50-54-58-62 Wedge

[Tim Schoch]

I usually do 45, 50.5, 53, 57.5 with my 1983 Eye2s (the 53 is an Eye2+ SW). Depending on the course, I might throw in a 61.

[Guest]

50 and 54 for full shots... never use 58 and or 62 for full shots... I do have some control over the 62 and or 64... But I rather play my lob wedges square. If i really have to do anything different then I do open up my 9 or a pw.

[Joelsim]

That particular shot is quite useful at times! ?

[Lobby]

My approach wedge is 48 deg. My sand is 54. My lob is 58.

I'm not a long hitter, so I find this works well for me.

 

Most amateurs carry clubs we can't hit, anyway.

[thigos]

I currently use 46 pw, 52,58,62.

The 62 was great when my local course had hard baked greenside bunkers, but the bunkers have since been redone and I am seldom pulling the 62.

I don't think the 58 and 62 are redundant. My 58 is high bounce and 62 is low bounce. I hit alot of full-ish 58 shots and the 62* really is only a specialty club for me

[gator022]

Enter @Dan Drake. I'm sure he'd love to chime in on this thread on higher lofted wedges.

[Dan Drake]

You called @gator022 and I'm happy to answer the call! As most of you know, there is almost nothing in this world that I love more than a conceptual dive into our collective golf bags trying to determine what will help us shoot the lowest scores possible.
I have personally added another wedge this past month. I now go 46 (set PW), 50 (set AW) 56 (52 bent weak), 60 (56 bent weak), and 64 (60 bent weak). The bending was done for 3 reasons: 1. I prefer less offset, 2. I prefer more bounce, & 3. I already had 2 of the 3 wedges needed on hand if I was okay bending them!
Here's the type of player that I think benefits most from having MOAR clubs above, let's just say 50 degrees: Someone who is (either due to being very long or very short relative to the courses they most often play) going to hit lots of partial wedge shots from inside a full swing yardage. Someone who (either for comfort, predictability, or trajectory reasons) prefers to play most of their shots with a square face. Someone who makes reasonably enough solid contact with wedges and partial shots to not be too afraid of a higher lofted wedge. Someone who encounters a LARGE variety of conditions and could use another bounce option for certain shots that they face repeatedly. Personally, I fit into all of these except one, so I'm perfectly happy taking out the 6i and adding in the 64. FWIW, my short game strokes gained have shown no loss in performance since adding the 64. Obviously I would like to see an improvement, but I understand the volatile nature of a wedge that is that high-lofted. Where I really want these wedges to allow me to shine is in my partial wedge matrix. When you factor in my driver and the courses I play, I'm going to have lots of partial wedge shots and I'd like to have a system that allows me to comfortably aim at the middle of the green when I have these types of shots, allowing for tons of med/short birdie putts. Now, I have yet to see this performance increase, but that really isn't the club's issue. Remember how I said that I am not in one of the above categories? Yeah, it's the solid contact/ball striking one. For as well as I am able to play at times, I am a pitiful striker of the ball, especially off the turf. So I continue to work on it. And for me, I love having the 3 different grind and bounce combos. The 56 is a full sole and is wonderful on partial shots. The 60 has a "C" grind and I hit most of my little pitches around the greens with this club. The 64 has almost like a "K" grind and it is my bunker club, short sided club, and mostly just my get-out-of-jail-with-a-bogey-and-move-on-to-the-next-hole club! I may honestly change the names of my clubs to Pw -> 10 iron, Aw -> 11 iron, 56 ->Gap wedge, 60 -> Pitching wedge, & 64 -> Sand wedge, because those are the real jobs they are asked to do. Also, I work at the best Club in the entire area (not so humble brag there!), yet play a great number of my rounds at the local muni with my Dad and good friends. The number of different turf conditions that I come across is massive and one grind just doesn't fit all, as much as I wish it did.
A 58 can't do what a 64 can, and neither can a 60. That said, you may or may not prefer to look down at a square club with a ton of loft vs. an open club with the same basic playing loft. You may have certain swing features that lend themselves to more success one way or another. Dustin Johnson loves his 64 because he can play certain shots now with his bowed wrist position and a square face that he just couldn't play with only a 60.
I will say this though, definitively: We really only need 13 clubs to cover our yardage gaps. We, almost certainly, aren't able to hit our mid/long irons well enough often enough to justify having them all in the bag. We could (and I am!) do without one of them, bend another to work out the gaps, and be just fine moving forward. Personally, I've seen no loss of performance between 170-210 having one less club in those gaps. Then, you take that 14th club you have just created space for and add in the one club that can honestly shave a full stroke or two from your game. Phil Mickelson did it and added a 2nd driver. Adam Scott did it and added a 2nd putter. DJ did it and added a 64. As much as we all wish we could just "make" our clubs do everything we need them to do, it just isn't in the cards for the VAST majority of us. Be smart with your bag setup and if you need to add a chipper in there to shoot lower scores and enjoy the game more, then you owe it to yourself to do it.

[Guest]

You are bang on. Off late I find myself in those awkward zones where end up going 3/4 swing with a 9 or an 8. Always been good with wedges and lets face it most non championship courses are short. I do challenge myself by going with out woods including driver and leaving a 3 iron in the bag... have a multitude of wedges would cover the gap beautifully

[bnperrone]

I could see this setup if I always played short courses. I did try the 5* gaps throughout the irons from 4-9 to remove one, but I never got comfortable with it. My goal was the opposite of this thread, because I was trying to stick a driving iron into the top for a guaranteed low bullet. Seemed great in theory but didn't work for me. Bottom of my set went 47, 51, 55, 60 and that's fine for me, but the 5* gaps were too much of an adjustment. I decided to learn to hit a low bullet without a club specifically for it, so now bottom of the set with new modern PW loft is 46, 50, 55, 60. I'm doing a wholesale equipment change this year for the first time in a long time, and I think I'll probably alternate a hybrid with a 3-iron if I really want that tee ball. We'll see.

No matter what, I could not justify removing a core club at the top when most of the par 3s I encounter are 180+ and subject to wind. Of course, I also do a high bounce sand wedge and a low bounce low wedge, and that was unexpectedly quite controversial on another post.

[Mookieb10]

Funny question, I’ve tried to simplify this year, going 46/52/58... I hit everything quite well but felt like I needed some more loft. I think i need a different grind or lower bounce. Now, I have a tournament this weekend. It’s our big member/member event. I’m playing the tourney from the white tees because my dad is a higher capper, couple that with the fact that the keepers get the course sooo dang fast, well, I’m taking out the hybrid and going to a 5 wedge setup. 46/50/54/60/65. Baddabing.

[Red4282]

that may work for you, but alot of guys can make either work just fine, and by that, its redundant.

as far as your second statement. Not sure why you need that shot, other than a trick shot for giggles.

[coops]

My PW is 46, then 50, 56, and a 64.

 

If i was starting a new bag or replacing the wedges I may prefer 52, 58, 64 to have nice even 6 degree gaps... but either way, for me less choice is easier and having a 64 means no need to crank the face open for almost anything - easy to use and aim in the bunker for the absolutely non-Seve short game talent like me.

[gator022]

@Dan Drake what are your yardages at the top of your bag? I saw you post it somewhere else. I agree with you totally on this because when I'm 170-210 yards out truly on or right near the green is a win.
Also, to those that say there is nothing you can't do with a 58 that you can with a 64. I'd argue it takes even more skill to make a 58 do what a 60 or 64 can do. Lots of face manipulation there. Say a 58 does anything at 64 can is almost like saying you can do anything with your 34* 7 iron that you can with your 42* 9 iron.

[Guest]

My yardages are approximately as follows:

1. Driver: 290 average / 983K 7.5 degree driver

2. 3 Wood: 260 average / 980F 13.5 degree

This is when I have spent sufficient time at the range at the start of a season. Though with age slowing down a bit. But yes leaves me with awkward yardage in and around the green. Have played plenty of 1 iron tournaments and can work irons as much as the next golfer. But now simply want to enjoy the limited rounds I get. Traditional golfer that loves his 3 and 4 irons but find i don't use them as much. So going with a variety of wedges would make things more interesting...

[jmkenn0]

I go 52-56-60-64, because my "stock" yardages with those clubs are 135-120-105-85. I then go D-3W-2H-5-PW. I'll take more options for full swings < 150 yards and around the green than the once a round I might need a 4 iron or 5 wood?

[Thayneil]

using a 64 in any wind is not easy

I prefer a 58 to a 60 and can open it up

I think good course management might help not to leave you in places where a 64 is needed!

[Thayneil]

how often would you need a shot like that on the course?

[driveandputtmachine]

I love these threads where people tell you why something doesn't work for them and they like something different so it shouldn't work for you either.

I play 62, 58, 54, 50, 46, 42, 37, 32. 27, 22. In my irons. I previously played 21, 24, 27, 31, 35 ,40 ,45 ,50 ,55 ,60.

Things I have noticed, my GIR and proximity has stayed the same in the distances that span the 21 to 27 area. They have both gotten slightly better in the 31-40 area. They have gotten better by 7% in GIR and 3 feet in proximity in the 45/46-50 area and the 54 - 62 area my GIR has climbed by 10% and my proximity has gotten better by over 5 feet. I am not going on tour any time soon, so I doubt I will see my self hitting 22 or 27 irons into par fours anytime soon, and even if I did have to hit those irons I am no worse in those distances than I was before. I am also making .65 more birdies per round now than I was before. My handicap has been trending down as well.

The biggest benefit for me has been from the 112 to 85 area. The 54-58-62* gapping has made the two stock shots I own and hit pretty well cover most everything and I am hitting the ball much closer in those areas. Saturday I used the 62 from outside of 30 yards and less than 80 yards 7 times. I got up and down 5 of them. Whether I could have done the same with a 60* is not up for debate, I have played a 60 for the last three years, and even before my wrist surgery when I played to a +1.8 I have never been as good in the 30-85 yard range. Because of the wrist surgery my ability to practice more than two shot types is dramatically reduced, so have more loft options here has helped.

Yes I know, don't hit it that close, well sometimes fairways run longer than you think from a tee shot, and sometimes your punch out puts you in that area and there isn't much you can do about it. That would also be a valid argument if my long game approach had suffered, which it hasn't. Having a hybrid I can draw and cut has made a ton of difference there, that and a SGI "5 iron" that I can do both with as well.

[cardoustie]

My gaps for 45-52-58-64 are 145-125-108-85. Simply I need a club under the 58* as I have a load of shots inside 100 yards when I play. Now I will use the 58 for certain shots of course … namely where I don't need Velcro like stopping power to a tight and protected pin behind a pond or trap

I will also mention like @DanDrake my 64 is an older 64.07 Vokey which is magic from deep traps. I'd say also that I chip with the 64 greenside 60% of the time and have recently mastered the little belly wedge from 2 feet into the rough from a dodgy cuppy lie

Plus, you haven't lived until you can hit a low growling 64* from 70 yards that hops and monkey chaws next to the jug, a submariner my buddies call it

Come to my course with a 56 and I will put you short-sided in spots where a smart player carries a 64. Not everybody is a Seve

[Dan Drake]

@gator022 My yardages are as follows:
D - 280+
Fw - 255
Hy - 230
DI - 210
5i - 190
7i - 175
8i - 160
9i - 145
Pw - 130
Aw - 115
56 - 100
60 - 85
64 - 70
Now, there are two important things to remember here: 1. These, other than driver, are basically my max numbers. So, the number that I'm hitting these clubs on the course is almost ALWAYS shorter than these and 2. In order to hit the most greens possible, I'm trying to "blanket" the green with as many of my shots as possible. As such, I use a very simplistic system (I prefer DECADE, but I'm not the quality of ball striker to use those numbers, yet....) where I take the back edge yardage of the green minus 5-7yds. Then I pull the club that is closest to that number and that makes the most sense based on trouble around the green and, to a much smaller degree that you might think, the flag.
"There is no flag"
[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/PUOCCWAL6AWT/image.png[/img]
For instance, if I have 135 flag, but 150 to the back edge, I start with 150 and subtract 7 yards for a normal sized green. So now I'm 143. Well, the pin is 135, so if there is no penalty hazard trouble short, I'm going to hit 9i and try (that's the tough bit, commitment not to the flag, but to the plan) to hit it to the back 3rd of the green. My good shots will almost never result in bogey or worse and my slight misses will result in a number of good looks at birdie. Add to that, my absolutely awful shots, GASP, still have a chance at par, maybe even an uphill putt at birdie. If there is a penalty hazard short, I will strongly consider hitting a less than full shot with my 8i in this scenario. FWIW, this exact scenario happened this past Saturday on a third shot into a par 5. And I roasted the best 9i I have hit in a long time just over the back of the green. I misjudged the wind, downhill lie, and the elevation change I believe! But, it was a simple chip shot with tons of green to work with, so I chipped it down to 2' and moved onto the next hole. And yes, there are some times where you will be slightly in between clubs, especially at longer distances. BUT, you have to be honest with yourself and your (in)ability to really control your distance with a long iron anyway. On a 190+yd par 3, if I have a makable 6' putt for par (basically my 50/50 make % range), then I'm happy. I'm much more comfortable leaning on a strength of mine (putting) than trying to ask a weakness of mine (ball striking) do something that it isn't often capable of. Sometimes the resulting 6' par putt is from a chip shot from a manageable area and sometimes it is from a longish lag putt. No matter, I'm simply trying to make 3.5 on a hole like this anyway. Par is a win, birdie is a gift, and bogey isn't the end of the world! Tap in bogies never hurt anyone, not even on tour and especially not on long, difficult par 3's. Double bogey, on the other hand, is to be avoided at all costs. If you aren't managing your misses, especially from this distance, you are costing yourself valuable strokes.
If you are a mediocre ball striker, blanket the green with better basic club and shot selections. If you are a good/better ball striker, get with @ScottFawcett and learn DECADE (I'm totally not affiliated, but I know it is the real deal) and take your game to the level you always felt like it should be.
As for the OP topic, I'm 100% advocating for managing your bag so that you have 1 club available for a specialty club that is hyper-specific to your game and needs. Driver is a specialty club and so it putter. We already make room for them, I'm just saying to take it one step further to really get the most out of you game!

[Red4282]

Where does it stop? Can a 68 degree do more things than a 64? At some point, you have all the stopping power needed, and for most players its 58/60. Most ams dont even make good enough contact In the first place with a 60 for it to be beneficial (distance control), much less a 64 degree.

[Red4282]

You are the exception tho, as a scratch. You can make the other setup work just fine. 12 cappers are not doing themselves any favors playing 64 degree wedges.

[Guest]

@driveandputtmachine so very true.... my first time on this forum. love the discussion. get honest feedback... unlike a store...

Thanks for the discussion.

[driveandputtmachine]

I beg to differ, just because I am a scratch doesn't mean I am a great iron player. I am scoring better with my current setup with 50, 54, 58, 62 than I was with 50, 54, 60 or 50, 55, 50. I know plenty of 12 handicaps who hit their irons like a 3 or 4, and drive and putt like 20's. Now two players are alike, and while it is good to seek some advice, know that what works for anyone else may not work for you, even someone with the same handicap because everyone is so different.

[Red4282]

Even scratch golfers use their highest lofted wedge way too much. Go watch the short game video Matt Blois with TXG did and how much he improved his dispersion going from using a 60 to a 56 on pitch shots.

Im not alone on this, just about any good short game coach would say the same. They are better using something like a 56 degree or lower for 90% of the Shots around the green. The lower the loft, the more controlled the contact is, the more consistent launch and trajectory is, which increases predictability and dispersion. Anything higher than should considered SPECIALTY club. Huge flops, up over something, or some bunker shots is about you should ever need it for. Everything else should be a 56 or lower. So much more control. Therefore carrying a 60/64 or 58/62, is redundant. You dont need two clubs that do the same thing.

[driveandputtmachine]

Again, Matt whoever is not me. His game is different than mine. My 62 is used for 40-90 yard shots. My proximity and GIR% is higher in that range since switching from a 55-60 to 54/58/62. So your short game coach is wrong when it comes to ME. He may be right for some people, or even the majority of people, but as all my stats have IMPROVED since switching, they would be wrong for me. My game has gotten better from 40 to 120 yards since switching.

Sure maybe if I practiced more (I had wrist surgery a few months back, so that's not happening) I could be as good with my old setup as I am with my new. However before my wrist injury and trying to play through it I was a +1.8 and my game from 40-120 is better now than it was then, and I practiced at least once a week back then. I am also NOT WORSE with one less club and bigger gaping at the top end of my bag, so no matter if a Harmon, Leadbetter or any other coach made a blanket statement, THEY ARE WRONG FOR ME. Those two clubs are not redundant for the way I play. I have two very repeatable swings, stock and a 3/4 cut/knockdown.

You keep talking about pitching, which I have never mentioned, sure I guess inside of 85 is a pitch shot with my 62* since it is not a full "stock" shot of some kind, but I have no problem hitting more close to the hole from 40-120 and my GIR has gone up since switching.

[Dan Drake]

@driveandputtmachine
I guess I should have inferred from your username, but we are clearly very similar golfers! I also am close to scratch, but on the strength of my length, putter, and short game (at times). My ability to actually strike a golf ball cleanly and in the appropriate direction with a somewhat predictable curvature is, by a vast margin, the weakest part of my game! As an example, my father is about an 8 and he hasn't beaten me (gross score) twice in a row in a very long time. And yet from 130yds out, it's no contest. His average shots will be closer than my average shots and his awful shots will also be closer. His greatest strength as a golfer, short to mid iron play, happens to be my greatest weakness! I almost never win a greenie in our Saturday game!

[driveandputtmachine]

Very eerily similar games. My strength is my length, followed by my putting, then my chipping. Where I was lacking was GIR and proximity to the hole with my 4iron to my last wedge. I have found it happening more often than not that there have been times that a driver or 3 wood or even hybrid off the tee has gotten me to an area in the shorter side of my bag where I didn't feel I was getting the ball close enough for my liking. So I did a deep dive on my iron game through statistics. What I saw was with my long irons my GIR was OK, and I wasn't expecting to hit it to 10 feet of the hole. With the longest irons I wanted to hit the green and two putt, but when I got into scoring distance I needed to be able to hit the ball closer. So I took based on my numbers and spread out my lofts and yardage gaps at the top end of my bag, and closed them up at the bottom end. My goal is to be able to play three shots with all my irons. I am trying to not hit any shot 100%. My full is roughly 90% and work a couple of things from there. Full shot, Cut 3/4 shot, and eventually a trap draw with my scoring clubs. Then a draw with my longer clubs. I have some of them worked out already, but with my limited ability to practice currently due to wrist surgery, it is still a work in progress. Here are my carry yardages with shot types right now.

I need some more time on the course when it is not packed(good luck with that) on some flat shots to gather some more yardages as my club's range balls are limited flight, Still working on the trap draw with the short irons, and not ready to put it into play yet to even gather data, my 7 iron is a tweener club and I am not sure whether a "trap draw" in my mind or a draw is the shot that can be played. I have a 4 iron and 5 wood I would like to test as well, but my wrist has not been cleared for practice more than 1 hour once a week, so I spend that time grooving my standard shots, and working on getting ball position and alignment for the trap draw.

 

[Red4282]

Then you are a unicorn, congrats.

[Red4282]

Here is the video i was referencing.https://youtu.be/iRuTahBkykc