Any correlation between CC membership and being an elite Junior?

[kekoa]

Just curious on thoughts about the subject.  My son and I get to play at a lot of local clubs in the area and most of them are filled with very good junior golfers.  Not sure if this is just coincidence or not.  We have looked at joining a few clubs, but the cost and proximity to our house just doesn't make it feasible at this time.  There are about 14 juniors in the circle my son plays with and probably more than half of them are members at some type of club. 

 

 

[leezer99]

FOMO 

 

You don’t need to join a club to be good. Your son is all the proof you should need.

[MPAndreassi]

When I was a junior my family didn’t join somewhere until I was 16. When we did join somewhere there were quite a few good juniors there, but none really “elite.” I think the quality of the juniors at private clubs is just from accessibility. Their parents would drop them off in the morning and pick them up at dinner so they didn’t have to watch them all day. The exposure to it from a young age and the frequency in them being there is what made them good. I played a lot of public golf before my family joined and I wasn’t behind the 8 ball at all. As long as your son is playing he’ll be just fine. 

[heavy_hitter]

I don't think there is.  I think you just need to have access to play.

[wildcatden]

Chicken and egg. Are they good/elite golfers because they are members at a club?  Or are they members at a club because they are good/elite golfers (ie. parents joined after seeing potential/talent)?

 

We are members at a club, but primarily for the "ease of use".  One disadvantage is that we don't necessarily play many other courses.

Edited December 1, 2020 by wildcatden

[heavy_hitter]

1 minute ago, wildcatden said:

 

 

We are members at a club, but primarily for the "ease of use".  One disadvantage is that we don't necessarily play many other courses.

To me that is a huge disadvantage.  

[wildcatden]

1 minute ago, heavy_hitter said:

To me that is a huge disadvantage.  

 

Yeah possibly but not really aware of any studies that could indicate either way at this stage in his game (9YO going on 10YO).  Perhaps when he is a bit older (11-12YO), we need to get some diversity in courses that he plays.  We do on occasion utilize our Youth on Course membership and play some great courses in our area (Poppy Ridge in Livermore for example) so it's not like we never play elsewhere.   And of course, playing in tournaments more will expose us to more courses.

[heavy_hitter]

2 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

Yeah possibly but not really aware of any studies that could indicate either way at this stage in his game (9YO going on 10YO).  Perhaps when he is a bit older (11-12YO), we need to get some diversity in courses that he plays.  We do on occasion utilize our Youth on Course membership and play some great courses in our area (Poppy Ridge in Livermore for example) so it's not like we never play elsewhere.   And of course, playing in tournaments more will expose us to more courses.

 

I think it is important to be exposed to different courses.  

[wildcatden]

4 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

I think it is important to be exposed to different courses.  

 

 

Yeah, I don't disagree. Perhaps the question in my mind is when that is important. From the very beginning (say age 5-6)?  During the TPI "learn to compete" phase (age 7-9)? During the TPI "learn golf skills" phase (age 10-12)?  Or from 13-onwards?   All rough age bracket numbers....

[Abh159]

34 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

I don't think there is.  I think you just need to have access to play.

 

This is the perfect answer to your question @kekoa. The biggest advantage to being a member at a club is it allows for unlimited access, but if you can find that at a public course in your area then it no longer becomes an advantage. You just have to weigh the costs. Sometimes playing 5x a week at a public course is more expensive that joining a private club or vice versa.

 

One of my friends I grew up playing with was one of the few of us that wasn't a member of a private club. He spent all of his time playing and practicing at the public course in our town. He went on to become a PGA Tour player and has kept his card 4 out of the past 5 years.

[PhlashPhace]

I grew up on a muni and we had the top junior in the state for over a decade.  I was the second of them but we had 5 or 6 kids in a row that were at the top of the points list.  

 

The one thing we did have going for us is we were all from families that had the means to send us to tournaments and pay for lessons which I think is more important than the course you play on.

Edited December 1, 2020 by PhlashPhace

[kekoa]

Thanks guys.  Everything makes sense.  Probably the only reason I want to join a club is accessibility and knowing we can just go out and play whenever with unlimited practice.  We have great courses where we live, but they are crowded even will green fees in the $150 range.   

 

I thought my son had an honorary membership locked in at a nice club, but then covid came and the director of golf we were dealing with left 😞

[MB19]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

Thanks guys.  Everything makes sense.  Probably the only reason I want to join a club is accessibility and knowing we can just go out and play whenever with unlimited practice.  We have great courses where we live, but they are crowded even will green fees in the $150 range.   

 

I thought my son had an honorary membership locked in at a nice club, but then covid came and the director of golf we were dealing with left 😞

We joined a local country club on a summer membership, running from May-October, because the cost was $428 out the door.  We had to pay for carts, $13 for 9 holes, but every now and then the head pro (who my kids have taken lessons with since they started last summer) would hook us up by starting a round with us for a few holes and then just have us finish the 9 without him.  Range balls and use of putting/chipping area, of course, were included.  I figured we would need to make about 25 trips out there through the membership to make it worth it, and we made it out about 32 times.  Had it not rained nearly all October (closing the course 20 days that month) we would have used the membership even more.

 

The byproduct of this, of course, is that my kids got a ton of exposure to golf this summer as 7 and 8 y.o. (turned 9 late in membership) juniors.  The pro, whenever he would see us, would try to find time to chat up the kids and encourage them on the range or practice green.  Every now and then, it turned into a mini-lesson.  I'm not sure what the real monetary value of this was, but in terms of their development I am confident the money and time I spent was worth every penny.  

 

And yes, they did get a little tired of playing/practicing at the same course all the time--to a point.  Because we still only play 9, we mixed it up between the front and back 9.  Maybe half of our outings were spent practicing approaches/chipping/putting.  Give them four or five balls from the same spot and just try to stick it close, consistently.  I learned the slow times, and those became our times to do this--an incredible luxury.  Yes, this can also be accomplished at many public courses.  But paying under $500 over the five months to experiment with the same course over and over again was, IMO, a bargain.  In my area, I live very close to perhaps the best public course I have ever played--but they are pretty busy year-round.  Having a summer where the staff got to know us and treat us as members really was nice.

 

I know my kids aren't ready to compete against the most elite junior players in their age group yet, but spending the summer sharpening their game up has gotten them one step closer to doing so.  I wouldn't hesitate to do this again.

[EDT501]

Being a member at a country club is absolutely not a pre-requisite for being a good or great junior golfer. That said, it doesn’t hurt either. The benefits primarily come from the ease of access to a course and a higher likelihood of having other juniors to play against/with. Being able to walk into a decent (doesn’t have to be great by any means) course without a tee time and unlimited access to practice facilities, especially if they have a good short game area, makes it easier. 
 

That said, I’ll take my chances on the disciplined passionate junior who only hits balls in the back yard and putts at the local muni over the disinterested country club kid any day. Just a little bit harder if you’re having to navigate strict tee times and crowded practice greens all the time.

[tiger1873]

All clubs are not equal and that needs to considered before you even join. Many many clubs are not that great and actually a negative.  Believe it or not you may not get a tee time or kids have limited hours on the range or course.

 

Other clubs have really bad courses and you would be better playing at a local muni or have very slow members who take 6 or 7 hours to play a round.

 

The amazing part is the price you pay generally is not the deciding factor. Although a deal that seems to good to be true usually is.

 

We belong to a club and it has been great.  The main benefit we have is the practice facilities are safe and I can leave my kids to practice when ever they want. Saves me a lot time and allows me to work while they practice.  Some public courses are not places I would drop a kid off for the day.  But I also seen others where a kid could play all day and have a blast so it just depends on what is around you.

 

The other huge benefit is after 2pm most days no one is on the course so that means rounds under 3 hours and we can practice a lot different scenarios.

 

To be honest it's a great benefit but not really needed if you have other options.  Clubs have lots of politics and you make a big commitment to join one.  

 

 

 

 

[tiger1873]

18 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

I think it is important to be exposed to different courses.  

 

If you play enough tournaments and travel this starts to become a non issue.  The bigger issue to me is you end up paying for dues on a course you are not using much.

[BloctonGolf11]

At least around my metro area the cost of CC's are such to not being a logical cost benefit return on investment, and my metro area is cheap for CCs. If you are part of an academy or seeing an instructor part of that package should be some kind of preferential treatment or perks when it comes to playing the course. For a fraction of CC dues we get our lesson package and access to a par 3 course for free and a 36 hole championship course for a fraction of normal greens fees. Economically, if you look around most areas you can get access for much cheaper than paying for the inflated costs that are inherent with a CC membership. 

[heavy_hitter]

42 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

If you play enough tournaments and travel this starts to become a non issue.  The bigger issue to me is you end up paying for dues on a course you are not using much.

I don't think this is true.

[James the Hogan Fan]

On my high school team we had two guys who were good. Not elite because no one at our school was elite, but two guys in the scratch-2hcp range. One was a public course guy, lots of natural talent. Played with his equally good dad every weekend, had regular lessons from a good instructor at a local muni.

 

The other belonged to the Castlewood Country Club. (with which I assume @wildcatden would at least be familiar since he mentioned Poppy Ridge.) CC guy was a range rat and had/used the unlimited range balls at his club every day of the summer. He'd have a 2 hour short game session, 2 hour range session, and then 18 holes if he wanted it, whenever he wanted it.

 

The point is it is possible to do both. That being said the better High Schools in our area were the ones that either had school connections to a particular CC or ones whose players did. I think the ease of practice access is the greatest strength of the CC environment for the aspiring Jr.

[Lobby]

C'mon, guys.

Sons / daughters of country club members have WAY more access to golf, at an earlier age, than regular folks.
 

That's why the First Tee was created.

[wildcatden]

51 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

The other belonged to the Castlewood Country Club. (with which I assume @wildcatden would at least be familiar since he mentioned Poppy Ridge.)

 

Junior just played Castlewood (Valley Course) for a USKG tournament recently. Have never played the Hills Course there.  I wish I had better means to be a member at Castlewood.  The practice facilities are awesome and really ideal for a developing junior (grass range, putting/chipping greens, bunker practice greens, two 18-hole courses, etc...). We are members at The Bridges nearby in San Ramon. 

 

One thing to watch for at CC's is that some of them do junior sponsorships into the club. Castlewood has a merit program that sponsors a couple juniors or so per year if I recall correctly.  It has academic and golf requirements.

[tiger1873]

56 minutes ago, Lobby said:

C'mon, guys.

Sons / daughters of country club members have WAY more access to golf, at an earlier age, than regular folks.
 

That's why the First Tee was created.

 

This is simply not true. A lot this depends on where you live.  If you Iive near a resort public course that offers junior membership you might have better access then most kids who live in a Country club.

 

A lot of this depends on where you live for instance I believe Kekoa lives in California.  I would imagine the kids he plays with in Palm Springs have way more access then kids who live in LA or Orange counties. He probaly lives in one the hardest areas to take in a casual round of golf without some level of effort. At least that is what I learned when I left that area.

 

It's all relative to where you live and what's available.  If i was in California I would be looking to move to an area where golf is more accessible but that is not always possible for a lot people.

[kekoa]

Yup @tiger1873.  We live in Orange County where junior access is a bit difficult.  No real junior programs or rates to speak of.  We normally have to drive about 30 minutes to munis where we can get YOC discounts to play or driving range.   On normal days, we head out to a higher end public course where we get a discount of $35 for play after 3pm.  This allows us to get 9 holes in walking only.

 

Palm Springs has a ridiculous number of courses available to play at various price ranges.  My buddy just joined a course that has 36 holes for $450/month, free carts for a year and a great practice area.  The course is only 12 minutes from his house so it makes sense.

[James the Hogan Fan]

2 hours ago, wildcatden said:

 

Junior just played Castlewood (Valley Course) for a USKG tournament recently. Have never played the Hills Course there.  I wish I had better means to be a member at Castlewood.  The practice facilities are awesome and really ideal for a developing junior (grass range, putting/chipping greens, bunker practice greens, two 18-hole courses, etc...). We are members at The Bridges nearby in San Ramon. 

 

One thing to watch for at CC's is that some of them do junior sponsorships into the club. Castlewood has a merit program that sponsors a couple juniors or so per year if I recall correctly.  It has academic and golf requirements.

Hill is worth it if you can get on. Very different vibe and feel from Valley.

 

One thing you can be sure of, if Junior can post a good number at the Bridges he can post a good number anywhere. I happen to really like that course for the challenge and the condition, and the practice facility is not too shabby either.

 

But yeah when my Castlewood friends invited me for a day I was always very jealous of all the stuff they had. Then I would beat them and it would make me feel a lot better!

[wildcatden]

17 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

Hill is worth it if you can get on. Very different vibe and feel from Valley.

 

One thing you can be sure of, if Junior can post a good number at the Bridges he can post a good number anywhere. I happen to really like that course for the challenge and the condition, and the practice facility is not too shabby either.

 

But yeah when my Castlewood friends invited me for a day I was always very jealous of all the stuff they had. Then I would beat them and it would make me feel a lot better!

 

Hoping one day in the future he gets merit sponsored into Castlewood.  It's awesome experiencing courses that we don't normally play.  Is the Hill course similar to Bridges? He can definitely post good numbers at Bridges (a couple of -5's from 1900 yards for 9 holes this fall). I tell him that same thing all the time "post a good number at the Bridges he can post a good number anywhere", but alas, in tournaments golf can be a fickle friend sometimes.

Edited December 2, 2020 by wildcatden

[heavy_hitter]

4 hours ago, Lobby said:

C'mon, guys.

Sons / daughters of country club members have WAY more access to golf, at an earlier age, than regular folks.
 

That's why the First Tee was created.

That is not why first tee was created...  If so First Tee would give all kids access to CC's and it does not.

 

 

[Lobby]

There are millions of folks living on the Gulf Coast who don't have $500 in the bank to escape incoming hurricanes, so they ride them out.  

 

To them, golf is an unthinkable luxury.  

Saying "it's only $450 per month," is really out of touch.   Saying that poor kids have the same access as wealthy kids do is silly.  

[Medson]

4 hours ago, wildcatden said:

 

Junior just played Castlewood (Valley Course) for a USKG tournament recently. Have never played the Hills Course there.  I wish I had better means to be a member at Castlewood.  The practice facilities are awesome and really ideal for a developing junior (grass range, putting/chipping greens, bunker practice greens, two 18-hole courses, etc...). We are members at The Bridges nearby in San Ramon. 

 

One thing to watch for at CC's is that some of them do junior sponsorships into the club. Castlewood has a merit program that sponsors a couple juniors or so per year if I recall correctly.  It has academic and golf requirements.

 

Hehe ... My kid played in the same tournament. Yes, I was jealous. 

 

At least, you get The Bridges that has good membership. We, in East/South Bay, got nothing. 

[leezer99]

25 minutes ago, Medson said:

 

Hehe ... My kid played in the same tournament. Yes, I was jealous. 

 

At least, you get The Bridges that has good membership. We, in East/South Bay, got nothing. 

Are you guys best friends now?!?!  

[tiger1873]

14 hours ago, Lobby said:

There are millions of folks living on the Gulf Coast who don't have $500 in the bank to escape incoming hurricanes, so they ride them out.  

 

To them, golf is an unthinkable luxury.  

Saying "it's only $450 per month," is really out of touch.   Saying that poor kids have the same access as wealthy kids do is silly.  

 

The issue isn't golf  they simply don't make enough money to do much. It be hard pressed to even travel in any sport if you can't pay $450 a month. I don't care if it's football, basketball or baseball it all costs lots of money. Compared to some team sports Golf looks downright cheap.  

 

Poor kids don't have access to a lot things. With golf the biggest issue is you need a supportive parent that is willing to behind you playing.   There are tons of junior programs around the country. If money is an issue there a lots of people who are more then willing to help out too.  Also tournament fee's get waived all the time for kids in need. Most people though can afford them.