Short/heavy "Iron Replacement" hybrids

[DaveGoodrich]

I just built 23* and 26* Adams Pro Mini hybrids using the same shafts as my irons (RIP Tour 115).  I set them up at the same lengths and swingweights as the 4 and 5 irons they are replacing. So far, I like it.  

 

It's funny, a 38.5" 4-iron feels long and hard to hit.  But a 38.5" 4-hybrid feels short, almost like I'm hitting an 8-iron.   These are small, low-launch hybrids. But set up like this, they launch and spin like my mid-irons, but my distances don't drop off like they do with the 5 and 4 irons. 

 

Anybody else do something like this?  I wonder if more folks set up their hybrids like this (shorter and heavier), whether they would have fewer struggles the "hybrid hooks." 

 

 

[MPAndreassi]

I experimented with a Mizuno CLK 4 hybrid a bit last season this same way. Played it at the same length and loft as my 4 iron. It was better than hybrids in the past I’ve tried, but I hit my long irons well and I ended up going back to the 4 iron. 

[Drivingrangehero]

I have done this with Modus 105 steel shafts in Adams Super 9031 Proto hybrids, which you can buy the heads on the ‘Bay now for under $30..... they are the Proto, so matte black heads, not white, and they have the newer model removable weight pattern rather than the old triangle 🔥 

 

Best move I’ve ever made with hybrids. They are the most iron like I have ever played as far as trajectory goes and they are already flat, so the shorter shaft makes them point and shoot for me. 
 

I play the 20* and 23* at 1/2 over standard length to my set.  I have Mizuno HMB’s that I play 1/2 over, so the 9031 follows the same progression.  The 9031’s are 1* weaker than the HMB’s in corresponding iron, so the gapping is spot on. The 20* is 39.5 steel and 23* is 39 steel.  Although they are 1/2 over in steel, that is 1/2 under the original playing length in graphite. I bought 4 heads, just so I have extra. 

[DaveGoodrich]

@Drivingrangehero Thanks for your input.  Those 9031's are very similar to the Pro Mini's I just built.   Glad to hear they are working out for you in the long term.  I'm looking forward to my own long-term testing.

 

How do you find the 20* in terms of forgiveness and ease of launch?  I am debating going to the the larger "Pro" hybrid, not the Mini, for the 20*, but I'd love to stay with the Mini if it isn't too hard to hit.  

[Drivingrangehero]

I originally purchased a 9031 DHY at 24* and a 9031 hybrid at 20*. 
 

I found the 20* to be so good, I decided to ditch the DHY (which I liked, but the Hybrid was 1* stronger which made it better for gapping)  and go with the Hybrid. 
 

My problem with hybrids has always been with flighting them down, so after hitting the 9031 I was officially in the hybrid camp. 
 

I have the same shafts in my hybrids as I do my irons Modus 105s hs/x1.  I flight them higher than my irons,  but considerably lower than my last hybrid which was a 2016 Callaway Apex 18* 

 

For me, the 20* is to fill the gap in my every revolving 4 wood/2hybid/2iron spot. I haven’t been able to do much testing with which club it gaps best off of, due to a recent shoulder injury (torn rotator cuff) so I’m out for a while.  
 

I haven’t hit the Pro, my gamer the 9031 Proto is just a Pro Mini with different paint.  So I can’t compare the two. 
 

I would gather that if you have problems with your 4-5 irons dropping off, and your 23 +26* spin and launch like your mid irons without the drop off,  you may be a good fit for the Pro. I hit my 20+23* much higher than my irons, but I’m not landing balls on Mars any longer. 
 

[bnperrone]

I have a 4-iron and an equivalent hybrid that are nearly identical in loft, length, and total weight. Therefore the hybrid is roughly an inch under standard. I like it this way. I can pick one or the other, practice with both, etc. I personally like my 4-iron just fine and usually prefer it, but if I know I'm playing in thick rough or on a course with firmer greens that happen to also have longer par 3s then it's an option. It also lets me carry a driving iron and know that I have a more forgiving long-ish club with me. 

[j_giesler]

Sounds like a great idea for a fun build

[DaveGoodrich]

@DrivingrangeheroWell, I just "Bought it Now" a 20* Pro Mini.  $44 including shipping, so how could I resist?  Cheap experiment...

 

I've played with various dHy's quite a bit too, but never loved them.  For one thing, they are really kind of ugly to look down at, with a lot of offset, etc.   And for me, they never really performed better than a SGI iron (i.e. Adams CB3) in the 4 and 5 iron spots.  The Pro Mini's are still small, but without the offset, and just look better imo.   The 21* dHY definitely didn't give me enough "help," so we'll see if I need a higher launching hybrid than the "Mini" in the 20* spot.  

[EDT501]

Actually did this last week. I love my 3 iron, but a 21.5* blade just isn't the easiest things to elevate and have stop on a firm green. I read about Webb Simpson's hybrids and decided to give something similar a go. Ended up taking my g410 4h (22*) and re-building it out to replace my 3 iron - using the same KBS Tour 130x, swing weight (my 3 iron head and the 4h head actually came out within 1.5g of each other), length, etc.

 

Early results from this weekend were pretty good. The 4 hybrid goes carries about 3 yards further than my 3 iron, but the total distance is a complete wash. Haven't had it on a monitor yet, but the ball peaks noticeably higher downrange, so I imagine the angle of descent is significantly higher. Even though it was quite windy, I didn't have issues with the ball ballooning. Hit a few stingers off the tee that had no problem cutting through the wind and rolling out. Another benefit was the extra pop from a hybrid really helped vs a lump of steel on partial shots. 

 

So far its been a good silly season experiment and I could see myself putting another one in instead of the 4 iron.

[Rickey24]

The Mizuno Hi Fli is similar in concept and is a bit of a franken-club.  Almost an inch shorter than the same loft as a hybrid, and with several steel shafts available as standard options.  They even have bendable hosels.  I play a Hi Fli 4 iron/hybrid with Project X LZ shaft and it is wonderful sitting between 5-iron and 3 hybrid.  Way easier to hit off the turf than even a chunky game improvement 4-iron, yet with a more stable and controllable flight versus a regular hybrid (but also not as hot and long).  Cheap, too.

[joostin]

Built an Adams Super 9031 23° at 38.5" with my iron shaft because of reading the legendary-ness on wrx, probably including you guys.

 

For the 4 iron slot I want something that I can 1) easily hit high with easy "long iron" distance, 2) be able to flight lower and hit knock downs controlling distance (covers for 5 iron), and 3) give some versatility out of different lies, even punchouts and chips.  My Mizuno MP-H4 iron filled this nicely, but for that last criteria of versatility, I felt it was an iron trying to be a hybrid - why not just go hybrid?  Other criteria: 4) looks and feels good, 5) cheap experiment. 

 

Enter 9031...  I still haven't gotten out this year, and still need to tweak with lead tape, but it was giving me everything I wanted.  No hooks.  Feel isn't as good as an iron but petty solid.  I'd like to get on Trackman to see dispersion, but distances seemed normal, maybe a couple yards over the 4 iron, not as far as 3 iron, and able to hit cutoffs.

[jorgesgolf2]

18 hours ago, EDT501 said:

Actually did this last week. I love my 3 iron, but a 21.5* blade just isn't the easiest things to elevate and have stop on a firm green. I read about Webb Simpson's hybrids and decided to give something similar a go. Ended up taking my g410 4h (22*) and re-building it out to replace my 3 iron - using the same KBS Tour 130x, swing weight (my 3 iron head and the 4h head actually came out within 1.5g of each other), length, etc.

 

did you have to use a shim to reshaft the G410?  

[B_of_H]

I had a guy build a 818h2 21 degree with a 38.5" kbs tour 130.  It felt like a super heavy kids club.  It was however very effective for me until the head flew off into a pond.  for whatever reason an iron length weight shaft feels super short in my experience on a hybrid head.  

[Drivingrangehero]

2 hours ago, joostin said:

Built an Adams Super 9031 23° at 38.5" with my iron shaft because of reading the legendary-ness on wrx, probably including you guys.

 

For the 4 iron slot I want something that I can 1) easily hit high with easy "long iron" distance, 2) be able to flight lower and hit knock downs controlling distance (covers for 5 iron), and 3) give some versatility out of different lies, even punchouts and chips.  My Mizuno MP-H4 iron filled this nicely, but for that last criteria of versatility, I felt it was an iron trying to be a hybrid - why not just go hybrid?  Other criteria: 4) looks and feels good, 5) cheap experiment. 

 

Enter 9031...  I still haven't gotten out this year, and still need to tweak with lead tape, but it was giving me everything I wanted.  No hooks.  Feel isn't as good as an iron but petty solid.  I'd like to get on Trackman to see dispersion, but distances seemed normal, maybe a couple yards over the 4 iron, not as far as 3 iron, and able to hit cutoffs.

That’s what I love about the Super 9031 Proto. I found mine to have the same overall distance as my corresponding lofted iron, with longer carry, shorter roll out...... within 3 yards. If I was looking for a high ball speed bomber off of the tee, or something that will show burn marks on the ball from it re-entering the atmosphere from the deck, I’d  look elsewhere. 
 

if you are looking to fill gaps when you replace a 5-4-3 iron, something that flies a bit higher, lands a bit softer, and is a bit more versatile, then the Super 9031 is perfect IMHO! 

[EDT501]

23 hours ago, jorgesgolf2 said:

did you have to use a shim to reshaft the G410?  

Couple ways one could handle this - one is get a .370 shaft which fits the adaptor straight in, you could also use a shim, but what I did is tip trim a 0.355” shaft 5/8” which led to a quite snug fit. I wanted something that felt a little tighter in the hybrid than the irons which led me to that solution. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by EDT501

[goudok]

6 hours ago, B_of_H said:

I had a guy build a 818h2 21 degree with a 38.5" kbs tour 130.  It felt like a super heavy kids club.  It was however very effective for me until the head flew off into a pond.  for whatever reason an iron length weight shaft feels super short in my experience on a hybrid head.  

I had something similar in an 818H2 23 degree just with an AMT shaft.  However switched to U510 4i and couldn't be happier.

[DaveGoodrich]

 

6 hours ago, B_of_H said:

I had a guy build a 818h2 21 degree ... until the head flew off into a pond...

 

Sounds like you needed an actual club builder, not "a guy" to build you that hybrid 😄.

[DaveGoodrich]

I think I will build the 20* Pro Mini at 39.5", which is between the 3-iron (39") for my set and the stock 20* Pro Mini (40").  Since it will be a bit longer, rather than install the RIP Tour 115 shaft to match my irons and the 4 & 5 hybrids, I found a RIP Tour 90 3-iron shaft I am going to try.  Supposedly the same bend profile in a lighter package.  Another crazy experiment... 

[Seamie]

19 hours ago, Rickey24 said:

The Mizuno Hi Fli is similar in concept and is a bit of a franken-club.  Almost an inch shorter than the same loft as a hybrid, and with several steel shafts available as standard options.  They even have bendable hosels.  I play a Hi Fli 4 iron/hybrid with Project X LZ shaft and it is wonderful sitting between 5-iron and 3 hybrid.  Way easier to hit off the turf than even a chunky game improvement 4-iron, yet with a more stable and controllable flight versus a regular hybrid (but also not as hot and long).  Cheap, too.

Curious what sort of distance you saw from the 4 fli hi compared to your 5 iron?

My 5 iron is 26 degrees at 38 inches, so I’m thinking that the 5 fli hi at 22.5 and 38.5 might be a good 4 iron replacement for me, but not sure if there is some distance loss through higher flight and more spin.

[Drivingrangehero]

1 hour ago, DaveGoodrich said:

I think I will build the 20* Pro Mini at 39.5", which is between the 3-iron (39") for my set and the stock 20* Pro Mini (40").  Since it will be a bit longer, rather than install the RIP Tour 115 shaft to match my irons and the 4 & 5 hybrids, I found a RIP Tour 90 3-iron shaft I am going to try.  Supposedly the same bend profile in a lighter package.  Another crazy experiment... 

sounds great. I went the same route 
when I originally put the Modus 105 in my hybrids at 1/2 over standard iron length (which is 1/2 under standard playing length as well) I was playing standard length Titleist 716 TMB’s with XP 115’s, so I opted to go lighter. I had hit the XP 95, but liked the feel of Modus at that weight better. I would later be fitted into the Modus 105 by happenstance.  

[joostin]

9 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:

That’s what I love about the Super 9031 Proto. I found mine to have the same overall distance as my corresponding lofted iron, with longer carry, shorter roll out...... within 3 yards. If I was looking for a high ball speed bomber off of the tee, or something that will show burn marks on the ball from it re-entering the atmosphere from the deck, I’d  look elsewhere. 
 

if you are looking to fill gaps when you replace a 5-4-3 iron, something that flies a bit higher, lands a bit softer, and is a bit more versatile, then the Super 9031 is perfect IMHO! 

Sold!  I'll add that the high toe and scorelines give an almost iron-like look at address (H4 vs Super.. tough to pick one but going hybrid this year):

[Drivingrangehero]

When I played my TMB’s they were the same loft as the Adams, but the Adams were 1/2 inch longer, so they were about 1/2  club longer in distance. I dropped my 17* 2 iron and 20* 3 iron at the time, and played the Adams 20* to cover both. I figured I could cover the distance from 3-4 iron by chocking down. Now that I got fit for my new set, and I was put into the same shafts as the hybrid (Modus 105 hs/x1 at 1/2 over, who knew ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the fitter didn’t even know the Modus was in my hybrid, I only brought my irons at the time to compare)  my distances are covered in a more sensible progression. My HMB’s are 1* stronger at the same length (1/2 over) as the 9031’s . I find they gap seamlessly. I have only hit the 4 iron (22*) in the HMB’s, so I can compare to the (23*) 9031 hybrid, and they were almost identical....... 3 yards difference, I’m a decent ball striker, but I’m not a robot. 
 

if you are gapping off a set, you may want to look into loft and length as a factor. I can’t remember the swingweight on the 9031’s, I think they were around D5 at the longer length, and my 5-6-7 irons are at D4.5, so the heavier Swingweight was welcomed. YMMV 

[Rickey24]

4 hours ago, Seamie said:

Curious what sort of distance you saw from the 4 fli hi compared to your 5 iron?

My 5 iron is 26 degrees at 38 inches, so I’m thinking that the 5 fli hi at 22.5 and 38.5 might be a good 4 iron replacement for me, but not sure if there is some distance loss through higher flight and more spin.

My 5 iron is 25 degrees and 38" and it carries 182-185 off the turf on a normal strike.  My Hi Fli (with same Proj X LZ shaft) is 20 degrees and 39.25" and carries 195 off the turf on a normal strike.  (For reference, my driver SS is 103-ish and I am a 3hcp.)  With a chunky game improvement 4 iron off the turf, my carry was basically the same as the 5 iron carry but with more roll.  So not a very useful club at my middling SS.

[jorgesgolf2]

17 hours ago, EDT501 said:

Couple ways one could handle this - one is get a .370 shaft which fits the adaptor straight in, you could also use a shim, but what I did is tip trim a 0.350” shaft 5/8” which led to a quite snug fit. I wanted something that felt a little tighter in the hybrid than the irons which led me to that solution. 

That's a great tip - thanks very much.  I think I'll try the same thing with my my 0.355" project x lz.  

[mootrail]

A shorter heavier shafted hybrid is much easier to control and reduces the standard hybrid upright lie and toe sticking up in the air that says hit me left.  Adams however was notorious for their hooky closed faced hybrids and I could never hit one anywhere but left.

I play the previous Gen JPX Fli-Hi Hybrids.  I think Chris had to dial back this year's Fli-Hi's a degree or so because mine might have too long:)  My 19° 4 Fli-Hi with a Modus 3 Tour 105 is a hot faced hammer that's both excellent from the fairway and a fantastic tee club.

[DaveGoodrich]

3 hours ago, jorgesgolf2 said:

That's a great tip - thanks very much.  I think I'll try the same thing with my my 0.355" project x lz.  

Using a proper shim would be a better idea.  Tipping a taper tip shaft may, or may not, produce a good fit in a .370" hosel.  And tipping it 5/8" may be enough that you won't be able to seat the shaft fully because the taper of the shaft causes it to be too large at the top of the hosel.  Also, you would be hard-stepping the shaft, which may or may not be what you want.   Shims are cheap.  

[B_of_H]

19 hours ago, DaveGoodrich said:

 

 

Sounds like you needed an actual club builder, not "a guy" to build you that hybrid 😄.

 

yeah, I was not happy.  He is a certified club builder who has been in business for a long time and it was the aftermarket adapter that was to blame imo.  

[Seamie]

16 hours ago, Rickey24 said:

My 5 iron is 25 degrees and 38" and it carries 182-185 off the turf on a normal strike.  My Hi Fli (with same Proj X LZ shaft) is 20 degrees and 39.25" and carries 195 off the turf on a normal strike.  (For reference, my driver SS is 103-ish and I am a 3hcp.)  With a chunky game improvement 4 iron off the turf, my carry was basically the same as the 5 iron carry but with more roll.  So not a very useful club at my middling SS.

Thanks for the response.

5 iron is around 190 so I’m looking for something in the 200-205 range. I was thinking that the fli hi at 20 and 39.25 might be too long, but your experience suggests maybe not.

Did you try the 5 fli hi? Would be interesting to know what sort of distance that would give you.

[EDT501]

4 hours ago, DaveGoodrich said:

Using a proper shim would be a better idea.  Tipping a taper tip shaft may, or may not, produce a good fit in a .370" hosel.  And tipping it 5/8" may be enough that you won't be able to seat the shaft fully because the taper of the shaft causes it to be too large at the top of the hosel.  Also, you would be hard-stepping the shaft, which may or may not be what you want.   Shims are cheap.  

Speaking as the person who originally brought up the tipped 0.355" shaft in a 0.370" adaptor (or hosel), this is all correct information. For my application, I used calipers to verify the diameter of the shaft to make sure I didn't run into seating issues, and carefully measured/dry fit before final assembly. I also wanted something that felt "hard-stepped" relative to my iron shafts, so the tipping accomplished that as well. So if someone wanted to accomplish exactly the same thing as I did with the same shaft/club-head combo, Im confident my solution is effective, but I can't speak to other shafts/club-head combos.

 

I am not a professional club builder, but this experiment is still going well and I've hit a few hundred balls with it (most off of a mat with a hard concrete slab underneath) so if the build was going to fail I imagine it would have done so already.

[DaveGoodrich]

A few pics of the Adams Pro Mini 3, 4 and 5 "iron replacement" hybrids I just built:

 

 

They are built very close to "standard" iron lengths, but with 3/4" between them, for gapping: 5 (26*) at 37.75", 4 (23*) at 38.5" and 3 (20*) at 39.25".   The 4 and 5 use the same RIP Tour 115 iron shafts I have in my irons and wedges.  The 3 has a lighter RIP Tour 90 iron shaft.  

 

The Pro Mini hybrids fit in those neoprene covers made for oversize irons.  It kinda sorta disguises the 5 headcover bag 😳.  Definitely makes it less crowded.   

 

I've played the 4 and 5 a couple rounds, and so far, I'm really encouraged.  I just built the 3, but I'm looking forward to playing it this weekend.