Dr Kwon

[Simpsonia]

3 minutes ago, Nykt1000 said:

 

My backswing already has decent pace on it so the drills and  having the rocking trigger helps my flow and my shift + turn. Going faster I lose my swing. To be able to go faster I need to practice more, but I don't.

 

Drew Cooper mentions he has a regular golf swing and a long drive swing that you always see and the difference is how fast his backswing is. 

 

One thing that he did mention in another video that I thought was interesting is that he feels all effort in the backswing to be done by P2, and that P2 to P4 is all braking force to slow the club down and change directions. 

[Kaiser Golf]

All I know is I know teach this method and have been Kwonified and I also learn from George Gankas. Bottom line is this 3 steep, footwork, fasterback swing, recentering and let it go around the lead legs works and is easy for the students I have had the pleasure to work with so far. Especially older guys who have lost speed. I gets your swing on a better plane, improves your rotation and for sure your foot work if you take it seriously and you don't have the time to get in your own way swinging. Here is an example of the best increase I have had so far with a student (BTW I improved with Gankas from 84 to 94 and stuck) then started do Kwon and got to 107 at age 61 - just to be very clear).

This student Flynn C started at a crazy high 125 and got to 144 - I have data to prove it and this particular video was done on my Uneekor sim showing 130 mph on hole one at Augusta - smash here is only 131 so left a lot of meat on the bone but shows all data at the end.

Need to have my sim on TGC 2019 to capture these moving forward so I can show a cool video like this. But Flynn C did hit a 144 and a 141. And I think he can get to 150 once he really gets his torso around. Enjoy! 

This is from the 385 tees BTW.

 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Kaiser Golf
Forgot hole yardage

[Duffer Mark]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CVn1axEDHif/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

I've posted the above drill before but I did it several times today. I was able to pump the downswing three times, then hit a drive and carry the ball 200 yards. Of course, the sequencing doesn't hold up with I swing normally. Sigh...

[RichieHunt]

Played 18 holes on Sunday and this was my 2nd time playing 18 this year.  I wanted to get out and play on Saturday because I was swinging beautifully and my shoulder and elbow weren't bothering me.  But on Sunday I was swing 'okay' and my shoulder and elbow were getting a little cranky.

 

I have a scoring system I created called the 5/2 score.  +3 points if you have an eagle putt 5-paces (15-feet) or lesst, +2 points for a birdie putt 5-paces, +1 point for a par save 2 paces (6-feet) and if none of those occur, take away -3 points.  You can only have 1 score per hole (so if you have a 12-foot birdie putt and then miss the putt and tap-in for par, you only get +2 points for the birdie putt 5-paces away).  

A 5/2 score of +10 for 18 holes means that from tee-to-green you played well enough to shoot even par.  Anything more than +10, subtract -0.35 strokes and that will be your score under par.  Anything less than +10, multiply that by 0.35 strokes and that is what score you played to over par.

 

For 9 holes, you just cut the scores in half (+5 for 9 holes equates to even par).

 

Anyway, I was +11 in the 5/2 score after 8 holes.  However, I was +1 over par as I was putting poorly.  I haven't practiced putting that much and the greens were still bumpy from the latest aeration.  

 

After 8 holes I had hit 6 GIR and stuck most of those shots close.  The greens I did miss were off perfect drives.  I struck a PW well on #3, but pulled it.  Then on #6, I tried to knock down an 8-iron and between working on this new stuff and the difficulty I have knocking down irons with my JumboMax grips, it was an awful shot.

 

Then things fell apart.  I started to get tired and some old habits creeped in.  Typically my biggest issue is getting the body tilts, in particular getting enough left knee flexion, at p4.  It doesn't allow me to sequence the pressure shift properly.

 

One shot that really pleased me was on the 10th hole.  I had 139 yards into a 2+ club wind.  I had to hit the shot over a tall pine tree.  I pulled out 9-iron because I thought if I moved the ball up in my stance and tried to hit it as high as I possibly could that it would make it over the pine tree.  However, I knew it was gong to end up well short of the green.

 

So I hit the shot as high as I could and it actually caught a few pine needles.  I figured it was well short of the green, but in good shape.  Nope...It was about 12 yards past the hole.  So I just hit a 151 yard 9-iron that caught some pine needles into a 2+club head wind.  Normally I hit my 9-iron about 152 yards with no wind and a medium trajectory.  I know that hitting irons long has nothing to do with iron proficiency, but it showed that when you get the shifts and sequencing pretty good how much power can be generated.

 

The big thing for me once I get the tilts correct is to not 'spin out' the shoulders too soon.  I understand that is some sequencing issues causing that, but when done correctly and then making the 'frisbee throw', the power, the trajectory and how easy it is to hit a baby draw are quite fantastic to experience.

 

I did watch one of the latest BBG videos where Dr. Kwon discusses the early pressure shift w/o moving your head to that side.  It's more of a bump of the hips than anything.  That has helped me, but that's where I get some issues with my body tilts at p4.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

 

 

[sociojeje]

On 4/23/2022 at 11:13 AM, Dumpedunder said:

When doing step drills, make sure you’re focused on a spot in the ground. It’ll keep you in enough forward bend.

 

At first, because you’re moving around so much making this dynamic movement, you can get pulled off the ball if you’re not keeping yourself “in the shot.”

Things are much better now. It was tough to think many things but now the move feels very natural and I can focus on the target! Driver swing feels so much easier but still the same max ss. I can go even higher but my joints don't like it haha

[MK7Golf21]

I had been doing these drills to free up my swing. Seems to really help with that.

Edited April 28, 2022 by MK7Golf21

[Rdailey9108]

I feel like anytime I add any flow in my swing my hips get involved too early in the backswing. 

[Liveonce]

Where is the pressure in the left foot when recentering/transition? Left heel?

[glk]

11 minutes ago, Liveonce said:

Where is the pressure in the left foot when recentering/transition? Left heel?

Moves to ball of left foot.  How quickly it gets to the heel depends.

Edited April 29, 2022 by glk

[MK7Golf21]

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CdEmt_jlAsD/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

he went against the Justin rose drill and kwons keeping back to target all in one Instagram post. 

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CdEmt_jlAsD/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

he went against the Justin rose drill and kwons keeping back to target all in one Instagram post. 

And that doesn't mean his statements are supported by the facts. The funny part is he is actually doing the stuff he says are myths, they are just compound movements so they look "different" than the isolated moves. Basically his G-box wont work at all if you don't bring the arms down at some point, he's just bringing them down while also working the wrists. He then goes on to say this is "natural", even though he needs not 1 but 2 different devices to get into this "natural" position.

 

I have no qualms with Gankas or his pattern, but some of his claims are unsubstantiated. 

[Golfbeat]

25 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

https://www.instagram.com/tv/CdEmt_jlAsD/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

he went against the Justin rose drill and kwons keeping back to target all in one Instagram post. 

 

Wow, that video just confused the heck out of me. What a ramble.

[Simpsonia]

24 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

And that doesn't mean his statements are supported by the facts. The funny part is he is actually doing the stuff he says are myths, they are just compound movements so they look "different" than the isolated moves. Basically his G-box wont work at all if you don't bring the arms down at some point, he's just bringing them down while also working the wrists. He then goes on to say this is "natural", even though he needs not 1 but 2 different devices to get into this "natural" position.

 

I have no qualms with Gankas or his pattern, but some of his claims are unsubstantiated. 

 

Pretty much this. After he goes through the myth he talks about hand path and how the only way to prevent it from going out too much is to do the "yo-yo" move, which is just pulling the arms down. It seems like he's getting to the same place for the most part, but filtered through his own personal sequence feels. Justin Rose has to feel the arms pull down early to prevent the spin-out. Gankas needs to feel the pull down late, for whatever reason. 

 

This has got to be one of the hardest parts of golf instruction I imagine. Every instructor has their own feels that works for them, but need to divorce those feels from the instruction because their students might need completely different feels to get to the same place. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Simpsonia

[Krt22]

7 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Pretty much this. After he goes through the myth he talks about hand path and how the only way to prevent it from going out too much is to do the "yo-yo" move, which is just pulling the arms down. It seems like he's getting to the same place for the most part, but filtered through his own personal sequence feels. Justin Rose has to feel the arms pull down early to prevent the spin-out. Gankas needs to feel the pull down late, for whatever reason. 

Exactly, the yo yo is just that, pulling down the arms. His 3-piece helicopter swing the first move is the arms moving straight up, if the arms move straight up to start, by definition they need to pull down at some point. You could be gumby and not have enough left bend to get to the ball without that happening at sometime.

 

I think you are exactly right, the concept he teaches are not radically different than the one's he is saying are "myths", he just uses his own vernacular (and pricey training aids) to make it sound unique (or that is just what works for him as you said). I would love to see him get in Kwon's lab or on a GEARS system and get some data to back his claims. My bet is in 3D at full speed, his pattern would have more similarities than differences than the patterns he says are based on these so called myths. 

Edited May 2, 2022 by Krt22

[Nels55]

3 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Pretty much this. After he goes through the myth he talks about hand path and how the only way to prevent it from going out too much is to do the "yo-yo" move, which is just pulling the arms down. It seems like he's getting to the same place for the most part, but filtered through his own personal sequence feels. Justin Rose has to feel the arms pull down early to prevent the spin-out. Gankas needs to feel the pull down late, for whatever reason. 

 

This has got to be one of the hardest parts of golf instruction I imagine. Every instructor has their own feels that works for them, but need to divorce those feels from the instruction because their students might need completely different feels to get to the same place. 

 

 

 

It seems like Kwon is basing his swing model on actual data from tour pros.  From what I have seen his teaching method tends to get his students closer to the model which is probably a good thing.  I have thought at times while watching videos that possibly his teaching may be colored a bit by the feels that work for him but I think that for the most part he is pretty straight forward.

 

I found the Gankas video a bit confusing and your explanation makes a lot of sense to me anyway...

[RobertBaron]

From a what I've seen, especially with Dr Kwon on BBG, Dr Kwon's methods don't seem very compatible with Gankas's stuff. There was a BBG video where Dr Kwon looked like he was doing some variation of the Gankas pivot and said "this is very bad"

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, RobertBaron said:

From a what I've seen, especially with Dr Kwon on BBG, Dr Kwon's methods don't seem very compatible with Gankas's stuff. There was a BBG video where Dr Kwon looked like he was doing some variation of the Gankas pivot and said "this is very bad"

This is why I would very much like to see Gankas on a 3D capture system. Kwon/AMG/DD/Drew Cooper/Monte all teach this extend/flex/extend pivot while Gankas players very much do the same thing at the macro level. How he explains it differs for sure, with the main difference being the pronounced pressure shift into the lead side, but I wonder if at speed it's really all that different. 

[Simpsonia]

29 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

This is why I would very much like to see Gankas on a 3D capture system. Kwon/AMG/DD/Drew Cooper/Monte all teach this extend/flex/extend pivot while Gankas players very much do the same thing at the macro level. How he explains it differs for sure, with the main difference being the pronounced pressure shift into the lead side, but I wonder if at speed it's really all that different. 

 

Given Matt Wolff's distance given his size, and even just looking at his swing, he uses his pressure almost as good as Rory does, so I can't imagine the "Gankas Pivot" is more than a feel at best. 

[Soloman1]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

This is why I would very much like to see Gankas on a 3D capture system. Kwon/AMG/DD/Drew Cooper/Monte all teach this extend/flex/extend pivot while Gankas players very much do the same thing at the macro level. How he explains it differs for sure, with the main difference being the pronounced pressure shift into the lead side, but I wonder if at speed it's really all that different. 

 

I’ll go out to socal and capture him on 3D, if he wants. He’d transform from feel to real quickly and it would validate his method.

[airjammer]

1 hour ago, RobertBaron said:

From a what I've seen, especially with Dr Kwon on BBG, Dr Kwon's methods don't seem very compatible with Gankas's stuff. There was a BBG video where Dr Kwon looked like he was doing some variation of the Gankas pivot and said "this is very bad"

The thing about kwon that always confuses me is when someone naturally starts squatting doing the step drills and he’s always quick to stop them saying because it causes the ground forces to be late. There isn’t a long driver that doesn’t squat and their forces are the earliest of all golfers…so what do they do differently I wonder?

 

Also Drew cooper went straight from a bbg kwon school where he was told to delay opening of the shoulders to lesson Dana where Dana was having him open his shoulders again. 
 

so again we are at the cross roads of it’s all about the matchups individual coaches prefer 

[airjammer]

7 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I’ll go out to socal and capture him on 3D, if he wants. He’d transform from feel to real quickly and it would validate his method.

He obviously doesn’t want to do that or he would have. It’s not like he hasn’t been to world class facilities while traveling to coach his players from time to time. 
 

i’d just be curious of his reasoning for not showing any 3d data after all these years. But to be far Dana hasn’t done it either and I think he had a myswing3d system at one time or had access to one. 

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

I’ll go out to socal and capture him on 3D, if he wants. He’d transform from feel to real quickly and it would validate his method.

That would be very cool. Objective measurements tend to settle debates pretty quickly.

[Kaiser Golf]

OK here is proof #Kwonification works. I'm Level 2 kwonified and can increase your club speed too teaching kwonification (reprogramming your swing)

https://myuneekor.com/report?i=4690&k=LJYeaAqIYqfR5

 

Here is Flynn C - went from first swings of 125 Club head Speed (shot # 4)- then we did reprogramming swing (keetle bell, rope swing and 3 step drills) and then he did 138 - and on shot 15 did 144. (See shot #15). I use a Uneekor system that captures club head position (Optix) , Swing video and a bunch of data. Even captured the rope swing drill shot #6. It is all about doing the drills, feeling the continuous motion, mature back swing (which is decentering - the rope teaches you how to feel this) and doing it correctly. Flynn C still has work to do to harness his new found 144 mph swing. Played the next day with him and he was all over the place, drove over a 311 yard par 4 that is 20 ft higher than the tee box and was hitting a 9 iron 205 on a par three pin high. The speed is for real, but controlling it will take a lot of work. I'm hitting it up to 107 mph myself from a 94 clubhead speed. This is more than I had in college and I'm 61 now. As Dr. Kwon sez. If your heart is closed you will never understand his teaching. This is real and the link is the proof and I saw it on course the next day.

[RobertBaron]

36 minutes ago, airjammer said:

The thing about kwon that always confuses me is when someone naturally starts squatting doing the step drills and he’s always quick to stop them saying because it causes the ground forces to be late. There isn’t a long driver that doesn’t squat and their forces are the earliest of all golfers…so what do they do differently I wonder?

 

Also Drew cooper went straight from a bbg kwon school where he was told to delay opening of the shoulders to lesson Dana where Dana was having him open his shoulders again. 
 

so again we are at the cross roads of it’s all about the matchups individual coaches prefer 

I don’t have the answer but I imagine it has something to do with Dr Kwon trying to reprogram a non elite long drive player’s poorly sequenced, flow lacking arm driven swing. Long driver competitors probably already have a body driven well sequenced swing a mid capper doesn’t have. 

i don’t know personally, but it’s also possible the long drive swing isn’t all that great for the health of your body long term and Dr Kwon is trying to promote a swing that’s not only effective but safe as well. 

 

[Soloman1]

Dana used it with his customers and they loved it. Everyone has different issues and documenting/ editing video of it can be time consuming.

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Pretty much this. After he goes through the myth he talks about hand path and how the only way to prevent it from going out too much is to do the "yo-yo" move, which is just pulling the arms down. It seems like he's getting to the same place for the most part, but filtered through his own personal sequence feels. Justin Rose has to feel the arms pull down early to prevent the spin-out. Gankas needs to feel the pull down late, for whatever reason. 

What he’s talking about with the arms is gold. I’m not on board with all of his preferences but it seems that he’s evolved in a good way recently, teaching players to keep some hip flexion in the backswing instead of the stand up and over tilt the torso toward the target, spinning a level pelvis shadow drill move.
 

But what he’s saying about the arms is phenomenal. The right arm unfolding toward the bottom is not pulling the arms down. This is how the club overtakes without doing the Malaska move, throwing the right wrist angle etc. Straightening or unfolding the trail arm is the release. But if you do it early, you have to have the matchups that coincide. 

 

Here is what people don’t understand about the move he is talking about. Dana teaches the same as well as Josh Koch. The lead arm floats as the trunk lowers or re-flexes. It even elevates in some cases. It does not pull down. Arms stay level with the shoulder plan or elevate a little as the body lowers.  Once the trunk lowers delivery posture has been established and then it’s possible to rotate while unfolding the trail arm. People work on lowering the arms too early and stand up and wonder why they early extend.
 

This is why teachers who advocate lowering the arms early talk so much about not right tilting. If you pull down and do that it’s really bad. They guys on tour who actually pull down have more level shoulders. Rory, Justin Rose, Sergio to name a few. It is very hard for me not to early extend doing that pattern. Justin Rose actually does early extend. 
 

I say that not with the intent on selling anyone on anything, but just sharing my experience. Swing how you want to swing. 

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

But what he’s saying about the arms is phenomenal. The right arm unfolding toward the bottom is not pulling the arms down. 

The thing is when he first demonstrated the "bad arm pull down" he unfolded trail arm in the same exact manner, then said this by itself  somehow prevents rotation, which really isn't true. The only difference with his arm move is he combines it with the wrist conditions, which other instructors do as well, they may just segment the movements to explain them independently since learning two new movements is very hard for most

 

Same thing with the getting weight/pressure into the lead side. He said this is a steepening move, which by itself is true, but it also isn't taught as a singular motion, it's taught along with proper arm/wrist motions to shallow the shaft.

 

So I'm really not sure if the pattern he teaches is intrinsically dramatically different than the "myths" he downplays, or if the major difference is in how he prefers to teach them as compound movements vs breaking things down into components.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nard_S]

5 hours ago, Krt22 said:

So I'm really not sure if the pattern he teaches is intrinsically dramatically different than the "myths" he downplays, or if the major difference is in how he prefers to teach them as compound movements vs breaking things down into components.

Exactly how I see it.

 

 

[MPStrat]

7 hours ago, Krt22 said:

The thing is when he first demonstrated the "bad arm pull down" he unfolded trail arm in the same exact manner, then said this by itself  somehow prevents rotation, which really isn't true. The only difference with his arm move is he combines it with the wrist conditions, which other instructors do as well, they may just segment the movements to explain them independently since learning two new movements is very hard for most

Can you see the difference here? Lead arm is lower on the body, higher right shoulder. More extended lead wrist lag, no shallowing. Sergio’s is shallow because it’s so laid off at the top but he doesn’t actually shallow he just lowers the arms.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by MPStrat

[MPStrat]

Versus... brooks, DJ and Fleetwood. Lead arm higher up on the chest relative to the shoulder plane, more flexed lead wrist, more rotation