2020 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[ferrispgm]

I disagree on the 18th at Victory....I think it's a good risk/reward hole. I play from the back tees but it gives you the opportunity to either play more left if I'm not swinging as well and play it as a 3 shotter due to the blind green or take it down the right side if I am swinging well and have a 4 iron into the green. It may not be the same as you move up tees but imo it's nice to have some risk/reward holes from the back tees since a lot of courses cater more to the tees in the 6,500 range.

[ckck81]

So, speaking about value and course “ratings”, we’re going down in a few weeks and are either playing Troon North for 36 or Verrado for 36. Verrado is half the cost. Ultimately we’re OK paying for Troon but my question is, is it really worth double?

I've done all the research and in the end, we’ll probably play Troon because it’s our only trip this year and if it’s a better experience (I dunno, 20% on some sort of scale), we’re fine paying for it.

Just curious on people’s thoughts.

[vallygolf]

Worth double is relative. Im with @az2au on the value perspective. For me if I am traveling to an area I consider courses first and value second, especially if I am traveling for golf. I cant fathom going to Kiawah, spending all the travel money and not playing the Ocean course. If we put them into a golf calculator it would say not worth double. If we put them into the context of what I want to play vs the alternatives, then probably worth double.

[Schley]

I don't think it is a poor hole, it is just a hole with a hero carry. One playing from the back tees, or towards the back should have that shot or the bail out is left which is quite a bit shorter. I actually yanked the crap out of my tee shot as we went all the way back for that hole and had more than 240 for sure IIRC. Like the hole and variety for adding in a hero carry.

[Schley]

Rate the course based on it's architectural merits with your rating, then put down the price. Totally separate the rating from price. Thus, the decision is would you pay $250 for a course rated a 6?

I use the Doak scale for it separates the top end courses better, which is what most people talk and care about (sans this thread I guess). Those unfamiliar can look it up, but an average course is a 3.

[Argonne69]

Palm Valley GC today (South/West). Boy, that's a hike out to the 1st tee on the West nine. Decent layout. No real complaints, but few standout holes. The par 3s were meh. The par 5s were reachable with a solid drive. The fairways are so generous. I didn't have my best swing today, but still managed 11/13 fairways.

Conditions were good. A few bare spots on the fairways, and a handful of thin spots on the greens, but playable. Greens were rolling at 9 to 10. I'd rate it a 3.5. Possibly pushing 4.

[Argonne69]

I think the Doak scale is nuts. Us average golfers are not architecture critics. I look at it from the average Joe's viewpoint. If someone is coming into town for the first time, is the course a must play? Is it a solid course worthy of a visit for the 2nd round of the day?

Lol. As a traveling golfer, I probably need to create my own scale. The ArgScale will value things that attract a one time only player vs. the local who will tee it up regularly.

On the trip down I played Karsten Creek. It's the #1 rated public course in Oklahoma. It likely stacks up nicely on the Doak scale, but cond were mediocre, and it set me back over $400. I felt ripped off. The next day I played The Rawls Course in Texas, the #1 ranked public course in the state. I paid $75. Both courses were probably highly rated on the Doak scale, so one would assume they'd both be worthy of play regardless of the price. Nope.

[AzSuperHack76]

West 9 has some big boy par 4’s from the tips. Greens still need a little time to settle but they’ve done a good job with the conditions for being a new 9 holes.

[toypor]

I agree. I typically play one up from the back tees at Victory. Played it 5-6 times or so. I am probably average length for a mid to high single digit hdcp and find plenty of risk reward from these tees. If I’m not swinging well or into the wind, the best option is to play left off the tee. Gives me plenty of room to hit it and not a long carry. Certainly not getting to the green, but lay-up is also more challenging. Getting past/left of the rock becomes very dicey. Plenty of bailout to the right, but have a little longer shot into the green that may be somewhat blind. Taking on the risk down the right side off the tee with a solid drive, I have reached the green in 2 with the fairways playing firm and fast

IMHO it is a vey fun golf course very worthy of multiple plays.

 

 

[puttnforthe8]

Wow--- that is a tough one bud. Putting my local hat, if it is truly half the cost - then Verrado is a no brainer.

My opinion:

-The golf I think is better at Verrado.

-The views and ooh/ahh factor of rocks and scenery is better at Troon; Troon has much more, ooh that's a cool hole.

-The Troon courses are easier than Verrado.

-There is more overall peace (less houses) btw. the Verrado courses over Troon

-The greens are better at Troon, but mark up easily and divots are often poorly/not repaired which can make the greens look awful; Verrado are firm greens and often no divots and look good; Speed is probably the same; challenges on the greens about the same

-Fairways both equally good; bunkers will be a wee bit better at Troon

-Locker Room/Shower facilities at Troon;

-The facilities are about the same at both

-The 19th hole/restaurants are both very good at both courses

 

[ferrispgm]

I would rather do Verrado if it were me. Troon is nice but not worth the cost in my opinion as I think the actual quality of golf is better at both Verrado courses. They are both still pretty scenic as well. Would you be able to sneak another round into your trip? If so, you could use the money saved and play another course like Golf Club of Estrella which is pretty good as well or if you don't mind the drive...go to Wickenburg Ranch.

[ckck81]

Appreciate the comments and advice. Our current plan is Day 1: Wickenburg Ranch Day 2: Troon / Verrado for 36 and Day 3: Southern Dunes.

Based on this and other thoughts I think we might do Day 1: Wickenburg Ranch Day 2: 36 at Southern Dunes Day 3: We Ko Pa Saguaro

All in all, not too stressed about it, your comments and forum has been super helpful. I’ve been trying to find a way on WeKoPa but they’re booked on the day we are golfing 36.

[Argonne69]

Troon to Verrado is quite a hike. You're looking at an hour with no traffic.

[Argonne69]

Deer Valley GC today. After an hour frost delay, I appreciated the 3:45 pace. The Sun City West courses are very playable, but not particularly memorable. This falls into that category. Generous fairways again. Ho hum par 3s. Short par 4s were meh.

Conditions were very good. Greens looked great, and were rolling at 9 or so. It's nice to see the players taking care of the course. Didn't find an unfixed ballmark all day. I'd rate it a 3.5.

[ckck81]

I meant that we’d choose 1 to play 36 at.

[capking]

Have you done Awutukee yet? We played it the last day we were there. 5 hour round and houses pretty close.

[DBill]

Aguila this afternoon. Conditions were decent for me. A lot of divots on the greens and pace of play was horrible. Waiting every single shot, multiple groups stacked up on tee boxes. Played the front nine in 2 hours and 40 min as a twosome. No Marshall anywhere to be seen.

[Argonne69]

Lol. Not yet. I've been putting it off as long as I can, but I'm running out of courses. Can't say I'm looking forward to it. Hopefully I can pick a quiet day midweek to experience it in all its glory.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Played there this afternoon. I really enjoyed the course. Took 3:15 to play the front though. The 3 people I was paired with, stopped at the turn. I continued on for 3 more holes. We went off at 1:52, so I wasn't expecting to finish, but I thought we'd get closer. The Starter said carts have to be back at 6, so I pulled the plug about a quarter to. Scratched my golf itch though.

What kind of grass is the dormant stuff off the fairway around the greens? There were a few spot where it was long and laying down like it had a lot of water running over it. Couple tricky chips/pitches with that stuff laying down "against the grain" so to speak.

[fore_life]

That should be the dormant Bermuda

[fore_life]

Playing foothills tomorrow morning for $26 at 8:56, fully expecting to see Argone out there as he’s prob running out of dog tracks to play

[Bonneville85308]

I don’t think he has played Tres Rios or Bellair, he has not quite hit rock bottom yet...

[Argonne69]

Lol. Foothills and Tres Rios are on the list. Bellair is an executive course, so I'll likely skip it unless we get a day of horrible weather.

'Nice hike this morning to The Lookout. It was my 6th 1000+ ft climb in the past six weeks.

[OspreyCI]

That place is out of control with their money groups. Like 5 groups of JB Holmes every Sat. Ridiculous!

[deadsolid...shank]

Such a shame, my old “home” course when we lived there. Was in such good shape then. Played there a couple years ago, it was actually sad the condition it was in.

[puttnforthe8]

Southern Ridge too (old Bouganvillea course) too.

[az2au]

Southern Ridge aka Bougainville aka Cotton Fields aka something else used to be 36 holes of terrible golf instead of 18. It was the worst complex I recall playing back when I was trying to hit everything.

ETA: I think the "something else" was Pohlcat or something stupid like that :)

[capking]

It’s pretty tight with the houses on a couple holes

[Bonneville85308]

It's been closed for almost 2 years now, and the last time I drove by a few months ago, was a field of weeds and dead grass waiting to be turned into houses or whatever.

[MillerLowLife]

Didn’t necessarily want to start it’s own thread and maybe this active one could get my info I need.

Im looking at moving to the Queen Creek/Gilbert/Chandler area this year and was wondering about men’s leagues. Anyone know of good active and competitive fun leagues in this area? Looking for a home track if you will.