Any correlation between CC membership and being an elite Junior?

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, MB19 said:

By the time I was 14 I figured out that my dad groomed me to be a catcher because he, indeed, probably hated me.  J/K (kinda)

 

But for real, new catchers gear must be bought about as often as new clubs--I must have gone through 3 sets from the time I was 8-13.  A new catcher's mitt every other year, in addition to either an OF or IF and possibly a 1B glove.  Heavy azz equipment bag in and out of the park, having a sweaty ump on your back in the summer heat... foul tips to the throat, noggin, throwing shoulder and cup.  Being on-deck with your shin guards still on, not sure if you want to bat so you can take them off or not bad so you don't have to.  Man, that's a bum gig for a little kid!  Expensive, sweaty, painful.

 

My permanent conversion to OF was a vacation, although some see it as banishment.

Seriously, my son is a catcher and I swear he’s only ever on deck with two outs so the shin guards are always on. 

[MB19]

17 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Seriously, my son is a catcher and I swear he’s only ever on deck with two outs so the shin guards are always on. 

Seems standard to me--always a can't-win situation.

 

Whenever I would see Bonds take off his various guards after drawing a walk, I determined he actually wore them just to tilt the opposing battery that much more.

[kekoa]

On 12/11/2020 at 7:05 AM, heavy_hitter said:

Move to Florida.  Cheap cost of living and there are great CC options at low cost.  Best part is if you live on the course you can fish on the course.  We pay around $7000 a year and that includes a trail fee so we can play anytime.

Wait, did you say we can fish?  🙂

[Bizzle80]

Hey kekoa...In socal as well. I joined a pretty pricey club because I wanted to and I could afford it - barely. Club was for me, but my daughter and her game have reaped the benefits. Hard playing public in LA and SoCal. 

 

Id say for our region it’s worth it.  Practice facilities. Hop on and off whenever. No tee times. Just show up and go. We loop a few holes at least 3-4 afternoons a week and it’s my daughters (and mine) favorite place to be now. I don’t really care if she plays competitively in the future...but the game is in her blood now and I think the access is key.

 

everyone at the club knows her now too...so she gets positive feedback from an entire community.  That can’t hurt for a kids well being.  

 

Going thru covid, I realize it’s been some of the best money I’ve spent. The time we have had together out there is irreplaceable.

[kekoa]

6 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

Hey kekoa...In socal as well. I joined a pretty pricey club because I wanted to and I could afford it - barely. Club was for me, but my daughter and her game have reaped the benefits. Hard playing public in LA and SoCal. 

 

Id say for our region it’s worth it.  Practice facilities. Hop on and off whenever. No tee times. Just show up and go. We loop a few holes at least 3-4 afternoons a week and it’s my daughters (and mine) favorite place to be now. I don’t really care if she plays competitively in the future...but the game is in her blood now and I think the access is key.

 

everyone at the club knows her now too...so she gets positive feedback from an entire community.  That can’t hurt for a kids well being.  

 

Going thru covid, I realize it’s been some of the best money I’ve spent. The time we have had together out there is irreplaceable.

I totally get it.  I could probably afford a club around here as well, but just don't feel like it right now if that makes sense.  During these covid times we are able to hop on a local course for $25 for both of us.  Only issue is we need to tee off later in the afternoon only allowing for about 12-13 holes.  Normally, we play a few and then practice putting/chipping on one hole.  Some days we don't see anyone on the course.  Its amazing how many golfers won't play a course if you have to walk.  So far its been great and we also do out about 4 times a week.  We went to one of the more moderately priced clubs last weekend and it was a zoo.  We teed off at 1 and only finished about 14 holes.  If my kid keeps playing and improving, I know a membership is inevitable.

[Bizzle80]

11 hours ago, kekoa said:

I totally get it.  I could probably afford a club around here as well, but just don't feel like it right now if that makes sense.  During these covid times we are able to hop on a local course for $25 for both of us.  Only issue is we need to tee off later in the afternoon only allowing for about 12-13 holes.  Normally, we play a few and then practice putting/chipping on one hole.  Some days we don't see anyone on the course.  Its amazing how many golfers won't play a course if you have to walk.  So far its been great and we also do out about 4 times a week.  We went to one of the more moderately priced clubs last weekend and it was a zoo.  We teed off at 1 and only finished about 14 holes.  If my kid keeps playing and improving, I know a membership is inevitable.

 

If you have a public you can loop around like that...then totally worth just maximizing. In LA there is just no access like that at any muni's.

 

Afternoons at our club are pretty empty during the week and even weekends. I take my daughter out after zoom school anyways...so stepping on the tee around 3pm. I like the club setting as we can make all kinds of loops at our club with no concern anyone will get upset. We also have a good range with Trackman at every station...my daughter loves seeing instant feedback on her yardage...and a nice big short game area thats always empty. Ultimately every one of these clubs are so different so its hard to compare.

 

There is no right or wrong on club membership...only what works for you guys.

 

[kekoa]

51 minutes ago, Bizzle80 said:

 

If you have a public you can loop around like that...then totally worth just maximizing. In LA there is just no access like that at any muni's.

 

Afternoons at our club are pretty empty during the week and even weekends. I take my daughter out after zoom school anyways...so stepping on the tee around 3pm. I like the club setting as we can make all kinds of loops at our club with no concern anyone will get upset. We also have a good range with Trackman at every station...my daughter loves seeing instant feedback on her yardage...and a nice big short game area thats always empty. Ultimately every one of these clubs are so different so its hard to compare.

 

There is no right or wrong on club membership...only what works for you guys.

 

Sounds like a certain club near rancho park? if so that place is amazing!!!!

[leezer99]

I used to think CC kids were soft because our muni kids would whoop up on them during every PGA Jr League event. Have since realized that the better juniors at CC’s just don’t bother with PGA Jr League. 

[hollabachgt]

You don't have to be a member at a CC to be a good junior golfer, but it does help tremendously.

 

My brother and I grew up at a CC. During the summers we would be dropped off at the club in the morning and picked up in the evening. The members and staff all knew us and would call our parents if we stepped out of line. It was a safe space for us and we could practice and play a lot.  I'd imagine that would not have been possible at a public course, as you don't have the same close relationships with those around you. That being said, even at a country club, I'm not sure if you would do that in todays world. 

 

I played on a really, really good high school program, we won 6 straight state championships and nearly every one that came out of my high school during that time went on to play D1 golf somewhere, and nearly everyone on the team was also a member somewhere. It was pretty common that after team practice we'd all split up and race to our home courses to play or beat balls until it was too dark to see. It was a big advantage to have those resources. 

 

Is it possible to recreate that without the CC? Yes, but it is a bit more challenging. 

[kekoa]

On 12/19/2020 at 6:51 AM, hollabachgt said:

You don't have to be a member at a CC to be a good junior golfer, but it does help tremendously.

 

My brother and I grew up at a CC. During the summers we would be dropped off at the club in the morning and picked up in the evening. The members and staff all knew us and would call our parents if we stepped out of line. It was a safe space for us and we could practice and play a lot.  I'd imagine that would not have been possible at a public course, as you don't have the same close relationships with those around you. That being said, even at a country club, I'm not sure if you would do that in todays world. 

 

I played on a really, really good high school program, we won 6 straight state championships and nearly every one that came out of my high school during that time went on to play D1 golf somewhere, and nearly everyone on the team was also a member somewhere. It was pretty common that after team practice we'd all split up and race to our home courses to play or beat balls until it was too dark to see. It was a big advantage to have those resources. 

 

Is it possible to recreate that without the CC? Yes, but it is a bit more challenging. 

Great insight.  Thanks for that.

 

As I think about it more, the best way to get the most out of a membership is to live on a course like a few of you guys do.   I know two guys that live on a course and their kids get to play, chip, putt, fish or whatever they want to do each and every day.  One kid literally walks down a hill and he is at the driving range.  The other kid has to take a golf cart a few blocks and he is at the course.  I guess its no wonder both the kids have improved significantly over the last few years.   My son used to beat these kids rather easily, but now they are both really good.  Only reason I can see for the improvement is a membership and ability to practice daily.  

[Ray Jackson]

My 2 cents.....we were members of a club in Northern California that had some access issues for junior golfers and we lived a 20 minute drive from it. My son was 9-11yrs old when we were there and he had a couple of juniors as friends. He was there on weekend days for most of each day. He progressed ok, didn't have many lessons, was just having fun.

 

We moved to Dallas metro area in May 2020, joined another club where juniors can play anytime and it is 5 minutes golf cart ride from the house. He has more juniors as friends and 2 of them are older teenagers who compete across the country. Another one is a D1 golfer at Seton Hall. He now has 12hrs of formal instruction a month and hangs at the club all day most days a week after remote school work is done. He has progressed a lot in 9 months and we haven't started the fitness/flexibility/strength side yet really. 

 

The access to affordable instruction, being around top tier players he can relate to who want to be with him also and of course access to practice facilities has been key when combined together. 

 

I don't think you need to have a CC membership necessarily if you can replicate the above. His instruction is in a warehouse but with Trackman/GC Quad, SAM putting etc. 

Perhaps practicing with the right crowd to drag him/her along is harder if its not the same facility each day/week.

 

My son (12) plays against the college kid, other teens who are all better/bigger than him, but he wants to beat them and he practices and pays attention to his swing with the goal to achieve that. Against the teens he plays straight up but off different tees. The college kid gives him a few strokes per nine. 

 

I help him between sessions with his coach, but stick to the plan by the coach. I am a decent player and attend some his coaching sessions to hear what they are working on to be able to keep eyes on him. My son has all of the resources now but its up to him to continue to put in the work in the right way, not necessarily just the hours. I encourage him but also point out the bad decisions on the course when we play together, he's 12 so of course he knows everything 🙂

 

We're learning about how to navigate the tournaments in Texas and play in the right ones and build his golf resume now. 2021 is the first serious year for that.

Its all a lot of work and I am fortunate that i work predominantly from home. 

 

Sorry for going off topic at times......

[ebk]

On 12/2/2020 at 1:25 PM, kekoa said:

Yup @tiger1873.  We live in Orange County where junior access is a bit difficult.  No real junior programs or rates to speak of.  We normally have to drive about 30 minutes to munis where we can get YOC discounts to play or driving range.   On normal days, we head out to a higher end public course where we get a discount of $35 for play after 3pm.  This allows us to get 9 holes in walking only.

 

Palm Springs has a ridiculous number of courses available to play at various price ranges.  My buddy just joined a course that has 36 holes for $450/month, free carts for a year and a great practice area.  The course is only 12 minutes from his house so it makes sense.

The world #1 ranked female am (and also #1 ranked junior) is from Orange County.  Oak Creek Golf Club in Irvine.  Public.  Great practice facility.  Good junior program (Many D1 golfers came out of that program).  Seems kid friendly (my only “Complaint” is that the range is always full because of so many kids (I think it’s fantastic, actually).  Quarterfinals of US Women’s Am 2020 pitted two Oak Creek golfers against one another.

Edited January 5, 2021 by ebk

[MB19]

1 hour ago, ebk said:

The world #1 ranked female am (and also #1 ranked junior) is from Orange County.  Oak Creek Golf Club in Irvine.  Public.  Great practice facility.  Good junior program (Many D1 golfers came out of that program).  Seems kid friendly (my only “Complaint” is that the range is always full because of so many kids (I think it’s fantastic, actually).  Quarterfinals of US Women’s Am 2020 pitted two Oak Creek golfers against one another.

This reminds me of the old argument in HS where I grew up in suburban Detroit.  If your kid is a great basketball player, do you gain anything athletically by taking them out of one of the Flint or Detroit public schools (Detroit Southwestern or Pershing) and send them to a private school (Detroit Country Day)?  I think this brings us back to access.  As long as kids have ready access to facilities, peers to drive competition and coaching--they're good to go if they have clubs and balls.  

 

One thing a living on a golf course will provide is access.  I can walk out of my backyard, and I'm looking at a 110 yard approach with a fairway bunker to my immediate left and a green complex with bunkers to the front, left and rear. Pretty great, yes, and convenient my kids are 19 months apart with the girl being older--they hit similar enough distances and play the same USKG Tournament yardages.  But is that enough?  Can these bogie golfers drive enough competition with one another to push them under 40, or even to par?  Hard to say, but there's sure no junior champions there right now to drive competition at this moment and just one kid who has had major junior success over the past 8-10 years and he was so burned out that he had to be begged to play for the local HS team his senior year.

 

Does the kind of access I have beat living an hour south of here in Palm Beach where the competition is stiff? There are like four boys and five girls my kids age who are legit threats to shoot par or better any given tournament, and they just drive competition for one another continuing to get better and better.  Sure, it would be great to have my kids competing once or twice a week against all those kids who compete in Worlds year-in and year-out--but I give them what I can.  And really, that's what all of us try to do as parents at the end of the day.

[leezer99]

5 hours ago, ebk said:

The world #1 ranked female am (and also #1 ranked junior) is from Orange County.  Oak Creek Golf Club in Irvine.  Public.  Great practice facility.  Good junior program (Many D1 golfers came out of that program).  Seems kid friendly (my only “Complaint” is that the range is always full because of so many kids (I think it’s fantastic, actually).  Quarterfinals of US Women’s Am 2020 pitted two Oak Creek golfers against one another.

 

Rose is very good and pretty much won everything this year.  This weekend my son got to play with her buddy Zoe who just got a full ride to UCLA.  Spoke to her dad for quite a while and learned a ton about navigating junior golf.  Zoe ain't no slouch either, she was top 5 at the Augusta National Women's Am event which ended up costing her dad a new car.  

[kekoa]

8 hours ago, ebk said:

The world #1 ranked female am (and also #1 ranked junior) is from Orange County.  Oak Creek Golf Club in Irvine.  Public.  Great practice facility.  Good junior program (Many D1 golfers came out of that program).  Seems kid friendly (my only “Complaint” is that the range is always full because of so many kids (I think it’s fantastic, actually).  Quarterfinals of US Women’s Am 2020 pitted two Oak Creek golfers against one another.

Yup, thats the course we go to practically everyday.  During the summer my son used to hit balls with a bunch of the kids from local D1 colleges.  I wouldn't say Oak has a good junior program though.  Most of the kids got their game elsewhere and just practice at Oak because its one of the few courses around with grass tees on the range.  Luckily, the staff knows us well so it's been great.  

 

Yesterday my son tells me he's kind of bored of the course already.  That's one of my biggest nightmares in joining a club.  I just tell him there are a lot worse courses he could be practicing at. 

[tiger1873]

6 hours ago, kekoa said:

Yup, thats the course we go to practically everyday.  During the summer my son used to hit balls with a bunch of the kids from local D1 colleges.  I wouldn't say Oak has a good junior program though.  Most of the kids got their game elsewhere and just practice at Oak because its one of the few courses around with grass tees on the range.  Luckily, the staff knows us well so it's been great.  

 

Yesterday my son tells me he's kind of bored of the course already.  That's one of my biggest nightmares in joining a club.  I just tell him there are a lot worse courses he could be practicing at. 

 

If you have a decent course you will never be bored especially if the course has shots you can re-create where you ran into trouble during a tournament. 

 

The biggest thing is the club needs to have a good ratio and times where it is not busy. A lot clubs are so busy you really have no freedom on the course.  Personally I like clubs where they have at least two 18 hole courses and 1 clubhouse.  

 

First club we joined was cheap but basically was a public course that pretended to be a club. They also routinely oversold extra rounds and you could never get a tee time. Also they had 2 club houses and 2 ranges which I thought was great until I found out they like to close them do to staffing and it would be a pain because wife would be at one clubhouse for an event and I couldn't get a tee time at the same location so if we want to have lunch or dinner I would end up driving back forth between clubhouses a lot.

 

New club is everything is in same place and we live in the neighborhood. Much better kids can walk to range and we always have a course open and available. Also great because we can grab a bite to eat after or before a round.

Edited January 6, 2021 by tiger1873

[kekoa]

:Bump:

 

I really wish I joined a club a year ago.  The initiation for courses around me have gone up 15-30% and the courses we used to practice at are packed from sun up to sun down.  Need to move to Florida asap 🤔

[leezer99]

6 hours ago, kekoa said:

:Bump:

 

I really wish I joined a club a year ago.  The initiation for courses around me have gone up 15-30% and the courses we used to practice at are packed from sun up to sun down.  Need to move to Florida asap 🤔

 

Yep, our club doubled their junior initiation and monthly fee.

[iteachgolf]

Lots of people are moving here making home prices ridiculously inflated.  And in the end they will still save money

[leezer99]

13 minutes ago, iteachgolf said:

Lots of people are moving here making home prices ridiculously inflated.  And in the end they will still save money

 

You can blame Zillow for this.  Although they have slowed down, they have been buying up properties all over the place.  Here's a great breakdown from an agent in Vegas: Tik Tok Link

 

 

[golfortennis]

On 12/14/2020 at 7:25 PM, MB19 said:

By the time I was 14 I figured out that my dad groomed me to be a catcher because he, indeed, probably hated me.  J/K (kinda)

 

But for real, new catchers gear must be bought about as often as new clubs--I must have gone through 3 sets from the time I was 8-13.  A new catcher's mitt every other year, in addition to either an OF or IF and possibly a 1B glove.  Heavy azz equipment bag in and out of the park, having a sweaty ump on your back in the summer heat... foul tips to the throat, noggin, throwing shoulder and cup.  Being on-deck with your shin guards still on, not sure if you want to bat so you can take them off or not bad so you don't have to.  Man, that's a bum gig for a little kid!  Expensive, sweaty, painful.

 

My permanent conversion to OF was a vacation, although some see it as banishment.

 

I could never catch.  I had a hard enough time not blinking on a swing when I was umping.  

 

But your foul tips reminds me of one guy on my team growing up.  For anyone who isn't a baseball fan, if you get hit by a pitch, the "rule" is never rub the spot you got hit, because you don't want to show the other team it hurt(obviously a pitch to the head is a different story).  Anyway, we're playing, and the opponent's batter just gets a piece of the pitch, Just enough to change direction.  Nicks our catcher square.  So he is on the ground, writhing in pain, and everyone is very quiet.  Suddenly someone in the crowd yells out, "Don't rub it."   Everyone just lost it.  

 

30 some years later I am to understand he has a few kids, so thankfully the only lasting item is the story.

 

 

[MB19]

2 hours ago, golfortennis said:

 

I could never catch.  I had a hard enough time not blinking on a swing when I was umping.  

 

But your foul tips reminds me of one guy on my team growing up.  For anyone who isn't a baseball fan, if you get hit by a pitch, the "rule" is never rub the spot you got hit, because you don't want to show the other team it hurt(obviously a pitch to the head is a different story).  Anyway, we're playing, and the opponent's batter just gets a piece of the pitch, Just enough to change direction.  Nicks our catcher square.  So he is on the ground, writhing in pain, and everyone is very quiet.  Suddenly someone in the crowd yells out, "Don't rub it."   Everyone just lost it.  

 

30 some years later I am to understand he has a few kids, so thankfully the only lasting item is the story.

 

 

Oh man, that’s a classic!

[GolfSRQ]

On 10/27/2021 at 1:16 AM, kekoa said:

:Bump:

 

I really wish I joined a club a year ago.  The initiation for courses around me have gone up 15-30% and the courses we used to practice at are packed from sun up to sun down.  Need to move to Florida asap 🤔

Come on down. 
We are filling up quickly.   
best decision we ever made was to move here.   

[golfer929]

On 12/14/2020 at 4:52 PM, leezer99 said:

 

We have a bunch of teaching pros at our club.  I wouldn't send my kid to any of them.

 

I heard about one club nearby that is super busy to the point of it being difficult to get a time.  They also kick juniors off the practice range if all the stalls are full and an adult member wants to hit balls.

Why wouldn't you send your kid to them? Too expensive? Not a good instructor?

[2bGood]

In my region, joining a private club is by far the best bang for buck for a junior. Almost all the clubs let juniors in for around $40 month. unlimited golf, typically they can get some free lesson, and free entry into events at the club and in the region events. Our club even pays for some travel expenses to compete regionally or nationally if they need it. If the junior does become 'elite' we typically give them free dues given they are always out playing events, but still need a home club of some kind. The kids don't have to have a parent as a member to join, but it does move them up the waitlist if they do,

 

These are not inexpensive clubs, $35K-$100K to join and then $5K+ in dues per year. The idea is to grow the game so the clubs keep junior fees low enough that money is not the barrier. 

 

I can't imagine a junior can come close to this kind of deal and get to practice and play at quality course as much as they like. The only downside is they won't get prime time tee times. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by 2bGood

[leezer99]

10 hours ago, golfer929 said:

Why wouldn't you send your kid to them? Too expensive? Not a good instructor?

Their specialty is getting old men to hit a draw.  They also aren't a long term solution that I would be interesting in investing my time with.

[MountainKing]

Nope, I was a muni junior and one of the top ranked in the state.  There's also no correlation between that, and future success as a guy who I played against a lot, who was ranked below me (and also a muni golfer), has ended up making a great living on tour.  I haven't made a dime playing the game despite being a better junior player. 

[2bGood]

10 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

Nope, I was a muni junior and one of the top ranked in the state.  There's also no correlation between that, and future success as a guy who I played against a lot, who was ranked below me (and also a muni golfer), has ended up making a great living on tour.  I haven't made a dime playing the game despite being a better junior player. 

This is so true. I kind of get a kick out people declaring their kid is going to the tour because they are good at crazy young ages. It is long journey. 

[golfer929]

13 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Their specialty is getting old men to hit a draw.  They also aren't a long term solution that I would be interesting in investing my time with.

Lol, do you realize that is the bread & butter of every single full swing instructor there is? I can understand them not being a long-term solution and don't want to invest the time just to change.

Edited October 31, 2021 by golfer929

[leezer99]

13 hours ago, golfer929 said:

Lol, do you realize that is the bread & butter of every single full swing instructor there is?

 

Yes, that's the bread and butter of every instructor with a faded ten year old Titleist staff bag that teaches the same swing to an inflexible old man to an ultra flexible junior.  

 

edit: typo

Edited October 31, 2021 by leezer99