2020 Phoenix Area Course Conditions

[AzSuperHack76]

Woof.

[OspreyCI]

???????

[Kuhndogg8]

 

There was an event going on at my club yesterday afternoon, so decided to go off the grid a bit and took a trip out to Tonto Verde. First time out there and I really enjoyed it. Conditions were outstanding. Barely a single ball mark on any green out there. Greens were rolling VERY fast, but held balls fine. I played the Peaks with a couple other singles at 2:30 and finished up by 6, so great pace and time to spare. The Peaks course was fairly straightforward, though a little tight here and there. Teeboxes and greens were fantastic, and the 1 bunker I found was great. For $75 in the afternoon, definitely well worth the trip out there. Some of the Par 4's did begin to feel a little redundant - straight out with a wash in the middle, but there's some ways to take some different angles. The short par 4's were very good, and I liked the mix of par 3's. Compared to $140 in the afternoon for McDowell Mountain that I saw yesterday, I'd go out there anytime.

[Argonne69]

Gorgeous day. Today's round was at The Foothills. Another course that could use a lot of TLC. The layout was fine, with some elevation change and good mounding. It could use a little more water, but the water they did have came into play. Bunkering was very good, especially around the greens. Quite deep in spots. On many holes the fairway bunkers were barely visible. More penal, but I like the FBs to frame the holes. The par 3s were meh, but the 5s were reachable with two good shots. Green complexes were fairly benign.

Conditions were mediocre. Fairways were playable for the most part, but had too many bare spots. Bunkers had some sand in them, but could have used another half inch, and fewer rocks. Greens were thin, and bare in many places. Looked pretty beat up. They rolled 8 to 9. I'd rate it a 3.5.

[vallygolf]

@Argonne69 I have enjoyed your write ups on these courses. It reminds me how much "average consumer" golf we have here in the valley of the sun. It also reminds me how much I have forgotten about golf I have played, but you hit a nostalgic nerve with the Foothills. In 1990 Foothills was my first experience with desert golf. I was a high school punk kid working at a golf course in the mountains of AZ and played foothills on a reciprocal courtesy round. Totally had forgotten it existed until your post today.

[Argonne69]

Desert Springs today on another fantastic day. I think it's one of the better looking courses in the Sun City area. The par 3s and short 4s are snoozers, though. Can anyone design a decent set of par 3s? The short 4s have no danger off the tee. Pffft.

Conditions had me steaming. Fairways were lush. So lush that we were getting practically no roll. Oh, and they had just been cut. Can't imagine what they played like before the mowers came through. Bunkers were decent. The real complaint was that the front 9 greens had been punched and sanded. $90+ to putt through beach sand. The back nine wasn't a lot better. The punches had healed, but there was a heavy coating of sand. No idea why the greens are they way they are in the peak season, or why they're charging regular peak rates. I'll give it a 4.

[AzSuperHack76]

The 500 Club was in good shape this morning. 3.5 hour pace teeing off at 9. $66 (extra 10 to ride)walking rate, 15% off for military, vets, and first responders makes it a good enough value.
@Argonne69 have you hade a chance to play here yet?

I really enjoy the Sun City Grand courses, but not during the winter, way overpriced in my opinion, especially since you can play for $20 all summer long.

[Argonne69]

Yeah, I played the 500 Club a few years back. I thought it was a decent value.

 

[Argonne69]

Sun City Willowcreek today. Another playable, but ho hum Sun City course. A few fun holes, but otherwise it was straightforward. I did enjoy the 3:30 pace.

Conditions were very good. Fairways were firm, and I was getting a ton of rollout, unlike DS yesterday. Greens were also very firm, and rolling at 10+. Tons of poorly fixed ballmarks, though. Gotta have a class on how to fix a ballmark. I'd rate it a 3.5. Definitely looking forward to playing a proper course tomorrow.

[Argonne69]

A very enjoyable round this morning with my host @az2au at Desert Forest GC. This is a heck of a course. With a two club wind blowing, and tricky green complexes, it ate my lunch. Breakfast, too. Playing pushover Sun City courses does not prepare you for this test, especially at 6700+ yds. All around great design with an excellent mix of holes.
Conditions were top notch. The fairways weren't overseeded, but were in great shape. Greens were unblemished, and rolling 11 to 12. Bunkers were deep, and filled with pure sand. Couldn't ask for more.
Highlight of the round was @az2au putting his approach on #18 on the roof of the clubhouse. Downwind, and 190+ yds out he hits a towering 8 iron that flew the green. One huge hop on the cart path and it's out of the ballpark. Lol. Did I say two club wind? Maybe it was three at that point. I'd rate the course a 7.5.
[img]https://dl.dropbox.com/s/cnq5qsgk5fdq6a8/20200221_111157.jpg[/img]More pics: Desert Forest

[az2au]

He means Desert Forest :). We had a great time as always. Oh and that 8 iron really just took off. Legit carried that 210. That a 165-170 club for me most times.

[Argonne69]

D*mn autocorrect. I caught it just after I hit the Post Comment button. Grrr.

[toypor]

Thanks for the review and great photos. DF certainly looks absolutely pure. I hear they have an upcoming assessment to replace the clubhouse roof : )

[MackDaddy480]

In my personal opinion, Desert Forest is the best course in the state. Hosting the AZ Amateur there this year.

[az2au]

Have to get you out again soon. Honestly the last round I had played out there before today was with Blake, Allen and you. (edit to fix the "helpful" autocorrect of misspelling Allen's name)

[AzSuperHack76]

Agree AJ. I really enjoyed the time Brian hosted myself and a few others. Even though my game was rough that day the overwhelming feeling was how special Desert Forest was. Amazing course.

[T_BoneAZ]

Sounds like you guys had some tough conditions. Just from touring Desert Forest without actually playing, the par 3’s and par 5’s really jumped out at me. Loved them, along with the green complexes. I actually walked out on a couple of the greens.

if any of you get back to the Augusta area try and have your pro hook you up at Palmetto Golf Club in Aiken, SC. It’s a stones throw from Augusta. Second oldest course in the US. Same feel as Desert Forest in some ways. Alister McKenzie did a great job with this place. Green complexes so similar to Augusta National that Hogan made it his regular stop to practice leading into the Masters. It’s not long, but beautifully routed. There isn’t a tee box more than twenty yards from the previous green. The false fronts are just wonderfully diabolical. Hogan listed two of its par 4’s as part of his favorite 18 holes anywhere and Bobby Jones listed #7 I believe as the best Medal Play par 3 in the world.

PALMETTO GOLF CLUB - 803.649.2951https://www.metrogolfmag.com/Articles/Article-Detail/ArticleId/4708/Palmetto-Golf-Club-A-true-treasure-steeped-in-golf-history

 

[Argonne69]

Weather aside, it was a rather unpleasant experience at The Golf Club at Johnson Ranch today. On the positive side, the front "Mountain" nine does have a number of fun holes with elevated tees. Again, I'm a sucker for elevated tees.

The laundry list of negatives starts with the hour plus drive to the course. The numerous speeding traps on Hunt make it quite enjoyable. For the umpteenth time I argued with the pro shop about their no walking policy. Apparently us walkers slow everything down. More on that later. My group teed off 12 minutes late. We made the turn in 2:20. At the 12th tee we were at the 3 hour mark. Seeing that we were on a 5 hour pace at least, I bid farewell to my playing partners, and drove the remaining holes back to the clubhouse. On the 15th tee I met the first slow group, as the fairway and green were both clear. On the 16th tee I ran into the ranger sitting there watching a group tee off. He asked me how it was going and I explained why I was calling it a day. He said the group on the tee was two holes behind. I asked him why he hadn't moved them back into position, but after he hesitated, I told him not to bother answering the question. I drove to the 17th, and quickly played the last two holes, finishing at the four hour mark after skipping five holes. On a positive note the young guy in the pro shop didn't blink when I asked for a five hole discount. In fact he apologized and gave me credit for nine holes.

I'm not going to lose sleep over not playing the majority of the back nine. Uninspiring golf. Conditions were so so. Fairways were playable, but off the fairway was a mess consisting of dirt, various clumps of green grass, and dormant Bermuda. Bunkers were hard pan, with standing water in many of them. The greens looked good, but were slow (7). Many of the greens had tiers, and seemed to be sloping away from the mountains. Downhill putts would blow by the hole, while uphill putts barely got half way to the hole. I can see why the greens are kept on the slow side due to the slope, but it's really a criticism of the poorly designed greens. I'll give it a 2.5.

If a course is going to mandate carts because they "speed up play", at a bare minimum they shouldn't be allowing 5 f-cking hour rounds.

[Argonne69]

Well, I was trying to avoid this, but I'm running out of courses, and tee sheets are rather full, so it was Ahwatukee today. On the plus side the pace of play didn't suck. I went out as a single, and finally caught the early groups on the 6th hole. Finished in 3:30. Of course the fact that there was a huge gap in the pairings speaks volumes about the course. Ho hum layout. Poor conditions. This one would probably be better if it was allowed to become a desert wash. The greens weren't horrible, and were rolling at a respectable 8, but the number of unfixed and poorly fixed ball marks were too numerous to count. Seriously, I know it's a dog track, but even dogs can have decent greens if players gave a sh-t. Bunkers were much better than Johnson Ranch. Fairways were spotty, and off the fairway was junk. Tee boxes were trash. Odd to see five or six maintenance workers out on the course. Trending up? Lol.

That said, I was a little under the weather, so once again I'm glad I didn't pay double the price to play a better course. $43 was still too much, but not crazy based on the other dog tracks. I'll give it a 2.5.

[Bonneville85308]

Since you mentioned running out of courses, I think I remember you playing/reviewing Sun City - Riverview, Sun City - Willowcreek, and Sun City - South, but have you played Sun City - North, Sun City - Lakes West, and Sun City CC yet? Totally forgettable snoozer courses, but cheap for this time of year, easy walks, and usually in very good condition. Just stay away from Wednesdays at all of the NW valley retirement community courses, that's usually "Men's Club" day.

[puttnforthe8]

Just throwing out some I have not noticed, so you may still have on the list - Cave Creek, both Tonto Verde courses, Red Mtn Ranch, Oakwood, Duke, Encanto, Coldwater?

 

plus the ones I know: Poston Butte, Mtn Brook (this week), Las Colinas

[mikedejong33]

I would be curious to see what Argonne thinks of the courses we sometimes play in the East Valley too: Red Mountain, Las Sendas, Longbow, Painted Mountain, Viewpoint. Superstition Springs I would not wish on my worst enemy... but could be fun for a review! Haha

[Argonne69]

I haven't played the North, Lakes West, or CC yet. As noted, they appear to me more or less the same as the other three.

I'll finish the trip this week with rounds at Wigwam Red, Las Colinas, and Mountain Brook.

 

[Argonne69]

I played Cave Creek the first week. I also hit Red Mountain Ranch, Encanto, and Coldwater. Isn't Oakwood private? I don't see a 'Book a Tee Time' link on their homepage.

I also skipped Ironwood. They only seemed to gave very early tee times available. 'Not going to sit in rush hour traffic for an hour to make an 8 am slot. Duke was on the list.

Gack! I forgot about Tonto Verde. I thought it was private. Verde River Golf and Social Club used to be Vista Verde, right?

 

[Argonne69]

I played Red Mountain on a cold, rainy day in late December. I was the only nut on the course. I thought it was a fun course, but conditions were poor due to the rain. I played Superstition Springs in early January. Quirky layout felt more like a Florida course. Fun day. Las Sendas was also in late December. Fun walk. I thought it was a decent layout, and didn't quite understand why it's so loathed.

I played Longbow a few years back. I like the layout, but didn't care for the constant buzz of aircraft flying just overhead from Falcon Field. I don't mind cool military aircraft, like the F-35s flying around Luke AFB, but the drone of small civilian aircraft I can do without.

 

[puttnforthe8]

 Verde River Golf and Social Club = Vista Verde = Tegavah

You are right about Oakwood - that is not normally the case. I wonder if they are doing it for the winter months only. We played it half a dozen times last year. And yes, Ironwood, while a good short course (same thing with Augusta Ranch) is not worth a drive.

Did you do Mountain Shadows?

Tonto Verde, while technically private, offer tee times. They have the best(only) putting course around. Courses are not bad.

[Argonne69]

No, didn't play Mountain Shadows. Short courses were a backup plan if the weather was crummy.

[Argonne69]

A very enjoyable morning at Wigwam today. The Red course was decent, but uninspiring. The fairways were almost too generous. Greens were as benign as one could make them. Good course for high cappers, but not much of a challenge. The mature trees do help frame many of the holes, but the pine needles were a royal pain on the greens. No complaints on the pace. I went out again as a single, an hour behind two groups of members. I caught them by the sixth hole, played through, and it was clear sailing to finish in two hours. My kind of golf.

Conditions were excellent. Fairways were lush. Greens looked great, and were rolling around 10. Looks like they were working on the bunkers. Some were great. Others had some standing water in them. I'd rate it a 4.

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

dont miss mountain shadows.

[Justmuckit]

How much longer are you in town, Argonne? I just moved here and would love to join you for a round if possible.