seldom recanted. It's the nature of the "official" beast. As I stated in my post and in the article, when the boy was asked what he was doing for 15mins, he didn't say anything about being ill. There are specific rules that address being ill during a tournament. As for your ladder statement about the flexibility of time, there has to be a time limit to protect the field. Otherwise, it would be abused. Remember, players, keep each others scorecards and attest. Using your line of thought, the three other playing partners would have to sit and wait for the kid to get to the table. I've played in many amateur events and a few qualifiers and can attest, wouldn't like having to sit around and wait for someone to show up at the scoring tent. I've also been in the scores tent and a party to two guys being DQ'd. It's not enjoyable at times to follow the letter of the rules.

>

> It surprises me how many people on Golfwrx argue against rules and consequences.

>

 

It’s not that I argue against rules and consequences. It’s that I believe the rule to lend the committee too much leave for interpretation. Why not just put it on a 5 minute clock ? Over and 2 shots. Over 7 DQ. Or similar. No judgment call needed. That’s assuming an official knows when they finish 18. If no official knows this. Then ?? Wth are we even talking about? Lol.

[bladehunter]

> @soregongolfer said:

> > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > I don't have an opinion on the ruling. I will, however, say (to nobody in particular) if you haven't had a **** attack during a competitive round that needed to be addressed immediately "or else", then I envy you. I've experienced and/or seen everything from sprinting two holes back to the facilities, to addressing the situation in the woods and losing a headcover.

>

> Been there and done that on numerous occasions. I run/powerwalk everyday and I've had to dive into trees off of the road on many, many occasions. This should have been handled a lot better by the adults in the equation.

 

Yea. I think that’s my takeaway. Some 16 year olds are near adults. Some are closer to 12. I have a 10 year old and I imagine adding 6 years to him and have it be him. I’d love to hope that no fewer than 4 adults maybe 6 counting playing partners if they were adults , could manage to help guide a kid who was sick. If the sick story is BS then F-em and feed-em beans. But if it’s true. I think the duty of adults are to reasonably try to help guide a clear minor in a situation like that. His father clearly failed. As did the coach. But I also think the official/s failed as a human too. Anyone can be lazy and say “ DQ “ kid. But hey. That’s just like my opinion .... man. Take it easy folks. I’m ok with your opinions too.

[soregongolfer]

> @bladehunter said:

> > @soregongolfer said:

> > > @"Ashley Schaeffer" said:

> > > I don't have an opinion on the ruling. I will, however, say (to nobody in particular) if you haven't had a **** attack during a competitive round that needed to be addressed immediately "or else", then I envy you. I've experienced and/or seen everything from sprinting two holes back to the facilities, to addressing the situation in the woods and losing a headcover.

> >

> > Been there and done that on numerous occasions. I run/powerwalk everyday and I've had to dive into trees off of the road on many, many occasions. This should have been handled a lot better by the adults in the equation.

>

> Yea. I think that’s my takeaway. Some 16 year olds are near adults. Some are closer to 12. I have a 10 year old and I imagine adding 6 years to him and have it be him. I’d love to hope that no fewer than 4 adults maybe 6 counting playing partners if they were adults , could manage to help guide a kid who was sick. If the sick story is BS then F-em and feed-em beans. But if it’s true. I think the duty of adults are to reasonably try to help guide a clear minor in a situation like that. His father clearly failed. As did the coach. But I also think the official/s failed as a human too. Anyone can be lazy and say “ DQ “ kid. But hey. That’s just like my opinion .... man. Take it easy folks. I’m ok with your opinions too.

 

I wonder how old the official was. The older I get, the more I find myself keeping track of where the bathrooms are lol. I think an older official would have more sympathy for the kid.

[North Texas]

Here's the bottom line. The facts are totally immaterial in any story involving the USGA. Why? Because, no matter what the USGA is always wrong! When is everyone going to learn that? It is easily the most inept organization that has ever existed. Just ask golfwrx ;)