Withdrawing from a tournament

[leezer99]

Other than an injury is it ever okay to withdraw your kid from an event?  

[Denis Dymov]

Hi!

Speaking from a personal point of view (I am myself a junior golfer), my golf team for which I play does not allow me to withdraw from a tournament after I have started my first round unless I have an injury or an emergency. But I think that is linked to ranking and stats. 
 

On the other hand, I have had moments and I know other people who have withdrawn from tournaments before is started. Some of the times I withdrew were because of such cold and rainy conditions that I risked getting sick before a national or an important event. Other times I had to withdraw because the course was playing in such conditions and was maintained so badly that I knew that I would have a more productive time if I practiced. 
 

I once had a friend who went to a big tournament and felt so scared at the beginning of the round that withdrew. He was a real good player, ranking well inside the top 50 of the country, but the nerves got to him. Don’t know if that was the right decision, but I would have still played and learned form that experience. 
 

So, in the end, I think it all depends on the situation. Is it really worth withdrawing from the tournament and losing that experience?

[leezer99]

4 hours ago, Denis Dymov said:

Hi!

Speaking from a personal point of view (I am myself a junior golfer), my golf team for which I play does not allow me to withdraw from a tournament after I have started my first round unless I have an injury or an emergency. But I think that is linked to ranking and stats. 
 

On the other hand, I have had moments and I know other people who have withdrawn from tournaments before is started. Some of the times I withdrew were because of such cold and rainy conditions that I risked getting sick before a national or an important event. Other times I had to withdraw because the course was playing in such conditions and was maintained so badly that I knew that I would have a more productive time if I practiced. 
 

I once had a friend who went to a big tournament and felt so scared at the beginning of the round that withdrew. He was a real good player, ranking well inside the top 50 of the country, but the nerves got to him. Don’t know if that was the right decision, but I would have still played and learned form that experience. 
 

So, in the end, I think it all depends on the situation. Is it really worth withdrawing from the tournament and losing that experience?

Interesting, so your coach would never allow you to WD for poor course conditions or crazy weather?

[hangontight]

One hand.....finish what you started ...

 

Other hand.....if a kid is acting like a fool, do you yank him? I’ve seen it threatened several times, but a dad actually did it a few weeks ago to one of my sons playing competitors.  (Odd thing was it was only the two of them in the pairing, so my son had to wait for the group behind to catch up so he could have a marker).  We’ve all seen some outlandish behavior out there and probably thought  “if that was my kid, I would yank his —— out so fast....”, so I guess I would say it is OK if it’s an extreme behavior issue.  

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, hangontight said:

One hand.....finish what you started ...

 

Other hand.....if a kid is acting like a fool, do you yank him? I’ve seen it threatened several times, but a dad actually did it a few weeks ago to one of my sons playing competitors.  (Odd thing was it was only the two of them in the pairing, so my son had to wait for the group behind to catch up so he could have a marker).  We’ve all seen some outlandish behavior out there and probably thought  “if that was my kid, I would yank his —— out so fast....”, so I guess I would say it is OK if it’s an extreme behavior issue.  

Yes, I hadn’t thought of behavioral issues. I believe this is acceptable. 

[Denis Dymov]

8 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Interesting, so your coach would never allow you to WD for poor course conditions or crazy weather?

Withdrawing from a tournament with poor course conditions is totally fine, but this wouldn’t happen in the middle of a tournament. You normally arrive at the course for a practice round, or maybe just start asking friends and members the conditions of the course before the actual tournament starts. That’s when I make my decision of the course is not even worth playing. From personal experience, I never found a course that looked normal to me on a practice day, and then look totally unplayable on the next. So from my experience you will always understand the course conditions before the actual tournament starts.

 

As for the weather conditions, it all depends on the situation. You could look at the weather preview, but if it’s something unexpected then it all comes back to the question I asked in the last post : Is it worth not taking the playing experience and doing something else instead? If the weather is real cold and wet and you have important tournaments coming up, you might want to withdraw. But in my opinion the experience in bad weather is worth it. If you don’t practice in bad weather, it is hard that you will play well when you are forced to play in it. I faced that in one of my tournaments in Russia where it was around 9 degrees Celsius and super windy. All of my playing partners were making it seem effortless, but because I lived in Italy I was freezing to death😂. 
 

So in my opinion it all depends on the situation. Make a list of pros and cons if a situation like this comes up.  

[golfer929]

13 hours ago, Denis Dymov said:

Hi!

Speaking from a personal point of view (I am myself a junior golfer), my golf team for which I play does not allow me to withdraw from a tournament after I have started my first round unless I have an injury or an emergency. But I think that is linked to ranking and stats. 
 

On the other hand, I have had moments and I know other people who have withdrawn from tournaments before is started. Some of the times I withdrew were because of such cold and rainy conditions that I risked getting sick before a national or an important event. Other times I had to withdraw because the course was playing in such conditions and was maintained so badly that I knew that I would have a more productive time if I practiced. 
 

I once had a friend who went to a big tournament and felt so scared at the beginning of the round that withdrew. He was a real good player, ranking well inside the top 50 of the country, but the nerves got to him. Don’t know if that was the right decision, but I would have still played and learned form that experience. 
 

So, in the end, I think it all depends on the situation. Is it really worth withdrawing from the tournament and losing that experience?

I don't understand why you would WD from bad course conditions? Everyone is playing the tournament on the same course. Not everywhere you play is going to be perfect all the time, and you shouldn't expect it to be. I hate to say it, but this is a pretty soft excuse.

[tiger1873]

A few reasons you should WD from a tournament.  

 

1)  You playing a course where the conditions have changed or are so bad that you simply can't play well at all.  For instance the tour director decides that you should continue to play when the greens are covered in water.  I also seen where the temperature dipped into the 30's and you really shouldn't be out there playing.

 

2) You end up playing a poorly run tournament.  I am talking about an extreme case here but some tours are just run by idiots. The one example I seen is your playing a round and end up with 7 people on a par 3 waiting to tee off if this happens it is sort of unacceptable to continue to play.  

 

3) If your skill set is not in line with other players.  I've seen kids who shoot 150 and keep playing the next day.   Don't be that person. 

 

4) You show up and for what ever reason you seem to forgot how to play golf.  I don't care who you are stuff happens maybe you had a swing thought that turned out bad or it happens to be a very off day.  A bad day is not a reason to quit I am talking about days where your 20-30 points worse then you should be.  

 

I think a lot this is just common sense.  Everyone is also going to have different thresholds based on the skill of the golfer your talking about.

 

You also really should try and finish when you can every one these reasons above are extreme cases.   In most cases you end up playing through and then a day or two later come to conclusion you should have walked.

 

 

[tiger1873]

6 hours ago, golfer929 said:

I don't understand why you would WD from bad course conditions? Everyone is playing the tournament on the same course. Not everywhere you play is going to be perfect all the time, and you shouldn't expect it to be. I hate to say it, but this is a pretty soft excuse.

 

Depends on the conditions we are talking about. Some tournament directors are under immense pressure to play a round if at all possible.  This isn't the PGA where they will cancel an unplayable event. Juniors can play in horrific conditions sometimes.

 

If you go out there the course is unplayable and you end up with a horrendous round.  First off I not there to see my kid or anyone else out there cry because the course was just plain bad conditions. The damage a bad round like that can do to a kids mental game is a lot.   

[leezer99]

41 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

The damage a bad round like that can do to a kids mental game is a lot.   

 

Pretty weak excuse.  Those that persevere are the ones that come out the other end stronger.  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

Edited February 22, 2021 by leezer99
typo

[heavy_hitter]

7 hours ago, golfer929 said:

I don't understand why you would WD from bad course conditions? Everyone is playing the tournament on the same course. Not everywhere you play is going to be perfect all the time, and you shouldn't expect it to be. I hate to say it, but this is a pretty soft excuse.

Disagree.  

 

If you go up a couple of weeks before the tournament and the course is garbage, why would you play it?  Why travel 3 hours, hotel room 2 nights, for a terrible course with a terrible layout?  PGA and LPGA pick and choose.  Why can't a junior?

 

This just happened to us.  There were around 2 dozen withdrawals from the tournament before it started for the same reason.  Scores were terrible on the course as well.  Why play to shoot poorly on a terrible course when you can play another venue that is great?

 

But, if you start it, you should finish it.  No reason to withdraw when you start unless you are injured, ill, family emergency.

Edited February 22, 2021 by heavy_hitter

[tiger1873]

20 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Pretty weak excuse.  Those that persevere are the ones that come out the other end stronger.  What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, right?

 

 

I used to think the same way you start a tournament you should finish no matter what.  Some tournaments are tough tough conditions.  Some kids just are not served by being forced to play in bad conditions.  

 

Some of us have kids who have no issues with completing a round others don't have the skills to even try and play it. You never know if you handle harsh conditions until you play in it. 

 

Live in Florida and most kids here can't play very well when it under 60 degrees.  If your not used to playing 40 or 50 degree weather and not dressed well it doesn't serve much purpose to keep playing.  Other kids have no issue.

[leezer99]

12 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

I used to think the same way you start a tournament you should finish no matter what.  Some tournaments are tough tough conditions.  Some kids just are not served by being forced to play in bad conditions.  

 

Some of us have kids who have no issues with completing a round others don't have the skills to even try and play it. You never know if you handle harsh conditions until you play in it. 

 

Live in Florida and most kids here can't play very well when it under 60 degrees.  If your not used to playing 40 or 50 degree weather and not dressed well it doesn't serve much purpose to keep playing.  Other kids have no issue.

 

You gotta sack up if you're not prepared.

[Abh159]

23 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Other than an injury is it ever okay to withdraw your kid from an event?  

 

A few people have mentioned various situations where they think a WD is appropriate, but my opinion is other than injury, illness, or an emergency I don't feel it's ever really appropriate to WD from a tournament.  

 

I guess I can slightly understand if a course was literally unplayable, but I played hundreds of junior tournaments growing up and I never once played in one where this was the case. Everyone is playing on the same course in the same conditions (rain, sleet, wind, cold, hot, etc.). Learn to adapt and deal with it. It's not going to be 70* and sunny every time you play even on the PGA and LPGA tours. Just look at last years US Women's Open for example. 

 

I think the poor performance (either during the round or following a bad round) is the one that bothers me the most. You aren't going to play your best every time you tee it up and if you just quit when you play bad you're really doing yourself a disservice. I can also 100% guarantee you that college coaches look closely at kids who WD regularly and are very, very cautious about recruiting them. If the kid isn't mentally tough enough to learn how to deal with a bad round or a poor performance then they probably shouldn't be playing any sort of competitive sport anyway. 

[wildcatden]

Injury, illness or family emergency would be obvious cases.  Ability to compete would be another. If you kid is out there shooting 120+ for 18 holes, are you really helping them? Plus, seems kind of a disservice to your competitors.  You can go shoot 120+ on your own and save tourney fees to boot.

[leezer99]

1 minute ago, wildcatden said:

Injury, illness or family emergency would be obvious cases.  Ability to compete would be another. If you kid is out there shooting 120+ for 18 holes, are you really helping them? Plus, seems kind of a disservice to your competitors.  You can go shoot 120+ on your own and save tourney fees to boot.

 

Played with a 12 year old boy this past year that would shoot 110+ in every event.  Now he shoots mid 80's a few months later.  If he had given up on tournaments because of his scoring he'd be okay with giving up and only doing stuff he's good at.

[wildcatden]

3 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Played with a 12 year old boy this past year that would shoot 110+ in every event.  Now he shoots mid 80's a few months later.  If he had given up on tournaments because of his scoring he'd be okay with giving up and only doing stuff he's good at.

 

Did he get to 80's by playing tournaments or by playing/practicing more at his home course?

[heavy_hitter]

19 minutes ago, wildcatden said:

 

Did he get to 80's by playing tournaments or by playing/practicing more at his home course?

 

You don't quit even if you shoot 150.  You keep grinding and learn.

 

First tournament my daughter ever played in was when she was 13.  She was terrible.  She ended up shooting 108-104 and was last in the tournament.  We knew absolutely nothing at that time.  She played with two girls that were really good 72-78 and 84-72.   First girl went on to play at Vandy and the other UGA.  Next event my daughter played in was 93-94.  Her scores continually dropped tournament after tournament.  August before her Freshman year she put her first round in the 70's.

 

No kid should feel bad that they had a bad day and you shouldn't make them feel bad that they did have a bad day.  We used to think that shooting in the 90's was good.  My daughter got good by watching and learning from other players in tournaments.  She was very observant.  Had she not kept falling off the bike and getting back up, she would have never played past high school.  She would have never gone to play in the USGA Girl's Junior, never had been names HS player of the year in our area her junior and senior years, would never had gone to 4 straight HS state championships, would have never gone to college to play golf.

[tiger1873]

16 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

Played with a 12 year old boy this past year that would shoot 110+ in every event.  Now he shoots mid 80's a few months later.  If he had given up on tournaments because of his scoring he'd be okay with giving up and only doing stuff he's good at.

 

 

It depends on the event. There are 9 hole 18 hole and 36 and even 54 hole events.  There is a place for everyone for sure. The problem comes in when a kid plays a 36 or 54 event and has no business playing it.

 

I tend to think a kid should have the potential to break 100 in practice play on your home course in a casual round to event think about playing  a 36 hole event.  They may score 120 and that is okay it happens especially in a tournament.

 

But I have also seen kids who can't break 120 and clearly should not be playing a 36 hole event. 9 hole events are for kids who are just starting out. 

 

If you enter the correct event you will have very little reason to not finish

[Chipwich]

My son had a playoff hockey game at 4:20pm and a teetime for a SNJGA tournament at 10:30.  He withdrew at 2pm after 11 holes which took 3.5 hours.  😬

[heavy_hitter]

9 minutes ago, Chipwich said:

My son had a playoff hockey game at 4:20pm and a teetime for a SNJGA tournament at 10:30.  He withdrew at 2pm after 11 holes which took 3.5 hours.  😬

Same Tournament Andy lined up the 10" putt?

[BloctonGolf11]

You never withdraw unless injury, illness, or emergency.

 

Some of you are talking about withdrawing due to playing poorly. Get out of here with that. Grind through it.

 

2 years ago my son was playing good golf and he went into the Boys State Championship and we knew he would not win due to being young and not having the distance but knew he could compete and play well. Low and behold, the stage was to big for him and he freaked out. After 4 holes he was +12 and I asked the TD if he wanted me to pull him off the course due to slowing the group down. The TD gave the most eloquent response ever: "This is an open event, he has as much a right to be here as any one. Let him finish and let him learn from finishing." After the tournament the TD took my son aside and talked to him about how you learn more from grinding through a round like that than you do from a -4 round. My son is more proud of finding a way to scramble two pars out of that day than he is of the score of his best rounds. 

 

If you withdraw your kid due to course conditions or crappy management of the event what message are you sending? You are giving them an excuse plain and simple. If the course conditions suck for you they suck for everyone else. If the management sucks for you it sucks for everyone else. Don't give your kids that excuse. 

 

Side note if your kid is acting a donkey absolutely pull their butts off the course. Different scenario there. 

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

You never withdraw unless injury, illness, or emergency.

 

Some of you are talking about withdrawing due to playing poorly. Get out of here with that. Grind through it.

 

2 years ago my son was playing good golf and he went into the Boys State Championship and we knew he would not win due to being young and not having the distance but knew he could compete and play well. Low and behold, the stage was to big for him and he freaked out. After 4 holes he was +12 and I asked the TD if he wanted me to pull him off the course due to slowing the group down. The TD gave the most eloquent response ever: "This is an open event, he has as much a right to be here as any one. Let him finish and let him learn from finishing." After the tournament the TD took my son aside and talked to him about how you learn more from grinding through a round like that than you do from a -4 round. My son is more proud of finding a way to scramble two pars out of that day than he is of the score of his best rounds. 

 

If you withdraw your kid due to course conditions or crappy management of the event what message are you sending? You are giving them an excuse plain and simple. If the course conditions suck for you they suck for everyone else. If the management sucks for you it sucks for everyone else. Don't give your kids that excuse. 

 

Side note if your kid is acting a donkey absolutely pull their butts off the course. Different scenario there. 

My son has played in groups as a 12 year old with kids that have driven themselves to the course and their only spectator is the girlfriend. 

[kekoa]

Its fine to withdraw for any reason, but I wouldn't make a habit of it.

Edited February 23, 2021 by kekoa

[Chipwich]

12 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Same Tournament Andy lined up the 10" putt?

Sadly, no.  5 hour+ rounds are becoming the norm.

[Denis Dymov]

Hi! I saw that many of you were wondering why I said course condition as a reason to withdraw. I do not live in the US. I live in Italy. And in some months such as October November some courses get very wet and the maintenance is not at its top level. And  also there are some golf clubs here that are in a very bad economical position, so you will see things such as no sand in bunkers and greens with a speed of 4 on the stimp meter. Of course none of the big tournaments are organized there. But some of the smaller junior tours are played at courses like this, and so from my personal point of view I will get much more progress if I practice then if I play. 
 

Hope it makes sense!

[tiger1873]

6 hours ago, Denis Dymov said:

Hi! I saw that many of you were wondering why I said course condition as a reason to withdraw. I do not live in the US. I live in Italy. And in some months such as October November some courses get very wet and the maintenance is not at its top level. And  also there are some golf clubs here that are in a very bad economical position, so you will see things such as no sand in bunkers and greens with a speed of 4 on the stimp meter. Of course none of the big tournaments are organized there. But some of the smaller junior tours are played at courses like this, and so from my personal point of view I will get much more progress if I practice then if I play. 
 

Hope it makes sense!

 

It's not much different here in the US sometimes courses are not in very good shape and they seek out revenue from junior tournaments.

 

Only if your in the pga do they suspend play  like they did this weekend.  How many local muni's or junior tours would pull all the players off because of conditions like that?   Most juniors would have kept playing a course in that same condition and dad's  would argue the conditions were playable or get upset their kid didn't make a birdie.  I doubt any junior events were cancelled or suspended last weekend in southern California. It be interesting to see if an event was played close by and the difference in scores.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/genesis-invitational-high-winds-first-round-suspended

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by tiger1873

[darter79]

4 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

It's not much different here in the US sometimes courses are not in very good shape and they seek out revenue from junior tournaments.

 

Only if your in the pga do they suspend play  like they did this weekend.  How many local muni's or junior tours would pull all the players off because of conditions like that?   Most juniors would have kept playing a course in that same condition and dad's  would argue the conditions were playable or get upset their kid didn't make a birdie.  I doubt any junior events were cancelled or suspended last weekend in southern California. It be interesting to see if an event was played close by and the difference in scores.

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/genesis-invitational-high-winds-first-round-suspended

 

 

 

 

Juniors are not playing conditions as tough as that where balls would not even stay on the green. Firm greens running 12+. They had TV gear falling the wind was so strong. Not the same as playing a soft course for a junior. 

 

[tiger1873]

7 minutes ago, darter79 said:

 

Juniors are not playing conditions as tough as that where balls would not even stay on the green. Firm greens running 12+. They had TV gear falling the wind was so strong. Not the same as playing a soft course for a junior. 

 

 

I seen similar conditions and in some cases conditions much worse when playing junior tournaments.  Pro's don't deal with the same conditions as amateurs.

 

We once played in a tropical storm here in florida. The greens were under water they didn't suspend play. I didn't pull my daughter because she wanted to play but in retrospect I should have.

 

We also played tournaments in Texas where is it started out 60 degrees and cold front came in early and it was snowing and 27 by the time we finished.   Luckily it was just a one day tournament.   I am also not saying don't quit but in some cases flights hotels are booked so you suck it up and and try to play it. 

 

 

 

 

[kekoa]

Ask Wolff.  He's WD's a few times now seemingly from poor play.