Matthew Fitzpatrick whines about BDC...

[cardoustie]

Does anyone else play in Am's and Mid-Am's ??? 

 

(( And as a side reference Ontario is a population of 14 million, there are only 4 states in the USA with larger populations ... NY, FL, CA and TX.))  It's competitive is all I am saying

 

Because here are my observations from playing in these national and provincial comps ... 

 

As recently as 12 years ago, my last provincial Am FWIW, when I was 40, me swinging 109mph had me as long as even the youngest college guys I played with, even dare I say longer 60% of the time

 

FFWD to nowadays and ALMOST EVERY college player or 25 yr old mid-am cat, or top junior is SWINGING ~ 120mph.  I am a short knocker in this modern day crowd (and did a post on it recently).  These guys used to be unicorns that you might see in Fall Scramble cash events, now they are everywhere.  120 is the old 105 ... and I feel 130 will be the new standard on tour in 10 years ... or dare I say sooner

Edited October 15, 2020 by cardoustie

[Titleist99]

30 minutes ago, gvogel said:

And according to you the USGA could hold the US Open there because: LOWEST SCORE WINS!

The first US Open was played in 1895 at Newport Golf Club at the time it was a nine hole golf course, so the Championship was a 36 hole, one day competition....So, yes! they could hold the 2030 US OPEN there because every one would play the same course and the lowest score would win.......probably Charlie Woods.....any more questions....LOL! 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Dr. Block said:

That course looks like a good bit of fun.  I used to play something similar with my buddy down in Greenville, SC.  It's been some years, so I can't remember the name, but I think it's owned by the Haas's.  Blade probably knows of it.   Playing there really dialed in the scoring clubs, and it was just a lot of fun in general.  It even had lights so it could be played at night. 

Crosswinds par 3 maybe ?  

[bladehunter]

57 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Does anyone else play in Am's and Mid-Am's ??? 

 

(( And as a side reference Ontario is a population of 14 million, there are only 4 states in the USA with larger populations ... NY, FL, CA and TX.))  It's competitive is all I am saying

 

Because here are my observations from playing in these national and provincial comps ... 

 

As recently as 12 years ago, my last provincial Am FWIW, when I was 40, me swinging 109mph had me as long as even the youngest college guys I played with, even dare I say longer 60% of the time

 

FFWD to nowadays and ALMOST EVERY college player or 25 yr old mid-am cat, or top junior is SWINGING ~ 120mph.  I am a short knocker in this modern day crowd (and did a post on it recently).  These guys used to be unicorns that you might see in Fall Scramble cash events, now they are everywhere.  120 is the old 105 ... and I feel 130 will be the new standard on tour in 10 years ... or dare I say sooner

And that’s what I’ve been reporting.  I’m not short.  I’m 40.  Haven’t really been on trackman this year.  But I saw 120-122 last summer a couple times testing drivers.  And I’m not talking swinging like Bryson .  But in a good groove.  I’d say I play with a 115 ish average swing everyday.     And I keep up with the club kids pretty easily most of the time. But when you get to the mid am or state am qualifiers , you quickly know that there are a ton of either 125-130 swingers , or guys at 115-120 who are 100 % maximized on aoa etc.     I say these things and old guys on here literally call me a liar In not so many words.  These people destroy 6500-7000 yard courses.  4 years ago we had an blue collar working stiff mid am shoot - 17 on a long but wide open track our county championship was on.  It was a 3 day event.  Do that math.   
 

Moral of the story -   Get that shoulder tilt up , buy some long tees and some speed sticks to train with.  It’s going to take 340 in the air to win your city championship before long.   Lol.   Pass the  protein shake. I need to wash these peds down.   

Edited October 15, 2020 by bladehunter

[Dr. Block]

14 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Crosswinds par 3 maybe ?  

That's the one.  Second only to the Preserve at Verdae as my favorite course down there.  

[Shilgy]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

And that’s what I’ve been reporting.  I’m not short.  I’m 40.  Haven’t really been on trackman this year.  But I saw 120-122 last summer a couple times testing drivers.  And I’m not talking swinging like Bryson .  But in a good groove.  I’d say I play with a 115 ish average swing everyday.     And I keep up with the club kids pretty easily most of the time. But when you get to the mid am or state am qualifiers , you quickly know that there are a ton of either 125-130 swingers , or guys at 115-120 who are 100 % maximized on aoa etc.     I say these things and old guys on here literally call me a liar In not so many words.  These people destroy 6500-7000 yard courses.  4 years ago we had an overweight mid am who cuts grass for a living shoot - 17 on a long but wide open track our county championship was on.  It was a 3 day event.  Do that math.   
 

Moral of the story -   Get that shoulder tilt up , buy some long tees and some speed sticks to train with.  It’s going to take 340 in the air to win your city championship before long.   Lol.   Pass the  protein shake. I need to wash these peds down.   

So based on the last sentence are you being sarcastic? Or are you in the Fitzpatrick camp of claiming BDC is using peds? You don’t think they are testing the crap out of him?  Does every improvement in player ability get treated as cheating or just length? Does every improvement get treated with this sky is falling the game need to be saved mentality? OMG he’s too straight we need wider fairways to make it fair to the other players. He putts too well me must make greens bumpy...or maybe make the hole smaller.

 

Fitzpatrick lost all credibility with his comments. “I drove it wonderfully and was a mile back” he claims. He hit 50% of his fairways and Bryson 50% in the same two rounds. At a much longer distance.. 

Want to fix it on tour? Play more courses where length is not rewarded as heavily. But make no mistake about it. The greatest players have always been amongst the longest of their era.

[bscinstnct]

MFitz say like,

 

 

You mad, golfwrx bros?

 

 

[bladehunter]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

That's the one.  Second only to the Preserve at Verdae as my favorite course down there.  

Crazy for me to say.  But for whatever reason I’ve never played that par 3.    If you’re ever back you should checkout pebble creek , and the course at Furman university.  And if you want some Mountain View’s Cherokee valley is up and coming back ..... new owners and new clubhouse about 75% complete etc. 

[Dr. Block]

20 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Crazy for me to say.  But for whatever reason I’ve never played that par 3.    If you’re ever back you should checkout pebble creek , and the course at Furman university.  And if you want some Mountain View’s Cherokee valley is up and coming back ..... new owners and new clubhouse about 75% complete etc. 

Unfortunately my buddy moved away from there, so I don't know when I'll be back. I enjoyed the Furman course. I also liked Boscobel. And I really enjoyed the BBQ at The Smoking Pig. 

 

We did a couple of the mountain type courses, but I couldn't get those figured up.  I've never seen so many blind tee and precarious second shot holes as I did at those couple mountain courses we played.  It was like playing Golden Tee in real life..haha  

 

You should check out Crosswinds.  They used to do a big skins game there once or twice a week, it brought out a lot of players. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Dr. Block

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So based on the last sentence are you being sarcastic? Or are you in the Fitzpatrick camp of claiming BDC is using peds? You don’t think they are testing the crap out of him?  Does every improvement in player ability get treated as cheating or just length? Does every improvement get treated with this sky is falling the game need to be saved mentality? OMG he’s too straight we need wider fairways to make it fair to the other players. He putts too well me must make greens bumpy...or maybe make the hole smaller.

 

Fitzpatrick lost all credibility with his comments. “I drove it wonderfully and was a mile back” he claims. He hit 50% of his fairways and Bryson 50% in the same two rounds. At a much longer distance.. 

Want to fix it on tour? Play more courses where length is not rewarded as heavily. But make no mistake about it. The greatest players have always been amongst the longest of their era.

To answer honestly I’d say half and half.  All peds aren’t illegal.  And who knows if they test or not. Not really a transparent organization.   But it was mostly in jest / sarcasm in response to the other posters experiences.  
 

see I happen to believe that the current mid-am to very early senior age player is the last of a breed of this game.  The in between era.   Transitional.  All the ones coming after us were raised on this type play , broadie etc.  so yes.  Some of it is the knowing what you’ve been robbed of compared to generations past.  In years gone by a 115 plus mph 40 year old isn’t worried about length when playing seniors down to college kids.    But today , the new driver and ball allows that 50 year old to turn up the aoa , and launch it without fear.  And basically do the same as I can with 10 mph less speed. Through launch etc. the college kid was born doing this and can do it with greater speed.  So .... my hand is forced.  Continue to hit the downward aoa low fade that’s infinitely controllable ,( sitting on 78% fairways hit right now for the year )  or tilt and launch it and hope it stays in bounds.  So yes.  I’m big enough to admit that sour grapes is part of it.  But other folks have to admit that being able to fly it farther at 60 than whne they were 30 is their own selfish agenda.  

[milesgiles]

21 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

So based on the last sentence are you being sarcastic? Or are you in the Fitzpatrick camp of claiming BDC is using peds? You don’t think they are testing the crap out of him?  Does every improvement in player ability get treated as cheating or just length? Does every improvement get treated with this sky is falling the game need to be saved mentality? OMG he’s too straight we need wider fairways to make it fair to the other players. He putts too well me must make greens bumpy...or maybe make the hole smaller.

 

Fitzpatrick lost all credibility with his comments. “I drove it wonderfully and was a mile back” he claims. He hit 50% of his fairways and Bryson 50% in the same two rounds. At a much longer distance.. 

Want to fix it on tour? Play more courses where length is not rewarded as heavily. But make no mistake about it. The greatest players have always been amongst the longest of their era.

 

To answer your first question, no they certainly aren’t testing hardly anyone for anything. Look at the number of withdrawals for the Olympics if you want proof of that.

 

and no, I don’t see any evidence at all Bryson is using. He’s fat, with no incredible reported lifting stats. 

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, cardoustie said:

Does anyone else play in Am's and Mid-Am's ??? 

 

(( And as a side reference Ontario is a population of 14 million, there are only 4 states in the USA with larger populations ... NY, FL, CA and TX.))  It's competitive is all I am saying

 

Because here are my observations from playing in these national and provincial comps ... 

 

As recently as 12 years ago, my last provincial Am FWIW, when I was 40, me swinging 109mph had me as long as even the youngest college guys I played with, even dare I say longer 60% of the time

 

FFWD to nowadays and ALMOST EVERY college player or 25 yr old mid-am cat, or top junior is SWINGING ~ 120mph.  I am a short knocker in this modern day crowd (and did a post on it recently).  These guys used to be unicorns that you might see in Fall Scramble cash events, now they are everywhere.  120 is the old 105 ... and I feel 130 will be the new standard on tour in 10 years ... or dare I say sooner

 

100%

 

120mph minimum is an absolute requirement for anyone with pro aspirations, it’s very common in younger kids who grew up with 460cc drivers (even if they aren’t particularly good, I’ve played with many who weren’t near british scratch)

[physasst]

Hey, I'm 49. I'm definitely trying to get longer. I'm hitting the gym, lifting, I'm already 6'0" and 225. Now, just doing overspeed training. Started with Driver ss of about 104, now 110, hoping to get to 115-117 this winter. 

 

It's too much of an advantage not to try and use.

 

Mike

[oikos1]

16 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

To answer honestly I’d say half and half.  All peds aren’t illegal.  And who knows if they test or not. Not really a transparent organization.   But it was mostly in jest / sarcasm in response to the other posters experiences.  
 

see I happen to believe that the current mid-am to very early senior age player is the last of a breed of this game.  The in between era.   Transitional.  All the ones coming after us were raised on this type play , broadie etc.  so yes.  Some of it is the knowing what you’ve been robbed of compared to generations past.  In years gone by a 115 plus mph 40 year old isn’t worried about length when playing seniors down to college kids.    But today , the new driver and ball allows that 50 year old to turn up the aoa , and launch it without fear.  And basically do the same as I can with 10 mph less speed. Through launch etc. the college kid was born doing this and can do it with greater speed.  So .... my hand is forced.  Continue to hit the downward aoa low fade that’s infinitely controllable ,( sitting on 78% fairways hit right now for the year )  or tilt and launch it and hope it stays in bounds.  So yes.  I’m big enough to admit that sour grapes is part of it.  But other folks have to admit that being able to fly it farther at 60 than whne they were 30 is their own selfish agenda.  

Can you show me these 60 year olds who don't like hitting it farther than when they were 30?

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Can you show me these 60 year olds who don't like hitting it farther than when they were 30?

I didn’t say they don’t like it.  I’m saying that want is the other side of the selfish drive coin.   They absolutely love it.  And it’s just as selfish as the fast guy wanting it toned down so that the current launch parameters aren’t possible.  I’m simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those claiming “ sour grapes “.  

[cardoustie]

8 minutes ago, physasst said:

Hey, I'm 49. I'm definitely trying to get longer. I'm hitting the gym, lifting, I'm already 6'0" and 225. Now, just doing overspeed training. Started with Driver ss of about 104, now 110, hoping to get to 115-117 this winter. 

 

It's too much of an advantage not to try and use.

 

Mike

 

I'm going to try to go from 109 to 115 this winter myself

 

More Cardio. More lifting. speed training.  I have 30 lbs Bryson can have

 

What else can you do with this CV19 gong show going on ?

 

[cardoustie]

Blade is right.  I can honestly say I am longer than I was when I played university golf in the early 90's

 

Two irons longer.  Mind blowing really

 

One of those if of course loft but one is the ball

 

WAYYYY longer with driver and fairways

[bscinstnct]

14 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Can you show me these 60 year olds who don't like hitting it farther than when they were 30?

 

Fred Couples

 

2019 Driving distance: 294 yards

 

1989 Driving Distance: 273 Yards

[Nard_S]

Ian Poulter suggested on FB post that a way to put a governor on huge drives  is have a minimum loft spec on the driver. The positive AOA swing loses steam if driver loft stays at 8* or more or so he says. I think it is a fair idea.

[oikos1]

10 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I didn’t say they don’t like it.  I’m saying that want is the other side of the selfish drive coin.   They absolutely love it.  And it’s just as selfish as the fast guy wanting it toned down so that the current launch parameters aren’t possible.  I’m simply pointing out the hypocrisy of those claiming “ sour grapes “.  

Got it.  I wasn't making that claim.  I also wouldn't say it's a selfish claim of those who hit it farther now than when they were younger.  It's what's available under the rules of golf.  No shame in that.

 

I would like to point out that you yourself have shown that hitting the ball farther is a skill:

 

"So .... my hand is forced.  Continue to hit the downward aoa low fade that’s infinitely controllable ,( sitting on 78% fairways hit right now for the year )  or tilt and launch it and hope it stays in bounds. "

 

So, you choose to throttle back with the same equipment as you lack the confidence or skill to hammer away and are unwilling to take the risk.  Nothing wrong with that as I would expect 78% fairways is quite competitive. 

[PureStrikes54]

28 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

100%

 

120mph minimum is an absolute requirement for anyone with pro aspirations, it’s very common in younger kids who grew up with 460cc drivers (even if they aren’t particularly good, I’ve played with many who weren’t near british scratch)

 

This just isn't correct. PGA tour average clubhead speed hovers around 113-114 with only 14 guys in 2021 season exceeding a 120mph average and 20 guys in the 2020 season. Also plenty of PGA tour rookies averaging under 120mph. At the end of the day yes 120mph+ speed is an advantage but absolutely not a "minimum requirement".

[pinhigh27]

11 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Ian Poulter suggested on FB post that a way to put a governor on huge drives  is have a minimum loft spec on the driver. The positive AOA swing loses steam if driver loft stays at 8* or more or so he says. I think it is a fair idea.

Speed is still speed. What if we put a governor on whatever ian poulter is good at? I wonder how he'd like that 

[pinhigh27]

1 minute ago, PureStrikes54 said:

 

This just isn't correct. PGA tour average clubhead speed hovers around 113-114 with only 14 guys in 2021 season exceeding a 120mph average and 20 guys in the 2020 season. Also plenty of PGA tour rookies averaging under 120mph. At the end of the day yes 120mph+ speed is an advantage but absolutely not a "minimum requirement".

 

Morikawa just won a PGA with mid to high 160s ball speed! 

 

 

[mahonie]

4 minutes ago, oikos1 said:

Got it.  I wasn't making that claim.  I also wouldn't say it's a selfish claim of those who hit it farther now than when they were younger.  It's what's available under the rules of golf.  No shame in that.

 

I would like to point out that you yourself have shown that hitting the ball farther is a skill:

 

"So .... my hand is forced.  Continue to hit the downward aoa low fade that’s infinitely controllable ,( sitting on 78% fairways hit right now for the year )  or tilt and launch it and hope it stays in bounds. "

 

So, you choose to throttle back with the same equipment as you lack the confidence or skill to hammer away and are unwilling to take the risk.  Nothing wrong with that as I would expect 78% fairways is quite competitive. 

78% fairways but 40 yards back is not competitive. 6 years ago I started playing in a Regional inter-club team competition. I wasn’t that long, about 240 yards with driver, but still one of the longer players at my club. Course is short and tight and doesn’t really encourage bombs. It wasn’t until I started playing in this competition that I realised how short I was. I was mid-40s and guys in their 60s were blasting it 25 yards past me. My serviceable, controllable fade was costing me so I booked a lesson solely with the goal of learning to hit a draw with the driver. As someone whose hit a baby fade all my life, it was not an easy lesson to learn. First thing the pro did was get me to drop my hands at the top of my backswing so that I could swing more from the inside, but more importantly this allowed me to swing up on the ball. It took ages to get it right and I spent months blocking shots out to the right. Eventually, I started to get on top of it and added 30 yards when I got it right. I’m nowhere near consistent enough with it now to use it as my gaming drive, but if the fairway is wide enough then I know that I have the potential to hit it 30 yards longer...and that’s 50 yards further than I hit it in my 20s.

[bladehunter]

21 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Fred Couples

 

2019 Driving distance: 294 yards

 

1989 Driving Distance: 273 Yards

Yes.  There are more examples than I can post.  Nearly everyone who’s a pro hits it farther from age 40-65 then they did at 30.  It goes against the laws of nature.  But it’s not just golf.  “ tech “ allows those to not age out of a lot of things.  But that’s a slippery subject . 

[physasst]

21 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Ian Poulter suggested on FB post that a way to put a governor on huge drives  is have a minimum loft spec on the driver. The positive AOA swing loses steam if driver loft stays at 8* or more or so he says. I think it is a fair idea.

I wouldn't think this would work? I mean, it's not loft of the club, but rather spin loft and dynamic loft that matter right? I mean let's say you have a mandated minimum loft, the pros will just adjust their swings to compensate and hit the dynamic loft that they desire. Mark Crossfield did something on this a few days ago. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong on this...

 

[bladehunter]

Just now, mahonie said:

78% fairways but 40 yards back is not competitive. 6 years ago I started playing in a Regional inter-club team competition. I wasn’t that long, about 240 yards with driver, but still one of the longer players at my club. Course is short and tight and doesn’t really encourage bombs. It wasn’t until I started playing in this competition that I realised how short I was. I was mid-40s and guys in their 60s were blasting it 25 yards past me. My serviceable, controllable fade was costing me so I booked a lesson solely with the goal of learning to hit a draw with the driver. As someone whose hit a baby fade all my life, it was not an easy lesson to learn. First thing the pro did was get me to drop my hands at the top of my backswing so that I could swing more from the inside, but more importantly this allowed me to swing up on the ball. It took ages to get it right and I spent months blocking shots out to the right. Eventually, I started to get on top of it and added 30 yards when I got it right. I’m nowhere near consistent enough with it now to use it as my gaming drive, but if the fairway is wide enough then I know that I have the potential to hit it 30 yards longer...and that’s 50 yards further than I hit it in my 20s.

100% ..... what it’s basically done is took the naturally gifted athlete out of it.  And replaced him with the guy who spends hours on trackman maximizing.  That persons may also be a gifted athlete. But he can no longer just wake up and hit the ball. He now has to learn 2 swings at least.  One down and one up.   

[bscinstnct]

5 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yes.  There are more examples than I can post.  Nearly everyone who’s a pro hits it farther from age 40-65 then they did at 30.  It goes against the laws of nature.  But it’s not just golf.  “ tech “ allows those to not age out of a lot of things.  But that’s a slippery subject . 

 

Its a remarkable stat that Couples hits it over 20 yards farther at 60 years old than when he was 30.

 

273 yards at age 30

294 yards at age 60

 

It ain’t better fitness makin him hit the ball that far ; )

 

 

[miamistomp]

 I doubt BAD is using steroids but if he is he needs a better DR.

   Equipoise or Anavar  like baseball players use builds more lean muscle than whatever put on all that belly fat

  

Edited October 15, 2020 by miamistomp

[Nard_S]

2 minutes ago, physasst said:

I wouldn't think this would work? I mean, it's not loft of the club, but rather spin loft and dynamic loft that matter right? I mean let's say you have a mandated minimum loft, the pros will just adjust their swings to compensate and hit the dynamic loft that they desire. Mark Crossfield did something on this a few days ago. 

 

Maybe I'm wrong on this...

 

Without watching the clip, I will later, I would think a PGA veteran would know, just saying. Bryson did not drop to 5* for no reason. He also suggested 45.5" on length ought to be implemented. Mind you, he's not angry at Bryson or other bombers, long guys would be long guys with steel, persimmon & balata.