Dr Kwon

[leekgolf]

8 hours ago, munchies2x said:

 

Agree with this! Without him, I would have never known Monte, Malaska, Dana, Milo and Dr. Kwon, plus so many others. I would say 90% of his contents are worth watching, even more than once. Which I don't do with other Youtubers.

 

The BBG golf school is quite pricey imho, but if people have the money, then why not, it is a free country after all.

 

 

FWIW @glk pointed most of those guys out long before BBG had them on his YouTube Channel. He sent some Dr. Kwon videos two years ago or so.  

[johnrobison]

5 hours ago, airjammer said:

But are you better because you now know all of those other instructors?  
 

Doesn’t seem like he’s improved much over the years and I’m sure a good deal of that is because of his instructor jumping. The jumping is the reason for the popularity of his channel but in the grand scheme if things his swings looks virtually identical now vs when he started the channel.  I certainly hope there have been people who found instructors that they have stuck with because of his channel but I imagine for 99% of his viewers it turns out to be a path to a “rabbit hole”. 

The point of his channel was to expose his audience to as many theories and instructors as he could. I'm not sure about others but I actually don't like when he gets stuck on one for too long - I like hearing all the ideas out there, and the less conventional, the better.

[rondo01]

Oh, this thread is back to obsessing over Brendon? 

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, rondo01 said:

Oh, this thread is back to obsessing over Brendon? 

When pretty much every video he or Kwon drops to their channels gets posted here as free advertising a few posts out of 35 pages of them probably will only get him more attention, so I wouldn't worry for him too much, lol.  He'll be fine . . . in his way.

Edited March 7, 2022 by Hawkeye77

[rondo01]

23 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

When pretty much every video he or Kwon drops to their channels gets posted here as free advertising a few posts out of 35 pages of them probably will only get him more attention, so I wouldn't worry for him too much, lol.  He'll be fine . . . in his way.

has less to do with brendon, and more to do with the posters in this thread…

[Nels55]

I am about 6 weeks in to trying to apply Dr. Kwon's teaching to my swing.  LOL it's been a bit of a rough road to try to convert the idiot moves that I was making previously into a 'pro quality' swing.  So far I am seeing results while practicing and playing.  When I get it somewhere near right the shots are amazing.  At least to me anyway...  When I get the initial shift and a bit of re-centering I am effortlessly hitting the ball on line and far.  Far for me anyway.  Previously I hit a 6 iron 160 to 170 yards most of the time.  When I get this right I am easily flying it 190 yards on a solid hit.  LOL I have seen a few fly 200 yards on my skytrak.  This is not possible for me!  Except that apparently it is.  My biggest problem at the moment is reverting to my old wrong way hip movement no weight shift backswing without realizing it.  When I do that I start hooking the ball and losing distance when I do hit it on line.  

 

Anyway, I have some hope that I can get this movement pattern ingrained at some point and maybe become a bit of a ball striker.  I don't know if it is possible but I am planning to find out.

[munchies2x]

5 hours ago, airjammer said:

But are you better because you now know all of those other instructors?  
 

Doesn’t seem like he’s improved much over the years and I’m sure a good deal of that is because of his instructor jumping. The jumping is the reason for the popularity of his channel but in the grand scheme if things his swings looks virtually identical now vs when he started the channel.  I certainly hope there have been people who found instructors that they have stuck with because of his channel but I imagine for 99% of his viewers it turns out to be a path to a “rabbit hole”. 

 

Good question!

 

Those instructors have given me the opportunities to try different possibilities and significantly advanced my knowledge in golf swing in comparison to where I started years ago. Even when I failed I gained some understanding. For me understanding is the most important of them all. I can't swing without understanding the move I am trying to do, but once I get the understanding and the feeling associated with it, I will not lose it.

 

And for me, Dr. Kwon is huge, he has greatly advanced my knowledge on the golf swing theory (i.e. torque, moment arm and force concept) and the drill to get the feeling (the barbell drill).

 

So to answer your question, I would say so!

 

 

[RichieHunt]

Brendon's channel continues to improve.  He's got a real faculty for being able to take a nuanced subject and get it down to the nuts and bolts.  It's not about 'using layman terminology' but more about getting the viewer an initial understanding of the subject and advance their understanding as other videos go along.  

 

He's clearly learned from his past mistakes and how to create better content.

 

I've only been practicing sporadically due to weather, lack of time and issues with my right shoulder and elbow (those are slowly improving).  I have been using the Tour Tempo app in order to get my butt moving faster in the backswing.  I've found that turning so at p4 the trail shoulder is closer to the target than the lead shoulder is imperative.  My main problem I think is that I shift the pressure in transition too late.  I don't feel like I'm opening up too soon anymore, but I'm just too late on the shift forward and pushing off the lead foot.

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Duffer Mark]

I went to PGA superstore tonight to hit balls in a bay. In 30 minutes, I had one mediocre drive it maybe two good 7-irons. I recently watched some videos on Golf Smart Academy for the week. Good stuff. 
 

Overall, I feel like I just started playing golf a week ago. I’ve got a million swing thoughts and nothing feels right. The only swings that felt smooth were when I did Kwon’s stage three drill but I couldn’t transition that into hitting balls. 
 

Maybe I’ll just focus on step drills for the next couple weeks. 

[Nels55]

A really interesting explanation of what happens when a skilled golfer hits long drives while kneeling.  LOL after watching this I have a slightly better understanding of the torques generated during a golf swing.

 

[munchies2x]

This took me a while to understand to,... here is my interpretation after watching part 3 multiple times....

The first pic shows what torque is, when a force is applied at angular/rotational plane then the torque is generated upward or downward depending on the rotation (clockwise or counter-clockwise).

 

The second pic shows that a horizontal circular rotation (i.e. imagine just swinging in horizontal plane with your shoulder when standing upright) will produce an upward torque - Mz. This is the exact force that Martin Borgmeier mainly utilised when hitting driver kneeling with purely horizontal circular rotation. If you look at Dr. Kwon's chart above, I have added the green line to show rotational plane to generate the Mz force.

 

To generate Gx, a golfer need to 'rotate' in a vertical swing plane (the red plane), and this is the one that Dr. Kwon is mainly advocating on in his drills. This is the "push up" movement.

 

If I get what he is saying correctly. a golfer would need the right proportion between Mz and Gx to generate the correct M which will be your swing plane (the blue line in 3rd pic). Too much Mz which can be generated by brute force/muscle will make the golfer to miss the ball completely as the swing plane would be far to high above the ball. The correct proportion between Mz and Gx is needed so the golfer can actually hit the ball.

 

Back to Mr. Borgmeier example, if he utilises the same identical force when he was kneeling to when he is standing, then he will miss the ball completely because his swing will be to flat. So he need to add Gx, reduce Mz to where the two forces match and generate M. The only way a person can incorporate more Mz is by increasing his Gz proportionally as well. Dr. Kwon believes that for majority of people, it is quite easy to generate Mz, but not Gx, hence he is mainly focusing for student to increase this force.

 

P.S. Hope I got it right!

 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by munchies2x

[munchies2x]

15 hours ago, Billywhizz said:

With regards Borgmeier, if he stood up I imagine his forward posture would be greater , therefore rotation about his spine would not be in such a horizontal plane (from our own perspective his torso rotational plane would be more inclined with the ground).  From his own perspective , he is still probably rotating his torso like he did when he was kneeling.

 

So I'm still confused how a golfer whose pelvis/ribcage is likely to rotate on a horizontal plane can create clubhead speed in a more vertical plane .  Doesn't this mean that the golfer is swinging his arms up and down in the frontal plane independent of his body pivot?  But that would mean an arm swing rather than a body driven swing.

 

I suspect you can have more secondary tilt and also lateral side flexion which could change the plane of your upper torso rotation to make it more vertical. Also you could tilt your pelvis up and down rather than spin it .

 

Look at DJ's flexible spine where his upper torso seems to be rotating like a Ferris wheel.  My spine would break into tiny pieces doing that move.

 

 

 

Thanks, yes, you are correct about the force direction from clockwise or counter-clockwise movement. I guess I was trying to emphasis mainly on the planes (horizontal, vertical and the swing plane).

 

If Mr. Borgmeier is standing erect and he utilises the same force (at the same intensity), his swing would look like this (note: pic is a bit exaggeration to make this a bit more visual):

 

About your DJ example, I think you have answered your own question. In reality, we have bend and a tilt on normal golf swing as to allow our arm and club to reach the ball on the ground. There is no golfer that swing (even a beginner) with 100% Mz or 100% Gx, everyone will start with a combination of both and generate M.

 

The rotation of the pelvis will produce different torque depending of the angle of the body (bend), standing up it will produce mainly Mz but a bend will produce Gx. It is impossible not to.

 

Any scientific illustration will show the 100% of the opposite end, but we as human tend to be somewhere in the spectrum. (P.S. It is actually impossible to produce 100% Gx as the feet would need to levitate at 9 o'clock and the arm to be perpendicular to the ball!).

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by munchies2x

[NevinW]

Is there one video that people would recommend that best demonstrates the Kwon step drills?

[Nels55]

28 minutes ago, NevinW said:

Is there one video that people would recommend that best demonstrates the Kwon step drills?

All of the videos that I have seen that demonstrate the step drills are good and there are a lot of them.  I think that the best thing to do is to find one with a golfer who is similar in build and ability level to yourself.  

Here is a 13 handicapper:

 

Here is a zero handicap:

 

 

There are many more that I have looked and many that I have not seen some with bigger golfers and some with smaller golfers, everyone from aspiring pros to juniors to old guys like me.  LOL I will look around for one that might be suitable if you want to mention your skill level, age and body type?  Otherwise any of the teaching videos in this thread are good along with all of the others on youtube...

[NevinW]

"There are many more that I have looked and many that I have not seen some with bigger golfers and some with smaller golfers, everyone from aspiring pros to juniors to old guys like me.  LOL I will look around for one that might be suitable if you want to mention your skill level, age and body type?  Otherwise any of the teaching videos in this thread are good along with all of the others on youtube..."

 

Thank you these videos are exactly what I was looking for.  For what it is worth, I'm a 66 year old 3 handicap with diminishing clubhead speed.  Body type is completely medium:  5'10", 175 lbs. 

 

Edited March 15, 2022 by NevinW

[RobertBaron]

Milo Lines just put this out which has some pretty nice variations on Dr Kwon's step drills

 

 

[RobertBaron]

31 minutes ago, Billywhizz said:

After looking at this Dr Kwon/Be Better Golf video  there is no way I can get my spine vertically inclined like he suggests  in the backswing (almost like a reverse pivot).

I think that’s more of a feel vs real kinda thing. Watching a few of the elite players’ after swings, they look more like Tiger and Hogan than vertically inclined. Basically Dr Kwon is trying to get you how to feel as if you are transferring weight forward while still turning back so it leads to a feel of “backing” into impact or a counterfall feel. More to the point it eliminates the hit impulse of using your hands and arms in favor of the body ie the big muscles swinging the arms. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, Billywhizz said:

After looking at this Dr Kwon/Be Better Golf video  there is no way I can get my spine vertically inclined like he suggests  in the backswing (almost like a reverse pivot).

 

I'm just not made that way and am a  'leaning away from the target' type.

 

 

 

Here's a few elite golfers who lean away from the target in the backswing.

 

It is impossible to calculate spine inclination from still pictures.  Dr. Kwon bases his swing mechanics on data obtained from a sophisticated 3D measuring system.  

 

It is possible that both of the players pictured spines actually do incline towards the target at some moment in the swing, the only way to know would be to do the analysis.  When I was a member of AMG+ they claimed that tour pros typical incline their spine toward the target by somewhere around 2 degrees when measured by GEARS. 

 

If you keep your head still after doing the initial shift of weight into the trail side then you will have a slight bit of reverse tilt as Kwon calls it.  On the other hand if you shift your head back or you don't shift your weight back by getting into your trail hip joint then you wont.  LOL I can tell you that in my experience leaning the other way a lot is a swing killer.

[skraly]

1 hour ago, Billywhizz said:

After looking at this Dr Kwon/Be Better Golf video  there is no way I can get my spine vertically inclined like he suggests  in the backswing (almost like a reverse pivot).

 

I'm just not made that way and am a  'leaning away from the target' type.

 

 

 

Here's a few elite golfers who lean away from the target in the backswing.

 

Your pics of Hogan and Woods show them having  already moved into the down swing sequence.   They have recentered and the forward movement of their hips is now beginning to change the spine angle more vertical and it will eventually tilt slightly away from the target.  However, a pic taken just before the top of the swing and before recentering has occured will show a more vertical spine angle even perhaps slightly tilted toward the target.  Like this-

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by skraly

[Nels55]

There is a good explanation of re-centering in this video starting at about the 35 minute mark:

 

[bd59]

I find it interesting that Dr.Kwon pushes the idea of the left tilt of the shoulders in the BS compared with Dana’s teaching.  Dana has said he never tells anyone to tilt the shoulders(ie left shoulder down) because it shuts off rotation. Kind of mixed thoughts here unless I’m missing something. Overall I love both of their teachings but I’m a guy that gets the arms trapped behind the body in the DS. 

[BottleCap]

11 minutes ago, bd59 said:

I find it interesting that Dr.Kwon pushes the idea of the left tilt of the shoulders in the BS compared with Dana’s teaching.  Dana has said he never tells anyone to tilt the shoulders(ie left shoulder down) because it shuts off rotation. Kind of mixed thoughts here unless I’m missing something. Overall I love both of their teachings but I’m a guy that gets the arms trapped behind the body in the DS. 

Dana also says there are other ways to hit a golf ball

[PJ1120]

4 hours ago, BottleCap said:

Dana also says there are other ways to hit a golf ball

 

Which means what?

[glk]

5 hours ago, bd59 said:

I find it interesting that Dr.Kwon pushes the idea of the left tilt of the shoulders in the BS compared with Dana’s teaching.  Dana has said he never tells anyone to tilt the shoulders(ie left shoulder down) because it shuts off rotation. Kind of mixed thoughts here unless I’m missing something. Overall I love both of their teachings but I’m a guy that gets the arms trapped behind the body in the DS. 

Dana doesn’t want people to left tilt early in takeaway.    Dana folks get plenty of left tilt it just happens later in backswing more after p2.

[PracticeSwinger]

51 minutes ago, 68onFriday said:

A natural Kwon step for momentum disciple in the making.🤣

 

Late with the recentering, unweighting phase and lead side pressure... no future for that dude! 

[bd59]

Is Kwons stuff a bit extreme ? Can’t tell from all the sarcasm. Serious ? His teaching seems a bit tough to time and sequence with all the continuous motion. 

[RobertBaron]

I find it about as extreme as throwing a football. 
 

The timing is only difficult because most players ie the recreational mid-high handicappers treat the golf swing differently than throwing a ball. Especially the sequence. Most players start transferring to the lead side way too late in the backswing or there’s no separation at all and they fire everything at once from the top. 
 

Whenever I’m at the course and see someone working on their swing, specifically their position at the top, they almost 100% of the time never incorporate the recentering move. It’s always like club parallel at the top and 90% loaded on the trail leg. Everyone’s working on a position they should never be in. 
 

So when you come to the realization that you’re probably always terribly late transitioning to the lead side, Kwon’s timing all kinda clicks. 
 

Really it’s just about getting a flow and rhythm into the swing like cracking a whip. You can’t crack a whip if it’s all moving together. 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, bd59 said:

Is Kwons stuff a bit extreme ? Can’t tell from all the sarcasm. Serious ? His teaching seems a bit tough to time and sequence with all the continuous motion. 

I believe that Kwon's teaching is correct.  LOL there are a lot of wrong ways to swing and one right way.  At the golf course I see a lot of wrong ways that are incredibly hard to sequence and time and those swings result in constant suffering for the folks using them.  It is my opinion that the closer one gets to the right way the easier golf becomes.

[RobertBaron]

Looks like Drew Cooper is doing some work with Dr Kwon for BBG

 

Can’t wait!

[RichieHunt]

On 3/16/2022 at 2:48 PM, bd59 said:

Is Kwons stuff a bit extreme ? Can’t tell from all the sarcasm. Serious ? His teaching seems a bit tough to time and sequence with all the continuous motion. 

 

It's not extreme, but it's not easy to do because sequencing properly and efficiently isn't easy to do.  That's a big reason why the game is difficult.  But no matter who is teaching you or what system/method they are teaching...the sequencing is going to be the most difficult part to get down.  

 

I think Dr. Kwon's work provides an easier path to get the sequencing correct as well as how to train sequencing compared to other teaching where there is no 'continuous motion' and it's a lot of focus on arm swing and the hands.

 

 

 

 

RH