2020 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[AzSuperHack76]

I have been behind the Saturday game at Aguila on a couple of occasions. It was an absolute joke and insanely slow.

 

First time I put up with it thinking it was a one time thing. Played 18 a little over 5 hours. Second time we left after nine, we were the first group behind the game the second time. We were a few minutes shy of 3 hour front nine. Just one of the idiotic things that I saw.... Grab rangefinder, point, shoot, repeat multiple times. After rangefinder routine then find and pace off a sprinkler/tree/pole/water/bunker/etc./etc. then repeat rangefinder routine to make sure all the other BS routine was good. Over, and over, and over again.

 

I don’t care how good or how bad you are, just play at a decent pace. It’s a Saturday skins game, no need for the BS. I watched guys literally walk/pace off 6 foot putts. These guys made JB Holmes and Bryson look like speed golfers.

[azgolfer44]

I don’t understand why the course puts up with it. There should never be 5 hour rounds, at any course.

[OspreyCI]

Thanks AZ. Glad to know it wasn’t just me. I won’t be going back there on a Saturday afternoon. Love the course, just not those types of players.

[AzSuperHack76]

It was frustrating to say the least. I hope they police themselves and speed it up. Who knows, it also could have been slow play holding them up ahead as well, either way the shenanigans I saw was over the top.

[DBill]

Anyone play Johnson Ranch lately? Haven't ventured out that way and thinking of playing an afternoon round after work this week to check it out.

Overall thoughts on the course in general. Not expecting to be blown away or anything just feel like playing a new course.

[puttnforthe8]

2 weeks ago - average to below average conditions across the course. Front nine (old back 9) is lots of fun - dumbest thing in AZ golf switching the 9s. Greens were not bad.

[FlashNoonan]

Had the privilege to play Falcon Dunes this past weekend. Wonderful course and hope I can get back on it soon. Greens seemed a little slow (not even going to try and guess the stimp#) but rolled perfectly. Fairways were in great shape as well.

[Argonne69]

After a short trip back home, it was back to the links today. Gorgeous day. I walked Sun City South. Certainly nothing to get excited about. I did like the fact that the homes are set way back from the fairways. Plenty of breathing room. Decent mix of holes, but no real highlights. Fairways were in excellent shape. The dormant rough was thin and muddy in spots. Sand was excellent. 'Nice and fluffy. Impressed. Greens were also very nice. Plenty of tiering and undulations. Speed was very good at 10 to 11. I'd rate it a 3.5.

[Argonne69]

Don't think we could ask for a nicer day. Apache Creek today. Decent layout. It reminded me a bit of Falcon GC. A natural look that isn't unkept. Good mix of holes. Tricky greens with some head scratching breaks. Fairly generous fairways, but little rough. If you missed a fairway you were generally playing out of the desert.

Conditions were very good. Greens looked great, but were too slow for my liking. Rolled at no more than 9. I'd rate it a 4.

[OspreyCI]

Good stuff. Been wanting to play Apache Creek since it’s not far from the house. Looks to be worth it . Keep the reviews coming.

[Argonne69]

Kokopelli GC today, my 50th round and 50th course on this trip. First, the positive. Nice piece of terrain for a course. Like Ocotillo, it didn't feel like an Arizona course. Wetlands? Love the mounding. Very good bunkering. Fairways are quite narrow, which probably explains the 135 slope from the black tees. Par 5s were very good, and I liked the mix of par 4s. The 3s looked nice, but all played roughly the same distance.

Now for the negative. Conditions were mediocre at best. Bunkers were trash. Greens were slow, 7 to 8. There were more unfixed and poorly fixed ballmarks than any other course I've played. The players should be ashamed. I stopped counting at 20 on the 3rd green. Fairways were playable, but had a few thin spots. Off the fairway was baren dirt. This is not what I would consider "natural". It was simply not maintained. They must have had the sprinklers going all night, as there was standing water in many places, and enough mud to need lift, clean, and place. If the place put a little effort into the maintenance, it could be a very nice course. I'd rate it a 3.5 (5 for layout, and 2 for conditions).

[teejaywhy]

Is there a Popos down there or something.

 

[OspreyCI]

Perfect assessment of Kokopelli. I live near it and play it often for a quick 9 after work or just want to play cheap. Agree with you assessment. Enjoy your reviews.

[ferrispgm]

Kokopelli strikes me as a course that could be pretty decent if they pumped some money into it and maintained it a little better. I haven't played it in a while but I remember thinking there were some good holes and I liked the overall feel of the course. It may be a touch out of place but it felt more natural to me than McCormick Ranch which I despise with passion.

[Bonneville85308]

Kokopelli is automatically on my "no play" list even if free since it is managed by Arcis and is typical of the public courses they manage. Meaning conditions are always wet/muddy with thin fairway grass and concrete bunkers, everything 5+ yards off the fairway is weed-riddled hardpan, tee times are at 7 minute intervals with no pace enforcement for a guaranteed 5+ hour round ("price it cheap and stack 'em deep"), and the cheap price attracts a lot of undesirable, f-ing clueless clientele with no sense of respect for the course or fellow players.

[fore_life]

Came here to post the same thing re Arcis

[lvlites]

Scottsdale Golf Group and Arcis....Taboo for me also

[ferrispgm]

Arcis definitely sucks....the only exception may be Raven but they overcharge for what it is in my opinion.

[Argonne69]

The pace at Kokopelli wasn't bad actually. I teed off at 8:20 am and finished in 3:50. Mind you it was a Wednesday, and we managed to get out in front of the men's league.

[Argonne69]

Moon Valley CC today. I got a GolfNow "HotDeal" for $130, instead of the standard rate of $160. I thought I would experience a better class of course. Pffffft. I should simply copy and paste my review for Kokopelli. I liked the layout. Par 5s were challenging, although three of them were the same dogleg left design. Good mix of par 4s, but again the threes basically played the same 185+ yds. The mature trees added an element of difficulty. There were several holes where I simply couldn't hit my standard draw.

Fairways were in nice shape. Greens looked and rolled very nicely at 9 to 10. The bunkers looked recently renovated, and were fantastic with fluffy new sand. Where the course fell on its face was the conditioning off the fairways. Ugh. It was a combination of dormant Bermuda, dead Bermuda, weeds, and hardpan. Very unsightly, and out of character for a course charging $150+. I'd rate it a 4 (layout 5, conditions 3). Honestly, I felt ripped off. The course should be $60 to $80.

[fore_life]

Most places are a rip-off here. As might be the most overrated golf destination for the actual golf, weather is hard to beat

[vallygolf]

It is an interesting dicotomy. The slew of courses needed to cater to the retired fixed income snowbirds (decidedly poor golf), and the true resort courses designed for the drinking buddy weekend warrior (playability over substance). With all that said though, and all things considered, I dont know of a better place to actually live and golf.

[Argonne69]

So what would the group say are the Goldilocks courses that cater to the local enthusiast golfer? Courses, oh, in the $60 to $90 range that one would play regularly without getting bored? I've been focusing on the retirement end of the spectrum on this stay. On previous visits I hit the high end courses. GCU?

[fore_life]

Aguila and southern dunes

[mikedejong33]

Dobson maybe? I know all the old cronies that my father in law plays with on a regular basis always play Dobson. I think they have a resident walking rate for super cheap.

[vallygolf]

Those are probably two of the best examples. There are some good balances to be found between the various cards and promotions. It usually becomes finding a deal at a place like whirlwind, longbow, or other upper mid tiered courses. There are a bunch more. TPC Champions, papago, GCU, Etc, Etc. Most can be had even during peak season at some point(with some promotions) for under $100 bucks.

[MackDaddy480]

I agree, TPC Champions has a good walking deal for residents.

[ferrispgm]

Aguila and Southern Dunes for sure....I'd throw in TPC Champions, both courses are Verrado, GCU, Verde River though it was better prior to renovations, and We Ko Pa Saguaro. Verrado, TPC, Verde and We Ko Pa probably more so in summer/fall though for price sake.

[Argonne69]

Standing on the par 3 4th tee at Western Skies. Who the hell designs a course with two reachable par 5s and two par 3s to start the front nine? There are four groups on the hole. It'll take over 1:15 to play the first four holes.

[Argonne69]

Anyway, I spoke to the starter, and he said that they switched the nines at some point because the old back thawed better after a frost delay. FFS. Why not send groups off the back on the handful of days that experience frost delays rather than create a bottleneck on the remaining 360 days? Maybe that smacks too much of common sense.

Very forgettable course. Playable, but ho hum. Conditions were decent. Greens were thin in spots, but still rolled nicely (10). Bunkers had nice sand, but unfortunately the players didn't seem to want to be bothered to rake them. Footprints galore. Pace was poor at 4:30. I'd rate it a 3.5.