Matthew Fitzpatrick whines about BDC...

[tgoodspe1991]

Anything that is done that alters the game unilaterally across the board will make no difference what-so-ever. Change the equipment, roll back the ball, do whatever you want.

 

If you reel in Bryson from 340y to 300y, then you'll also move Fitzpatrick from 300y to 260y. It won't make a bit of difference.

 

The longest hitters will still be the longest hitters no matter what.

[bladehunter]

11 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Its a remarkable stat that Couples hits it over 20 yards farther at 60 years old than when he was 30.

 

273 yards at age 30

294 yards at age 60

 

It ain’t better fitness makin him hit the ball that far ; )

 

 

Lol. Yep.  I guess the greater point I’m trying and failing at making is this.  Think about it objectively. 
 

the current governing body is part of the generation who shuttled in and oversaw these giant leaps in tech and distance. Right ?    They themselves saw these gains as they aged.  Each decade these guys hit it further as a rule ( exceptions will exists in anything ).   The ones in the equipment bizz made those profits , paychecks,  sales etc.  

 

and here comes the guys behind them.  Like me.  I know now I’ll never hit it farther  than I do right now minus some assault on the body that no working joe has time for.  I’m declining every year.  It’s just math.  
 

the rub that rubs me wrong comes in here .... a guy like me or a pro etc who knows he hits it good , and sees with his own eyes what’s coming behind him , and how the seniors still enter and compete in the mid am and men’s am events ..... he speaks up and advocates a rollback right ? ...... and the voices from the generation before come at him loudly.   The ruling bodies drag their feet for 20 years not doing anything ..... and on and on ..... and then they have the nerve to yell “ sour grapes “ in our direction.   Or my favorite “ selfish “.   Lol.  Yea.  You sold the game out for your own benefit , and it’s me .... I’m the selfish guy.  
 

It’s just odd to me how short sighted folks are.  We’ve had soooo many members here admit they hit it longer now than in their 30s.  And then poof.  “ don’t touch my distance , if I get shorter I can’t play “.  Mmmmkay?! How did you play before ? 
 

 

Edited October 15, 2020 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

Anything that is done that alters the game unilaterally across the board will make no difference what-so-ever. Change the equipment, roll back the ball, do whatever you want.

 

If you reel in Bryson from 340y to 300y, then you'll also move Fitzpatrick from 300y to 260y. It won't make a bit of difference.

 

The longest hitters will still be the longest hitters no matter what.

Absolutely, and that  is how it should be. 

[physasst]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Lol. Yep.  I guess the greater point I’m trying and failing at making is this.  Think about it objectively. 
 

the current governing body is part of the generation who shuttled in and oversaw these giant leaps in tech and distance. Right ?    They themselves saw these gains as they aged.  Each decade these guys hit it further as a rule ( exceptions will exists in anything ).   The ones in the equipment bizz made those profits , paychecks,  sales etc.  

 

and here comes the guys behind them.  Like me.  I know now I’ll never hit it farther  than I do right now minus some assault on the body that no working joe has time for.  I’m declining every year.  It’s just math.  
 

the rub that rubs me wrong comes in here .... a guy like me or a pro etc who knows he hits it good , and sees with his own eyes what’s coming behind him , and how the seniors still enter and compete in the mid am and men’s am events ..... he speaks up and advocates a rollback right ? ...... and the voices from the generation before come at him loudly.   The ruling bodies drag their feet for 20 years not doing anything ..... and on and on ..... and then they have the nerve to yell “ sour grapes “ in our direction.   Or my favorite “ selfish “.   Lol.  Yea.  You sold the game out for your own benefit , and it’s me .... I’m the selfish guy.  
 

It’s just odd to me how short sighted folks are.  We’ve had soooo many members here admit they hit it longer now than in their 30s.  And then poof.  “ don’t touch my distance , if I get shorter I can’t play “.  Mmmmkay?! How did you play before ? 
 

 

Some guys are just long. I play in a skins group, and one of our members is a legit 0 handicap. He's also like 71 years old. He is still the longest hitter in the group and I have been on the range with him watching him hit 300-310 yard (carry) drives at 71 years old. He's got a slow lazy Ernie Els, Freddy Couples type swing. It's kind of freaky watching this old guy just outdrive everyone...gives me hope. LOL.

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

MFitz say like,

 

 

You mad, golfwrx bros?

 

 

On a side note:   That's why the Euros come to the PGATOUR, other than the cash  is so they don't have to play in mittens. 

[milesgiles]

39 minutes ago, PureStrikes54 said:

 

This just isn't correct. PGA tour average clubhead speed hovers around 113-114 with only 14 guys in 2021 season exceeding a 120mph average and 20 guys in the 2020 season. Also plenty of PGA tour rookies averaging under 120mph. At the end of the day yes 120mph+ speed is an advantage but absolutely not a "minimum requirement".

 

I don’t agree. I’m talking about young guys 5 years away from pro golf, I’ve seen enough of them to know you are sool swinging much less than that on golfs current trajectory. There’s just too many of them and the game is setup to their advantage

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Shilgy said:

So based on the last sentence are you being sarcastic? Or are you in the Fitzpatrick camp of claiming BDC is using peds? You don’t think they are testing the crap out of him?  Does every improvement in player ability get treated as cheating or just length? Does every improvement get treated with this sky is falling the game need to be saved mentality? OMG he’s too straight we need wider fairways to make it fair to the other players. He putts too well me must make greens bumpy...or maybe make the hole smaller.

 

Fitzpatrick lost all credibility with his comments. “I drove it wonderfully and was a mile back” he claims. He hit 50% of his fairways and Bryson 50% in the same two rounds. At a much longer distance.. 

Want to fix it on tour? Play more courses where length is not rewarded as heavily. But make no mistake about it. The greatest players have always been amongst the longest of their era.

I realize you are sorry you asked now. But I had another thought.  
 

I do actually agree with Fitzpatrick now that I study it.    I’ve felt this way a while.  There’s something inherently “ dishonest “ to me about the way the game is played now.  And it’s a lot of things.  I won’t elaborate unless you want me to , but I get what he’s saying.  “ making a mockery “ is him literally saying that same thing.   It’s a bit of a clown show at times.  And I swear I’ve been pulling for Bryson while watching. It’s not him personally.  
 

something about a pro golfer needing hollow long irons or hybrids and a giant driver to play that just is dishonest in my opinion.  And I’m not trying to push my opinion really. Just explain it and Fitzpatricks take as I see it.  Would be like a pro bowler having bumpers on either side of the lane , or a rowing team getting an outboard motor to let them have a break.  Anyway.  So yes I agree with him really.  People aren’t getting better. They are learning how to maximize the equipment designed to help high handicappers enjoy the game.  Better is a very controversial term.  

[pinhigh27]

38 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

100% ..... what it’s basically done is took the naturally gifted athlete out of it.  And replaced him with the guy who spends hours on trackman maximizing.  That persons may also be a gifted athlete. But he can no longer just wake up and hit the ball. He now has to learn 2 swings at least.  One down and one up.   

No, its still about speed. Trackman maximizing doesn't do that much, unless you're being compared to someone spinning it 3500. 

 

You can have high launch and low spin with a level angle of attack.  You don't have to swing way up to have "ideal" numbers

[Titleist99]

If he had Trackman and a launch monitor he could have maxed out his equipment then, don't you think? I'm just saying....

[pinhigh27]

12 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

the way the game is played now

What does this even mean, the way they game is played now? Nicklaus did the same thing. Tiger did the same thing. 

 

Dominant players hitting the ball really far is nothing new to golf. I have no idea why everyone is losing their minds about this. When Tiger burst onto the scene he was literally taking on angles no one thought was possible and hitting wedges into par 5s. He straight up destroyed augusta. You act like hitting it far being important is a new thing. It's not. 

 

Again, just a bunch of old guys with nothing better to do but complain. 

[bladehunter]

3 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

No, its still about speed. Trackman maximizing doesn't do that much, unless you're being compared to someone spinning it 3500. 

 

You can have high launch and low spin with a level angle of attack.  You don't have to swing way up to have "ideal" numbers

That’s the rub.  I’m the guy spinning it 3500 with a -2 aoa.  Good swing for me is -1 to 0 aoa and 2800 spin.  There is no 2300 spin balls with a upright late release like I have.  Think stenson.  I can hit a 13 degree 3 wood 2 miles off the deck.  It’s 2 different swings entirely.  

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

What does this even mean, the way they game is played now? Nicklaus did the same thing. Tiger did the same thing. 

 

Dominant players hitting the ball really far is nothing new to golf. I have no idea why everyone is losing their minds about this. When Tiger burst onto the scene he was literally taking on angles no one thought was possible and hitting wedges into par 5s. He straight up destroyed augusta. You act like hitting it far being important is a new thing. It's not. 

 

Again, just a bunch of old guys with nothing better to do but complain. 

Nope.  Now it’s played above the trees.  Even tiger and jack played inside the confines of the course most often.  Shaping it with the bends of the track.  Longer. Yes. Flying doglegs regularly to see flip sand wedges in ?  Nope.  And I’m not having a cow about Bryson doing it.  I’ve been screaming this here for years , that I compete with guys locally who do it.  Lots of them.  It’s two distinct styles of play.  
 

edit - how old are you for context ? 

Edited October 15, 2020 by bladehunter

[pinhigh27]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

That’s the rub.  I’m the guy spinning it 3500 with a -2 aoa.  Good swing for me is -1 to 0 aoa and 2800 spin.  There is no 2300 spin balls with a upright late release like I have.  Think stenson.  I can hit a 13 degree 3 wood 2 miles off the deck.  It’s 2 different swings entirely.  

You're hitting it low on the face then.  Fix your swing 

 

No one pures an appropriate lofted driver with 3500 spin. 

[milesgiles]

3 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

What does this even mean, the way they game is played now? Nicklaus did the same thing. Tiger did the same thing. 

 

Dominant players hitting the ball really far is nothing new to golf. I have no idea why everyone is losing their minds about this. When Tiger burst onto the scene he was literally taking on angles no one thought was possible and hitting wedges into par 5s. He straight up destroyed augusta. You act like hitting it far being important is a new thing. It's not. 

 

Again, just a bunch of old guys with nothing better to do but complain. 

 

Ironically Nicklaus and Woods absolutely did not do the same thing, because when they started they didn’t have ridiculous 460cc  drivers.

 

they hit it far, as did Palmer, Hogan and others, because they could apply a small clubhead accurately and quickly to the ball. 

 

Now? Whale away, as Woosie says it’s disgusting what you can get away with off the tee now 

[bladehunter]

4 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

You're hitting it low on the face then.  Fix your swing 

 

No one pures an appropriate lofted driver with 3500 spin. 

Not true. I don’t claim to never miss. But I can show you the wear mark very high on the face.  I never pick driver off the tee.  Ever. 
 

“ fix “ is the key word.  That’s relative to what you’re hitting. If it’s a small driver teed 2 inches I’m longer than most.  Same swing.  
 

Need to search and read “ very late release trackman “.  There’s some published data on the effects of spin at high speed with a late release .  It’s literally tells you what I’m saying I see . 
 

but that’s neither here or there.  

Edited October 15, 2020 by bladehunter

[pinhigh27]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Not true. I don’t claim to never miss. But I can show you the wear mark very high on the face.  I never pick driver off the tee.  Ever. 
 

“ fix “ is the key word.  That’s relative to what you’re hitting. If it’s a small driver teed 2 inches I’m longer than most.  Same swing.  

You are not going to spin a driver 3500 high off the face. Do you understand vertical gear effect? 

[Shilgy]

11 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Nope.  Now it’s played above the trees.  Even tiger and jack played inside the confines of the course most often.  Shaping it with the bends of the track.  Longer. Yes. Flying doglegs regularly to see flip sand wedges in ?  Nope.  And I’m not having a cow about Bryson doing it.  I’ve been screaming this here for years , that I compete with guys locally who do it.  Lots of them.  It’s two distinct styles of play.  
 

edit - how old are you for context ? 

You just did "have a cow"a few posts above in a reply to me. You said he's playing dishonestly. As of a pro cannot use any legal equipment he desires. You don't like these guys maxing out, same as Fitzpatrick. He doesn't want to do there with to change and neither do you. Change your pattern, you're not stuck with it. Same with the pro whiner. He says he could learn to hit it 40 yards further but doesn't want to. Lol. It's his profession and he's not willing to do whatever it takes as is Bryson.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, pinhigh27 said:

You are not going to spin a driver 3500 high off the face. Do you understand vertical gear effect? 

So I’m crazy. I’m hitting low spin bullet cuts that I’m picking off the tee .... 🤦‍♂️ Do you realize all the holes in that statement i just made ?  Low spin bullets that fly 280 ???? Do you understand lift and trajectory ? 
 

trackman literally spits at me and says that I’m leaving 30-40 yards on the table at times according to speed.   
 

maybe we need to quantify “ low “ and “ high “ on the face.  I’m saying above center.  Center being the lowest I hit it.  I don’t recall the last “ thin “ driver I hit.  
 

 

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You just did "have a cow"a few posts above in a reply to me. You said he's playing dishonestly. As of a pro cannot use any legal equipment he desires. You don't like these guys maxing out, same as Fitzpatrick. He doesn't want to do there with to change and neither do you. Change your pattern, you're not stuck with it. Same with the pro whiner. He says he could learn to hit it 40 yards further but doesn't want to. Lol. It's his profession and he's not willing to do whatever it takes as is Bryson.

Sorry if this sounds harsh.

No I can take it.  I don’t mean that he’s literally dishonest per the rules. I mean that for me it goes against what I feel is the spirit of the game itself. 
 

a quote comes to mind “ not everything that is against the law is wrong and not everything that is wrong is against the law “. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by bladehunter

[milesgiles]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

No I can take it.  I don’t mean that he’s literally dishonest per the rules. I mean that for me it goes against what I feel is the spirit of the game itself. 

 

Show old Tom Morris a 460cc driver and a 3 inch tee he’d throw you in the ocean. Whatever it is, it isn’t golf. 

[pinhigh27]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

So I’m crazy. I’m hitting low spin bullet cuts that I’m picking off the tee .... 🤦‍♂️ Do you realize all the holes in that statement i just made ?  Low spin bullets that fly 280 ???? Do you understand lift and trajectory ? 
 

trackman literally spits at me and says that I’m leaving 30-40 yards on the table at times according to speed.   
 

maybe we need to quantify “ low “ and “ high “ on the face.  I’m saying above center.  Center being the lowest I hit it.  I don’t recall the last “ thin “ driver I hit.  
 

 

Then you aren't going to spin it 3500. If your miss is above the COG you're not going to have problems with spin being too high. 

 

I think you're hitting it lower on face than you think if your spin is correct. 

 

Again, feel free to reference vertical gear effect. 

[pinhigh27]

If you're describing a "bullet cut" as your prototypical ball-flight then that's probably low heel all else equal, which would make sense for losing yardage but being more accurate. 

 

You don't hit a bullet cut high off the face. High off the face launches high with less spin 

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, pinhigh27 said:

If you're describing a "bullet cut" as your prototypical ball-flight then that's probably low heel all else equal, which would make sense for losing yardage but being more accurate. 

 

You don't hit a bullet cut high off the face. High off the face launches high with less spin 

Pm sent.  We’re way off in left field onto my swing and I had no intention of going there .  

[munichop]

@tgoodspe1991

i disagree about a universal rollback making no difference. Of course it does. Use your 40 yard example. The proximity of a tour pro from 170 vs 210 yards doesn’t change the birdie chances as much as 130-170 yards. So BD is 170 from the hole instead of 130 and MF is 210 instead of 170.  BD still has an advantage but not as much, especially if he is in the rough or has a penalty area to factor.  Now look at the design of the holes. Take 15 at Augusta. Move both players 40 yards back. This was already done but the equipment neutered that. The hole was once 500 yards and a big tee shot left a 5 wood or 3 iron over the water. Now it is 530 but guys are hitting 8 iron.  They talk about shot values there which means consideration about risk before taking on the shot. The equipment has removed a lot of that. 
Sadly  the best young guys now only know 460 cc spring drivers that correct misses. The failures in the governing bodies were in the late 80’s and early 90’s.  The top players play more bomb and gouge because they can. The older equipment didn’t allow it; the penalty for misses was too severe.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

No I can take it.  I don’t mean that he’s literally dishonest per the rules. I mean that for me it goes against what I feel is the spirit of the game itself. 
 

a quote comes to mind “ not everything that is against the law is wrong and not everything that is wrong is against the law “. 

So what is honest then? Pure blade only? Not sure the Blueprint would qualify with the screw in the head. Are all cavity back playing pros dishonest? Pros with hybrids? Mallet putters? Loudmouth pants? Do they have to smoke unfiltered Camels and play Hogan blades? Is Kevin Na honest? He is honest enough to say his game is better with cavity back irons. 

 

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

Show old Tom Morris a 460cc driver and a 3 inch tee he’d throw you in the ocean. Whatever it is, it isn’t golf. 

It may seem odd to Old Tom but it is the golf of today. 

[Shilgy]

5 minutes ago, munichop said:

@tgoodspe1991

i disagree about a universal rollback making no difference. Of course it does. Use your 40 yard example. The proximity of a tour pro from 170 vs 210 yards doesn’t change the birdie chances as much as 130-170 yards. So BD is 170 from the hole instead of 130 and MF is 210 instead of 170.  BD still has an advantage but not as much, especially if he is in the rough or has a penalty area to factor.  Now look at the design of the holes. Take 15 at Augusta. Move both players 40 yards back. This was already done but the equipment neutered that. The hole was once 500 yards and a big tee shot left a 5 wood or 3 iron over the water. Now it is 530 but guys are hitting 8 iron.  They talk about shot values there which means consideration about risk before taking on the shot. The equipment has removed a lot of that. 
Sadly  the best young guys now only know 460 cc spring drivers that correct misses. The failures in the governing bodies were in the late 80’s and early 90’s.  The top players play more bomb and gouge because they can. The older equipment didn’t allow it; the penalty for misses was too severe.

Where can you get these drivers that correct misses? Is that tour issue stuff? Mine still allows misses plenty of times. 
 

I know some will disagree but I still maintain persimmon was easier to hit straight than the new big heads. The new stuff will go further...mostly the ball and the lighter and longer shaft.  This is not hearsay....I played the old stuff for about 20 years at near scratch level and now the last 20 with the new. 

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So what is honest then? Pure blade only? Not sure the Blueprint would qualify with the screw in the head. Are all cavity back playing pros dishonest? Pros with hybrids? Mallet putters? Loudmouth pants? Do they have to smoke unfiltered Camels and play Hogan blades? Is Kevin Na honest? He is honest enough to say his game is better with cavity back irons. 

 

It may seem odd to Old Tom but it is the golf of today. 

There’s really no point in my answering any of those.  It’s my opinion and It’s based on my personal feelings about the spirit of this game.  Obviously Fitzpatrick carries a similar feeling or he wouldn’t have said what he said.  
 

maybe it’s too idealistic?   Could be.  And no it’s not tied to a CB vs MB debate. I don’t even own the blueprints anymore. Modus 130 has taken my elbow out.   Have to  start over left handed or take up hockey i guess. 

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, tgoodspe1991 said:

Anything that is done that alters the game unilaterally across the board will make no difference what-so-ever. Change the equipment, roll back the ball, do whatever you want.

 

If you reel in Bryson from 340y to 300y, then you'll also move Fitzpatrick from 300y to 260y. It won't make a bit of difference.

 

The longest hitters will still be the longest hitters no matter what.

 

Unless they do to courses what was done very successfully at the PGA Championship.

 

 

Best tournament, exciting to watch, and competitive for all styles of play. 
 

 

 

[pinhigh27]

23 minutes ago, munichop said:

@tgoodspe1991

i disagree about a universal rollback making no difference. Of course it does. Use your 40 yard example. The proximity of a tour pro from 170 vs 210 yards doesn’t change the birdie chances as much as 130-170 yards. So BD is 170 from the hole instead of 130 and MF is 210 instead of 170.  BD still has an advantage but not as much, especially if he is in the rough or has a penalty area to factor.  Now look at the design of the holes. Take 15 at Augusta. Move both players 40 yards back. This was already done but the equipment neutered that. The hole was once 500 yards and a big tee shot left a 5 wood or 3 iron over the water. Now it is 530 but guys are hitting 8 iron.  They talk about shot values there which means consideration about risk before taking on the shot. The equipment has removed a lot of that. 
Sadly  the best young guys now only know 460 cc spring drivers that correct misses. The failures in the governing bodies were in the late 80’s and early 90’s.  The top players play more bomb and gouge because they can. The older equipment didn’t allow it; the penalty for misses was too severe.

Why is the goal to penalize Bryson and neutralize the advantage he has relative to Fitzpatrick ? 
 

is it really hard to believe that in a game of getting the ball in the hole , that the further you can hit the ball reliably the better ? 

[Shilgy]

11 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

There’s really no point in my answering any of those.  It’s my opinion and It’s based on my personal feelings about the spirit of this game.  Obviously Fitzpatrick carries a similar feeling or he wouldn’t have said what he said.  
 

maybe it’s too idealistic?   Could be.  And no it’s not tied to a CB vs MB debate. I don’t even own the blueprints anymore. Modus 130 has taken my elbow out.   Have to  start over left handed or take up hockey i guess. 

I get it and I guess I am just grumpy today. There was a certain charm to golf back in the day. But then it really holds true of most sports. I blame the media. These days it’s either over the top hype or TMZ “journalism”.