The quickest way to lower your handicap index

[ChaosTheory]

Move back a tee box.  Post a bunch of rounds from there.

 

Because of typical course ratings, that's what will happen.  (At least in the US.)  Move back a box, your scores might go up a bit but your index will come down.  Or the opposite: move up a box, you'll probably score lower but will develop a higher index.  This has happened to me several times over the years, at four courses.  (I've moved up or back depending on my group at the time.)  Has anyone else noticed the same?

 

Is this the way the system should work?  It doesn't seem so.  I'm the same golfer yet I can earn vastly different indexes/indices by playing different tees at the same course.  Note, I'm not talking about course handicap.  I'm talking about the index.  If you've never experienced it, you might be surprised at what happens.   A great way for me to sandbag would be to play a lot from a shorter tee box.  Then play a tourney farther back.

 

Maybe I'm just an unusual golfer?  I'm a steady player, always been a little on the short hitting side, you know the type.  Mediocre putter but good at lagging, it doesn't matter much if I'm 40 feet or 12 feet because they are both going to be 2 putts.  currently 11 index. 

Edited December 16, 2020 by Snowman9000

[redwing91007]

This is exactly how I feel about it too. My group usually plays further back than we probably should, but we all have lower indexes because of it. We experimented moving up one and back one too and it had ZERO effect on our scores. 

[TourSpoon]

This is really not the case for me at all. I track my stats and usually play at 6600 yards but occasionally have moved up to 6150 for a little confidence in scoring lower but its relative to course rating. I say that because at my skill level, I can see improvement in proximity to the hole on par 3s, par 5s, and longer par 4s that may go from 420 to 385 making it a much easier hole and higher GIR number. There are 3 holes that I have to gear down to 3 wood and 2 hybrid just to keep from running it out of the fairway but still have wedge or 9 iron left so they are about the same while the rest are just marginally easier. With all that said, I am about 2-3 strokes better just by moving up tees but the course rating is exactly 2 strokes and the differential virtually the same. So taking my last 5 rounds from the Blue tees ranging from 75-82 averaging 79 and then 5 rounds from the men's tees ranging 75-78 I average 77 which is exactly the difference in course rating.  I will note that all my white tee scores were used in handicap calculations while from the blues I have more rounds that don't figure into the mix and I contribute that to some double bogey avoidance from the shorter tees.  Scores from the whites all break 80 while scores from the blues can get up to 85 so I will score worse more often from the blue tees as compared to course rating. 

[MtlJeff]

I don't think i agree with this in all cases, though i can sometimes see that it could be a thing.

 

I used to joke that whenever i needed to get my index down, i'd go play a course here called 4domaines from the tips. It stretched to 7100yds but that was fine because i was driving it 300yds then. It was fairly wide open, and any of the holes that did have trouble the bailouts were always on a side that favored my miss. I couldn't play poorly there. It was like 74 or 75 rating from the tips and i don't think i ever shot above 75 or 76. Had several 72's and 71s

 

But it doesn't always work. I also played a course this year that had a 5700yd men's tee and i destroyed it without even feeling i was playing all that well. I think the rating might have been like 69 or 70 , and i shot 67 on a pretty ho hum day. If you hit it solid and can use hybrid off every tee and hit lob wedges into the green, you shouldn't make bogeys. All you really have to do is birdie 3 par 5's and drive a couple of 270yd par 4s and you have a 67

 

I think it's in the margins where this is "a thing". Like a 6500yd course vs a 6800yd course. I feel like my index would be lower on the longer one

[ZA206]

I agree 100%! That's why I never play the tips at my normal club, I feel like I will have a tougher time shooting my normal scores and if I do I get punished by my cap dropping. In fact, it can seem I played like crap and my cap will STILL drop from back there. No thanks!

 

I actually enjoy occasionally playing the tips at my home club, as I get to hit driver more often. Typically from the blues at 6700, I'll only pull driver 4 or 5 times (lot's of 3W and hybrids off the tee). From the tips (7000) I'll hit driver on 10 holes or so!

 

[gentles]

Different players respond to shorter distance courses in different ways.

 

I'm a relatively long hitter a good putter, but mid-long irons and scrambling are big holes in my game,

 

Playing from the front tees makes a massive difference for me because it means most of the par 4s are now wedges into the green, which even with a bad swing I usually have a putter in hand, which takes a whole lot of pressure off my iron game and scrambling. The 20-30 yards closer on many of those holes makes a massive difference.

 

On longer courses I find myself missing a bunch of greens with longer irons, and then having 8-10' for par all day. At shorter courses I tend to find myself with a lot more easy pars after having wedges in.

 

If I was a shorter hitter but really sharp with mid-long irons and hybrids, going to a longer course wouldn't make as much difference as it does for me currently. If you're hitting those clubs into greens you're going to miss a few and need a really tidy short game which doesn't depend on the length of the course. Sounds like you're more in this camp than mine.

 

Course raters have to find a distinction between distance and scoring, and it obviously can't depend on the individual golfer, meaning there will always be a bias one way or another.

Edited December 16, 2020 by gentles

[ChaosTheory]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

I think it's in the margins where this is "a thing". Like a 6500yd course vs a 6800yd course. I feel like my index would be lower on the longer one

Yes, I agree.  If I moved WAY back, I might not see the same kind of thing.

[ChaosTheory]

7 minutes ago, gentles said:

Different players respond to shorter distance courses in different ways.

 

I'm a relatively long hitter, and my iron play is a big weakness. Playing from the front tees makes a massive difference for me because it means most of the par 4s are now wedges into the green, which takes a whole lot of pressure off my iron game. The 20-30 yards closer on many of those holes makes a massive difference.

 

If I was a shorter hitter but really sharp with mid-long irons and hybrids, going to a longer course wouldn't make as much difference as it does for me currently. If you're hitting those clubs into greens you're going to miss a few and need a really tidy short game which doesn't depend on the length of the course. Sounds like you're more in this camp than mine.

 

When I go play easier shorter courses, those are the rounds that tend to count for my handicap compared to the rounds on longer tougher courses. I'm working hard on my iron game to overcome that of course. 

 

Course raters have to find a distinction between distance and scoring, and it obviously can't depend on the individual golfer, meaning there will always be a bias one way or another.

Okay, and I’m relatively bad with my short irons.  And on first putts outside of say 5 feet.  So moving up doesn’t help me as much as it should.  As far as moving back, I’m decent with hybrids, so it doesn’t hurt as much as it should.  

[rugbydave]

If the rating from the tips is significantly more than the up tees, it'll will likely have a dramatic affect.  At my club, handicaps are all higher from the tips on average.  The blues tees rarely leave more than a 9-iron in.  The tips bring in the 4/5 irons frequently.  

[swagee]

3 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

Move back a tee box.  Post a bunch of rounds from there.

 

Because of typical course ratings, that's what will happen.  (At least in the US.)  Move back a box, your scores might go up a bit but your index will come down.  Or the opposite: move up a box, you'll probably score lower but will develop a higher index.  This has happened to me several times over the years, at four courses.  (I've moved up or back depending on my group at the time.)  Has anyone else noticed the same?

 

Is this the way the system should work?  It doesn't seem so.  I'm the same golfer yet I can earn vastly different indexes/indices by playing different tees at the same course.  Note, I'm not talking about course handicap.  I'm talking about the index.  If you've never experienced it, you might be surprised at what happens.   A great way for me to sandbag would be to play a lot from a shorter tee box.  Then play a tourney farther back.

 

Maybe I'm just an unusual golfer?  I'm a steady player, always been a little on the short hitting side, you know the type.  Mediocre putter but good at lagging, it doesn't matter much if I'm 40 feet or 12 feet because they are both going to be 2 putts.  currently 11 index. 

I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. 
Ur index is a function of ur actual score, course rating and slope rating, as shown below

 

 

I know it looks complicated, but it basically means that if u score the same on different tee boxes, ur score (ESQ-explained below) on the further teebox (higher slop rating) will result in a lower index. 
 

ESQ-Equitable Score Control
Ur actual score is NOT what being used to calculate ur index, but rather the ESQ (the two could be the same). 

ESQ takes into account any anomalies that happen during a round, e.g. hitting 5 balls in the water on the same hole. These anomalies do not reflect ur actual ability, and therefore will be taken out before calculating ur index. 

With ESQ, u are only allowed a maximum score per hole based on ur course hdc, see table below.

 

So, u have it.

I hope it helps.

Or not 😂😂

Cheers

 

 

Edited December 16, 2020 by swagee

[Myherobobhope]

3 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

 

Is this the way the system should work

No... it should mostly be a wash... the course rating “should” average out... it’s an imperfect system, though... and additional length adds challenges in different ways for different people...

 

if the course has lots of shorter holes that don’t require driver or leave you with less than 100 in, playing from 20 yards back isn’t going to change your score a ton...

 

the biggest difference would be par fives going to unreachable, which will add strokes... or forced carries you can’t handle anymore... if neither of those happen from the back tees, it will probably end up lowering your handicap.

 

Honestly, they should probably use scoring on the course to update course ratings on a yearly basis...

[chippa13]

Not quicker than this.......

 

 

 

[ThinkingPlus]

2 hours ago, swagee said:

I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. 
Ur index is a function of ur actual score, course rating and slope rating, as shown below

 

 

I know it looks complicated, but it basically means that if u score the same on different tee boxes, ur score (ESQ-explained below) on the further teebox (higher slop rating) will result in a lower index. 
 

ESQ-Equitable Score Control
Ur actual score is NOT what being used to calculate ur index, but rather the ESQ (the two could be the same). 

ESQ takes into account any anomalies that happen during a round, e.g. hitting 5 balls in the water on the same hole. These anomalies do not reflect ur actual ability, and therefore will be taken out before calculating ur index. 

With ESQ, u are only allowed a maximum score per hole based on ur course hdc, see table below.

 

So, u have it.

I hope it helps.

Or not 😂😂

Cheers

 

 

That is no longer the correct formula.  As of 1/1/20 in USGA demesnes it is average of best 8 of 20 with no 0.96 multiplier.   Other regions of the world rolled out the new system at later dates this year.  Part of the new World Handicap System (WHS).  ESC has also been replaced with net double bogey based on the hole handicap assignments (1 - 18).

[Loki]

Snowman, have you learned nothing in your life? The fastest way to change your index is to put in a bunch of fake scores. Man, some people.

[Loki]

In all seriousness, I believe my index is lower than it should be because the two league courses I play are set up short.

[Moonlightgrm]

Instruction from a qualified instructor, then lots of practice. 
 

Improvement from 100-yards-in, would be beneficial (short game).

[Moonlightgrm]

4 hours ago, swagee said:

I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. 
Ur index is a function of ur actual score, course rating and slope rating, as shown below

 

 

I know it looks complicated, but it basically means that if u score the same on different tee boxes, ur score (ESQ-explained below) on the further teebox (higher slop rating) will result in a lower index. 
 

ESQ-Equitable Score Control
Ur actual score is NOT what being used to calculate ur index, but rather the ESQ (the two could be the same). 

ESQ takes into account any anomalies that happen during a round, e.g. hitting 5 balls in the water on the same hole. These anomalies do not reflect ur actual ability, and therefore will be taken out before calculating ur index. 

With ESQ, u are only allowed a maximum score per hole based on ur course hdc, see table below.

 

So, u have it.

I hope it helps.

Or not 😂😂

Cheers

 

 

This formula is incorrect.

[br61]

I have brought up this with my pros, I'm 59 year old but still love to play from back tees that is 6950 yds long(73.1/131) because I usually make lot of pars and I love having some reps with mid irons instead of short irons. One tees up is around 6300 yds long(70.0/124) and my scores usually are only 1 or 2 shots different from back tees scores. The problem is that my playing partners do not want to play from back tees. Wimps!

 

Yes, I know my handicap will be lower if I play from back tees more often because I make lot of pars and keep my ball in the play pretty well. But right now, I don't care which tees I play from because I'm still thankful that I still can play golf.

[swagee]

55 minutes ago, Moonlightgrm said:

This formula is incorrect.

Pls enlighten us with a correct one

[swagee]

2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

That is no longer the correct formula.  As of 1/1/20 in USGA demesnes it is average of best 8 of 20 with no 0.96 multiplier.   Other regions of the world rolled out the new system at later dates this year.  Part of the new World Handicap System (WHS).  ESC has also been replaced with net double bogey based on the hole handicap assignments (1 - 18).

Correct, but the fundamental remains the same. 

[nsxguy]

9 hours ago, Snowman9000 said:

Move back a tee box.  Post a bunch of rounds from there.

 

Because of typical course ratings, that's what will happen.  (At least in the US.)  Move back a box, your scores might go up a bit but your index will come down.  Or the opposite: move up a box, you'll probably score lower but will develop a higher index.  This has happened to me several times over the years, at four courses.  (I've moved up or back depending on my group at the time.)  Has anyone else noticed the same?

 

Is this the way the system should work?  It doesn't seem so.  I'm the same golfer yet I can earn vastly different indexes/indices by playing different tees at the same course.  Note, I'm not talking about course handicap.  I'm talking about the index.  If you've never experienced it, you might be surprised at what happens.   A great way for me to sandbag would be to play a lot from a shorter tee box.  Then play a tourney farther back.

 

Maybe I'm just an unusual golfer?  I'm a steady player, always been a little on the short hitting side, you know the type.  Mediocre putter but good at lagging, it doesn't matter much if I'm 40 feet or 12 feet because they are both going to be 2 putts.  currently 11 index. 

 

If you play enough rounds from each tee set your scores will be lower from further up and higher from further back. They should come close to approximating the difference in course rating from each tee set.

 

But your indices from each tee set should be roughly the same.

 

That's the theory. To truly "test" this you would need to take your last 20 rounds from EACH tee set and check your index from each tee set. They "should" be the same - again, in theory.

 

Unlike what a lot of golfers tend to think, one is not "supposed" to shoot to their index as their index is the average of their best 8 out of 20 differentials. So the highest 60% of your last 20 differentials aren't even in the calculation.

 

So if one does the math, one should match their index or better somewhere around 1-3 times in their last 20 rounds.

 

 

 

 

[ChaosTheory]

14 hours ago, nsxguy said:

(NOTE: POSTING BOX IS FUBAR.  SEE MY REPLY AT BOTTOM OF QUOTE.)

If you play enough rounds from each tee set your scores will be lower from further up and higher from further back. They should come close to approximating the difference in course rating from each tee set.

 

But your indices from each tee set should be roughly the same.

 

That's the theory. To truly "test" this you would need to take your last 20 rounds from EACH tee set and check your index from each tee set. They "should" be the same - again, in theory.

 

Unlike what a lot of golfers tend to think, one is not "supposed" to shoot to their index as their index is the average of their best 8 out of 20 differentials. So the highest 60% of your last 20 differentials aren't even in the calculation.

 

So if one does the math, one should match their index or better somewhere around 1-3 times in their last 20 rounds.    END Quote but my editor isn't letting me get out of this box! 

 

Here is my reply:  Oh, I don't have to test it, because I have lived it more than once.  And am living it now because I'm playing a tee box up and my index is going up, as usual.  For me the ratings changes don't even things out.

 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Snowman9000

[mikpga]

Cheat.  If your question is genuine about lowering your score/handicap, then I would eliminate "quickest" from your initial question.

[Zitlow]

Develop a knack for turning three shots into two shots. 

[Obee]

On 12/16/2020 at 8:50 AM, Snowman9000 said:

Move back a tee box.  Post a bunch of rounds from there.

 

Because of typical course ratings, that's what will happen.  (At least in the US.)  Move back a box, your scores might go up a bit but your index will come down.  Or the opposite: move up a box, you'll probably score lower but will develop a higher index.  This has happened to me several times over the years, at four courses.  (I've moved up or back depending on my group at the time.)  Has anyone else noticed the same?

 

Is this the way the system should work?  It doesn't seem so.  I'm the same golfer yet I can earn vastly different indexes/indices by playing different tees at the same course.  Note, I'm not talking about course handicap.  I'm talking about the index.  If you've never experienced it, you might be surprised at what happens.   A great way for me to sandbag would be to play a lot from a shorter tee box.  Then play a tourney farther back.

 

Maybe I'm just an unusual golfer?  I'm a steady player, always been a little on the short hitting side, you know the type.  Mediocre putter but good at lagging, it doesn't matter much if I'm 40 feet or 12 feet because they are both going to be 2 putts.  currently 11 index. 

Didn't/hasn't happened to me at all. Index has been consistent for many years across all sorts of tees. 

[bladehunter]

Eh.   If you hit it long enough you should score relatively same from farther back.  
 

I can give you a instance of the opposite.  My home course , it’s tight , tree lined and forced layups on several holes because of doglegs.  With big slopey and fast Bermuda greens ...... my best day from the tips wouldn’t be 2-3 shots different than my best day from the front box because  the front box just means I’ll hit a lot of irons to the doglegs off the tee instead of driver - 3 wood and the putts won’t be easier . I might gain a couple by guaranteed 2 putt birdies on par 5s.  But that’s about it. 
 

now as I think about it , would me playing from front box and shooting similar raise my cap ?  I don’t see how. Not by much. 

Edited December 18, 2020 by bladehunter

[ThinkingPlus]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Eh.   If you hit it long enough you should score relatively same from farther back.  
 

I can give you a instance of the opposite.  My home course , it’s tight , tree lined and forced layups on several holes because of doglegs.  With big slopey and fast Bermuda greens ...... my best day from the tips wouldn’t be 2-3 shots different than my best day from the front box because  the front box just means I’ll hit a lot of irons to the doglegs off the tee instead of driver - 3 wood and the putts won’t be easier . I might gain a couple by guaranteed 2 putt birdies on par 5s.  But that’s about it. 
 

now as I think about it , would me playing from front box and shooting similar raise my cap ?  I don’t see how. Not by much. 

It probably will.  I assume the yardage difference would be pretty substantial.  Just check the delta between the CRs.

[Krt22]

I think this is partially course dependent and how long you are. If you are a long hitter, the delta in scores might not be extreme, so youll end up with some lower differentials. If you are short off the tee and the course is long with forced carries, your scores might inflate a lot. 

[pinhigh27]

100% for long hitting good players. It's hard to go low mentally. Way easier for me to shoot 70 on a 74 rated tee-box than 68 on the 72. 

 

I also think in general that ratings vary widely course to course with little rhyme or reason and that hazards/OB tend to be undervalued in course ratings relative to raw yardage. My previous course was rated lower from the tips than my current one but it probably played 3-4 shots harder tips to tips since every single hole had OB/hazard on both sides of the hole. You hit a bad drive and it's gone. I've seen a ton of reasonably deep + handicaps like +3 - +5 lose multiple balls per round, vs current course where you pretty much can spray it and find it except for a few holes. 

 

Rating system needs an overhaul. 

[mgoblue83]

20 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

I think this is partially course dependent and how long you are. If you are a long hitter, the delta in scores might not be extreme, so youll end up with some lower differentials. If you are short off the tee and the course is long with forced carries, your scores might inflate a lot. 

 

Well said.

 

I'll add that for most guys who spray it off the tee they won't shoot any better from forward tees as they will still take the same amount of penalty strokes.

 

The real question is who benefits the most and who gets punished the most by handicap differences between sets of tees?

 

Benefits: Anyone who keeps it in play but has a bad short game?

Punished: Anyone who keeps it in play but has a good short game?

Push: Anyone who sprays it.

 

Curious what you guys think as I might have it backwards.