distance debate

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Hitting 3w when trouble is on the left and right, laying back to a perfect yardage, coming into a hole from the proper side of the fairway, taking spin off to bounce the ball into a tight pin.....etc.....

Giving yourself the best scoring opportunity. IMO

Are these not tactics?

[ThinkingPlus]

14 minutes ago, Htk084 said:

I want to see modern equipment I just want to see more spin.  Is that too much to ask?

 

The low spin stuff made the game get carried away in my opinion

Come up with a non-balata cover material that will generate more spin and become a multimillionaire.

[MattyO1984]

15 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Are these not tactics?

 

Definition of Tactic - "an action or strategy planned to achieve a specific end". 

 

Tactic or Strategy either way, seems like they are pretty much interchangeable although, having tried to read this thread such a blasé attitude is surely going to come in from criticism 🤣

[farmer]

15 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Modern equipment took me to a plus handicap briefly last year.  I play about three times a month and hit a small bucket every couple weeks.  So yeah that big driver and Pro V made the game a lot easier. 

Modern equipment made it possible for you to control your wedges impeccably, read greens like a laser and putt like a young Ben Crenshaw?  All without playing or working at the game to any great extent?  Specifically, what equipment do you use?  (Asking for a friend.)

[So_Cal]

59 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

But the stars of yesteryear that you guys keep going on about, Hogan, Sneed, Jack, etc were the Rory's of their day, and were just as proportionally longer than the rest of the pack as Rory is today. So yes, it was bomb and gouge in the sense that they had 2-3 clubs less than all of their competitors in on the approach. The only thing you seem to be hung up on is the number/letter stamped on the bottom of the club. 

Nothing wrong with being longer. 

[So_Cal]

23 minutes ago, farmer said:

Modern equipment made it possible for you to control your wedges impeccably, read greens like a laser and putt like a young Ben Crenshaw?  All without playing or working at the game to any great extent?  Specifically, what equipment do you use?  (Asking for a friend.)

TS3 driver 

2013 exotics 3 wood

steelhead 5 wood

mizuno 19 mix irons

old vokeys

Rossie 2

V1x

Edited July 12, 2022 by So_Cal
Spelling

[gvogel]

4 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

Hitting 3w when trouble is on the left and right, laying back to a perfect yardage, coming into a hole from the proper side of the fairway, taking spin off to bounce the ball into a tight pin.....etc.....

Giving yourself the best scoring opportunity. IMO

So the course layout is important, as it relates to where the trouble is, and playing to the proper side of the fairway.  Don't you think that these conditions exist on many of the courses laid out, or designed, by people who had extensive knowledge of the game, and course strategy?  People like Donald Ross, George Thomas, Seth Raynor and even Pete Dye?

 

Be careful, you're starting to sound like a roll backer.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

4 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

Definition of Tactic - "an action or strategy planned to achieve a specific end". 

 

Tactic or Strategy either way, seems like they are pretty much interchangeable although, having tried to read this thread such a blasé attitude is surely going to come in from criticism 🤣

Simplistcally, strategy is the policy, tactics are the actions to achieve the policy objectives.

[Pastit]

15 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Nothing wrong with being longer. 

True, I love ‘em - used to beat 90% of those who were longer but few were longer and straighter !

[Pastit]

10 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Simplistcally, strategy is the policy, tactics are the actions to achieve the policy objectives.

I suppose the strategy might be to win a match play game by concentrating on hitting fairways and greens and the tactics the techniques used on each hole according to how one’s opponent played. 

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

47 minutes ago, Pastit said:

True, I love ‘em - used to beat 90% of those who were longer but few were longer and straighter !

"Long Hitters? The woods are full of them !" Jimmy Demaret,

Spoken when trees were serious hazards, not the emasculated, trimmed aboretums of todays cookie cutterTour venues.

Makes the 'players' look good though and sells more product.

[Pastit]

24 minutes ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

"Long Hitters? The woods are full of them !" Jimmy Demaret,

Spoken when trees were serious hazards, not the emasculated, trimmed aboretums of todays cookie cutterTour venues.

Makes the 'players' look good though and sells more product.

You hit the nail on the head there. That’s one of the main differences between PGA Tour courses and traditional UK parkland courses. Bushes should be bushes, solid and spikey. 

[Titleist99]

9 hours ago, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

"Long Hitters? The woods are full of them !" Jimmy Demaret,

Spoken when trees were serious hazards, not the emasculated, trimmed aboretums of todays cookie cutterTour venues.

Makes the 'players' look good though and sells more product.

Exactly.....

[Titleist99]

We're playing now, the same game as they played in 1860

He who gets around with the lowest score wins.......

 

                                                                    ~The Golf Channel

 

Hmmmm......Sound eerily familiar.

[gvogel]

45 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

We're playing now, the same game as they played in 1860

He who gets around with the lowest score wins.......

 

                                                                    ~The Golf Channel

 

Hmmmm......Sound eerily familiar.

Is that you, Rich Lerner?

[So_Cal]

10 minutes ago, gvogel said:

Is that you, Rich Lerner?

He’s Wally Uihlein, remember?

[TiScape]

On 7/12/2022 at 8:41 AM, Htk084 said:

I want to see modern equipment I just want to see more spin.  Is that too much to ask?

 

The low spin stuff made the game get carried away in my opinion

👋🏼 I just wanted to quote you and say hello to you in the first thread I’ve ever seen you post in that doesn’t have liv or moderated in the title! 😂 

[Htk084]

1 minute ago, TiScape said:

👋🏼 I just wanted to quote you and say hello to you in the first thread I’ve ever seen you post in that doesn’t have liv or moderated in the title! 😂 

hi partner! 👋 

[So_Cal]

Technology sadly making a mockery of the Old Course’s strategy.   428 yard drive.  Principal’s nose bunker no longer an issue.  Guys just fly it over.  Soft 3 woods into 357 yard 18 not to go long!  8 under already in round 1!!

[farmer]

2 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Technology sadly making a mockery of the Old Course’s strategy.   428 yard drive.  Principal’s nose bunker no longer an issue.  Guys just fly it over.  Soft 3 woods into 357 yard 18 not to go long!  8 under already in round 1!!

You have to have some context.  It's bone dry, super tight turf and some downwind holes.

[Simpsonia]

4 hours ago, So_Cal said:

Technology sadly making a mockery of the Old Course’s strategy.   428 yard drive.  Principal’s nose bunker no longer an issue.  Guys just fly it over.  Soft 3 woods into 357 yard 18 not to go long!  8 under already in round 1!!

 

This is disingenuous. That distance is rollout on the baked fairways, you're making it out like people are carrying it 400 yards. 

 

Also, isn't the carry on the Principal's Nose only 228 yards? Jack and co would carry over that 40 years ago. 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Simpsonia

[So_Cal]

Also extremely slow rounds as 3, some more par 4’s are drivable.  

[Titleist99]

39 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

This is disingenuous. That distance is rollout on the baked fairways, you're making it out like people are carrying it 400 yards. 

 

Also, isn't the carry on the Principal's Nose only 228 yards? Jack and co would carry over that 40 years ago. 

Yep, but your facts don't fit his narrative.......LOL!

They're rolling it on concrete and getting 100 yards of roll.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Titleist99

[buckeyefl]

3 hours ago, farmer said:

You have to have some context.  It's bone dry, super tight turf and some downwind holes.

 

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

 

This is disingenuous. That distance is rollout on the baked fairways, you're making it out like people are carrying it 400 yards. 

 

Also, isn't the carry on the Principal's Nose only 228 yards? Jack and co would carry over that 40 years ago. 

 

Lack of context and disingenuous are his specialties, much like the USGA. Oh and then there's the lack of facts and creating drama where there is none.

 

 

Posting a 9-under 63 in the first round of the 139th Open Championship, Northern Ireland's Rory McIlroy set a new record for lowest opening-round score. The record had been the 64 shot by Craig Stadler (1983), Christy O'Connor Jr.

 

 

 

 

also this

 

Greg Norman – 1993, 66-68-69-64=267, Royal St George’s
Tom Watson – 1977, 68-70-65-65=268, Turnberry
Nick Price – 1994, 69-66-67-66=268, Turnberry
Tiger Woods – 2000, 67-66-67-69=269, St Andrews
Nick Faldo – 1990, 67-65-67-71=270, St Andrews
Tom Watson – 1980, 68-70-64-69=271, Muirfield
Tom Lehman – 1996, 67-67-64-73=271, Royal Lytham & St Annes
Ian Baker-Finch – 1991, 71-71-64-66=272, Royal Birkdale
Nick Faldo – 1992, 66-64-69-73=272, Muirfield
Justin Leonard – 1997, 69-66-72-65=272, Royal Troon

 

and this

 

 

62 - Branden Grace, 3rd round, Royal Birkdale, 2017

63 - Mark Hayes, 2nd round, Turnberry, 1977

63 - Isao Aoki, 3rd round, Muirfield, 1980

63 - Greg Norman, 2nd round, Turnberry, 1986

63 - Paul Broadhurst, 3rd round, St Andrews, 1990

63 - Jodie Mudd, 4th round, Royal Birkdale, 1991

63 - Nick Faldo, 2nd round, Royal St George's, 1993

63 - Payne Stewart, 4th round, Royal St George's, 1993

63 - Rory McIlroy, 1st round, St Andrews, 2010

63 - Phil Mickelson, 1st round, Royal Troon, 2016

63 - Henrik Stenson, 4th round, Royal Troon, 2016

63 - Haotong Li, 4th round, Royal Birkdale, 2017

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by buckeyefl

[smashdn]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:06 PM, The Aspidistra in the Hall said:

Simplistcally, strategy is the policy, tactics are the actions to achieve the policy objectives.

I agree with this.

 

Zack Johnson Masters strategy was to play to every par five in three shots and try for birdie.  Tactics was how he did that on each hole.

[freddi22cl]

tech turning The Old Course into a muni .....cmon

 

its defenseless . Need mother nature 

[So_Cal]

3 minutes ago, freddi22cl said:

tech turning The Old Course into a muni .....cmon

 

its defenseless . Need mother nature 

Guys driving 18 with 4 irons and rounds take 6 hours because of all the drivable par 4’s.  Hey if you don’t want a rollback at the top level I get it but I think it’s necessary.  The equipment is simply too good. 

[MUNIGRIT]

As long as the ball was round I am guessing they hit some monster long drives in the old days too on baked out fairways.

[munichop]

The r and a never have been as obsessed with protecting par as the other majors. They felt that was up to the weather. That being said they put 12 of 18 pins in the most challenging spots according to Paul Mcginley and a lot of guys shot sub 70 rounds. In fact the r and a attitude is what allowed engineers to outwit the governing bodies in the 90’s when the biggest distance gains happened. 
Now TOC is going the way of Prestwick.

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

6 hours ago, munichop said:

The r and a never have been as obsessed with protecting par as the other majors. They felt that was up to the weather. That being said they put 12 of 18 pins in the most challenging spots according to Paul Mcginley and a lot of guys shot sub 70 rounds. In fact the r and a attitude is what allowed engineers to outwit the governing bodies in the 90’s when the biggest distance gains happened. 
Now TOC is going the way of Prestwick.

Well said ! And a very expensive green fee for a muni, lol.

They might, if they really wanted to, find a composite course for the Open by using the Old, New and Jubilee but i don't see the point.

It's a St Andrews money grab with local landlords kicking students out of 'lets' to coin £1000 a night for accommodation for Open 'fans'.