Bigger Guys Golf Swing - Differences I have Learned

[Hstead]

I thought I would start a thread on some of the things I have learned on my path to improve and make my swing more efficient over the years.  I have been to quite a few really good instructors over the past decade or longer and I have taken away something from all of them, but I feel like I finally have a pattern that fits my build and a lot of other bigger guys could maybe shorten their learning curve by understanding the differences bigger guys face and not make some of the mistakes I made in the past.

 

I chased many positions in the past due to my misunderstanding of what fit me, namely trying to get the shaft super shallow and laid down.  I also tried to get a ton of extension past impact, I tried to get the butt of the club as far from my belt buckle as I could.  Those two goals led to continued consistency issues, mostly controlling low point.  I would get the club way too under plane because I would right tilt too early and that caused low point control issues, blocks, and hooks.  I also lost speed because I would hold off the release thinking I wanted all of this arm extension past impact.

 

I have been working with Chase Cooper, lv_2_hack on here, for a couple of years and I feel like I have finally changed my swing and understand what works for me to play better.  Chase has built in two "bumpers" he calls them, which are my guides to keeping my shaft from getting too under plane and to keep me from right tilting too early.  I have studied a bunch of bigger buys that have played on Tour over several decades and I l learned they keep the shaft for the most part above the plane until P6.  

 

The two guides for me, are keeping my eye-line tilt from going to far up and right, and feeling like I keep my left arm in at P5.  I have to get my eyes down and left, and keep the left shoulder moving down and left.  It is incredible how much your eyes and nose influence the direction of your shoulders.  The other guide is making sure at P5 I have the left arm in a little and not let it get too outside.  Elkington calls it "pinching the Tity" as he has been working with Chase on the exact same move.

 

When I started working with Chase I was 8 to 9 degrees right with my path and my AoA was 2 degrees down if that.  Now I can hit 8 down if I want and can move the path from 5 left to 5 right pretty easy by feeling the left arm in or letting it get out a little.  Chase taught me too, the path numbers do not mean much without AoA.  You can have a path 7 degrees right, and if you have the AoA down enough, the swing direction result is fairly neutral.  I have learned a lot about controlling my swing direction with the AoA instead of trying to just change the path.

 

I just made my fourth trip to Houston I think.  The facilities are awesome and talking to Hal Sutton about how to play has been a huge help too.  He and Chase have probably improved my scores as much with mental stuff than just the swing stuff.

 

Just wanted to share because I kind of get tired of seeing some of the threads on here that I think cause more harm than good.  They did for me anyway.  I am done chasing this super shallow flat look forever.  It is so much easier to keep the club parallel to the plane but above it until P6.  The AMG guys I know harp on it too.  If you are a bigger dude, quit chasing the skinny man look with super open hips al la DJ and the super laid down shaft like Sergio.  It can wreck our swings.

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Hstead

[Kuuuch]

Awesome write up. I was just looking at a post from the AMG guys here https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZxN1SADgn_/?utm_medium=copy_link where they show Tiger and his super shallow move 😉. I think it was easy for a lot of us to get sucked into the shallow fad and it definitely screwed me up too. 

[Hstead]

I know GG and the AMG guys kinda had a little war it seemed at times a couple of years ago.  The AMG guys are quite often mocking the "super shallowing" move.  They post a lot of good content.

 

When I get under plane I am toast.  Chase said nearly every bigger guy he sees he has the same fix because they right tilt to shallow the club.

 

 

[Kuuuch]

Looking good! I’m 6 3 225 and yeah anymore shallow than below and I’m toast. Tilts get out of wack and I can get a 2 way miss.

 

[d_s]

Any vid's showing these types of things would help.  I'll try and look up what the "P" positions mean.  I am overweight plus a little stocky with short arms,  so I can use all the tips I can get. 

[MonteScheinblum]

I’m older and fatter than you, so if I can do it, so can you…but my hair is better.

[OnTheBag]

1 hour ago, Kuuuch said:

Looking good! I’m 6 3 225 and yeah anymore shallow than below and I’m toast. Tilts get out of wack and I can get a 2 way miss.

 

As another big guy (6'4+ and 240+) I've fought these same things most of my life.  Had a friend and teaching pro tell me once to quit trying to find the perfect swing and pay more attention to my low point control with the swing God gave me.  That changed everything.  Most of the swing positions don't work for guys with 36" arms and hips that don't turn so easily.

 

Now that I've gotten old, the transition was easier to my old man swing because my old swing was more natural and less forced.  At the end of the day, the keys all boil down to low point control, club face at impact and a bit of swing path.  

 

Glad you found what worked for you.

Edited February 11, 2022 by OnTheBag

[ThinkingPlus]

Following...

[indianagolf2]

I'm 5 foot 8 300...craig Stadler 

[Schnee]

Great stuff Heath. I've experienced many of the same issues in my swing as you. As a chronic right tilter, my AoA is a longstanding battle. 

 

It's so important for everyone to swing based on their own body type and their physical capabilities. We're never going to be super open with the DJ look, but we better get some degree open, especially with the shoulders. 

 

I chased the pitch right elbow for a long time, and the only way I can do it is by right tilting too early and too much. I'll probably always play from some degree of punch elbow. 

 

Since controlling my low point better, I'm a much more consistent player. Sure, I mishit shots, but I don't hit as many that are horrid. 

Love this thread idea. 

[me05501]

Makes sense to me.

 

I was at a corporate conference years ago and there was a presentation by the guy who wrote "The L.A.W.'s of Golf." His whole philosophy was based around sorting students into groups based on their build and flexibility and teaching each group a different way to find the most efficient move for them. Same concept I guess. 

 

I've had a bunch of lessons over the years to the point where I pretty much know what the pro is going to want to change about my swing. These days instead of calling for another lesson I'm more likely to review my old notes and re-commit to the drills I know from experience that I need. 

 

Most of us recreational players eventually have to learn to self-service our swings. I'm not talking about guys who are aiming to win their club's low gross comps...just regular schlubs like me who are better off spending our limited practice time on the putting green. 

[games]

@Hstead  Saw your latest move on @lv_2_hack IG.  So much of your current move resembles Duval in his prime.  I think it's that down and left eyeline...

 

Working with Chase and @Schnee and getting to play a full round with @Schnee was the best "big man" swing training I've had.

 

 

@MonteScheinblum latest swing video looks great too.  (I don't know who Monte thinks he's sandbagging with his "I'm just a fat old man" line.  That's as fast a swing and as loud an impact as any 25 year-old tour player...)

[scooterhd2]

Anybody having more success with an open stance? I'm 6'1 275. For me, setting up open sort of presets the hip turn at impact and gets things out of the way. Likewise in transition, it is harder to goat hump or get the right knee going forward. The weight is set left and since that foot is behind you a bit, it make more of 'Monte's zipper away' feeling more natural to me. And then the right knee moves more down the target line than out, which gets the right hip and right spare tire meat out of the way. Alot more room to keep the arms behind while working in to out. Really been hitting irons better than ever with this setup. 

[OnTheBag]

4 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

Anybody having more success with an open stance? I'm 6'1 275. For me, setting up open sort of presets the hip turn at impact and gets things out of the way. Likewise in transition, it is harder to goat hump or get the right knee going forward. The weight is set left and since that foot is behind you a bit, it make more of 'Monte's zipper away' feeling more natural to me. And then the right knee moves more down the target line than out, which gets the right hip and right spare tire meat out of the way. Alot more room to keep the arms behind while working in to out. Really been hitting irons better than ever with this setup. 

In the last 3 years, I have moved my front foot back a few inches to aid in the hip turn and weight transfer.  Had hip replacement surgery in 2017 and that was the only way I could keep undue pressure off it in the transition.  Ended up being easier to get my hands through the zone and get my shoulders turned on the follow thru. 

 

Right? Wrong?  I don't care.  It works and doesn't hurt as much.  

[capking]

I personally fall into the monster category and even going to golftec it was all about correcting/making positions. The numbers for hip or shoulders didn’t matter mainly since something happened in March 2020. But the main thing to eliminate early extension and proper shaft lean for me was starting on small swings and working up to the real ones. That helped immensely as well as switching to jumbomax XL grips since my hands are also very large.

[PoeKingShankspeare]

I’ve seen ugly swings from some players, but they make it work.. single digits. One guy, at impact his hips are square, yet shoots in the 70’s… literally, if you pause his swing, it’s like he’s addressing the ball . But these guys make it work..

 

Because of them, and it’s hard to get into GG, AMG, R. Wilson, etc..I stopped chasing positions middle of last year, and the results are getting better and better every day. More so when I started following Dr. Kwon’s step drills. I’ve gained distances throughout the bag and my accuracy has improved. Missed one fairway last round and the round before that I hit almost 50% of the greens. He’s method to me is K.I.S.S

 

 My driver‘s swing speed is now between 100 and 103. Prior to that, I was at 93-95 mph, sometimes 97 mph. Likewise, my 7i swing speed was in the mid-high 70’s to 85-87mph now.. I’m not even trying to swing out of my shoes…. smooth tempo, controlled yet free flowing swing AND…… easy on my upper back! Mind you, I started Dr. Kwon’s method after the new year.

 

Lastly, it’s all mental. Tell yourself you will do it and do it well.  I am 5 foot 6” and over 250 pounds and I am close to 50.. if I can do it so can you..

 

(If only I can trust my reads on the greens, maybe I’ll break 10  this season lol. I don’t follow what I say when it comes to putting)

Edited February 12, 2022 by PoeKingShankspeare

[Hstead]

This thread is turning into a good one, thanks fellas for sharing. 

 

I was able to hit some balls yesterday and play some.  Here are the Goals - low point control, be able to hit down 4* or more, be able to change swing path from 5 left, 0, to 5 right.

 

I have two different feels.  What Chase calls, "Lasers", and "Left Arm In".  Lasers means keeping my eyes down and left like I had laser beams coming from my eyeballs and tracing a line on the ground down and around to the left then up.  It also helps to think about my nose moving in those directions.  The Left Arm In is trying to squeeze my left arm against my chest so I do not get the hands way out and over the top left.

 

The way we changed the swing from too much right tilt, was to learn how to hit little over the top pull cuts.  I would take 8 iron or 9 iron and hit 110 to 120 yard little pulls cuts.  You cannot pull cut it if you are under plane right tilting.  Once I could get the pull cut established consistently and hit the ground in the same place all of the time, then we added in draws with the arms.  That is the left arm in feeling. So hit little low slices for better players right tilting, and then add the draw arms.  If you're a higher handicap that comes over the top already, maybe just jump straight to the draw feel with the arms.

 

One other issue I get into is getting too deep.  If I get too deep, I cannot get my chest open at impact in time like Chris S said.  I have to have my shoulders a little open at impact to control the low point.  I am trying to slowly get deeper and also get the chest open so I can add more speed.

 

 

 

 

[sethdavidsdad]

2 hours ago, Hstead said:

This thread is turning into a good one, thanks fellas for sharing. 

 

I was able to hit some balls yesterday and play some.  Here are the Goals - low point control, be able to hit down 4* or more, be able to change swing path from 5 left, 0, to 5 right.

 

I have two different feels.  What Chase calls, "Lasers", and "Left Arm In".  Lasers means keeping my eyes down and left like I had laser beams coming from my eyeballs and tracing a line on the ground down and around to the left then up.  It also helps to think about my nose moving in those directions.  The Left Arm In is trying to squeeze my left arm against my chest so I do not get the hands way out and over the top left.

 

The way we changed the swing from too much right tilt, was to learn how to hit little over the top pull cuts.  I would take 8 iron or 9 iron and hit 110 to 120 yard little pulls cuts.  You cannot pull cut it if you are under plane right tilting.  Once I could get the pull cut established consistently and hit the ground in the same place all of the time, then we added in draws with the arms.  That is the left arm in feeling. So hit little low slices for better players right tilting, and then add the draw arms.  If you're a higher handicap that comes over the top already, maybe just jump straight to the draw feel with the arms.

 

One other issue I get into is getting too deep.  If I get too deep, I cannot get my chest open at impact in time like Chris S said.  I have to have my shoulders a little open at impact to control the low point.  I am trying to slowly get deeper and also get the chest open so I can add more speed.

 

 

 

 

I was watching your swing with Chase and Monte's both have a similar movement that I can't get. From P2 to P3 getting the club to stand up vertically. I seem to always get it too laid off at this point. Any feels or drills that you worked on for this?

This has always been the missing thing for me to get the club shallowing instead of steep in the transistion. 

Edited February 12, 2022 by sethdavidsdad

[games]

11 minutes ago, sethdavidsdad said:

I was watching your swing with Chase and Monte's both have a similar movement that I can't get. From P2 to P3 getting the club to stand up vertically. I seem to always get it too laid off at this point. Any feels or drills that you worked on for this?

This has always been the missing thing for me to get the club shallowing instead of steep in the transistion. 

 

Good call!  I'll let them answer, and this is something I need to work on, too.  But, I think they tend to keep the clubface a bit closed P2 to P3.   At least more closed than me.  I tend to fan mine open early, so it tends to look more sucked in and flat on the way back.

[sethdavidsdad]

This is where I’m talking about. To me it looks like both have trail elbo going slightly internal. Is this intentional? 
Any feels that would help me get here?

[Hstead]

32 minutes ago, sethdavidsdad said:

This is where I’m talking about. To me it looks like both have trail elbo going slightly internal. Is this intentional? 
Any feels that would help me get here?

I rolled the club inside for years.  iteachgolf finally fixed that move for me by having me keep my right arm straighter for longer in the beginning of my swing.  He also had me feel like the butt of the club was pointing at my heels.  He would put a tee in the butt of the grip and have me point it at my heels.  I would make practice swings with that tee and focus on pointing it at my heels until P3.  You can also feel like your forearms turn counterclockwise toward the target in the beginning.

 

My son and I just worked on this today.  He has a tendency to roll his forearms away from the target and gets the club inside.  I just had him doing the Justin Thomas, or Ricky move, where they take it back to P2 and make sure the clubhead is outside the hands.  

 

Luckily I do not have to think about the backswing anymore since I put so much time into mine for years trying to fix my inside roll.  My main backswing issue now is monitoring if I get too far across the line at the top.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Hstead

[sethdavidsdad]

1 hour ago, Hstead said:

I rolled the club inside for years.  iteachgolf finally fixed that move for me by having me keep my right arm straighter for longer in the beginning of my swing.  He also had me feel like the butt of the club was pointing at my heels.  He would put a tee in the butt of the grip and have me point it at my heels.  I would make practice swings with that tee and focus on pointing it at my heels until P3.  You can also feel like your forearms turn counterclockwise toward the target in the beginning.

 

My son and I just worked on this today.  He has a tendency to roll his forearms away from the target and gets the club inside.  I just had him doing the Justin Thomas, or Ricky move, where they take it back to P2 and make sure the clubhead is outside the hands.  

 

Luckily I do not have to think about the backswing anymore since I put so much time into mine for years trying to fix my inside roll.  My main backswing issue now is monitoring if I get too far across the line at the top.

Thanks Heath, this roll to inside has plagued me for years. I’m good at P2 but loose it up to P3. 

Your swing is looking really good. 

[Hstead]

6 minutes ago, sethdavidsdad said:

Thanks Heath, this roll to inside has plagued me for years. I’m good at P2 but loose it up to P3. 

Your swing is looking really good. 

You will get the feel when the club seems incredibly light.  Just mess around with standing the club up perfectly vertical and it will feel so light.  Incorporate that super light feel in the backswing and you will have it.

[MonteScheinblum]

For me I get excess external, so this is to combat that.

[LaterOn61]

I have followed Heath for years. I’m 6’0” and 230. Been struggling with the shaft being vertical in the backswing similar to Heath and Monte. However, from the top I early extend and tip the shaft even steeper. Results are a big pull or sticking the club into the ground. I’ve always been above the plane line.

 

I wonder how Heath and Monte shallow or how they don’t stick the club in the ground and fat everything?

[lv_2_hack]

13 minutes ago, LaterOn61 said:

I have followed Heath for years. I’m 6’0” and 230. Been struggling with the shaft being vertical in the backswing similar to Heath and Monte. However, from the top I early extend and tip the shaft even steeper. Results are a big pull or sticking the club into the ground. I’ve always been above the plane line.

 

I wonder how Heath and Monte shallow or how they don’t stick the club in the ground and fat everything?

I’d say 80% of the people I’ve worked with who get more vertical/across in the backswing shallow it better in the downswing. 
 

The other 20% are the opposite. They steepen hard first move down.

 

Have to figure out what works for you. If you steepen harder in transition, have to look at your tilts and trail elbow. Can’t go too internal. 

[LaterOn61]

You look at Furyk and he transitions exceptionally well from a vertical backswing. I’ve never been able to find that shallow.

[capking]

Do other large guys that are good still get to the positions you are describing? Harry Higgs is a good example or Lurch from foreplay golf on barstool. Big guys

[lv_2_hack]

Great thread so far guys. 
 

5 years ago I’d of said I hated when a ‘Big Boned’ student would come in the academy looking for some swing help. I just wasn’t sure the best way to fix them. I always felt like they had fewer options, which is still true, but I didn’t know what those options were. 
 

I had a break through with one of my college players. He was never known to be a great ball striker and also cane back from Christmas break complaining of back pain. He wanted to make some changes and was open to just about anything. 
 

We identified the excessive right tilt issues and started grinding on ways to stay in left tilt longer. The results were crazy good. His back pain went away. He went from being unranked in D3 to top 10 in less than a year. He was a cronic right path right tilter, so we had to continue to focus on tilting left and making sure he could fade it when needed. 
 

From there I’ve kinda simplified the ‘fat boy swing’ to a few of these keys…

 

1. It begins and ends with low point control. Nothing else really matters if you can’t hit the ground where you want. 
 

2. The body fades it, the arms draw it. Meaning, you can’t right tilt to draw it and you can’t throw your arms over the top to fade it. Have to keep arms deep enough not to slice and stay in left tilt long enough to be able to fade it. That tends to be Heath and Schnee’s balancing acts. 
 

3. Can’t have a lot of lateral motion off the ball. Have to stay fairly centered. Also don’t need a ton of width in backswing. Tends to pull upper center to far off ball when chasing width. Playing from a narrow armed P4 could help a lot of you stay in your tilts and stay centered. 
 

4. Can’t get the arms super deep in backswing. Just not enough room to make it work. 
 

5. Can’t play from a super closed clubface at the top (or too flexed left wrist). The closed face also delofts the face and most of you can’t manage that. You’ll tend to right tilt too much to try to get the ball airborne. 
 

There are obviously outliers to the above ideas but these are some general rules to watch for. 
 

Think that’s it for now. Hope this helps!

 

[lv_2_hack]

14 minutes ago, LaterOn61 said:

You look at Furyk and he transitions exceptionally well from a vertical backswing. I’ve never been able to find that shallow.

Most better players transition fine from vertical positions. Most of GG’s guys do.  Some don’t.