USGA? Teen DQ'd from Sectional for going to the bathroom before turning in his scorecard

[oz dee cee]

15 minutes? It’s over a losy 15 minutes? Pros can’t finish a round in 5 1/2hours.

[JohnnyCashForever]

> @BlackDiamondPar5 said:

> Perhaps there maybe more of a back story.

I hope so. I'm counting on this thread to get me to the weekend!

 

[OldTomMorris]

> @"oz dee cee" said:

> 15 minutes? It’s over a losy 15 minutes? Pros can’t finish a round in 5 1/2hours.

 

According to reports he disappeared, pros go straight to the scoring area when they finish at 18 and the time the round takes is completely irrelevant.

 

Possibly he considered not playing the second round after posting a poor first round and went AWOL. Then he was talked into submitting card so he could play the second 18. Why disappear without informing anyone if there was a genuine need to go away?

 

This whole incident doesn't pass the smell test for me.

[tiderider]

> @golfandfishing said:

> “why the **** does he get DQ'd? It's not as if he tried to cheat.”

>

> You don’t have to try to cheat to get DQ’d, that’s silly. If you show up 6 minutes late for your tee time it’s DQ, obviously no intent to cheat there. Tons of situations lead to DQ that don’t imply or require cheating. Cheating at the level of this event is almost unheard of, but DQ happens frequently. It’s the result of rules actually being enforced by a ruling body, not cheating by the players.

 

horrible analogy ... being late for a tee time does not carry the effects of taking 10 minutes to get to a scorer's table ... whoever the mid-management jackass is who dq'd the kid, he/she missed a golden opportunity to do the right thing on 2 fronts: explain to the kid when he returns that unless there's an emergency, go straight to the scorer's tent and hand in your card ... then take the kid's card and post the score ... it really wasn't that difficult to do the right thing here, but i'm going to stereotype and say the official was enamored with his admin position in the golf tournament and decided to feed his ego/self worth ...

[Golfjack]

So let’s hand a trophy to kids for handing in their scorecards, even if late. Kudos. Who cares about rules. Other guys can hand in their cards after they go take a walk in the park as long as it was a prompt walk.

[Ferguson]

No accountability to the rules and regulations.

 

The player was in the wrong and rightly DQ'd.

[golfandfishing]

Here’s a thing: he was playing with 2 others, he was keeping the card for one and he kept the card for the other. You have about 30 minutes between rounds at events like this, these two guys had to wait in the scoring area for this kid to turn up. They want to also use the bathroom, grab food, maybe change shirts/shoes/socks and get ready for the afternoon round. This kid occupied 1/3 to 1/2 of their time while doing his thing. 15 minutes is a big deal between rounds of a 36 hole day.

 

 

> @"oz dee cee" said:

> 15 minutes? It’s over a losy 15 minutes? Pros can’t finish a round in 5 1/2hours.

 

 

[bscinstnct]

The USGA

 

Stealing the dreams of 16 years olds

 

 

 

.

 

 

 

 

Hey, I hear they are recruiting Bookman to be the next Director ; )

 

 

 

[North Butte]

If you sign up to play in a USGA event, you are in effect consenting to be jerked around at random by silly Rules sticklers. Happens from everyone to the best players in the world down to some kid entering a qualifier. As it is, was and (I suspect) ever shall be, alas.

[dcmidnight]

> @"sui generis" said:

> Anyone who's played ANY level of competitive golf knows to leave the putting green of the final hole and accompany the players with whom he has just played the round to the designated scoring area. It takes seven minutes max to check the 18 numbers in the 18 boxes and apply two signatures to the scorecard. Not doing so is not "promptly." Many kids learn by their mistakes.

 

 

Couldn't agree more. I've played in a number of am events - certainly not at this level - but even in those events you just *know* - signing your card and turning it in, thats the absolute first thing you do. Even if you are mad at a bad round and you just swipe a signature, it takes 60 seconds or less. If this kid has played in events like this before, I simply dont believe that he didnt know he had to do this so I'm OK with not bagging on the USGA for turning this into a "teaching moment".

 

Something also doesnt sound right about his medical excuse. I suffered from migraines for years so I understand how bad they can be. But I also never went *anywhere* without medication. I had them at work, had them in my car, had them at home obviously - and always had them in my GOLF BAG. So he suffers from the potential for such bad migraines but never tucks a pill or two into his bag? Maybe I missed something about that part of the story.

[golfandfishing]

“But I also never went anywhere without medication. I had them at work, had them in my car, had them at home obviously - and always had them in my GOLF BAG. So he suffers from the potential for such bad migraines but never tucks a pill or two into his bag? Maybe I missed something about that part of the story.”

 

Agree. Why wouldn’t one of his entourage go get the meds mid round anyway? Why wait until the round was over? send one of his posse to get his meow meow.

[munichop]

This kind of dq is what frustrates many people about the USGA. They have a "gotcha" mentality when arbitrary protocols are not followed while consistently missing the bigger picture on equipment regulation. They are the definition of the type of group that misses the forest for the trees. So they dq someone after the round due to a time violation while they ignore time violations during the round. Great consistency.

[JaNelson38]

For events like these, aren't fellow player(s) used to attest to the score the player is turning in? Perhaps that's a reason they want the scoring in right away...so everyone in the pairing/grouping turns in their scores at the same time. Especially if you are having your official score tallied by your playing partner.

 

Im assuming the PGA Tour has a similar code of turning in your card right away, as you almost never get interviews with players after a round until they turn in their scorecard...about the only exception is the 2-minute interview that TV gives the winner on the 18th green. But otherwise, its almost always putt out on 18, shake hands, march immediately to the scoring tent.

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @Philomathesq said:

> > @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > @MidwestGolfBum said:

> > > > > @Philomathesq said:

> > > > > > @tatertot said:

> > > > > > We may not be getting the full story here.

> > > > >

> > > > > It's hard to imagine what we could be missing when the USGA made a statement that says that kid was DQ'd because he did not promptly turn in his scorecard. There is a dispute as to whether or not he turned his card in 10 or 15 minutes after the round, but that seems to be the only dispute.

> > > > >

> > > > > Making it worse is that the USGA's "belief" is that the kid took that 15 minutes to get lunch. First, where in the **** did he procure and eat lunch in 15 minutes, and second, three parties (the kid, his dad, and his swing coach) all indicated he had to get medicine and use the head.

> > > >

> > > > He was playing with others, obviously. He could and should have told them that he had to hit the head. The headache wasn't going to go away immediately with some medicine, so that could have waited. I'm not saying that the USGA is right in this, but the kid could have been more proactive about how he went about all of the post round stuff. Even stopping by the scorers table, which is never that far from the parking lot, to let them know what was going on would have improved his situation.

> > >

> > > I don't necessarily disagree with you. However, this seems like such an overreach. I'm all for teaching moments, but this is not a punishment that fits the "crime." Getting DQ'd from a sectional because you showed up a few minutes late to the scorer's table because you had to hit the head, especially when there are no allegations that the kid attempted to cheat or gain some advantage.

> >

> > **He turned his card in, at least according to those at the scorers table, after the group behind him.** I've seen it happen in state events, it's never a pretty thing to have happen. While I feel awful for the young man who missed his opportunity to try to get in with a fantastic second round, as well as not really being anything remotely close to a fan of the USGA, this seems like it was the right call that was made. Given his group allegedly had no idea where he went, being more communicative would have saved him here.

>

> This is another point of contention. The kid and his dad claim he returned while the two guys he was playing with were still at the scorer's table and the group behind them hadn't yet reached the 18th green. The officials say otherwise. While I get that the kid could be lying, it's hard to imagine that in 10 minutes the group behind the kid could have completed their round and finalized and signed their scorecards.

 

See, the scoring officials say it was closer to 15 minutes, not 10 that the kid and his dad are claiming. 15 minutes is more than enough time to have the group behind finish, and sign their cards.

 

This all goes back to the fact that he told nobody in his group what was going on. He could have said just one quick thing to one of the other 2 in his group and there likely would have been no issue at all., even more so because of the fact that if you are feeling ill, you get a little extra time to see if you can continue.

[dcmidnight]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> For events like these, aren't fellow player(s) used to attest to the score the player is turning in? Perhaps that's a reason they want the scoring in right away...so everyone in the pairing/grouping turns in their scores at the same time. Especially if you are having your official score tallied by your playing partner.

>

> Im assuming the PGA Tour has a similar code of turning in your card right away, as you almost never get interviews with players after a round until they turn in their scorecard...about the only exception is the 2-minute interview that TV gives the winner on the 18th green. But otherwise, its almost always putt out on 18, shake hands, march immediately to the scoring tent.

 

Correct he was marking for another player. And apparently he was gone so long - and the other players had no idea where he was - that they had to start piecing together his scores on a blank scorecard. Then he finally showed up. Everyone there also said that the kid made no mention of his headache or going to get his car to get medicine when he finally showed up at the scorers table - no mention. Because the committee clearly said they could have made an exception to the DQ rule for medical reasons. But they didnt know because he never said anything to them - and the only time they heard this part of the story was after the fact.

 

 

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @JaNelson38 said:

> For events like these, aren't fellow player(s) used to attest to the score the player is turning in? Perhaps that's a reason they want the scoring in right away...so everyone in the pairing/grouping turns in their scores at the same time. Especially if you are having your official score tallied by your playing partner.

>

> Im assuming the PGA Tour has a similar code of turning in your card right away, as you almost never get interviews with players after a round until they turn in their scorecard...about the only exception is the 2-minute interview that TV gives the winner on the 18th green. But otherwise, its almost always putt out on 18, shake hands, march immediately to the scoring tent.

 

For every event that I have ever played in, be that high school many moons ago, city tournaments, state golf association run events, or USGA events, you exchange cards with playing partners before the first ball is hit. There is never a time in competition that you should be keeping you own, official, score. As was mentioned, on the sectional days you have very limited time between rounds and need to get moving quickly so you can do everything you need or want to do between your 18 hole rounds morning and afternoon. That's a big reason for needing to get to scoring so quickly on days like this. Other days, where you're only playing 18, for example, unless there is an emergency there's absolutely zero reason that you can't walk from your last hole to the scoring tent/table. You can get your cards signed and turned in and have the rest of your day to hit the head, get some food, take a walk, whatever it is you want to do.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

> @dcmidnight said:

> > @JaNelson38 said:

> > For events like these, aren't fellow player(s) used to attest to the score the player is turning in? Perhaps that's a reason they want the scoring in right away...so everyone in the pairing/grouping turns in their scores at the same time. Especially if you are having your official score tallied by your playing partner.

> >

> > Im assuming the PGA Tour has a similar code of turning in your card right away, as you almost never get interviews with players after a round until they turn in their scorecard...about the only exception is the 2-minute interview that TV gives the winner on the 18th green. But otherwise, its almost always putt out on 18, shake hands, march immediately to the scoring tent.

>

> Correct he was marking for another player. And apparently he was gone so long - and the other players had no idea where he was - that they had to start piecing together his scores on a blank scorecard. Then he finally showed up. Everyone there also said that the kid made no mention of his headache or going to get his car to get medicine when he finally showed up at the scorers table - no mention. Because the committee clearly said they could have made an exception to the DQ rule for medical reasons. But they didnt know because he never said anything to them - and the only time they heard this part of the story was after the fact.

>

>

 

If correct ^^^^ then that is the type of backstory that would be deserving a DQ.

A more accurate headline for the article would be: **"16 Year Old golfer is DQ'd after he leaves others scrambling to determine their scores when he disappeared with scorecard for group."**

[DFS PFD]

You guys should try showing up 15 minutes late to your tee time at a Open qualifier and let us know how it goes. The committees make one exception for this kid being inexplicably 15 minutes late to scoring, next thing you know that's the precedent for everyone else to follow. DQ was the proper decision. And despite what some of you may think, they didn't even have to call Mike Davis to make this "ruthless" decision.

[gioguy21]

so many questions:

 

1) on the 18th green, they shook hands, removed hats...and this kid failed to mention he had to bee-line it to the restroom?

2) it takes literally less than 15 seconds (should you be in a dire emergency) to tell the scorer - here's my opponents scorecard, i need to use the restroom, i will be right back (this would've allowed for the medical exemption discussion).

3) this seems entirely too odd to just happen inexplicably without cause or reasoning -- how about the players caddie? did he not know the kid had to go that bad?

4) could this have been alleviated by only having a clif bar at the turn instead of taco bell?

[15th Club]

Kudos to Yahoo Sports contributor Ryan Young for this report, which sheds enough light on the situation to inform me that, as usual, the USGA appears to be the victim of a hostile press and an ignorant anti-USGA general sports audience:

[https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html "https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html")

 

It is at once obvious and revealing to see all of the headlines (including in the Ryan Young/Yahoo piece) that seem to imply that the USGA disqualified a 16 year-old simply for using a bathroom, or for trying to find some medication that he needed. Period; full stop. And as usual, greater detail and nuance routinely exonerates the USGA.

 

Craig Winter, USGA senior director of rules and amateur status was asked about what would have or should have happened if the simple expediency of communicating to Rules staff what was going on with the player in question: “That would have changed the calculus of what this whole situation looked like significantly,” Winter said, via USA Today. “It's well established in the rule that players, should they become suddenly ill, have time to figure out, recuperate, see if they can continue. And that's no different if you just started your round or you're returning to scoring.”

 

And the really instructive thing about these USGA threads continues to be a demonstration of the popular freakouts against the USGA before much of the public truly understands what happened.

[caniac6]

If Tiger can make it to the scorer's area on a broken leg, this kid can go there before he goes to the bathroom. The correct ruling was applied.

[bscinstnct]

> @caniac6 said:

> If Tiger can make it to the scorer's area on a broken leg, this kid can go there before he goes to the bathroom. The correct ruling was applied.

 

Ha! Tigerrrrrrr!

 

Actually, it will be good.

 

This kid will grow up to be on the PGA Tour

 

And rip the USGA every chance he gets ; )

 

[MidwestGolfBum]

> @"15th Club" said:

> Kudos to Yahoo Sports contributor Ryan Young for this report, which sheds enough light on the situation to inform me that, as usual, the USGA appears to be the victim of a hostile press and an ignorant anti-USGA general sports audience:

> [https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html "https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html")

>

> It is at once obvious and revealing to see all of the headlines (including in the Ryan Young/Yahoo piece) that seem to imply that the USGA disqualified a 16 year-old simply for using a bathroom, or for trying to find some medication that he needed. Period; full stop. And as usual, greater detail and nuance routinely exonerates the USGA.

>

> Craig Winter, USGA senior director of rules and amateur status was asked about what would have or should have happened if the simple expediency of communicating to Rules staff what was going on with the player in question: “That would have changed the calculus of what this whole situation looked like significantly,” Winter said, via USA Today. “It's well established in the rule that players, should they become suddenly ill, have time to figure out, recuperate, see if they can continue. And that's no different if you just started your round or you're returning to scoring.”

>

> And the really instructive thing about these USGA threads continues to be a demonstration of the popular freakouts against the USGA before much of the public truly understands what happened.

 

15th, while you and I certainly haven't agreed on all things USGA, this is one of them that it would appear that we do. The fact that nobody in the group knew where the kid was and the fact that it took him 10+ (depending on story you want to believe) minutes to get to scoring, gives more than enough reason to show there was much more to this story. Does this fully exonerate the USGA from all the bad press, not even remotely, but it certainly makes this one a pretty much non-starter.

[North Butte]

The whole thing reminds me of being in Middle School. Lots of picky little rules and Zero Tolerance for violating any of them, ever.

 

Oooh goodness, he was gone for over ten minutes and nobody could find him. Detention for a week!

[DFS PFD]

> @"North Butte" said:

> The whole thing reminds me of being in Middle School. Lots of picky little rules and Zero Tolerance for violating any of them, ever.

>

> Oooh goodness, he was gone for over ten minutes and nobody could find him. Detention for a week!

 

I hope you play in a major tournament some day and your playing partner walks off with YOUR scorecard and no one can find him/it, then you'll get a better understanding.

[golfandfishing]

How about this:

Scorer- “anyone see junior?”

Silence

Scorer - “ seriously guys, where is junior?”

Player 1 - “not sure, he said something about just going to his car”

Player 2- “yeah, he was heading towards the parking lot. Haven’t seen him since”

Scorer - “ok. Let’s give him a few more minutes, maybe10, and if he isn’t back we’ll fill out your missing card and have your FC attest”

10 minutes later.....

 

“Still no junior? Ok, let’s sign those cards and let you two get on with the business of getting ready for your afternoon round, you are on the tee soon.”

 

Is that a more reasonable DQ? Because without the internet mob interpretation it’s almost certainly what happened.

 

> @"North Butte" said:

> The whole thing reminds me of being in Middle School. Lots of picky little rules and Zero Tolerance for violating any of them, ever.

>

> Oooh goodness, he was gone for over ten minutes and nobody could find him. Detention for a week!

 

 

[Ferguson]

Can you imagine?

 

Sunday at Pebble

 

Paul Azinger: "It's hard to believe Tiger Woods has won his 16th major title........and here at storied Pebble Beach. People are going crazy and the noise is deafening. However, something strange just happened..........Tiger seems to be running toward the courtesy area. Can you see what's happening, Joe Buck."

 

15 minutes later................................

 

Joe Buck: " Folks, that's a red shirt, but that's not tiger???"

 

 

 

 

"I'm back."

 

 

 

 

[JohnnyCashForever]

> @"15th Club" said:

> Kudos to Yahoo Sports contributor Ryan Young for this report, which sheds enough light on the situation to inform me that, as usual, the USGA appears to be the victim of a hostile press and an ignorant anti-USGA general sports audience:

> [https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html](https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html "https://sports.yahoo.com/us-open-pebble-beach-16-year-old-disqualified-qualifier-going-to-bathroom-220046091.html")

>

> It is at once obvious and revealing to see all of the headlines (including in the Ryan Young/Yahoo piece) that seem to imply that the USGA disqualified a 16 year-old simply for using a bathroom, or for trying to find some medication that he needed. Period; full stop. And as usual, greater detail and nuance routinely exonerates the USGA.

>

> Craig Winter, USGA senior director of rules and amateur status was asked about what would have or should have happened if the simple expediency of communicating to Rules staff what was going on with the player in question: “That would have changed the calculus of what this whole situation looked like significantly,” Winter said, via USA Today. “It's well established in the rule that players, should they become suddenly ill, have time to figure out, recuperate, see if they can continue. And that's no different if you just started your round or you're returning to scoring.”

>

> And the really instructive thing about these USGA threads continues to be a demonstration of the popular freakouts against the USGA before much of the public truly understands what happened.

 

_"[The 16 yo kid] had been marking another player’s score on his own, per the report, and the other two started piecing together his round on a blank scorecard while they started looking for him. [Craig] Winter [uSGA Senior Director of Rules of Golf and Amateur Status], though, said that “**nobody knew what he looked like**.” Winter continues, "**He's obviously a young player who hasn't played a lot in that area.**"_

 

So nobody knew what the kid looked like? Not even his playing competitors, or his father, or his swing coach? And, obviously, the 16 yo kid hasn't played a lot in that area...whatever that means (I think it's basically a gratuitous ad hominem to qualitatively defend their decision to DQ the kid).

 

Since the USGA Senior Director of Rules of Golf and Amateur Status wasn't actually at the tournament, it is amazing that he is able to state these "facts" so definitively just by talking with the tournament officials, who apparently have no self-interest in biasing the story to make themselves look innocent. Please 15th, don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

 

 

[2putttom]

" Once Fox arrived at the scorer’s table, the committee sought an explanation for what happened. Winter said there was no mention of a headache, and his ‘no card’ turned into a disqualification.

 

“That would have changed the calculus of what this whole situation looked like significantly,” Winter said, referring to Fox’s statement that he went to retrieve medicine for a headache. “It’s well established in the rule that players, should they become suddenly ill, have time to figure out, recuperate, see if they can continue. And that’s no different if you just started your round or you’re returning to scoring."

 

So to summarize, communication would have been vital. Sad that this young man's action was made to be an example. I'd rather it be DeChambeau.

[RainShadow]

Just another snowflake thinking rules are just guidlines, with no consequences for breaking them.

Current state of society and getting worse....