Dr Kwon

[Zitlow]

9 minutes ago, glk said:

Bryson has been at dr Kwon multiple times with Chris Como.  I doubt he is moving inefficiently

 

I get what you're saying, I just pointed out that Bryson could move his lower body more efficiently. Has Bryson moved on from Dr. Kwon or does he still see him? 

 

Austin moves like a Ferrari vs Bryson's Mack truck. His right side starting from the ground is applying energy to the ball, he's not retaining energy in his lower right side like Bryson does. 

 

 

Even though I like aspects of Dr. Kwon's concept that line up with what Austin was doing. Using the lower body to move the upper body, the body swinging the arms and using speed to create quickness and momentum. That's where the comparison ends. 

[airjammer]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Bryson looks like a Mack truck. He'd fly the ball a lot farther if he used his legs and hips more efficiently. 

 

 

 

 

Austin used his lower body to move his upper body 

Bryson DTL SloMo.gif - Shortcut.lnk 1.47 kB · 0 downloads

Bryson is using his lower body to move his upper body. He’s using the stretch shortening cycle if his muscles to cause his shoulders to rotate.  I can’t see how he could improve. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[glk]

1 hour ago, KD1 said:

Anyone know if Kyle Berkshire ever worked with Dr Kwon? His alma mater UNT is in the same city as TWU.

Don't know but Jamie Sadlowski has been in his lab along with some other long drive folks.     This wasn't so much to do step drills but as part of Dr. Kwon research - he started to bring in tour players and long drive folks around 2014 I believe - he has a list on his website under the swing analysis page.    On the Mike Beaumont podcast he talks a bit about this and with Como - he said tour players are pretty resistant to changing much and that bringing them into his lab was more to gain data on really efficient swings with multiple styles.  He'd get them into his 3D stuff and force plates.      I don't know how frequently if at all he updates the list.

[Zitlow]

Economy of Motion refers to the efficiency at which somebody moves from one point to another. In golf the idea is to deliver deliver energy to the golf ball without a lot of wasted effort. 

 

Which one looks more efficient?

 

 

[ALIF]

I’d rather have Bryson’s swing honestly.

[CasualLie]

14 hours ago, Nels55 said:

The true test!  There are several levels to hitting the ball I think:

1) First in this case is doing the no ball drills and then transferring the new move to actual ball striking:

2) Hitting the ball in the practice area with the instructor there. 

3) Hitting  the ball in a practice area with no instructor. 

4) Hitting the ball while playing a nice relaxed round with friends. 

5) Hitting the ball in tournament conditions.

6) Hitting the ball a month or a year or more later with the new move ingrained.

 

For the hard to change body movement I have never really been past 2 since my first set of lessons 40 years ago and usually get stuck on number 1.  LOL I have a rather ingrained body movement that is not optimal but lets me hit the ball and changing it so far at least seems to be impossible no matter how many drills I do.  

 

 

This is so close to 100% true.  The only variable is some learn faster/ progress than others.

 

As far as Brendon doing air swings, it's entertaining and all, the info from Dr. Kwon is great, but this is so far from a "fix" for Brendon it really does not matter.  As someone pointed out above, how can he improve with so many different instructors?  Of course, he cannot.  But that really isn't the point...it's the YouTube brand.  And good for him.  He's exposed the internet to many great instructors.

 

AMG guys had me doing the step drill in the beginning and I did it a lot  - pretty much "mastered" it, if that's possible.  Then I went to the band drills; that's where things got a little sideways.  And if I am at the range and dare try to sort out in my head this re-centering stuff, forget it, it's a miracle to hit a ball.  So I don't do it; do not think about it at the range much.  Certainly not while hitting the ball.  Once in awhile go back to the step drill, and can hit a ball...it helps when I feel way off and need to a quick "reset".

 

I really cannot describe the "how", other than to say faith, but it seems to me there are a handful of these drills that are very good at ingraining a feel in your body.  You work on them, just get the feel, repeat x 1000s over time.  But when it comes time to hit a ball, the conscious thought of a drill has to go away.  You just take on faith those feelings and movements are going to be there while you are focused on the task at hand - ball/target. The video will tell you whether or not these drills have seeped in and how much.

 

It's a tough game when you analyze it, but on the other hand, a very simple game in terms of strategy when you play.  When it comes to what I really work on, what matters the most, is can I score well with wedge in hand.

 

[Soloman1]

Austin is hitting a persimmon wood and steel shaft (different MOI, shaft response and AoA) on a different plane with a different body type and different muscular structure. Different animals.

[tthomasgolfer605]

5 hours ago, KD1 said:

He's better than he used to be but he still does manage to steer the conversations when I'd rather he let the instructors do so.

 

It's especially cringey when he's recording an interaction between an instructor and another student and he interrupts.

Some have said Brendon's very rude when working with him. To be honest, I can't stand him. Although I would like to see another match between him and The my swing evolution dude shooting in the mid 40's for nine holes with a few bucks on the line. 🙄 

[Nels55]

Dr. Kwon's work brings to mind a few questions rattling around in my cranium:

Are the pro swing mechanics identified by Kwon and others using hi tech analysis actually better for those of us who are less gifted?

Do Dr. Kwon's students who are average golfers to start with end up with swings that are biomechanically better and similar to the pro swings that Dr. Kwon has studied?

Do those students actually improve and lower their handicap indexes or do they just look better?

 

 

 

[yoose]

5 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Dr. Kwon's work brings to mind a few questions rattling around in my cranium:

Are the pro swing mechanics identified by Kwon and others using hi tech analysis actually better for those of us who are less gifted?

Do Dr. Kwon's students who are average golfers to start with end up with swings that are biomechanically better and similar to the pro swings that Dr. Kwon has studied?

Do those students actually improve and lower their handicap indexes or do they just look better?

 

 

 

I’d also be interested to know how long he works with some of them. Is it a long term thing or do they just go in for the initial analysis. 

[Zitlow]

34 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

Austin is hitting a persimmon wood and steel shaft (different MOI, shaft response and AoA) on a different plane with a different body type and different muscular structure. Different animals.

 

Thank you Solomon. I agree that people have different body types and muscular structures unless someone is physically handicapped we all have six major pairs of joints and their adjoining ligaments and muscles.

 

I got to play golf with Mike Dunaway through my association with Mike Austin. It was in Rodgers AR in the middle of winter, cart paths only. He was using a graphite shaft with a titanium head and was flying his driver 370-390 yards on wet fairways. He wasn't busting a gut the way Bryson does. I would estimate he was using 60-70% less physical effort than Bryson. Dunaway looked smooth and effortless because he moved more efficiently. 

 

Economy of Motion refers to the efficiency at which somebody moves from one point to another. In golf the idea is to deliver deliver energy to the golf ball without a lot of wasted effort. 

 

From a video Dunaway did titled "The World's Best Driver". 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Zitlow

[glk]

26 minutes ago, yoose said:

I’d also be interested to know how long he works with some of them. Is it a long term thing or do they just go in for the initial analysis. 

Dr kwon is not an instructor.  He asks  people to bring their instructor with them and otherwise they are on their own.   If anything his main focus in instruction, aside from his twu students, is giving certification courses to golf teaching professionals.  Anyone can sign up - due to COVID he has been doing zoom - next session is in Korean in January for level 1&2.

Edited December 27, 2021 by glk

[Soloman1]

Zitlow:

Yes, Mike Austin had a wonderfully balanced motion.

 

There's still a lot of violence going on at impact for all long hitters.

 

No disrespect to the late Mike Dunaway, but he was a long hitter in the mid eighties. He played in two tour events and averaged 287 yards. That's strong for that time. But, he only hit 13 fairways out of 42 and only broke 80 one round. Golf and long drive golf are different.

 

You may also not know that Bryson has very little radial flexion in his wrist. He has had to adapt his swing to that limitation. I'm sure you'll agree that not everyone is blessed with all of the wonderful and working physical motors that Austin and Dunaway had.

[Zitlow]

@Soloman1 do you have a link to Dunaway's tournament performances? When I played with him in January 2000 he hit every fairway but one when his back foot slipped on a muddy tee box. He hit the ball extremely high and straight. He was a terrible chipper and putter. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2021 by Zitlow

[rondo01]

55 minutes ago, glk said:

Dr kwon is not an instructor.  He asks  people to bring their instructor with them and otherwise they are on their own.   If anything his main focus in instruction, aside from his twu students, is giving certification courses to golf teaching professionals.  Anyone can sign up - due to COVID he has been doing zoom - next session is in Korean in January for level 1&2.

Quoted for truth. Kwon is in a bit of a liminal space, but he isn’t a golf instructor. Quit positioning him as one and you start to grasp what’s going on here. 

[yoose]

On 12/24/2021 at 11:23 AM, Stiff said:

Home Depot sells 3/4" double braided rope just like it.  They burned off both ends for me.  I'm 6'3" so I had them cut it to 7' 1/2 feet--perfect.. 

the Home Depot I went to didn’t have double braided in 3/4” so I got twisted. Doesn’t seem like it would make a big difference, the double braided feels more comfortable to hold though. 

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, ALIF said:

I’d rather have Bryson’s swing honestly.

 

 

 

Oh well. Just kidding, whatever makes you happy is fine with me. 

[Soloman1]

@Zitlow Sure, here it is:

 

https://www.pgatour.com/players/player.10445.mike-dunaway.html

[RichieHunt]

2 hours ago, Soloman1 said:

Austin is hitting a persimmon wood and steel shaft (different MOI, shaft response and AoA) on a different plane with a different body type and different muscular structure. Different animals.

 

And if they were using the same equipment Bryson would still be swinging faster than Austin.  

 

A lot of Bryson's lower body motion thru the ball and into the finish is to help prevent lower back injury.   It doesn't look pretty, but it has proven to be effective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Hilts1969]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Dr. Kwon's work brings to mind a few questions rattling around in my cranium:

Are the pro swing mechanics identified by Kwon and others using hi tech analysis actually better for those of us who are less gifted?

Do Dr. Kwon's students who are average golfers to start with end up with swings that are biomechanically better and similar to the pro swings that Dr. Kwon has studied?

Do those students actually improve and lower their handicap indexes or do they just look better?

 

 

 

 

If you naturally have a club face issue Dr Kwon can certainly help you hit it quicker and off the planet.

 

Shift turn shift turn collect ball from car park.

 

Kerching 

[Zitlow]

@RichieHunt Austin was flying the ball over 300 yards with a hickory shafted driver at East Lake country club when he was 15. When he was in his prime he was clocked at 150MPH. 

 

Maybe Bryson can swing a club at 150MPH but there's more to hitting a golf ball extremely long than raw club head speed. You also need to apply mass to the ball as well, The mass of Austin's right side followed the club head into the ball. He wasn't dragging the club head through the ball with his left arm or left side like most people do. 

 

 

If you learn how to use your joints according to their design you won't have back issues. I hope Bryson stays healthy but he may have back issues down the road according to some orthopedic surgeons and some of his peers on tour. How many back surgeries has Tiger had? 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2021 by Zitlow

[miamistomp]

 Yes, Dunaway and Austin could knock the stuffing out of a ball

  However, they won nothing on tour and have an  interesting niche in the golf world similar to a Count Yogi

  

 Bryson is an accomplished tournament golfer, he is not teaching or selling a technique-he is out playing and winning

[airjammer]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

Thank you Solomon. I agree that people have different body types and muscular structures unless someone is physically handicapped we all have six major pairs of joints and their adjoining ligaments and muscles.

 

I got to play golf with Mike Dunaway through my association with Mike Austin. It was in Rodgers AR in the middle of winter, cart paths only. He was using a graphite shaft with a titanium head and was flying his driver 370-390 yards on wet fairways. He wasn't busting a gut the way Bryson does. I would estimate he was using 60-70% less physical effort than Bryson. Dunaway looked smooth and effortless because he moved more efficiently. 

 

Economy of Motion refers to the efficiency at which somebody moves from one point to another. In golf the idea is to deliver deliver energy to the golf ball without a lot of wasted effort. 

 

From a video Dunaway did titled "The World's Best Driver". 

 

 

 

Dunaway was obviously a freak of nature and Mike Austin was too. I’m not a Austin historian like you are so there are probably things that I’m not aware of. Apparently Dunaway had high swing speed before ever meeting Mile Austin so I don’t understand the fascination🤷🏼‍♂️ Yes, Mike Dunaway was probably the best driver of the golf ball ever but he wasn’t some hack swinging 90mph that was made into a long drive champion. From outsider it would be the same thing we would say about Kyle Berkshire if sought out Jaime Sadlowski to coach at the beginning of his long drive journey career. A freak being taught by another freak. 

[Zitlow]

Austin and Dunaway had long drive macho mentalities. Austin didn't have the temperament for tournament golf and the prize money wasn't great way back when. Dunaway didn't have any touch, he was terrible around the greens. To me putting is the easiest part of the game. 

 

Neither one of them could hit the hole from 4 feet. I asked Dunaway if he ever practiced his putting, he said not really. Both of them were not only extremely long but they hit the ball extremely straight as well but they had no confidence on the greens. 

 

This is a video Steve Pratt posted of Austin hitting drivers when he was 77 years old. He's at the range in Studio City CA.  Love Austin or hate him there is no disputing that he could hit the ball with a lot of power using what looks like little effort. He used to call it economy of motion, a lot for a little. 

 

 

[airjammer]

12 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

Austin and Dunaway had long drive macho mentalities. Austin didn't have the temperament for tournament golf and the prize money wasn't great way back when. Dunaway didn't have any touch, he was terrible around the greens. To me putting is the easiest part of the game. 

 

Neither one of them could hit the hole from 4 feet. I asked Dunaway if he ever practiced his putting, he said not really. Both of them were not only extremely long but they hit the ball extremely straight as well but they had no confidence on the greens. 

 

This is a video Steve Pratt posted of Austin hitting drivers when he was 77 years old. He's at the range in Studio City CA.  Love Austin or hate him there is no disputing that he could hit the ball with a lot of power using what looks like little effort. He used to call it economy of motion, a lot for a little. 

 

 

Some people are just smooth no matter how much effort they are putting in. I’d put him in the same category as https://instagram.com/d_cooper86?utm_medium=copy_link

 

There is no doubt that they both are putting in a lot of effort but still smooth. I always said I believe that today’s light equipment and ball robed us of greatness. As Kwon has already stated heavier objects require better mechanics. So a much heavier club would need better mechanics to get the club moving to start the swing and much better braking mechanics at the top of the swing to start the transition. There’s obviously a reason we are still studying Ben Hogan and Sam snead swings all there years later and still can’t replicate their results. 

[MPStrat]

5 hours ago, Nels55 said:

Dr. Kwon's work brings to mind a few questions rattling around in my cranium:

Are the pro swing mechanics identified by Kwon and others using hi tech analysis actually better for those of us who are less gifted?

 

 

 

 

Essentially if one were to say that his method is not good for those that are less gifted, they would have to believe there exists a swing method or motion that would result in  striking the ball solidly and hitting it long enough to score well that requires limited athleticism. That doesn’t exist; although I’ve seen the idea promoted on the Internet and I believe there are a large number of  golfers searching for it. I believe that the best method for most is one where success requires more athleticism and less micromanagement, not less athleticism and more micromanagement. I know that wasn’t your suggestion, just stating my belief. 

Edited December 28, 2021 by MPStrat

[rondo01]

More today…

 

 

[Nels55]

18 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

Essentially if one were to say that his method is not good for those that are less gifted, they would have to believe there exists a swing method or motion that would result in  striking the ball solidly and hitting it long enough to score well that requires limited athleticism. That doesn’t exist; although I’ve seen the idea promoted on the Internet and I believe there are a large number of  golfers searching for it. I believe that the answer to hitting it better is to make the swing more athletic and less micromanaged, not less athletic and more micromanaged. I know that wasn’t your suggestion, just stating my belief. 

Hard to prove one way or the other.  There are a lot of method teachers out there who say that their way is better and easier then the pro swing.  Usually they say that the pro swing requires world class timing to accomplish and normal people can't do it.  I have been suckered in on a number of them and I can say that not one improved my game.  LOL that number is rather large.  I have also spent a few thousand dollars on more traditional lessons with basically no change to my game.  LOL I guess that I am one of those searchers!  I am working on the more athletic swing based on what I am learning from the Kwon videos with a bit of AMG+ sprinkled in there.  If I can get to less micromanaged that would be cool.  Not sure I am smart enough to accomplish anything but time will tell as usual.  

[Soloman1]

“So, let’s go to Peter Kostis out on the course.”

 

”Austin has hit an incredible drive. He only has 140 yards left to this par 5. It looks like he’s taking a 9-iron…

 

He’s hit it high and straight at the pin. He just hit it 210 yards and flew the green into the woods. What a shot!”

 

🙂

[MPStrat]

54 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Hard to prove one way or the other.  There are a lot of method teachers out there who say that their way is better and easier then the pro swing.  Usually they say that the pro swing requires world class timing to accomplish and normal people can't do it.  I have been suckered in on a number of them and I can say that not one improved my game.  LOL that number is rather large.  I have also spent a few thousand dollars on more traditional lessons with basically no change to my game.  LOL I guess that I am one of those searchers!  I am working on the more athletic swing based on what I am learning from the Kwon videos with a bit of AMG+ sprinkled in there.  If I can get to less micromanaged that would be cool.  Not sure I am smart enough to accomplish anything but time will tell as usual.  

I will say that what Kwon is teaching is a conglomeration of the most helpful things I have learned in the last decade and I like the way he frames the golf swing conceptually. I will also say that if I was exposed to this material five years ago, I don’t know if I would fully understand the how and why enough to incorporate it into my swing. Without exception learning/making changes to the golf swing on the internet is a near impossible task.