Complaints about slow play...

[golfer07840]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

 

Wouldn't you like to get $5 or $10 off your cart fee by moving faster?  Of course all the other golfers on the course would have to be of the same mind.

 On most courses where I play, the cart fee is built in. Only county courses charge and they want a ridiculous rate, 28$ per person. 

 

So to your point, would I want a few dollars off? Sure. But I also don't want to feel as though I'm on a timer just so I pay 23$ as opposed to $28. 

 

But to each their own. 

[SNIPERBBB]

5 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I can envisage people carrying firearms on the course as that would mean not only losing time for a bunch of slow idiots but also money...

Attack cougars would be entertaining.

 

I think most people, outside the random jerks, will give people a pass if they are making a good effort to keep pace. An occasional ball search is OK but every hole gets exhausting.  

 

Course layout helps too ... Luckily at my course, and most courses around here, you can two to three holes ahead to see where problems are with pace. Some of these housing development courses or mountain courses really can cause friction. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

18 hours ago, sui generis said:

I've long wondered if carts should be charged by the hour. Say, $5 an hour might do the trick. Some sort of geofencing thing which looks at leaving the first tee to leaving the 18th green should be easy enough.

 

Only issue with this is that it legitimizes slow play. "It's only an extra $5 to turn this 3:45 round into 4:50, and it's my money, so I'll do what I want."

 

I look at it like the proposed Netflix password sharing fee. Without a sharing fee, anyone who shares a password with another household would technically be in violation of Netflix's TOS. I.e. stealing. It's true that Netflix makes no revenue from a shared password, but everyone that shares a password knows, whether they choose to acknowledge it, that they're doing something "wrong". I, for one, don't do any password sharing (either give mine to others or take advantage of others offering theirs to me) because I consider it unethical. 

 

With a sharing fee, someone can look at it and say, "oh, Netflix is cool with me sharing my password with my parents as long as I give them an extra $3.99/mo." It legitimizes the behavior. I consider password sharing that violates TOS to be unethical, but if Netflix rolls out this fee locally, I'd be willing to consider sharing passwords with close friends or relatives because, obviously, making it a fee means Netflix is totally cool with it, right? 

 

I could see the same thing with a golf cart. If you have a flat fee and slow play is discouraged, then someone who is a slow player is doing something "wrong". If you charge $5/hour, then it's up to the individual golfer how long they want their round to be and how much they're willing to pay for it. It turns slow play from "you're a jerk for playing slow" to "you can play at whatever pace you are willing to pay for."

 

Other ways you could do it that might not have this problem:

 

• If a cart is $20/round, assess a $5 "penalty" (and be sure to call it that) for any player that doesn't complete in 4 hours. 
• If the desired goal is $20/round cart fee, charge $25/round and offer a $5 "rebate/reward" for getting in under 4 hours as a thank you for playing fast. 

 

But what you don't want to do is legitimize slow play by turning it expressly into a financial transaction without continuing to highlight that pace of play is important to everyone on the course and that a golfer not keeping up with pace of play is in the "wrong" from a golf etiquette standpoint. 

[SNIPERBBB]

Here's a thought for carts...GPS enabled carts that shut off at 4:15 from the time you pass the back tee box of #1

[MtlJeff]

95% of courses or more, have a recommended round time (usually 4:15~) , if you are playing within that and mostly keeping pace with the group ahead of you, you are doing fine. 4:15 can actually feel pretty slow depending on what you are used to, but it's the guidance and that is fine

 

private clubs there tends to be far fewer pace of play issues

 

If you play a public course on a saturday things can get pretty bad. I wouldn't say the complaints are overblown if you're a public course golfer. 5+ hrs happens all the time

[Mr. Bean]

41 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

95% of courses or more, have a recommended round time (usually 4:15~) , if you are playing within that and mostly keeping pace with the group ahead of you, you are doing fine.

 

No, no and NO!!!

 

Declaring a recommended/standard/maximum time gives people the illusion that when they are not exceeding that time they do not have to worry what happens behind them. So NO to all "recommended times" !!!

[Warrior42111]

56 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Here's a thought for carts...GPS enabled carts that shut off at 4:15 from the time you pass the back tee box of #1

Course I played a lot had them for quite sometime.

 

It was a cool program it will show your pace in color white (good) yellow (getting close to being over max) and red (over max). Also the clubhouse and rangers had computers so they can see where/ who the problem is.

 

Unfortunately they got rid of them. Asking around I guess the company they leased them from jacked up the prices to something ridiculous that they couldn't justify it.

[MtlJeff]

16 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

No, no and NO!!!

 

Declaring a recommended/standard/maximum time gives people the illusion that when they are not exceeding that time they do not have to worry what happens behind them. So NO to all "recommended times" !!!

 

I'm happy with anyone who wants to play faster, my group typically plays in 3hrs...I just look at it as these are businesses telling customers the expectation....almost like a restaurant saying "your seating is 2hrs"

 

At the end of the day i hope anyone isn't playing slower on purpose

[Robert72]

Playing slow is akin to driving less than the speed limit in the left lane.

 

It is incredibly discourteous to a large group of people.   I wish rangers were more aggressive.

 

[chisag]

5 hours ago, Rocky Ball-boa said:

So frustrating to watch the 3 practice swings, 8 waggles, 2 alignment checks, 30 seconds of whatever the heck just staring at a stationary ball is meant to accomplish result in a shank 50 yds into the woods.

Or kneeling on the green, 30 seconds of making the ball's logo align with wherever they think the putting line is, only to see them blow their third putt 7' past the hole.

 

 

... And therein lies the rub for many of us. It isn't so much that you play slow, it is how you play slow. If a group is on a 4:15 pace and just leisurely playing from tee to green, you can adjust to their pace. But as the saying goes, there is nothing wrong with playing poorly as long as you don't play poorly s-l-o-w. Watching someone go through the above and then take several practice swings after the poor shot is extremely frustrating when walking and standing in one spot for 10 minutes.

... Another is behind the "betting group" of good players where they play normal speed or even quickly from tee to green then seem to be stuck in molasses on the greens. Never ready or reading putts til it is their turn and then marking every putt and going through it again. So when there are holes open in front of those guys, we can never catch them as they tee off and get to the green quickly. Best you can do is try and pace yourself which means slowing down before teeing off, walking slowly so you are waiting an equal amount for every shot because at a normal pace you will always be sitting in the fairway for 10-20 minutes waiting forever for them to get off the green. 

[Follow The Sun]

I'm retired. I only play during the week Monday-Thursday. I refuse to play weekend golf. Gave up on it a long time ago.

 

Good Golfing

[RickK]

At my home course, rounds average 4 hours or slightly less.  When I play, if I see my group is all falling a hole behind, it is time to bring that to the attention of my group and tell them we have to speed up.  It doesn't take much to catch up.  I can't help what is going on ahead of the group ahead of me so no need to worry about it.  Our job is to keep pace with the group in front of us.  If a group behind us sees that we are a hole behind I think they have the right to complain to us.

[golfer07840]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Only issue with this is that it legitimizes slow play. "It's only an extra $5 to turn this 3:45 round into 4:50, and it's my money, so I'll do what I want."

 

I look at it like the proposed Netflix password sharing fee. Without a sharing fee, anyone who shares a password with another household would technically be in violation of Netflix's TOS. I.e. stealing. It's true that Netflix makes no revenue from a shared password, but everyone that shares a password knows, whether they choose to acknowledge it, that they're doing something "wrong". I, for one, don't do any password sharing (either give mine to others or take advantage of others offering theirs to me) because I consider it unethical. 

 

With a sharing fee, someone can look at it and say, "oh, Netflix is cool with me sharing my password with my parents as long as I give them an extra $3.99/mo." It legitimizes the behavior. I consider password sharing that violates TOS to be unethical, but if Netflix rolls out this fee locally, I'd be willing to consider sharing passwords with close friends or relatives because, obviously, making it a fee means Netflix is totally cool with it, right? 

 

I could see the same thing with a golf cart. If you have a flat fee and slow play is discouraged, then someone who is a slow player is doing something "wrong". If you charge $5/hour, then it's up to the individual golfer how long they want their round to be and how much they're willing to pay for it. It turns slow play from "you're a jerk for playing slow" to "you can play at whatever pace you are willing to pay for."

 

Other ways you could do it that might not have this problem:

 

• If a cart is $20/round, assess a $5 "penalty" (and be sure to call it that) for any player that doesn't complete in 4 hours. 
• If the desired goal is $20/round cart fee, charge $25/round and offer a $5 "rebate/reward" for getting in under 4 hours as a thank you for playing fast. 

 

But what you don't want to do is legitimize slow play by turning it expressly into a financial transaction without continuing to highlight that pace of play is important to everyone on the course and that a golfer not keeping up with pace of play is in the "wrong" from a golf etiquette standpoint. 

 

  

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by golfer07840

[golfer07840]

1 hour ago, Warrior42111 said:

Course I played a lot had them for quite sometime.

 

It was a cool program it will show your pace in color white (good) yellow (getting close to being over max) and red (over max). Also the clubhouse and rangers had computers so they can see where/ who the problem is.

 

Unfortunately they got rid of them. Asking around I guess the company they leased them from jacked up the prices to something ridiculous that they couldn't justify it.

 

My home courses had them too. They let the lease expire. So now it's back to rangers, which are very far and few. And all they do is change the garbage and drive around. 

 

In other words they are useless. 

[Fuscinator]

I play faster than most people. I found that trying to get slow players to play faster is pointless. There's certainly nothing I can do about it, and I've been a lot better off since I decided to just accept it as part of the game.

[Mr. Bean]

3 minutes ago, Fuscinator said:

I play faster than most people.

 

Just like 80% of car drivers are better than average. Sure.

 

What was you point? How is your faster than average play seen on the course?

[Fuscinator]

3 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Just like 80% of car drivers are better than average. Sure.

 

What was you point? How is your faster than average play seen on the course?

Say what now?

[CaptainPat]

I don't subscribe to the idea that I need to keep up with the group in front of as long as I'm maintaining the pace established by the course.   If a gap opens I'm happy to let a faster group behind me play through.

[rd1959]

20 hours ago, Follow The Sun said:

I'm retired. I only play during the week Monday-Thursday. I refuse to play weekend golf. Gave up on it a long time ago.

 

Good Golfing

I'm retired and play during the week also. I consider it as just another senior discount.

[bladehunter]

I’ll offer a counter view.  While I don’t think the OP is in left field.  The opposite is this. 
 

try being the group that was in front of you.   But playing two groups behind your group.  You’re costing them 2-3 shots a round as a group.  No doubt.   It’s a real skill to learn to play slower.  I mean for the better player. You have to learn to just check out between shots.  Go to your phone. To the birds in the lake somewhere. Because if you stand there and think about the 5 putt you’re watching in front of you , there’s a better than 80. % chance you’re going to hit a hurried and bad shot next.
 

So who’s correct ?  Probably somewhere in the middle.   Faster players need to learn to cope.  And other players need to learn to keep up with the group in front.  Even if it means picking up.  Maybe not keeping up as in on their tail. But no more than a half to max 1 hole behind. 2 holes behind isn’t ok.  4 hours for a good player on his home course is an eternity.  Just giving the flip side view. 

[golfer07840]

On 7/8/2022 at 10:33 AM, bladehunter said:

I’ll offer a counter view.  While I don’t think the OP is in left field.  The opposite is this. 
 

try being the group that was in front of you.   But playing two groups behind your group.  You’re costing them 2-3 shots a round as a group.  No doubt.   It’s a real skill to learn to play slower.  I mean for the better player. You have to learn to just check out between shots.  Go to your phone. To the birds in the lake somewhere. Because if you stand there and think about the 5 putt you’re watching in front of you , there’s a better than 80. % chance you’re going to hit a hurried and bad shot next.
 

So who’s correct ?  Probably somewhere in the middle.   Faster players need to learn to cope.  And other players need to learn to keep up with the group in front.  Even if it means picking up.  Maybe not keeping up as in on their tail. But no more than a half to max 1 hole behind. 2 holes behind isn’t ok.  4 hours for a good player on his home course is an eternity.  Just giving the flip side view. 

We can always count on you being the sensible one. Seriously. 👍

[Mr. Bean]

On 7/6/2022 at 9:24 PM, nsxguy said:

Look for 1 or 2 balls on a hole and you're a full shot and a half a hole behind. And if the group ahead is playing well (and your group isn't), make that a full hole behind.

 

Your group can try to make it up, but if you've already been following Mr Bean's "best practices" example, you're already moving pretty much as fast as you can - so how can you pick up time ???

 

 

If you truly are a fast group (following he principles of fast play) you do not have to do anything more, you will catch up the preceding group during the next two holes.

[Soloman1]

Having lived in Japan for decades and brought books to read during six-hour rounds, with a one-hour lunch break between nines, I can live with an extra 15 minutes or so once in a while. But, that’s just me.

 

I can only laugh at people who rush to get finished, hop in their cars and floor it from stoplight to stoplight, weaving in and out of lanes just to get home to sit on the sofa and eat potato chips.

 

I wonder if their love life is the same way?

 

”Damn it, honey! I don’t have 15 minutes to spare! Let’s get this over with so I can back get online and write comments on GolfWRX.”

 

😉

[bcjim]

The few times I really feel the need to play through some group, I will usually just go around them (and skip the hole). Just put your likely score down if you're posting the round and move on. I only do this if there is a large gap to the next group or the slow players are utterly clueless.

[Mr. Bean]

13 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

I can only laugh at people who rush to get finished, hop in their cars and floor it from stoplight to stoplight, weaving in and out of lanes just to get home to sit on the sofa and eat potato chips.

 

 

Is it possible that they would rather spend their time with their family of friends instead of watching hackers in front? I mean, 4 hours is reasonable but 5 hours means you just lost one hour from your other activities. Sure, if you do not have any other activities then I can understand that hanging about on a golf course is just fine.

 

We all have our own priorities and nobody (except my wife...) can tell whether the priorities are right or wrong.

[Double Mocha Man]

24 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

I can only laugh at people who rush to get finished, hop in their cars and floor it from stoplight to stoplight, weaving in and out of lanes just to get home to sit on the sofa and eat potato chips.

 

When it gets hot and slow on the golf course my mind wanders to swimming in the lake nearby or having a cold Pacifico on the side patio and firing up the BBQ.

[Mr. Bean]

Just now, Double Mocha Man said:

 

When it gets hot and slow on the golf course my mind wanders to swimming in the lake nearby or having a cold Pacifico on the side patio and firing up the BBQ.

 

That brings to mind my former home course. On the way there are several ponds with very clear water and it was a real joy to jump in after a round of golf.

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

If you truly are a fast group (following he principles of fast play) you do not have to do anything more, you will catch up the preceding group during the next two holes.

 

I probably phrased my post poorly.

 

If everybody is following those same principles, they're already playing as "fast as they can".

 

And if both groups are playing at the same speed, that is, as quickly as the "principles" allow, how can the group behind make up time ? What can they do to make up the time ?

 

Seems to me that only if the group ahead slows up, perhaps for the same reason(s) the group behind fell behind, there's no viable way to catch up.

 

And while the time to play a hole isn't linear, if the group ahead is making pars and the group behind is making bogies, good luck on them catching up.

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

If everybody is following those same principles, they're already playing as "fast as they can".

 

 

That'll be the day...

[charli]

Just because you think your on pace doesn’t mean you shouldn’t let someone through. ThAts not how it works