I get playing as it lies, but really?

[wobgon]

4 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Thx, Dave. I was quite lost with the word 'swail', could not find any translation for it.

 

[James the Hogan Fan]

7 hours ago, Newby said:

Was that supposed to be a bunker?

 

Yes. We've had 90mm of rain since the beginning of the month.

 

6 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

If there is more than half a ball above that canyon you should be well off. At least a referee would not have granted you a free drop.

 

I cannot imagine an event which takes itself seriously enough to recruit a referee would allow such condition to exist without either declaring the bunker ground under repair or first hiring someone in the morning to go out and rake. Glad I wasn't in one of the deeper trenches. 

[antip]

35 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

Yes. We've had 90mm of rain since the beginning of the month.

 

 

I cannot imagine an event which takes itself seriously enough to recruit a referee would allow such condition to exist without either declaring the bunker ground under repair or first hiring someone in the morning to go out and rake. Glad I wasn't in one of the deeper trenches. 

A common approach under hard cards and local rules here is "washaways in bunkers and at the margins of bunkers" is included as GUR. Occasionally it is limited to lie of ball only.

[Colin L]

5 hours ago, 4x4GGG said:

We can ask about a Flying spaghetti monster hovering over a pond and tossing my wet ball back on the fairway, too I guess. If I catch a sprinkler head in the fairway that puts me in a creek on the best tee shot of my life then the outcome is what it is. A ball that comes to rest in the intended line of play deserves to be a shot as intended. If I rip a 300 yard drive down a fairway that has water at 280 yards then I'm at fault. If I hit to a 5x5 yard patch of grass that leaves me a shot between 2 trees leaving me a 180 yard shot at a par five in 2 but my ball goes 18 inches into a gopher hole and my friend, who's competing for an Extra Value Meal from McDonalds tells me "Play it as it lies, Bro!" then I'm allowed to protest raking hazards. 

I believe in the rules of golf and constantly fight to preserve them, but also think it's OK to play like you're a pro playing a practice round as long as there are no additional consequences (Handicap, course destruction, equipment destruction, bodily harm.. etc). If I had hot that shot as it was I would have taken up a full bear skin rug with it. 

As a believer in the rules of golf you'll have come across  Rule 19,  I expect?

[Newby]

2 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

Yes. We've had 90mm of rain since the beginning of the month.

 

 

I cannot imagine an event which takes itself seriously enough to recruit a referee would allow such condition to exist without either declaring the bunker ground under repair or first hiring someone in the morning to go out and rake. Glad I wasn't in one of the deeper trenches. 

1) Under current COVID rules here, we are permitted Preferred Lies (6") in all bunkers

 

2) My course floods to about 6' a couple of times a year. When the river goes down, such runnels are given permanent local rule status. 

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, antip said:

A common approach under hard cards and local rules here is "washaways in bunkers and at the margins of bunkers" is included as GUR. Occasionally it is limited to lie of ball only.

 

In our national HC washaways are not automatically GUR but relief has to be asked from a referee specifically. Naturally those washaways are smoothened before the players reach them as well as possible but that is a question of manpower which is always a scarce reserve. If relief is granted it applies also to stance. The rule of thumb is when a ball is more than half of the diameter below the edge relief is granted but that is just a guideline, other factors may have an effect as well.

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

I cannot imagine an event which takes itself seriously enough to recruit a referee would allow such condition to exist without either declaring the bunker ground under repair or first hiring someone in the morning to go out and rake. Glad I wasn't in one of the deeper trenches. 

 

Sometimes the greenkeeping staff is busy doing more critical things early in the morning so they do not have enough time nor manpower to deal with the bunkers. Or the conditions prevent them using machinery, like last weekend when us referees went to rake the bunkers as there was nobody else to do it. It may happen that an occasional bunker remains unraked due to other duties.

 

And I believe the event was serious enough, the final of the national Tour.

[davep043]

13 hours ago, 4x4GGG said:

I was really curious what the replies would be hoping that some one would ask about the course conditions. With the drain pipe right there and the 14 inches of rain last month and 3 so far this month, that lump was quite artificial. If you stepped on the lump part the low part would come up. Basically floating turf.

I've seen these turf "blisters" at my home club.  In my opinion, its reasonable to expect them to be marked as GUR for a competition.  If that small depression was just a depression in the fairway, my original answer would stand, but when its a temporary condition like a turf blister, I'd have probably taken (free) relief in a casual round.  In a competition, I might have played two balls and asked for a ruling afterward.

[HatsForBats]

On 9/16/2020 at 6:35 PM, 4x4GGG said:

I was really curious what the replies would be hoping that some one would ask about the course conditions. With the drain pipe right there and the 14 inches of rain last month and 3 so far this month, that lump was quite artificial. If you stepped on the lump part the low part would come up. Basically floating turf. Any pure strike could have ripped up a foot of sod from the low point. There's low and high cut grass from where the mower is moving the sod as the turf waves under the weight of the mower. While the lie was quite odd to hit a 200+ yard shot out of, I've hit from way worse. In a casual round I'd much rather roll a ball 6 inches over than rip a bath mat sized hole in the fairway. I preempted this post in another thread, and guessed the replies appropriately. 

I've already stated my true feelings about improved lies. For some reason it's OK to lift clean and place in a bunker that hasn't been raked (covid rules) but hit a drive right to where you want in the fairway and have to play out of a divot? None of that makes sense to me. No more bunker rakes and allow rolling from defects in the fairway. But that's my $.02. 

 

 

Sure, by purposely leaving out information you elicited the response you wanted. Well done, I guess. I'm not sure you accomplished anything there but you seem pretty pleased about it.

 

With it perhaps fully described now it would depend on the competition at hand on how I would proceed. If it was my friendly, weekly group competition at my home course I might ask my playing partners how they feel I should proceed or I might just hit it anyways. If it was the club championship I would ask for a ruling from the club pro or play 2 balls if the pro was not readily available to make a quick ruling. I would most certainly not leave it up to my playing partners in the club championship.

 

Then again the organizers may already have a provision in place if the rains created enough abnormal conditions...

 

E-3 Preferred Lies

Purpose. When occasional local abnormal conditions might interfere with fair play, the affected parts of the course can be defined as ground under repair. But adverse conditions such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can sometimes damage the course or prevent use of heavy mowing equipment.

 

When such conditions are widespread on the course, the Committee can choose to adopt a Local Rule for “preferred lies” (also known as “winter rules”) to allow fair play or help protect the fairway. Such a Local Rule should be withdrawn as soon as conditions allow.

 

The use of this Local Rule outside the fairway in the general area is not recommended as it may result in a player receiving free relief from areas where a ball might otherwise be unplayable (such as in areas of bushes or trees).

 

It is not authorised to implement this Local Rule once play has begun for a stroke-play round. Doing so would allow players who have more holes to play the advantage of using it for a longer period of time. The Local Rule could be implemented once a match has begun between the play of two holes as opponents have an equal benefit.

 

For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes (including the size of the relief area and if it may only be used in the fairway), consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Model Local Rule E-3

“When a player’s ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area such as ‘on the fairway of the 6th hole’], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

• Reference Point: Spot of the original ball.

• Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: [Specify size of relief area, such as one club-length, one scorecard length or 6 inches] from the reference point, but with these limits:

• Limits on Location of Relief Area:

  • Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point, and

  • Must be in the general area.

In proceeding under this Local Rule, the player must choose a spot to place the ball and use the procedures for replacing a ball under Rules 14.2b(2) and 14.2e.

 

On 9/16/2020 at 7:53 PM, 4x4GGG said:

We can ask about a Flying spaghetti monster hovering over a pond and tossing my wet ball back on the fairway, too I guess. If I catch a sprinkler head in the fairway that puts me in a creek on the best tee shot of my life then the outcome is what it is. A ball that comes to rest in the intended line of play deserves to be a shot as intended. If I rip a 300 yard drive down a fairway that has water at 280 yards then I'm at fault. If I hit to a 5x5 yard patch of grass that leaves me a shot between 2 trees leaving me a 180 yard shot at a par five in 2 but my ball goes 18 inches into a gopher hole and my friend, who's competing for an Extra Value Meal from McDonalds tells me "Play it as it lies, Bro!" then I'm allowed to protest raking hazards. 

I believe in the rules of golf and constantly fight to preserve them, but also think it's OK to play like you're a pro playing a practice round as long as there are no additional consequences (Handicap, course destruction, equipment destruction, bodily harm.. etc). If I had hot that shot as it was I would have taken up a full bear skin rug with it. 

 

Why aren't you informing your bro that you are entitled to free relief from animal holes? Perhaps this is a case where the gopher hole was in a penalty area or out of bounds and you are again purposely leaving that information out? Sneaky.

 

          16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)

              This Rule covers free relief that is allowed from interference by animal holes, ground under repair, immovable obstructions or temporary water:

 

 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

1 hour ago, HatsForBats said:

 

Sure, by purposely leaving out information you elicited the response you wanted. Well done, I guess. I'm not sure you accomplished anything there but you seem pretty pleased about it.

 

With it perhaps fully described now it would depend on the competition at hand on how I would proceed. If it was my friendly, weekly group competition at my home course I might ask my playing partners how they feel I should proceed or I might just hit it anyways. If it was the club championship I would ask for a ruling from the club pro or play 2 balls if the pro was not readily available to make a quick ruling. I would most certainly not leave it up to my playing partners in the club championship.

 

Then again the organizers may already have a provision in place if the rains created enough abnormal conditions...

 

E-3 Preferred Lies

Purpose. When occasional local abnormal conditions might interfere with fair play, the affected parts of the course can be defined as ground under repair. But adverse conditions such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can sometimes damage the course or prevent use of heavy mowing equipment.

 

When such conditions are widespread on the course, the Committee can choose to adopt a Local Rule for “preferred lies” (also known as “winter rules”) to allow fair play or help protect the fairway. Such a Local Rule should be withdrawn as soon as conditions allow.

 

The use of this Local Rule outside the fairway in the general area is not recommended as it may result in a player receiving free relief from areas where a ball might otherwise be unplayable (such as in areas of bushes or trees).

 

It is not authorised to implement this Local Rule once play has begun for a stroke-play round. Doing so would allow players who have more holes to play the advantage of using it for a longer period of time. The Local Rule could be implemented once a match has begun between the play of two holes as opponents have an equal benefit.

 

For guidance on when and how this Local Rule may be used in order for scores to be submitted for handicapping purposes (including the size of the relief area and if it may only be used in the fairway), consult the rules or recommendations contained within the Handicap System operating in the local jurisdiction.

Model Local Rule E-3

“When a player’s ball lies in a part of the general area cut to fairway height or less [or identify a specific area such as ‘on the fairway of the 6th hole’], the player may take free relief once by placing the original ball or another ball in and playing it from this relief area:

• Reference Point: Spot of the original ball.

• Size of Relief Area Measured from Reference Point: [Specify size of relief area, such as one club-length, one scorecard length or 6 inches] from the reference point, but with these limits:

• Limits on Location of Relief Area:

  • Must not be nearer the hole than the reference point, and

  • Must be in the general area.

In proceeding under this Local Rule, the player must choose a spot to place the ball and use the procedures for replacing a ball under Rules 14.2b(2) and 14.2e.

 

 

Why aren't you informing your bro that you are entitled to free relief from animal holes? Perhaps this is a case where the gopher hole was in a penalty area or out of bounds and you are again purposely leaving that information out? Sneaky.

 

          16.1 Abnormal Course Conditions (Including Immovable Obstructions)

              This Rule covers free relief that is allowed from interference by animal holes, ground under repair, immovable obstructions or temporary water:

 

 

@4x4GGG leaving the detail out about the floating turf was an omission of key detail.

At one course I play, typically in the spring, there is a large area (~15ft x 15ft) of floating turf in the middle of the fairway.  Walking on it is akin to walking on a waterbed.  It's not marked by the course (I don't think they own  a can of white paint ? ) and me and my buddies won't play from it.  Given the absence of divots I'd guess no one plays from it.

[2bGood]

I am always a bit befuddled about these threads. If it is casual play - do what you like but don't come ask a rules questions. If it is competition - play two balls and ask for a ruling if you really feel you deserve free relief.

 

For me I have a very opposite view point than the OP. If I catch a crazy lie in casual play - I want to hit it. I want to see if I can pull off the shot or if I can manage to scramble for a par or better. It is fun little challenge. I can't say I remember too many shots I have hit from a perfect lie in the fairway, but I remember the time I was in divot so deep the ball was barely poking above the surface and managed to make birdie, just like I remember when my buddy fell in a lake trying shot from a crazy lie. 

 

If it is casual round, what is the big deal about taking on a tough shot. So what if it costs you a stroke?

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by 2bGood

[jvincent]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

I am always a bit befuddled about these threads. If it is casual play - do what you like but don't come ask a rules questions. If it is competition play two balls and ask for a ruling if you really feel you deserve free relief.

 

For me I have a very opposite view point than the OP. If I catch a crazy lie in casual play - I want to hit it. I want to see if I can pull off the shot or if I can manage to scramble for a par or better. It is fun little challenge. I can't say I remember too many shots I have hit from a perfect lie in the fairway, but I remember the time I was in divot so deep the ball was barely poking above the surface and managed to make birdie, just like I remember when my buddy fell in a lake trying shot from crazy lie. 

 

If it is casual round, what the big deal about taking on tough shot. So what if it costs you a stroke?

 

 

This.  ^^^^^

 

Casual rounds are the best time to practice the crazy stuff. Pulling it off in a match because you've hit the shot before can be a morale killer to the other team.

[Hawkeye77]

On 9/16/2020 at 8:44 PM, 4x4GGG said:

 

 

You misspelled "Sleeping kitten". 

 

You misspelled "swale", lol.

 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[2bGood]

On 9/16/2020 at 6:06 PM, 4x4GGG said:

Have you ever walked on sheets of sod that moves due to water drainage? Hence the reason for a water drain in the middle of a fairway. Trying to get a 17* hybrid up over that water balloon in front of me could have meant a decent tear in the fairway. Asking rules questions from people who think hitting into a bunker should come with a back rub and a glass of champagne... I'll be alright, I knew the outcome long before most people woke up this morning. 

Thing is, why are you hitting the hybrid? You catch a bad lie you adjust the shot to what is needed - not really a big deal.

 

Of course I also don't think it is a big deal you decided to pick out a better lie for yourself. I play with lots of casual golfers and if rolling the ball to a better lie is what they enjoy, then great - have fun and enjoy the day. I am really not fussed about how other people decided to enjoy the game unless they are competing. 

 

I am not sure what you are referring to with the bunker issue - but all of the clubs I am aware of have put in place special local bunker rules that were permissible under their ruling bodies. We may not like the rules we encounter but they are what they are. 

 

 

 

Edited September 21, 2020 by 2bGood

[rogolf]

31 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

 all of the clubs I am aware of have put in place special local bunker rules that were permissible under their ruling bodies. We may not like the rules we encounter but they are what they are.

 

And if we are competing, ie, comparing scores to each other, then we should be playing by the same Rules.

Gosh, an old Fortran "if....then....."

[hybrid25]

My ball ended up at the front of the deepest unrepaired divot I had ever seen. The only chance I had in the middle of the fairway, in this huge hole, was to advance at 30 yards. In my opinion, there needs to be something done to the rules that states this is a man-made, unnatural occurrence allowing a golfer to lift and drop no closer to the hole. Of course, under the discretion of other players. To think that this couldn't be accomplished because players would not know what an unrepaired divot looks like or wouldn't be honest somehow, well then the whole game of golf is shot because a person can cheat anytime they want. You can't stop cheaters. What is equally difficult to do is talking logic with those who think they are golf purists and you can change rules for anything because it would ruin the game (closed minded). 

[2bGood]

2 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

My ball ended up at the front of the deepest unrepaired divot I had ever seen. The only chance I had in the middle of the fairway, in this huge hole, was to advance at 30 yards. In my opinion, there needs to be something done to the rules that states this is a man-made, unnatural occurrence allowing a golfer to lift and drop no closer to the hole. Of course, under the discretion of other players. To think that this couldn't be accomplished because players would not know what an unrepaired divot looks like or wouldn't be honest somehow, well then the whole game of golf is shot because a person can cheat anytime they want. You can't stop cheaters. What is equally difficult to do is talking logic with those who think they are golf purists and you can change rules for anything because it would ruin the game (closed minded). 

 

This one again.?

 

Two issues - you can't have your fellow competitors give rulings on what is a divot in stroke play. First, how can you assure  the ruling on what is a divot is, is consistent from group to group and fair to the entire field? Second, there is going to be grey area in how any individual is going to define an 'unrepiared' divot. Right away I assume you mean only a fresh divot? So even if sand and seed mixture has been added, but it rained and it is still a depression no relief- right?  Or do you mean a divot that has grass gown back in and indiscernible from the fairway?  If so, lots of areas can potentially be defined as a divot. Or do you just mean an 'irregular' area? Easy enough to define I guess and essentially means you can play lift and place.

 

I suppose you could make this work in match play - kind of like conceding putts (but I can still see some challenges with that).

 

To be honest I don't think this debate matters at all. Most golfer play preferred lies and don't care about the Rules of Golf at all. Then those that do play by the rules, play in events and keep a valid handicap seem to not be too fussed about divots. 

 

Edited September 22, 2020 by 2bGood

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, hybrid25 said:

My ball ended up at the front of the deepest unrepaired divot I had ever seen. The only chance I had in the middle of the fairway, in this huge hole, was to advance at 30 yards. In my opinion, there needs to be something done to the rules that states this is a man-made, unnatural occurrence allowing a golfer to lift and drop no closer to the hole. Of course, under the discretion of other players. To think that this couldn't be accomplished because players would not know what an unrepaired divot looks like or wouldn't be honest somehow, well then the whole game of golf is shot because a person can cheat anytime they want. You can't stop cheaters. What is equally difficult to do is talking logic with those who think they are golf purists and you can change rules for anything because it would ruin the game (closed minded). 

Good luck with pursuing that.

The Rules of golf try their hardest to get away from the "discretion of other players".  "Other players" are expected to play by the Rules and protect all the other players in the field (everyone else playing in the competition) by ensuring that the Rules are followed by everyone.

If you are only competing with the players in your own group, and that is the entire "field", then do what you wish.  But, as was said above, those that choose to move balls out of bad lies and then complain that the Rules do not allow them to do so, are only wanting the Rules changed to justify what they are doing - making them feel "right" in their behaviour (imo).

[sui generis]

2 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

My ball ended up at the front of the deepest unrepaired divot I had ever seen. The only chance I had in the middle of the fairway, in this huge hole, was to advance at 30 yards. In my opinion, there needs to be something done to the rules that states this is a man-made, unnatural occurrence allowing a golfer to lift and drop no closer to the hole. Of course, under the discretion of other players. To think that this couldn't be accomplished because players would not know what an unrepaired divot looks like or wouldn't be honest somehow, well then the whole game of golf is shot because a person can cheat anytime they want. You can't stop cheaters. What is equally difficult to do is talking logic with those who think they are golf purists and you can change rules for anything because it would ruin the game (closed minded). 

 

Alright, noodle it out of that lie which you've not bothered to figure out how to play from. However, the next time you double cross one into the woods and it bangs off a tree back into the fairway, you'll happily pick it and walk it back into the woods for a drop. That's fair, right?

[Colin L]

6 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

My ball ended up at the front of the deepest unrepaired divot I had ever seen. The only chance I had in the middle of the fairway, in this huge hole, was to advance at 30 yards. In my opinion, there needs to be something done to the rules that states this is a man-made, unnatural occurrence allowing a golfer to lift and drop no closer to the hole. Of course, under the discretion of other players. To think that this couldn't be accomplished because players would not know what an unrepaired divot looks like or wouldn't be honest somehow, well then the whole game of golf is shot because a person can cheat anytime they want. You can't stop cheaters. What is equally difficult to do is talking logic with those who think they are golf purists and you can change rules for anything because it would ruin the game (closed minded). 

Don't kid yourself into thinking you've been talking logic. ?

Edited September 22, 2020 by Colin L

[Mr. Bean]

16 hours ago, 2bGood said:

I am always a bit befuddled about these threads. If it is casual play - do what you like but don't come ask a rules questions. If it is competition - play two balls and ask for a ruling if you really feel you deserve free relief.

 

 

I do not quite follow what befuddles you. As we have read so many times the answer provided by a local pro or the referee on the course is not quite the one the player had found correct later on. Besides, what is wrong in asking a rules question based on a case that happened on a casual round (which, as I have been kindly reminded, are handicap rounds in the US system and are to be played according to the Rules of Golf...) in order to learn how it should be dealt with in a competition?

[davep043]

11 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

What is equally difficult to do is talking logic with those who think they are golf purists and you can change rules for anything because it would ruin the game (closed minded). 

I'd say quite a few people have looked at this issue with very open minds, and have yet to come up with a workable rule to cover this, short of permanently allowing preferred lies in the fairway.  What I find to be closed-minded is the idea "This is isn't fair, I deserve a better lie, YOU PEOPLE need to write a rule to allow me to take relief".

[Hawkeye77]

Just post the pic on your Instagram page and ask if it's unfair and then when you get the affirmation of a few hundred "likes" from people that don't know much you can move the ball and proceed with the version of the game you are playing - and enjoy it, I would guess, so good for you.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, davep043 said:

I'd say quite a few people have looked at this issue with very open minds, and have yet to come up with a workable rule to cover this, short of permanently allowing preferred lies in the fairway.  What I find to be closed-minded is the idea "This is isn't fair, I deserve a better lie, YOU PEOPLE need to write a rule to allow me to take relief".

 

Well said, Dave! And isn't it funny that people tend to accept any good fortune as if they were entitled to it but any misfortune is someone else's fault and should be remedied immediately as it is not FAIR.

[jvincent]

In a hypothetical dream world I sometimes live in, I would change the rules of golf so that virtually all of the free relief options are removed. All relief comes in the form of an unplayable. 

 

It would simplify the rules a lot since all the confusion about when you're entitled to relief and where to take it just disappear. Scores would be higher of course, but so what.

Edited September 22, 2020 by jvincent

[2bGood]

9 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I do not quite follow what befuddles you. As we have read so many times the answer provided by a local pro or the referee on the course is not quite the one the player had found correct later on. Besides, what is wrong in asking a rules question based on a case that happened on a casual round (which, as I have been kindly reminded, are handicap rounds in the US system and are to be played according to the Rules of Golf...) in order to learn how it should be dealt with in a competition?

 It befuddles me as typically in these threads (this one included) the person asks a questions and is not actually interested in the 'rules' answer. If the OP had come one here and asked -' in RoG can you take relief from irregular turf near a drain?', that would make sense and fit within your description. But from my read the OP is not actually interested in learning, he decided already what he thinks should be done regardless of the rules.

Edited September 22, 2020 by 2bGood

[2bGood]

6 minutes ago, jvincent said:

In a hypothetical dream world I sometimes live in, I would change the rules of golf so that virtually all of the free relief options are removed. All relief comes in the form of an unplayable. 

 

It would simplify the rules a lot since all the confusion about when you're entitled to relief and where to take it just disappear. Scores would be higher of course, but so what.

 

Your dream world has one BIG issue - care for the course. It is pretty easy to know the top of a sprinkler head or damage newly planted tree, so you still want people taking drops away from them.  

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, jvincent said:

In a hypothetical dream world I sometimes live in, I would change the rules of golf so that virtually all of the free relief options are removed. All relief comes in the form of an unplayable. 

 

It would simplify the rules a lot since all the confusion about when you're entitled to relief and where to take it just disappear. Scores would be higher of course, but so what.

 

Would it not be even simpler if you were allowed to move your ball with no penalty any time and anywhere on the course 2 club lengths and no closer to hole? That would render a big bunch of current Rules obsolete and create a permanent LCP for all player to use whenever their ball is in a divot hole.

[2bGood]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Would it not be even simpler if you were allowed to move your ball with no penalty any time and anywhere on the course 2 club lengths and no closer to hole? That would render a big bunch of current Rules obsolete and create a permanent LCP for all player to use whenever their ball is in a divot hole.

 Yes it would simpler then the current rules. If you going down the relief from divots pathway I do think you end up giving free relief anywhere on the ?fairway? ?Course?. 

 

Just because it is simpler does not mean it would be better. That is a different debate. 

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

18 minutes ago, 2bGood said:

 Yes it would simpler then the current rules. If you going down the relief from divots pathway I do think you end up giving free relief anywhere on the ?fairway? ?Course?. 

 

Just because it is simpler does not mean it would be better. That is a different debate. 

 

 

 

I was simply joking...