Why Am I hitting blades better than GI'ers?

[colu41]

So I recently bought a set of TM Stealths. Had them out about 4 rounds this year and I simply can't for the life of me hit them straight. Getting wild slices, and even if I strengthen up everything, I might get a baby fade out of them, but nothing close to consistent. My strikes were ok, but also were a little more inconsistent than I was use to.

This winter I traded a buddy of mine, my Mizuno MP59s for a set of Nike Forged Blades. Pretty much just for fun. I planned to maybe restore the Nikes and sell them down the road. But instead, I took them out for a round of golf.

I havent hit an iron this good all year. I shot my second lowest score of all time (81), and was pure hitting shots the entire round. Had a few low cut thinned stingers in there on some mishits buts thats golf. Hitting them straight, and consistently. 

Fearing it was a fluke. Went back the next day with a mix of BOTH irons. Hit the Stealths like garbage, hit the Nikes great.

Went out for another round today, shot 82. My 4 rounds with my Stealths I was shooting 92-95. 

I just feel more comfortable over the ball with the blades. And the heaviness from the Stealths after golfing with the Nikes just turns me off. 

 

Another buddy of mine already offered to buy the Stealths off of me, but I'm worried. Should I go get fitted for some blades? I never felt nearly "good" enough to hit blades, but if I'm hitting them good, I guess thats all there is to say? If i keep up with these scores, I might even have a chance to break 80 this year!!

 

 

[nsxguy]

Congrats. 👍

[FewerThan14]

Were you fitted for the Stealths? I wonder if shaft is making a big difference. 

 

For what it's worth, I have good iron days often when I play shovels. I have great iron days sometimes when I play my Nike blades. Proximity to the hole is always closer with the blades, but getting on the green is point and shoot with the shovels from any lie. 

[chisag]

... I am always a little confused at those wrx members that compare MBs to GI's. While some can play both I think it is the rare individual that can play GI's equal to MB's and of course the opposite. When I taught full time I always found the vast majority of my students either needed all the help they could get or just a little extra help. There are just sooooooo many great Players options between MB's and Stealth irons. Taylor Made alone has P790's, P770's and P7MC's that can give you the same accuracy of MB's with a little forgiveness. Great line up because the P7MC's are basically MB's with a little forgiveness. The P790's are ultra forgiving and long for those that need it and the P770's right in the middle. Something for everyone from a + index to an 18. 

... If you are shooting in the low 80's a good Players iron would be a better choice than Nike MB's or Stealth's. I have a set of Srixon Z Forged MB's I enjoy a few times a year to remind me of what it was like back in my persimmon wood and MB days as well as conformation why I play Cobra MIM's that give me just enough forgiveness on my off days but laser accurate when I am swinging well. 

[nsxguy]

3 hours ago, FewerThan14 said:

Were you fitted for the Stealths? I wonder if shaft is making a big difference.

 

Wondered about that as well. OP swings an X-flex driver shaft and 85 gram iron shafts. Seems an unusual combo.

 

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by nsxguy

[llewol007]

I’m the same way. I love blades 

[OnTheBag]

46 minutes ago, chisag said:

... I am always a little confused at those wrx members that compare MBs to GI's. While some can play both I think it is the rare individual that can play GI's equal to MB's and of course the opposite. When I taught full time I always found the vast majority of my students either needed all the help they could get or just a little extra help. There are just sooooooo many great Players options between MB's and Stealth irons. Taylor Made alone has P790's, P770's and P7MC's that can give you the same accuracy of MB's with a little forgiveness. Great line up because the P7MC's are basically MB's with a little forgiveness. The P790's are ultra forgiving and long for those that need it and the P770's right in the middle. Something for everyone from a + index to an 18. 

... If you are shooting in the low 80's a good Players iron would be a better choice than Nike MB's or Stealth's. I have a set of Srixon Z Forged MB's I enjoy a few times a year to remind me of what it was like back in my persimmon wood and MB days as well as conformation why I play Cobra MIM's that give me just enough forgiveness on my off days but laser accurate when I am swinging well. 

Great stuff here.  There is so much room between the two irons you mention.  Golfers like @chisagand I played when there were few options except blades.  When PING released the Eye 2 it was an awakening to what could be.  Can I still strike blades, yes I can.  But a good players cavity back or similar is easier on my off days (when arthritis or other ailments strike.)  I do use Ben Hogan Icons, but only in 7i-PW.  I'm leaning on hybrids above that.  

 

I'm not current on all the new models, but something like an i200/i210 or MP 18/MP 20 MMC come to mind as a great middle ground option.

[tatertot]

No stock GI head has ever caused a slice. As mentioned earlier, the shaft installed in the head certainly could.

[Socrates]

I have the opportunity to hit TM clubs all the time.  I have not hit an iron since the M series and the Stealth came out that didn't feel like garbage.  The Stealth are exceptionally terrible.  IMO.  Anything would be better than them except the Ping G700's.  Those were the worst clubs I've hit in 20 years.

[colu41]

2 hours ago, FewerThan14 said:

Were you fitted for the Stealths? I wonder if shaft is making a big difference. 

 

For what it's worth, I have good iron days often when I play shovels. I have great iron days sometimes when I play my Nike blades. Proximity to the hole is always closer with the blades, but getting on the green is point and shoot with the shovels from any lie. 

I was not fitted for the Stealths. And I never said the Stealths we're causing my slice. I just almost felt like my swing changed drastically while hitting them. Probably a mental thing, sure. But just something about them. The weight, the shafts etc. I don't know.

 

All I know is while hitting these Nike Blades, I immediately shaved off 10+ shots from my score.

 

And thanks for the club suggestions. Ive always loved the looks of the TM P-Series irons. And my dream clubs which I've never imagined ever really getting are a nice set of Mizuno blades but, there's plenty more to choose from.

 

I'm going to continue hitting these Nikes for the rest of the year. If I continue on scoring like I am, regardless, I will probably go get fitted. 

 

And to be clear, I haven't been fitted for any of my current clubs. My driver was second hand. Got it for a great price last year so shaft wasn't really a concern as long as it was stiff. I actually hit it very well.

 

[T_Golf_23]

It all depends on your miss. I play wilson staff blades and have consistently played great golf. Big reason is the I have a left hooking miss. Blades and super stable shafts reduce this to a slight pull, but most shots are dead straight … or even a slight fade. 
 

Plus when I catch one thin with blades, they go like 50 yards straight. Pretty harmless. 
 

my misses are so much more manageable for my game with blades. Obviously no fliers either. I think I went something like 55 holes without losing a ball. 
 

it’s all about the club and shaft mix that gives you more manageable misses, not the one that gives you more perfect shots, IMHO. 
 

this means different things to different players though… we all have a different miss that hurts our game. 
 

 

[2bGood]

The theory is certain clubs fits certain golfers better regardless of the intended 'market' for them. I was recently doing a fitting with a very honest fitter. By the numbers I would not get anything more out some of the newer tech clubs than my standard CB's from 8 years ago (with the exception of the 4 iron).  We had a nice chat and he mentioned he fit high handicap or older golfers into CB's and even blades sometime as it suited there swing better. 

[colu41]

Just now, T_Golf_23 said:

It all depends on your miss. I play wilson staff blades and have consistently played great golf. Big reason is the I have a left hooking miss. Blades and super stable shafts reduce this to a slight pull, but most shots are dead straight … or even a slight fade. 
 

Plus when I catch one thin with blades, they go like 50 yards straight. Pretty harmless. 
 

my misses are so much more manageable for my game with blades. Obviously no fliers either. I think I went something like 55 holes without losing a ball. 
 

it’s all about the club and shaft mix that gives you more manageable misses, not the one that gives you more perfect shots, IMHO. 
 

this means different things to different players though… we all have a different miss that hurts our game. 
 

 

I'm going on 40+ holes with the same ball. Pretty incredible for me honestly. And I get the same thing with these Nikes. My misses are so much more manageable. 

 

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, colu41 said:

And to be clear, I haven't been fitted for any of my current clubs. My driver was second hand. Got it for a great price last year so shaft wasn't really a concern as long as it was stiff. I actually hit it very well.

 

 

But your signature says "X-flex".

 

Point being, if you can handle an "X", the 85 gram shafts on your Stealth are likely ill fit for you.

 

So, I see you updated your signature. What shafts are on the Nikes ? It's totally possible they're a good bit heavier and that may be why the Nikes work better. Might have nothing to do with the heads.

 

Anywho, hopefully at some point you'll get fit. Fitting works.

[colu41]

4 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

But your signature says "X-flex".

 

Point being, if you can handle an "X", the 85 gram shafts on your Stealth are likely ill fit for you.

 

So, I see you updated your signature. What shafts are on the Nikes ? It's totally possible they're a good bit heavier and that may be why the Nikes work better. Might have nothing to do with the heads.

 

Anywho, hopefully at some point you'll get fit. Fitting works.

All the shaft label says is 6.0. They're the Nike Rifle Precision. And yes, I do plan to get fit in the near future.

[Cwebb]

It sounds like your odds are slim of hitting anything better than those.  I'd just keep playing them

[Valtiel]

These sorts of questions/realizations virtually always come down to specs. If the shafts in the Nike Forged Blades are the stock 6.0 Precisions, then those are significantly heavier than the KBS Max shafts in the Stealths. Odds are you simply swing a heavier club better/more consistently, as many do. The feeling of your swing changing drastically is probably real, because a club that is too light can be extremely difficult to swing consistently for many. 

[Gohigh]

I realized I cant game GI irons due to their offset, and the way it messes with my ball position, which seems to alter my shoulder alignment, which makes me swing bit too out to in, which makes me swing bit steeper than I want, which leads to inconsistent contact and distance. 

 

So then I tried to reduce the offset by few MM by weakening the lofts a bit, which helped a bit, but then I felt like the turf interaction felt a bit too dull due to added bounce, often missing a groove or two low, which negated the higher loft and messed with my spin numbers.

 

To me, the GI category have come a long ways with looks more streamlined, feel substantially improved, but to my eyes, it still makes me sweep the ball too much... Visually, I just cant seem to trust delivering any kind of downward strike without fear of chunking one. 

 

And the way it cuts through the turf is another factor... Everyone strives towards a certain feel, and to me, regardless of results, I feel like narrower sole of blades/players irons helps me to strike it cleaner with proper divots. 

 

I find that just because a club is marketed as a more forgiving option over others, how it performs in your hands and ultimately in your scorecard is the only thing that matters... 

[T_Golf_23]

2 hours ago, colu41 said:

I'm going on 40+ holes with the same ball. Pretty incredible for me honestly. And I get the same thing with these Nikes. My misses are so much more manageable. 

 

Don’t get fitted. Just playthe Nike’s. 
 

if you want - pick up some sets on here to try out. Every Monday when my home track is closed I take a fun set down to play around. Some are vintage, some are sets I bought to try shafts or heads. See if there is anything that can contend with my gamers. I don’t play a full 18….. just a handful of holes. Keeps things fun and fresh. 
 

I have  also found better fits doing this than in any formal fitting. 

[Chunkitgood]

4 hours ago, tatertot said:

No stock GI head has ever caused a slice. As mentioned earlier, the shaft installed in the head certainly could.

Not sure about this.  A lot of MOI is a lot of MOI, and a club that looks wrong looks wrong and will interfere with the mental processes.

 

Don’t listen to people who tell you need “more forgiving” clubs.

 

Do listen to people who tell you you need to learn to strike the ball properly.

 

The people who make it unnecessarily hard to do the latter tend to be the same who advise the former.

 

Go figure.

[Valtiel]

17 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

Not sure about this.  A lot of MOI is a lot of MOI, and a club that looks wrong looks wrong and will interfere with the mental processes.

 

Don’t listen to people who tell you need “more forgiving” clubs.

The funny thing is, they aren't even particularly high in terms of MOI. The Stealth irons are the highest MOI they've made in an SGI for awhile, and they are still slightly lower than something like the 718 AP2s or the T100S. 

Agreed about the mental component though, but i'd bet the farm on this largely being a weight issue. 

[straightshot7]

The thing is, you're not talking about Blades vs GI's...

You're talking about 1 set of blade irons vs. 1 set of GI irons...

 

It would help to know what shafts each has...

 

And the findings may be very different after you test dozens of sets.

[tatertot]

7 hours ago, Chunkitgood said:

Not sure about this.  A lot of MOI is a lot of MOI, and a club that looks wrong looks wrong and will interfere with the mental processes.

 

Don’t listen to people who tell you need “more forgiving” clubs.

 

Do listen to people who tell you you need to learn to strike the ball properly.

 

The people who make it unnecessarily hard to do the latter tend to be the same who advise the former.

 

Go figure.

True on the mental thing. If we swing wrong because it looks wrong, anything can happen.

[Golfah]

I am the same way.

I try GI irons, cavity backs, whatever for a little while buying into the hype of "forgiveness" but  I always come back to blades and invariably play way better with them.

 

Just now I went from Cobra mb's which I improved my ball striking with gradually every year for about 5 years, bought into the hype of ZX7s (hey if Brooks plays them...), hit OK for awhile, at first back and forth with mbs, then regressed.  Went to a Taylor-Made P7-mb and it's been a quantum leap forward.  I won't even sniff a cavity back anymore.  I have no idea what people are talking about "forgiveness".  I can hit my wife's super-cavity shovels bad if I put a bad pass on it. 

 

My theory: GI irons are ALL marketing.  ALL of it.  Including what the players on tour use.  The manufacturers need to sell new clubs EVERY YEAR.  The only way they do that is to claim improvements.   I think the "MOI" yes, it can be measured analytically on a machine, but I think it matters not in a golf swing.  


I will just add that at one time, I gave my beginner friend advice on golfing - I told him: shop the shaft not the head, and when you find a shaft, put a blade on it.  He did it, but got rid of the set after a year or two.  Then just yesterday e was saying - you know, I should have never sold that set.  As a beginner I was not good, but it was because I was a beginner, I was actually improving with those clubs.  I thought I should have been better than I was so I changed clubs to a cavity back and never went anywhere after that.  So antectodal story there...

 

Edited May 30, 2022 by Golfah

[Dinosaur]

Yah, me too.  I even sold a fairly new set of Hogan Exi's and opted for a set of Titleist 710 MB that were ten years old as I have previously stated. I hit the MB's no worse than GI's I have had in the past, and for whatever reason, the old MB's just seem to suit be better. Reasons stated above are note worthy. Considerations as to Weight, Shaft Flex certainly have much to do with it. In any event, I consider conventional wisdom an oxymoron.  Of course, I came from the McGregor (sp)? era which may have something to do with it. YMMV

[colu41]

So I just read somewhere the Nike Rifle Precision 6.0 shafts are rated at 130 grams? Not sure if that's all or just the 5 or 7 iron? But that's a drastic difference in weight from the Stealths at 85?

[SmashGolfBall]

Could be the shafts, or other specs (length, lie angles, swing weights) that make a big difference

[Chunkitgood]

13 hours ago, Valtiel said:

The funny thing is, they aren't even particularly high in terms of MOI. The Stealth irons are the highest MOI they've made in an SGI for awhile, and they are still slightly lower than something like the 718 AP2s or the T100S. 

Agreed about the mental component though, but i'd bet the farm on this largely being a weight issue. 

A statement was made about no GI heads not causing a slice, but who knows?

 

I sometimes think that since modern GI clubs are marketed as mechanical devices that will somehow produce better output than input, people who use them might tend to use them in a more mechanical (less free and fluid) way.

 

Searching for an analogy, with a firearm, people think “point and shoot” while with a bow and arrow they might understand more intuitively the need to shoot on a trajectory.  If people think the club will produce a certain flight shape or a launch angle, they might overlook the necessity of doing the actual work to produce what they want, which really does not vary that much with club type.

[Nard_S]

2 hours ago, colu41 said:

So I just read somewhere the Nike Rifle Precision 6.0 shafts are rated at 130 grams? Not sure if that's all or just the 5 or 7 iron? But that's a drastic difference in weight from the Stealths at 85?

That's uncut, once trimmed they are more like 110-120 grams. They are descending weight, flex wise similar to S300 , launch higher sail flatter.

 

Your issues are entirely specification related. Gross weight, flex & SW. MB's work better for some and that's all it is. 

 

 

 

[EddieEdwards]

I play blades and struggle with GI irons.  The only time I play GI's is rentals with lightweight shafts.  I suspect it's the shafts.