Abnormal course conditions on putting green

[RCGA]

18 hours ago, abenjami said:

 

I'm not suggesting any significant alterations to the rules or anything.  Just saying if you are playing a course where it's clearly not being managed, I don't have a problem with someone doing LC&P on a muddy day or taking free relief from something that is very obviously ground under repair that hasn't been marked because the course doesn't mark anything.

 

 

I used to me a member at a private club. There were lots of times I'd play after poor weather (raining for a few days, clears off at 4p, rush to the course) and there wasn't a single employee there. 

 

Any reasonable committee would make it LC&P but they're all at home and probably couldn't care less about the mud on my ball. It's a stretch to say I'm breaking the rules. 

[larrybud]

On 7/26/2021 at 8:41 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

That would indeed be a bizarre situation, I must say. Every single golf course in the world has employees who carry the responsibility of managing the course.

Do you guys live in some sort golf utopia or something? I don't think the HS kid behind the counter collecting green's fees for the day counts as "managing the course".

Honestly, it's like the USGA. All these USGA members must belong to posh country clubs, where everything is marked and everything is perfect, or their experience with golf is completely theoretical.

[larrybud]

On 7/25/2021 at 5:21 AM, Newby said:

Given that General Play rounds are a fundamental part of WHS then all should play according to the course as marked and any legitimate local rules. My course's green keepers maintain the course in the same way regardless of what is scheduled for that day. Members expect the conditions but not necessarily the set up to be consistent.

 

That is what we, visitors and the public pay for.

The fact that you have "members" is a hint at your club. Most clubs in the US, unless private, don't have "members". Public courses with "members" are simply people who pay ahead in bulk for some sort of green's fee discount. They have no say in the matter of how the course is run, they aren't equity members of the course, and they aren't on any board. 

Heck, some courses are lucky to have proper tee markers set up for the day.

[Abh159]

18 minutes ago, larrybud said:

Do you guys live in some sort golf utopia or something? I don't think the HS kid behind the counter collecting green's fees for the day counts as "managing the course".

Honestly, it's like the USGA. All these USGA members must belong to posh country clubs, where everything is marked and everything is perfect, or their experience with golf is completely theoretical.

 

Well said. I've noticed a lot of the international posters on WRX don't seem to understand that not every golf course in the US has a rules committee, membership committee, or etc.

 

Sure some private clubs and upscale course have those, but most of the private clubs just have a head pro who will go out and mark the course before a tournament. He/she isn't doing it on a daily basis so most GUR areas are more so "understood" to be there as opposed to being officially designated. 

 

Heck I'd bet over 50% of the courses in the US are public places that have a single owner or are owned by either a city municipality or state. Most of those are lucky if they have PA or OB stakes and there is no way someone is going out on a regular basis to mark of GUR.

 

To the OP, I say if your ball is on the green find the nearest point of relief on the green (no closer to the hole) and putt from there. 

[dubbelbogey]

I just laugh when I hear the phrase "if the Committee deems..."

 

yeah - right - not in my world.

[MountainKing]

I would play them as GUR, if you're playing a cow pasture then just make the best of it and have fun with it.   Most courses aren't going to get marked up for daily play, it would involve a lot of man hours to go out every couple of days to spray around the area's that need it.  A course like this, they obviously can't keep up with maintenance so how could you expect them to keep up with keeping all the GUR marked?

[smashdn]

On 6/4/2021 at 9:47 PM, SNIPERBBB said:

Courses are cheap. They arent going to waste money on spray paint outside of big events, especially when most players are just gonna do what they want anyways for casual play. Only time theyll mark or post something like this is if they want to make sure that you dont play or step on those areas.

 

Good luck finding guys on the mowers that know the rules on tee markers much less marking GUR.  Most courses only mark with spray paint when there is a tournament going on.

 

On 6/5/2021 at 2:36 AM, antip said:

Courses in Oz with crappy greens like that, and no money/resources to spend time painting the white paint on a regular basis, just post the following local rule "Bare patches on putting greens are GUR, relief is available under Rule 16.1d". Sometimes they may add - "Relief is not available for interference with stance only." It is that easy for a club/course/Committee to protect competition players from those problem areas. 

On 7/26/2021 at 7:44 AM, RCGA said:

 

The problem is, the course then has to publicly admit it's not in great shape and/or is too lazy to mark and remark GIR every few days. Most of this will remain GIR for years.

 

Exactly.  Not something you want to advertise on the back of your scorecard.  "Hey guys, the greens are perennially in such bad shape we have had to enact a local rule for them."

 

On 6/6/2021 at 7:00 AM, RCGA said:

I'd considering it GUR and move it as I see fit, regardless of the local rule. I'd also have no problem turning in the score for handicap purposes. 

 

I'd agree.  If you are playing a match with another player, agree ahead of time (if you know) or come to some kind of agreement when playing.  

 

On 7/24/2021 at 10:50 PM, abenjami said:

This is another example where the official rules fail to account for the simple fact that not every course has an active "committee" that reviews the questionable course areas on a daily basis.

 

Those greens look terrible.  If I came across one green like that on a course I could excuse it but if they all look similar, yikes man play a different course.

 

I play in a weekly wolf game with 3 close friends and we made up our own rule we call PGA conditions.  If we come across something that you'd never see a PGA player have to play from in a real tournament (like that green or obvious area under repair that isn't marked) then you get free relief no closer to the hole.

 

Maybe taking it a little farther than I would but if that is what you have agreed upon then rock on.  You guys have become your own tournament committee for your matches.  You are the committee in this sense.

 

On 7/25/2021 at 9:48 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

1) Personally I find that practice absurd. How 'equal' a course or comparable the results can be if everyone can decide where to get a free relief? How can you compare posted scores if the criteria of play has been different? Simply idiotic, IMHO.

 

2) Never been on a US public course but I can see a relatively simple solution that could easily be used by all of those courses. Draft a Local Rule allowing LC&P in all of the General Area. That should suffice.

 

1a)  They aren't equal.  Courses aren't equal even with slope and ratings.  Weather (which has some provisions to equalize) but also other conditions such as green speed and rough length and hole locations aren't and cannot be taken into consideration for handicapping purposes if that is what you are getting at.

 

1b) You can't.  But you never really could.  The criteria is always a little different. Handicap is an average of your scoring ability.  If you play it down and strictly by the rules then your handicap will be higher than someone who rolls it.  It benefits and behooves you to play it down.  With that said, if someone else is rolling it for their handicap you come out ahead.  Embrace it.

 

2)  That basically usurps the fundamental rule to play the ball as it lies and to keep your mitts off the ball until you get to the green.  (Also, the green is not part of the general area so your solution doesn't work there either.)

 

If you have never been on a US public course then you don't really have the frame of reference to understand why this is common and not unheard of not to mark these areas.  Most golfers here don't play with handicaps.  Most aren't playing matches.  You don't know the guys playing in front of or behind you and you have no obligation to play the way they are and vice versa.  You basically rent that spot on the course tee sheet and as long as you keep pace of play no one cares what or how you play.  

 

I have rarely seen GUR marked in non-tournament/event scenarios.  The few times it has been when there is relatively major work happening (such as sprinkler head replace) or where there is an area that is recently sodded or a place they are trying to keep traffic out of such as where cart travel has worn the grass down.  The latter being even more of an exception as courses will often just put up a barrier to carts but let you play from that area.