Monty says a new tour ball is needed to counter Bryson DeChambeau's crazy distance

[bscinstnct]

 

From what I see....

 

He *chose to play that ball, better for the conditions at the Open. All American players had the option to use that ball. Jack used it as well. Arnie won with it the next year.

 

That ball went farther than the American ball as well.

 

Mandating current players use a ball that goes 10 percent shorter, undoubtedly interacts differently in many situations, and relearn the game is very different. Not going to happen.

 

But I like the “Hogwash” ; ) Haven’t heard that since,

 

 

[smashdn]

According to The Eternal Summer the R&A required the use of the smaller ball in 1960. Nicklaus was not in The Open field in 1960.

 

Whether it was required or it was a strategic decision is immaterial to the point at hand, the ball was different and somehow he adapted and played well without a lifetime of acclimatization to it.

[Titleist99]

And my point is ......SO WHAT if he can drive it 330. It bothers no one but you. If the big drivers were winning all the tournaments and driving 330 was just down right unfair I would agree with you but that is just not the case. I could make the case that driving the golf ball 290-300 is the optimal driving distance for winning tournaments based on recent winners...Remember the object is to win tournaments not long driving.

On a side note Phil M. can hit bombs but he can't make a cut....

[bscinstnct]

 

its not that he “adapted” as much as he chose a ball he was clearly comfortable with and that provided a huge advantage which is described below. And here is Jacks take on the ball as well....

 

“Golfers had the option of playing the smaller golf ball in competitions under R&A rules, but it was not an option for golfers playing under the USGA rules. (In international competitions like the Ryder Cup, the smaller ball was allowed even if the event was held in the United States.) American golfers almost unanimously preferred the smaller ball when playing The Open Championship. Jack Nicklaus, in an interview at the Memorial Tournament this year, said, “The small ball, incidentally, back then was probably about the length of the golf ball we have today. We hit it about 50 yards further.”

 

“The small, “British Ball” was just what Palmer needed for the 1961 Open at Royal Birkdale. Facing gale force winds of 50 mph and torrential rain, Palmer used his 1-iron to great effect, hitting what we would call today in Tiger Woods’ parlance, “stingers.” The smaller ball off of Palmer’s attacking strikes sailed through the winds. At the 6th hole, Palmer’s shot carried a fairway bunker by some 30 yards that most of the field failed to reach. On seeing Palmer’s shot clear the bunker, one player simply said, “In that case, I give up.”

http://www.worldgolfhalloffame.org/news/arnold-palmer-british-ball/

 

 

[trilerian]

Do you implement the tour ball right away, or do you give the short hitters time to find another career? Do the women use the tour ball? How would indexes differ for Amateurs who play in big events vs smaller ones?

[Soloman1]

I can't believe I have type this out. OK, here ya go:

The professionals in the sport sport use different equipment than amateurs to limit the distance the ball will travel.

Sound familiar?

It's about limiting the distance the ball will travel for PROFESSIONALS. What does age have to do with it? It's about changing the ball for pros, not amateurs.

Did you read the title of thread? "Monty says a new TOUR BALL is..."

[15th Club]

"And my point is ......SO WHAT if he can drive it 330. It bothers no one but you."

Don't do that. Don't tell me, and the other readers here, that I am the only one "bothered" by the distance problem in golf.

Because the distance problem bothers Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player, Tom Watson, Ben Crenshaw, Tiger Woods, Ernie Els, Mike Davis, Fred Ridley, Geoff Ogilvy, Geoff Shackelford, Tom Doak, John Huggan, etc., etc., etc.

[lopey986]

Bryson has a T3 and a T8 in the 2 weeks back, i don't think we need to start changing the rules on tour because of that, lmao.

[ThinkingPlus]

While that may be what Monty wants it isn't what the RBs want. Furthermore there really aren't a significant number of amateur baseball players impacted by the bat rule. If you are good enough you graduate to wood never using Al again.

[smashdn]

"its not that he “adapted” as much as he chose a ball he was clearly comfortable with and that provided a huge advantage which is described below. And here is Jacks take on the ball as well...."

 

You reckon he spent a lifetime playing the smaller ball for his first opportunity in 1960?

[Titleist99]

Sorry you thought I meant that literally ......I just disagree that long drivers are making courses obsolete simply because the tour don't want or can't hold a tournament at a particular course for one reason or another. One things for sure....if the PGATOUR could make money they'd have a tournament on the moon,,,

[bscinstnct]

 

He chose that ball *over the USGA ball and here is why,

 

“The small, “British Ball” was just what Palmer needed for the 1961 Open at Royal Birkdale. Facing gale force winds of 50 mph and torrential rain, Palmer used his 1-iron to great effect, hitting what we would call today in Tiger Woods’ parlance, “stingers.” The smaller ball off of Palmer’s attacking strikes sailed through the winds. At the 6th hole, Palmer’s shot carried a fairway bunker by some 30 yards that most of the field failed to reach. On seeing Palmer’s shot clear the bunker, one player simply said, “In that case, I give up.”

[Titleist99]

How bout we have the Champion tour play the roll back crowds "Classic Course" that should be a ratings bonanza.......(sarcasm)

[mahonie]

So if he goes on to win the next 5 tournaments using only his driver and wedge? You do realise that’s what he’s aiming to do right? He’s worked out that bomb and gouge is the easiest way to win using modern equipment at PGA Tour ‘bomb and gouge’ courses.

DJ worked that out a couple of years ago but he’s forgot that by now. The smart young guys coming up through college have all worked it out. Guy from my club has got himself a scholarship in the States...guess what he’s learning...bomb and gouge. Bomb and gouge is the only game in town and that’s where the real problem lies.

The fight is not distance per se, it’s trying to save the skills that have always been part of, and made, the game until the Pro V1 came along.

To be honest, I hope that Bryson does win the next 5 tournaments...perhaps the hordes of sheep may start to see the bigger picture.

[smashdn]

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter why he chose it or if it chose him. Someone made the contention that we can't have a professional ball different than an amateur ball because there are kids spending a whole lifetime getting used to one type of ball and they will have to change if/when they go pro. Can't have that because it would be too difficult a change.

 

But yet you continue to give evidence of pros changing to balls with different sizes, that go different distances, that perform differently for perhaps one or two tournaments then changing back again. So is changing the ball a problem or no? You seem to be giving evidence that supports that it is not.

[mahonie]

Get the pros all to play a Pinnacle for a tournament and let’s see what happens...if Bryson was getting 2500 revs with his driver, I think his head would explode.

BTW, if you can’t afford to play Pro V1s and have to settle for ‘lesser’ balls such as the ubiquitous Pinnacle, is that not bifurcation already in practice?

[bnperrone]

I imagine it's already been covered here, but what's the point of rolling back the ball when longer players are still going to be way out in front of the rest? If it preserves the integrity of the course design for the absolute longest players, then it also means that average or shorter hitters will wind up not hitting it far enough to the play the way it was designed. I also can't understand why the point comes up in response to one guy going through a crazy regimen in an experiment. If the distance was all there was to it then all the long drive guys would be on tour, but they aren't.

[bscinstnct]

 

Arnie chose that ball because it went farther and penetrated the wind better for the 50 mph winds at the Open than week. It was perfect for his game, the conditions, and enhanced his style play. He didn’t adapt as much as he immediately saw he benefited from the ball and readily chose to use it.

 

He was free to us the USGA ball if he wanted to.

 

I don’t think this compares to giving the current pros no choice and forcing them to use a ball that is 30 yards shorter and worse for their game.

 

If it was the opposite and they had forced Arnie to use a ball that was shorter and less effective in the wind, and detracted from his preferred ball flight, and he won, then you would have a point.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[15th Club]

“....if the PGATOUR could make money they'd have a tournament on the moon...”

Which is why the PGA Tour, and the equipment manufacturers, should never, ever be allowed to dictate the Rules of Golf.

[Catty]

So I take that's a yes from you then and anything is possible. A little over 100 years ago flight was deemed impossible, Einstein said harnessing nuclear energy was unobtainable yet here we are, but you don't have be part of the discussion if it doesn't suit your agenda.

[mahonie]

It does make me scratch my head when the likes of Tim Finchem made more money from the PGA Tour than some of the most elite sportsman ever to grace the planet. Not bad for a ‘not-for-profit’ organisation. Who was it who said: ‘Greed is good?’

[ThinkingPlus]

No. Your conjecture is impossible for the reasons I specified. The laws of physics never precluded flight or harnessing nuclear energy. The assertions made by folks that you mention were due to limitations in engineering at that time.

[Catty]

So you are making assertions based on our engineering limits today or have we peaked in our knowledge of engineering? We can expect no further improvements in any technology. Good to know.

[ThinkingPlus]

No. What I am saying is hitting a golf ball that complies with current USGA performance limits cannot be hit with a club limited by the current USGA performance limits 400 yards with an 80 MPH swing under typical golf conditions (no hurricane force wind, no hitting on tarmac, etc...). There are no engineering improvements which will change this.

[OrangeGravy]

MLB, NFL, NBA, WNBA, Pro Tennis, all use a different ball than either lower levels of the sport or different surfaces in tennis' case. A baseball is different at every level you progress. Seems are different heights from little league on up. The baseball core varies from league to league and OEM to OEM. Some baseballs are harder, some softer. Each league organization typically requires the use of one brand/model or certain models within each brand. The football is a different size from pee wee up (NFL ball is bigger than high school/college). NBA basketball is real leather where every other ball is some sort of synthetic material and rib width and height vary from OEM to OEM. Some balls have a grippier surface than others. Basketballs get bigger as you get older.

[OrangeGravy]

There are literally hundreds to thousands of amateur baseball players that are impacted by the bat rule. They have stellar amateur careers and either don't get drafted because they fail in summer college leagues (wood bat) or get drafted and never adapt to wood in competition. It's a thing. There's a reason from the age of about 13 on, kids practice with and play in wooden bat events in hopes of getting used to it. It also teaches you how to hit the ball properly. AL lets you get away with poor mechanics a ton.

[OrangeGravy]

The powers that be have even dumbed down the AL bats to be a little closer to wood because the gap was so wide it didn't give scouts a true measure of a players power. That and college kids are way to strong for the old AL bats. Pitchers were starting to get a few too many shots back to the head/face.

[15th Club]

In all of those sporting organizations, they each settle on one design for a game ball.

In no case, do equipment manufacturers compete with each other’s R&D departments, trying to constantly design and produce new, improved balls that fly farther...

....with players not only being encouraged to use the best-performing balls, but being paid by the ball manufacturers to do so.

Tennis is a particularly interesting comparison, because in tennis, they select the ball specifications based on the venue. A Wimbledon ball; a US and Australian Open ball, a French Open ball, etc.

What a concept, eh? Where the balls are carefully controlled in the service of a particular kind and speed of game on historic venues.

 

[adl300]

these old timers trying to throw the game in reverse.... let the game grow. let the game be more accessible with these new clubs and balls.

[mahonie]

The rebound test for tennis balls was fixed in 1925 and hasn’t changed since. Just imagine if the USGA/R&A had that level of foresight.