The quickest way to lower your handicap index

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Well said.

 

I'll add that for most guys who spray it off the tee they won't shoot any better from forward tees as they will still take the same amount of penalty strokes.

 

The real question is who benefits the most and who gets punished the most by handicap differences between sets of tees?

 

Benefits: Anyone who keeps it in play but has a bad short game?

Punished: Anyone who keeps it in play but has a good short game?

Push: Anyone who sprays it.

 

Curious what you guys think as I might have it backwards.

I would say it can hurt those who spray it. My course is long so rated pretty high, but its also relatively forgiving off the tee so I can get away with spraying it a bit and still reach every hole in regulation. On a short tight course people probably think Im a vanity cap since I'll take more penalties. I would say @pinhigh27is correct, the system focuses too much on length alone

[mgoblue83]

Just now, Krt22 said:

I would say it can hurt those who spray it. My course is long so rated pretty high, but its also relatively forgiving off the tee so I can get away with spraying it a bit and still reach every hole in regulation. On a short tight course people probably think Im a vanity cap since I'll take more penalties. I would say @pinhigh27is correct, the system focuses too much on length alone

Completely agree.

 

My handicap is 2 but I'm a long hitter with a good short game who is prone to spraying it off the tee a few times a round. Put me on a course with OB on every hole and I might shoot 80+ from every tee box (assuming I don't hit irons off the tee).  Put me on a course with no trouble and I will hardly ever shoot worse than par no matter how long it is.

[Zitlow]

Learn how to become proficient with a foot wedge. 

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

It probably will.  I assume the yardage difference would be pretty substantial.  Just check the delta between the CRs.

Yes it’s a pretty big difference but I’ve played from the front box many times with my 12 year old and it’s the same story , iron , iron.  2 putt par.  You just can’t hit driver over 50 plus year old trees in a dogleg.  

[ChaosTheory]

12 hours ago, Obee said:

Didn't/hasn't happened to me at all. Index has been consistent for many years across all sorts of tees. 

That’s interesting.  So what are the strengths and weaknesses of your game?  There would have to be something that lets you score “enough” lower when you move up.  Enough lower to match the difference in CR.  Great short irons and wedges?

Edited December 18, 2020 by Snowman9000

[Obee]

3 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

That’s interesting.  So what are the strengths and weaknesses of your game?  There would have to be something that lets you score “enough” lower when you move up.  Enough lower to match the difference in CR.  Great short irons and wedges?

I'm a 0 to +2 who carries driver 225, so length is a definite weakness. Short game, putting, and wedge/short-iron play are all well(?) below scratch.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Obee

[nsxguy]

Everyone here has been way too simplistic in their reasoning for shooting better or worse moving up or moving back. There are FAR too many facets to the game and how we play to generalize and GUESS as to what and how we'd play from further up or further back.

 

We played an event at my home course once where we all played from 1 tee set up. One of the guys who wasn't playing that morning had stopped by. He left as our first group was on the tee and said "I'll bet everyone shoots the same number". 

 

Frankly, I kinda sorta expected that to be the case excepting maybe a handful of players who'd shoot better by a few strokes. Except for a couple of guys, everybody shot equal to, or better than, their index. IIRC 6 or 7 guys broke par that day. We've seldom had more than 2 break par on a single day - most days nobody did.

 

The thing is, assuming a player is trying to shoot his best score, on a shorter course, even if you spray your driver (on a longer course) you will be hitting 3 wood off the tee to keep it in play and still be hitting the same iron to the green.

 

Or if the hole is fairly wide open your driver will be 30 yards closer so instead of hitting a 6 iron in you're hitting a 9.

 

You're playing an average of about 25-30 yards less on every hole. Scoring better is incremental in nature, measured by a few tenths of a stroke per hole. Add to that the difference in (most) player's game from one day to the next.

 

Below is from the USGA Handicapping Manual, Appendix G. Just read this one paragraph and tell me how we WRX'ers can quantify course ratings better than the guys and gals who do it. 

 

e. Course Rating and Slope Rating

The Course Rating and Slope Rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of the course for the scratch player and the bogey player under normal playing conditions. The effective playing length is determined from the measurement of each hole, adjusted for the impact of roll, wind, elevation changes, altitude, dog-legs and forced lay ups. In addition to the effective playing length, there are 10 obstacle factors evaluated on each hole for both the scratch player and the bogey player. These are: topography; fairway; green target; recoverability and rough; bunkers; crossing obstacles; lateral obstacles; trees; green surface and psychology. The Course Rating System uses table values, adjustments and formulas to calculate ratings.

[pinhigh27]

9 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Everyone here has been way too simplistic in their reasoning for shooting better or worse moving up or moving back. There are FAR too many facets to the game and how we play to generalize and GUESS as to what and how we'd play from further up or further back.

 

We played an event at my home course once where we all played from 1 tee set up. One of the guys who wasn't playing that morning had stopped by. He left as our first group was on the tee and said "I'll bet everyone shoots the same number". 

 

Frankly, I kinda sorta expected that to be the case excepting maybe a handful of players who'd shoot better by a few strokes. Except for a couple of guys, everybody shot equal to, or better than, their index. IIRC 6 or 7 guys broke par that day. We've seldom had more than 2 break par on a single day - most days nobody did.

 

The thing is, assuming a player is trying to shoot his best score, on a shorter course, even if you spray your driver (on a longer course) you will be hitting 3 wood off the tee to keep it in play and still be hitting the same iron to the green.

 

Or if the hole is fairly wide open your driver will be 30 yards closer so instead of hitting a 6 iron in you're hitting a 9.

 

You're playing an average of about 25-30 yards less on every hole. Scoring better is incremental in nature, measured by a few tenths of a stroke per hole. Add to that the difference in (most) player's game from one day to the next.

 

Below is from the USGA Handicapping Manual, Appendix G. Just read this one paragraph and tell me how we WRX'ers can quantify course ratings better than the guys and gals who do it. 

 

e. Course Rating and Slope Rating

The Course Rating and Slope Rating is the evaluation of the playing difficulty of the course for the scratch player and the bogey player under normal playing conditions. The effective playing length is determined from the measurement of each hole, adjusted for the impact of roll, wind, elevation changes, altitude, dog-legs and forced lay ups. In addition to the effective playing length, there are 10 obstacle factors evaluated on each hole for both the scratch player and the bogey player. These are: topography; fairway; green target; recoverability and rough; bunkers; crossing obstacles; lateral obstacles; trees; green surface and psychology. The Course Rating System uses table values, adjustments and formulas to calculate ratings.

It’s more mental IMO. It’s hard mentally to go low . When you’re around scratch you get a couple under par and it’s uncomfortable . It would be like a bogey golfer who pars the first 6 holes. They’re gonna get antsy. It’s a huge plateau for many people to break through 
 

So it’s way easier to be on the edge of comfort zone and be 2 under,70 to shoot a -4 differential on a 74 rated tee than it is to be 4 under and shoot 68 on a 72 rated tee. 
 

 

[b.mattay]

18 hours ago, Obee said:

Didn't/hasn't happened to me at all. Index has been consistent for many years across all sorts of tees. 

I'm the same way! Closer to the hole=better scores, always! 

[b.mattay]

1 hour ago, pinhigh27 said:

It’s more mental IMO. It’s hard mentally to go low . When you’re around scratch you get a couple under par and it’s uncomfortable . It would be like a bogey golfer who pars the first 6 holes. They’re gonna get antsy. It’s a huge plateau for many people to break through 
 

So it’s way easier to be on the edge of comfort zone and be 2 under,70 to shoot a -4 differential on a 74 rated tee than it is to be 4 under and shoot 68 on a 72 rated tee. 
 

 

I always try to remember there are people who have shot -14 in a round, so by comparison being a handful under is peanuts in the grand scheme of things! I think that mindset is really beneficial in being comfortable going low. Nerves can be reserved for when you are double digits under par 😉

[ChaosTheory]

13 hours ago, b.mattay said:

I'm the same way! Closer to the hole=better scores, always! 

I score lower, but not enough to overcome the lower ratings.  So then over time my index goes up.

[Zitlow]

Make sure the pencil you keep score with has an eraser. 😎

[b.mattay]

2 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

I score lower, but not enough to overcome the lower ratings.  So then over time my index goes up.

My point was I find it works very proportionately (for me personally)! If the course rating goes down 3 shots, I will shoot 3 shots lower etc. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by b.mattay

[Obee]

28 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

My point was I find it works very proportionately (for me personally)! If the course rating goes down 3 shots, I will shoot 3 shots lower etc. 

Yup. Same here.

 

I was a +1 or +2 during the competitive season at a course where I mostly played from 74.7/142 and I'm still the same at a course that's 71.3/131

[ThinkingPlus]

I have a similar issue at my home course, but it is directly due to the course layout and my game.  The forward tees are 5425 yards and the white tees are 6150 yards.  The CR delta is roughly 4 strokes.  My index is 1 - 2 strokes lower from the white tees than the forward tees.  Because of the forced layups (canals, penalty areas, and doglegs) approach shots don't change much between the tees.  So except for the par 3s, the clubs into the greens don't really change much for me.  Also the par 5s are generally not reachable from either set of tees because of the forced layups.  Easier for me to shoot 75 from the white tees than 71 from the forward tees, but yields the same differential.  Odd course.

[dubbelbogey]

Since I've been keeping my own stats, I have around 90 rounds where I can look at the data. In my own rounds, I see essentially a flat slope when plotting course distance against score differential. Same for plotting course rating v. differential (not surprising, since distance is pretty closely correlated to course rating.)

 

In other words, moving forwards or back has had no substantial impact on my handicap index.

 

(FWIW, the course ratings have ranged from 117 to 144, with the median rating around 130)

[ThinkingPlus]

1 hour ago, dubbelbogey said:

Since I've been keeping my own stats, I have around 90 rounds where I can look at the data. In my own rounds, I see essentially a flat slope when plotting course distance against score differential. Same for plotting course rating v. differential (not surprising, since distance is pretty closely correlated to course rating.)

 

In other words, moving forwards or back has had no substantial impact on my handicap index.

 

(FWIW, the course ratings have ranged from 117 to 144, with the median rating around 130)

Did you mean slope ratings?

[dubbelbogey]

21 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Did you mean slope ratings?

Ooops. My bad. I did mean course ratings, but must've been tired reading them off my spreadsheet and instead read off the slope ratings. Course ratings ranged from 65.9 to 73.1, with a median of about 70.6

 

[Zitlow]

Play alone and give yourself everything within 10 feet.