Can forgiveness become a bad thing?

[nsxguy]

46 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

You’re a 15 enamored with 300 yard drives and 180 yard 7 irons? Do you hit those regularly or just hoping to?  Just curious as I have never ever met one of those.

 

Pretty funny eh ?

 

Perhaps it's just my perception but "lashing" at the ball implies, to me anyway, an uncontrolled swing. It's not the same as swinging "easy" or "hard".

 

So he's "lashing" at the ball but uses smaller heads to focus more ? Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,

[setter02]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Pretty funny eh ?

 

Perhaps it's just my perception but "lashing" at the ball implies, to me anyway, an uncontrolled swing. It's not the same as swinging "easy" or "hard".

 

So he's "lashing" at the ball but uses smaller heads to focus more ? Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,

 

I would also add that it could be the difference between a swinger and a hitter.  Do you swing through the ball or hit at the ball?  I could interpret a hitter as a lasher as well as the uncontrolled swing.

 

I can get this way when I get a bit too focused on the ball and impact vs. making a good swing.

[Bucken77]

The simple answer is no

[nsxguy]

10 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

I would also add that it could be the difference between a swinger and a hitter.  Do you swing through the ball or hit at the ball?  I could interpret a hitter as a lasher as well as the uncontrolled swing.

 

I can get this way when I get a bit too focused on the ball and impact vs. making a good swing.

 

You can interpret it any way you like - just as I did.

 

I'm still trying to figure out how someone complains about someone else "conveniently leaving out part of the story" and then leaves out 4 years between a 4.7 handicap index and an 18. 

 

I mean a 4.7 index, even having never picked up a club in 3 years, playing on an easy course and losing 13 balls ???  

 

Not that I'd ever be out of golf that long sans a significant health issue but I'd like to think that wouldn't happen to me - butt who knows ? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[llewol007]

Don’t get caught up in the whole blades are for better player and GI irons are for beginners. Clubs is such a personal thing that you will probably go through theee or four sets before you start to realize what you like. When I started playing, I loved blades for the pure aspect of getting instant feedback on if I’m hitting it well. Between then and now I’ve owned probably 20 sets of golf clubs both with GI in the design and others with nothing but a solid mass of metal. I’ve also hit combo sets of both. Try different ones and see what performs for you but also looks and sounds good. Believe it or not, that is also something to take into consideration when looking for clubs. 

[rainkingjr]

I've been playing a long time. For me personally, I prefer a smaller clubhead overall which doesn't necessarily mean unforgiving. Some of todays designs with the use of tungsten, etc.. have produced exceptionally stable player's irons. From my own experience, the biggest factor for me is the sole of the l club. Turf interaction for any specific swing is key in my opinion. That's just me. Others may feel differently.

[LeoLeo99]

I equate blades more to my old wooden Wilson Jack Kramer Pro Staff tennis racquet than anything modern.  New blades have a little more technology than back in the 70s.  

 

I play G400 irons and the extra forgiveness kicks in about 4 times a round.  They help hide small mistakes.  

[RxGolf1]

I upgraded from GI irons to players distance irons this year and I instantly noticed how much better turf interaction is with smaller soles. The chunky wide soled GI irons would sometimes prevent me from taking a nice clean divot. 

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

7 hours ago, braincramp52 said:

 

I play almost all my golf at primarily 2 clubs. The Club Champion at one is a +1 and plays G410 irons. The other is a scratch and plays older FG59 Wilson blades. 

So SGI clubs ARE better. I KNEW IT. 

 

All kidding aside, forgiveness for me is losing less distance on toe or thin strikes. And that works with those designs. 
But I can’t look at them, so I play clubs „designed for low single hcps“. Which is a bullcrap statement. I shoot in the 90‘s currently and no club design will shave enough strokes off my scores to make me a single handicapper. The turnout is too little and looks are very important to me, so I accept the distance loss on the bad strikes. 

[chipa]

2 hours ago, Shilgy said:

You’re a 15 enamored with 300 yard drives and 180 yard 7 irons? Do you hit those regularly or just hoping to?  Just curious as I have never ever met one of those.

 

To be honest that was about 10 years ago before I took a break from gold. Still, since my clubhead speed was measured in the 120's I have been able to hit it over 300 yards pretty consistently and had my h.c to single digits playing from the back tees. However, I was horrible with wedges and chipping. I also played a hook.

 

Fast forward to the present and since I am still pretty active at 55 years old I still have the tendency to lash at the ball and now my back hurts more than it did. I clearly have a disconnect between my brain and my body because the brain still thinks I'm 25. Playing blades requires me to relax and do an easier swing. This is my experience and I can't speak for anyone else.

 

 

[nsxguy]

57 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

To be honest that was about 10 years ago before I took a break from gold. Still, since my clubhead speed was measured in the 120's I have been able to hit it over 300 yards pretty consistently and had my h.c to single digits playing from the back tees. However, I was horrible with wedges and chipping. I also played a hook.

 

Fast forward to the present and since I am still pretty active at 55 years old I still have the tendency to lash at the ball and now my back hurts more than it did. I clearly have a disconnect between my brain and my body because the brain still thinks I'm 25. Playing blades requires me to relax and do an easier swing. This is my experience and I can't speak for anyone else.

 

 

 

So when you pick up a blade your brain knows you're 55,,,,, but when you pick up something else it thinks you're still 25 ?  

 

[bombs]

My view is it depends what type of golf you want to play. 

 

Forgiving clubs will help you to play the best possible golf right now. But there are trade off's. 

 

Less forgiving clubs will give you more shot feedback, that if used correctly can improve your game over time. Be mindful that if you go this route may get worse before you get better. 

[chipa]

27 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

So when you pick up a blade your brain knows you're 55,,,,, but when you pick up something else it thinks you're still 25 ?  

 

 

Good grief 😉

 

I feel like most pros nowadays feel more at ease taking a lash at the driver compared to when drivers were the size of a small orange.

 

Anyway I have found a solution which is what we golfers do getting equipment that we feel will help us the best.

 

 

[Fairway14]

30 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

 

 

I feel like most pros nowadays feel more at ease taking a lash at the driver compared to when drivers were the size of a small orange.

 

 

 

 

 

This is true, no doubt about it. And for that reason I admire the Tour pros who shot low scores using steel shafted persimmon woods.

 

[chippa13]

1 hour ago, chipa said:

 

Good grief 😉

 

I feel like most pros nowadays feel more at ease taking a lash at the driver compared to when drivers were the size of a small orange.

 

Anyway I have found a solution which is what we golfers do getting equipment that we feel will help us the best.

 

 

Congratulations, it takes a lot for someone to admit they are mentally weak.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, chipa said:

 

Good grief 😉

 

 

My thought exactly,,,,,,,,,,

[chipa]

1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

Congratulations, it takes a lot for someone to admit they are mentally weak.

 

Actually it's quite a common Catholic trait.

[kizzy911]

Forgiveness is not a bad thing.

Ego is bad thing

 

 

[chipa]

6 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Pretty funny eh ?

 

Perhaps it's just my perception but "lashing" at the ball implies, to me anyway, an uncontrolled swing. It's not the same as swinging "easy" or "hard".

 

So he's "lashing" at the ball but uses smaller heads to focus more ? Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,

 

My friend I think you are getting there. 🙂 Yes I make lashing uncontrolled swings at times so having an unforgiving club helps me refrain from doing that (at times) at least with the irons.

[Fairway14]

Golf equipment companies have misled consumers. Specifically. the club design engineers employed by Callaway, Ping, Titlieist, TaylorMade, Mizuno etc...hang their hats on computer modeling data which reveals a larger head size club produces better shots from mishits. 

But if a larger head causes more mishit shots than a smaller head, is the larger head truly "more forgiving"? The answer is no, and that is why so many posts within this thread are from players proclaiming they strike better shots with a relatively small head.

 

[raaandy]

2 hours ago, kizzy911 said:

Forgiveness is not a bad thing.

Ego is bad thing

 

 

Personally I think this is the bigger question. 

Bigger, chunkier, “more forgiving” irons might help my miss, but they get my ego fired up...which causes problems. 
 

In my view, smaller heads take the ego out of the equation (sounds backwards, but my brain thinks it’s fine). I know I need to be ON, otherwise, I’m dead. 

[chippa13]

1 hour ago, chipa said:

 

My friend I think you are getting there. 🙂 Yes I make lashing uncontrolled swings at times so having an unforgiving club helps me refrain from doing that (at times) at least with the irons.

Now it is just getting silly.

[bladehunter]

15 hours ago, chipa said:

 

To be honest that was about 10 years ago before I took a break from gold. Still, since my clubhead speed was measured in the 120's I have been able to hit it over 300 yards pretty consistently and had my h.c to single digits playing from the back tees. However, I was horrible with wedges and chipping. I also played a hook.

 

Fast forward to the present and since I am still pretty active at 55 years old I still have the tendency to lash at the ball and now my back hurts more than it did. I clearly have a disconnect between my brain and my body because the brain still thinks I'm 25. Playing blades requires me to relax and do an easier swing. This is my experience and I can't speak for anyone else.

 

 

Yes. Big ball vs small ball.  And it is a mental setting.  Scalpel vs sledge hammer.   

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

Golf equipment companies have misled consumers. Specifically. the club design engineers employed by Callaway, Ping, Titlieist, TaylorMade, Mizuno etc...hang their hats on computer modeling data which reveals a larger head size club produces better shots from mishits. 

But if a larger head causes more mishit shots than a smaller head, is the larger head truly "more forgiving"? The answer is no, and that is why so many posts within this thread are from players proclaiming they strike better shots with a relatively small head.

 

Aha.  This guy ^ is actually think about this. Chicken or the egg?  I can’t get anyone to think about it this way.   But you’re onto the truth.   
 

flat driving range mat , big and wide may rule.  But golf isn’t played there.  

Edited November 2, 2020 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

14 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

So when you pick up a blade your brain knows you're 55,,,,, but when you pick up something else it thinks you're still 25 ?  

 

I’ll regret this reply i know. But....

 

i identify with his statement.  Give me forgiveness and I instantly and instinctively want to hit it harder and farther.  I don’t know why.  But it’s quite detrimental to your game.   It’s The “ because I can” thing.  If I know a 9 iron “ can “ fly 175 on a max swing ... and I pull a 173 yardage I’m going to try to nuke the springy 9.  Vs normally where that’s a smooth 7 iron all day every day unless massive downhill or wind. 
 

I think it’s for several reasons.  One - ego.  My ego comes into it when I have the launcher type irons in the bag. If I’m not hitting less club , what’s the point of carrying them ?  Right ?   And 2.  Spin.  You need to hit these irons harder to get them to spin.  Spin is control.  Faster players aren’t thinking  release. We’re thinking carry only.  Ball will be dead where it lands , even on dry greens with a 5 iron down if I’m playing an MB.  Because of spin. Seeing a 9 iron fly 160  and then roll isn’t forgiveness. Or distance control . So you try to hit it higher and harder for the stopping power.  
 

and no this isn’t a fall over swing.  It’s just a hard swing.  Most good players are going about  80 % on most irons swings. Which I know someone will say booo too.  But it’s true.  Distance irons make me swing harder.  It’s not an isolated though as you Can see. Folks are being honest whne they say this.  It’s been said too many  times by too many people who aren’t just copying each other. 

[Tree Levino]

OP, the 716 CB is actually quite a “forgiving” iron. Low CG, reasonably centred sweet spot, tungsten weighting forged into the head, high MOI, and a slim sole that won’t interfere with you getting to the back of the ball. I played them for quite a while and can say they are easily as forgiving as some bigger clubs. 
 

I broke par for the first time this year with blades. I’ve also broken par with small players CBs. There isn’t a massive difference to be honest. Some for sure, but not tons. Make sure the shaft you have fits and your lie is correct. Stick with your clubs and find a good coach. 

[MtlJeff]

8 hours ago, chippa13 said:

Now it is just getting silly.

 

No it's just like every other thread similar to this one

 

Guys are basically suggesting that Game Improvement clubs take over your body the same way Dr Octopus's mechanical limbs did, severing the part of your cortex that deals with concentration, thus forcing you to into hitting bad shots. 

 

As i said in the other (and other, and other) threads, there are degrees of truth in many things said, but we tend to extrapolate them to comical proportions to satisfy our confirmation bias

 

a 6 yard difference in strikes becomes "I overshoot greens by 40yards!" , and not liking the way an offset club looks becomes "They force me not to concentrate!"

 

 

[bladehunter]

3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

No it's just like every other thread similar to this one

 

Guys are basically suggesting that Game Improvement clubs take over your body the same way Dr Octopus's mechanical limbs did, severing the part of your cortex that deals with concentration, thus forcing you to into hitting bad shots. 

 

As i said in the other (and other, and other) threads, there are degrees of truth in many things said, but we tend to extrapolate them to comical proportions to satisfy our confirmation bias

 

a 6 yard difference in strikes becomes "I overshoot greens by 40yards!" , and not liking the way an offset club looks becomes "They force me not to concentrate!"

 

 

You’re not wrong Jeff.  But isn’t the opposite true too ?  The “ I put g410 Irons in the bag and my handicap dropped 8 shots last week “ guys.  There’s literally a thread saying just that on the first page now.  
 

bottom line is play what suits you.  That’s what will be forgiving to YOU. Right ?  

[Fairway14]

3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

 

 

Guys are basically suggesting that Game Improvement clubs take over your body the same way Dr Octopus's mechanical limbs did, severing the part of your cortex that deals with concentration, thus forcing you to into hitting bad shots. 

 

 

 

 

 

Some guys claim "focus improves with a smaller head" but not me. I've played lots of rounds of golf with the  largest head designs and also the smallest heads with no difference in terms of focus and, or, concentration.

What I do notice is that the larger the head size , the harder the club is to square at impact, especially from less than ideal lies.

Consider the fact that players struggle to play good shots with a driver from the fairway. The reason for this is that without a tee, a 300CC to 460 CC size head is hard to square at impact. The same is true for irons, as the head size becomes larger the club becomes more bulky to swing, square at impact. This is a key factor of club design which engineers and their computer models ignore.

 

[MtlJeff]

2 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

You’re not wrong Jeff.  But isn’t the opposite true too ?  The “ I put g410 Irons in the bag and my handicap dropped 8 shots last week “ guys.  There’s literally a thread saying just that on the first page now.  
 

bottom line is play what suits you.  That’s what will be forgiving to YOU. Right ?  

 

Oh yeah i agree, the "immediate improvement threads" can also become high comedy... posts where it's like "i cut 1/4 of an inch of my driver shaft and went from hitting 0 fairways a round to now hitting 14"....or "I swing so poorly with 460cc drivers i would often just swing and miss the ball entirely, but since i went to 445cc it's nothing but 275yd  fades down the middle"

 

Obviously i'm exaggerating now, but you get the idea

 

I believe in the launch science and stuff, i mean there are differences. And guys SHOULD play what they are most comfortable with as you say.