"$50 Autoflex" Anyone try this?

[vernon]

I'm leaning Pro Launch Blue 45 in Senior here and getting antsy to pull the trigger.  

 

Been debating between that and the Apollo Featherlight and the Acer Velocity 45.

 

A few bucks more but I liked Grafalloy's back when I played them years ago.

 

All time favorite shaft was the Grafalloy Blue in X which is a couple hundred miles away from this deal!

[vandyfan]

9 minutes ago, DLeightonReid said:

Great information vandyfan....thanks for sharing.  Your average clubhead speed was slightly slower with the senior ProLaunch Blue shaft.  Did you consciously try to slow your tempo with the senior flex?  Also, did you find the ProLaunch Blue to feel good and stable?  That shaft seems to be choice of people on another forum conducting this experiment.

 

I was trying to step on my "standard" setup because I wanted to see what the top-end potential was there. So the ProLaunch swings were consciously slower (and more on-course realistic) but I will say it is less effort to get speed out of the senior shaft (as you might imagine). 

 

The ProLaunch feels a bit strange but that may be expected. It is only my second time really ever swinging it. I think it is the shaft weight more than the flex. I have stepped down from 70-ish grams in shaft weight to 45 grams. Plus I play KBS Tour 120g shafts in my irons so I am used to a bit of weight. All that said, results were....pretty decent. If I am honest, it needs more time but there is a high likelihood I try a 65 gram regular Pro Launch Blue shaft. I wish I could just "rent" a shaft without doing a fitting or even do a fitting but it seems like the fitters around me would not have such a cheap shaft rigged up to use for a Cobra Head. 

 

20 minutes ago, DLeightonReid said:

Most of the experimenters I have read about are recommending the ProLaunch Blue 45 senior flex.....like vandyfan above.

 

Yep, the shaft itself is about $50 but if you need an adapter and grip put on it (I don't know how to work on clubs at all) then it is closer to $90 shipped from Golf works. 

 

[vandyfan]

26 minutes ago, vernon said:

Acer Velocity 45.

 

I have the standard acer velocity as one of my testing shafts (68 ish grams) and it is pretty decent. It has a high amount of torque (6.0) which I think makes the shaft feel "lively" even though it is technically a "stiff" shaft. The one thing that has always confused me about the acer shafts is that the only difference between "stiff" and "regular" is the amount of tip trimming. So, to me, it is essentially the same shaft but one has a stiffer tip due to trimming (I understand that shortening a shaft makes it play stiffer just surprised they don't have separate models for stiff and regular) Most other shaft manufacturers I have seen always have a particular shaft in each category between Ladies/Senior/Regular/Stiff etc. 

Edited December 2, 2022 by vandyfan

[Bad9]

I don't know its overall profile but I tried an Xcaliber SL45 A flex in my 10.5 Rogue ST Max late this season and drove it further and straighter than I did all year. Even in the cool, heavy fall air and shaggy fairways i drove it further and better than I did all summer. Definitely going to be the set up to start next season.

[vandyfan]

3 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

Xcaliber SL45 A flex

 

So you bumped down one flex, was there a significant weight change as well or just a change in flex/profile?

[Bad9]

1 minute ago, vandyfan said:

 

So you bumped down one flex, was there a significant weight change as well or just a change in flex/profile?

I think there’s a 10-15 gram difference in the prior shaft and I played the SL45 half an inch longer at 45.5”. I didn’t make any other adjustments.

[Honeybadger]

On 11/18/2022 at 10:14 AM, Adam C said:

I think the bend profile is probably the least important part of the equation, though most of the shafts I have paired or heard others using were in the mid bend profile, full disclosure. Think it's really about the weight and flex drop. If you play a low launch and wanted to use the same idea, I think it still works with a low launch profile as long as the weight and flex criteria are met.

Adam, Two questions for you please:

 

1. I messed up a PX Evenflow Senior 40 gram pulling the adapter. It was salvageable by tipping it an inch. What do you think that will do? (I haven’t been able to hit it because my G425 is with Ping- they’re replacing it- they are the best)

 

2. Which brings me to my second question. I was thinking of asking Ping for the Distanza 40 gram Senior flex. What do you think of that shaft for this experiment? 
 

Thanks! 
 

[Adam C]

9 minutes ago, Honeybadger said:

Adam, Two questions for you please:

 

1. I messed up a PX Evenflow Senior 40 gram pulling the adapter. It was salvageable by tipping it an inch. What do you think that will do? (I haven’t been able to hit it because my G425 is with Ping- they’re replacing it- they are the best)

 

2. Which brings me to my second question. I was thinking of asking Ping for the Distanza 40 gram Senior flex. What do you think of that shaft for this experiment? 
 

Thanks! 
 

If you tip a driver shaft an inch, it makes it play approx 1/2 flex stiffer, so that should still work for this method just playing a bit stiffer.

I think that 40g shaft fits my rule of dropping 10g and 2 flexes assuming you compare against a traditional 55-60g stiff shaft. If you try it, let me know how it works out.

[vernon]

I couldn't resist any longer and ordered a 45 gram Pro Launch Blue in Senior flex.  Currently playing a Ping G425 Max 10.5 with a Tensei Pro Orange 60 in stiff.  It's the aftermarket Tensei and not the Ping version if that matters.

 

The old Grafalloy Blue in Tour X was my all time favorite shaft and I used to hit that thing a mile but then that was back when I was younger and stronger!

 

The 425 is the first driver I've ever owned with this much loft and it was a mistake.  I thought getting older the extra loft might be a good thing but I was wrong.  Even turned down to the big plus it's a little too high so that might be an issue with the experiment but we'll see.

 

Planning on getting a G430 Max whenever they're released and will be going back to a nine degree head.

 

Looking forward to testing out the Pro Launch Blue nonetheless!

 

It's stuff like this that keeps old guys getting out of bed every morning......

[WristySwing]

10 hours ago, vernon said:

I couldn't resist any longer and ordered a 45 gram Pro Launch Blue in Senior flex.  Currently playing a Ping G425 Max 10.5 with a Tensei Pro Orange 60 in stiff.  It's the aftermarket Tensei and not the Ping version if that matters.

 

The old Grafalloy Blue in Tour X was my all time favorite shaft and I used to hit that thing a mile but then that was back when I was younger and stronger!

 

The 425 is the first driver I've ever owned with this much loft and it was a mistake.  I thought getting older the extra loft might be a good thing but I was wrong.  Even turned down to the big plus it's a little too high so that might be an issue with the experiment but we'll see.

 

Planning on getting a G430 Max whenever they're released and will be going back to a nine degree head.

 

Looking forward to testing out the Pro Launch Blue nonetheless!

 

It's stuff like this that keeps old guys getting out of bed every morning......

 

Unless typo'd, the Big + setting is going to add an additional 1.5* of loft.  Try the Big - setting instead

[vernon]

29 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

Unless typo'd, the Big + setting is going to add an additional 1.5* of loft.  Try the Big - setting instead

Typo.

I get confused easily these days!

[95124hacker]

This thread ironically is costing me almost as much as an Autoflex.

 

Have bought:

Aldila Ascent 40 R driver

Aldila Ascent 60 R FW

PX EF RipTide CB 40 L driver

PX EF RipTide CB 40 A driver

Fuji Motore X F3 50 R driver

UST Mamiya Helium Black 4F2 (A) driver

Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue 45 A driver

 

Added: Fuji Air Speeder 40R driver (LOL)

Edited December 8, 2022 by 95124hacker

[hagimihale]

@95124hacker, which of the above-mentioned shafts have worked the best for you so far in your testing?

[62@Oakmont]

21 minutes ago, 95124hacker said:

This thread ironically is costing me almost as much as an Autoflex.

 

Have bought:

Aldila Ascent 40 R driver

Aldila Ascent 60 R FW

PX EF RipTide CB 40 L driver

PX EF RipTide CB 40 A driver

Fuji Motore X F3 50 R driver

UST Mamiya Helium Black 4F2 (A) driver

Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue 45 A driver

LOL!

 

So, any feedback on any of these yet?

[95124hacker]

Just now, hagimihale said:

@95124hacker, which of the above-mentioned shafts have worked the best for you so far in your testing?

Only played the Ascent 40R in an actual round, and the Motore X F3 & EF RipTide CB 40A at the range. The Ascent was giving me ~5% more distance without any loss of control with TP5x & Z-star Diamond balls. This was on a cold damp day as well.

[vandyfan]

Really this should turn into a swap program between Golfwrx'ers. If it wasn't for those damn adapters....

[SEP1006]

9 hours ago, 95124hacker said:

This thread ironically is costing me almost as much as an Autoflex.

 

Have bought:

Aldila Ascent 40 R driver

Aldila Ascent 60 R FW

PX EF RipTide CB 40 L driver

PX EF RipTide CB 40 A driver

Fuji Motore X F3 50 R driver

UST Mamiya Helium Black 4F2 (A) driver

Grafalloy ProLaunch Blue 45 A driver

 

 

It's just like anything else that works. While there are always things that come close to the original item/product. They just don't work identical to the same product.

[SE Gamer]

43 minutes ago, SEP1006 said:

 

 

It's just like anything else that works. While there are always things that come close to the original item/product. They just don't work identical to the same product.

 

True. But sometimes you find something that works as well or better than the OG.

[hagimihale]

9 hours ago, 95124hacker said:

Only played the Ascent 40R in an actual round, and the Motore X F3 & EF RipTide CB 40A at the range. 

 

I don't need any more driver shafts in my garage.  I think I have more than they do at the local Dick's store.  But here I am, surfing the 'bay for a Riptide CB...  *cough* I'maho *cough*

[SE Gamer]

Alright, so I knew of the autoflex. But hadn't looked into it due to the price tag. After stumbling across this discussion, the "uncommon value" side of me is intrigued. I've read through this and the other linked threads. Curiosity is definitely piqued. And if something similar can be had for around $50, why not try it for fun.

So, can someone maybe help me confirm what shafts I should be looking for? The post above actually lists all that I'd noted while making my way through the threads. So let's go with that list. And based on what I'm reading, I'd personally "rank" them as...

• Riptide 40A
• Ascent 40r
• Motore F3

Now, it seems certain driver heads may work better than others. So hoping mine falls in the "works" column. Which is a TM Sim Max 9*. Currently shafted with a Ventus Blue Stiff. If it doesn't then I'm probably done with this rabbit hole. As I don't want to buy another head just for "fun".

 

Assuming the Sim Max will work, my next question is in relation to playing length. Is it advised to go standard, or a little over standard? FWIW, my driver club speed is around 110 with a smooth tempo/transition.

Hoping someone in here will give me a dumbed-down, truncated education on the topic. Thanks!

[95124hacker]

46 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

Alright, so I knew of the autoflex. But hadn't looked into it due to the price tag. After stumbling across this discussion, the "uncommon value" side of me is intrigued. I've read through this and the other linked threads. Curiosity is definitely piqued. And if something similar can be had for around $50, why not try it for fun.

So, can someone maybe help me confirm what shafts I should be looking for? The post above actually lists all that I'd noted while making my way through the threads. So let's go with that list. And based on what I'm reading, I'd personally "rank" them as...

• Riptide 40A
• Ascent 40r
• Motore F3

Now, it seems certain driver heads may work better than others. So hoping mine falls in the "works" column. Which is a TM Sim Max 9*. Currently shafted with a Ventus Blue Stiff. If it doesn't then I'm probably done with this rabbit hole. As I don't want to buy another head just for "fun".

 

Assuming the Sim Max will work, my next question is in relation to playing length. Is it advised to go standard, or a little over standard? FWIW, my driver club speed is around 110 with a smooth tempo/transition.

Hoping someone in here will give me a dumbed-down, truncated education on the topic. Thanks!

If you read any of the actual Autoflex thread, guys are removing the weight plugs from the heads to keep a reasonable swing weight & putting a short strip of tape to cover any holes. Target head weight is 190g or something like that. Playing lengths are ranging from std 45” to 47”. There are too many variables to play with, once you’ve settled on a particular shaft. The head doesn’t seem to matter much. There isn’t one head that works better than another. This is what I gather from the hundreds of posts there.

Edited December 8, 2022 by 95124hacker

[Yacho]

29 minutes ago, SE Gamer said:

Alright, so I knew of the autoflex. But hadn't looked into it due to the price tag. After stumbling across this discussion, the "uncommon value" side of me is intrigued. I've read through this and the other linked threads. Curiosity is definitely piqued. And if something similar can be had for around $50, why not try it for fun.

So, can someone maybe help me confirm what shafts I should be looking for? The post above actually lists all that I'd noted while making my way through the threads. So let's go with that list. And based on what I'm reading, I'd personally "rank" them as...

• Riptide 40A
• Ascent 40r
• Motore F3

Now, it seems certain driver heads may work better than others. So hoping mine falls in the "works" column. Which is a TM Sim Max 9*. Currently shafted with a Ventus Blue Stiff. If it doesn't then I'm probably done with this rabbit hole. As I don't want to buy another head just for "fun".

 

Assuming the Sim Max will work, my next question is in relation to playing length. Is it advised to go standard, or a little over standard? FWIW, my driver club speed is around 110 with a smooth tempo/transition.

Hoping someone in here will give me a dumbed-down, truncated education on the topic. Thanks!

 

I was in the same boat last week...   My buddy and I just wanted to see what the hype was all about and do it on the cheap.  If you want to replicate the actual autoflex shaft as close as possible but not buy an autoflex, then this thread has your recipe.  If you want to replicate the concept that was put forth into the mainstream by the autoflex, then your formula is a lightweight, high quality, slightly longer-than-normal shaft that is about 2 flexes softer than what you usually swing.

 

I picked up a new made-for-Taylormade Fujikura Air Speeder 45 A-flex with grip and TM adapter off ebay for $55 shipped to my door.  I think it's a stock option for sim2's or stealths.  Anyway, plug and play.  It weighs in at 49 grams, and plays at 46" in my M1. 

 

My buddy has exactly your setup... original Sim Max with the Ventus blue in stiff, swings 110-112.  After warming up, we tried the Air Speeder in his driver first.  Took a chunk of swings to get used to the new required swing tempo and transition, but after he figured it out he was averaging 4-5mph faster club speed with the senior flex Air Speeder 45.  And, yes, we went back and forth between that and the Ventus a bunch, so there's no warm-up bias there.  Dispersion was questionable in the sample, but not exactly what we were testing for, so won't jump to any conclusions just yet.

 

My turn.  I got a baseline with my M1 and Aldila Rogue silver 110 stiff 70g of about 110mph.  Switched to the Air Speeder and saw about a 3mph jump.  Now, before heading to my buddy's garage sim that night, I cheated a bit and put the Speeder in my M1 and measured swingweight...  right around D8 if I remember right.  Then I took one of the sliding weights out of the head and it re-measured to D1 or around that.  So, naturally, that night on the LM, i popped out the weight and got some new numbers....  about 8mph club speed jump, and when i really went for it, more like 12.  What I recognized with this ultra lightweight setup was how much more I could get my wrists to flip the club through impact vs relying mostly on the arms carrying through.  I was striking the ball poorly that night anyway, but it did seem that smash factor took a bit of a hit with the weight out. 

 

Back to my buddy and his Sim Max.  He's only got the one weight in the back to take out, so we tried it. It's pretty burly (20? 25 grams), so while his clubspeed went way up, smash factor went way down, and ultimately saw no distance gain there.  So there's a happy medium to be found, for sure.

 

I do suggest the Fujikara Air Speeder 45 though, FWIW, just to try the concept and see if you can keep it on the planet.  It can be had cheap, fully built with adapter and grip, and certainly gets you in the wheelhouse.  

 

 

[Yacho]

40 minutes ago, 95124hacker said:

Target head weight is 190g or something like that

 

The headweight of my M1 after taking out the rear sliding weight was 188g.  Showed my fastest club speed.  Total club weight in this config with the Air Speeder 45 was right around 300g

Edited December 8, 2022 by Yacho

[Thayneil]

On 12/6/2022 at 9:11 PM, vernon said:

I couldn't resist any longer and ordered a 45 gram Pro Launch Blue in Senior flex.  Currently playing a Ping G425 Max 10.5 with a Tensei Pro Orange 60 in stiff.  It's the aftermarket Tensei and not the Ping version if that matters.

 

The old Grafalloy Blue in Tour X was my all time favorite shaft and I used to hit that thing a mile but then that was back when I was younger and stronger!

 

The 425 is the first driver I've ever owned with this much loft and it was a mistake.  I thought getting older the extra loft might be a good thing but I was wrong.  Even turned down to the big plus it's a little too high so that might be an issue with the experiment but we'll see.

 

Planning on getting a G430 Max whenever they're released and will be going back to a nine degree head.

 

Looking forward to testing out the Pro Launch Blue nonetheless!

 

It's stuff like this that keeps old guys getting out of bed every morning......

the  Grafalloy  "Tour "  was unusual as it was not stiffer than the  normal Blue but actually softer in flex and slightly higher torque

 

The original  Blue  X   was stiffer than  rebar  but Stenson played it tipped 1.5 inches

 

 

[SE Gamer]

5 hours ago, Yacho said:

 

I was in the same boat last week...   My buddy and I just wanted to see what the hype was all about and do it on the cheap.  If you want to replicate the actual autoflex shaft as close as possible but not buy an autoflex, then this thread has your recipe.  If you want to replicate the concept that was put forth into the mainstream by the autoflex, then your formula is a lightweight, high quality, slightly longer-than-normal shaft that is about 2 flexes softer than what you usually swing.

 

I picked up a new made-for-Taylormade Fujikura Air Speeder 45 A-flex with grip and TM adapter off ebay for $55 shipped to my door.  I think it's a stock option for sim2's or stealths.  Anyway, plug and play.  It weighs in at 49 grams, and plays at 46" in my M1. 

 

My buddy has exactly your setup... original Sim Max with the Ventus blue in stiff, swings 110-112.  After warming up, we tried the Air Speeder in his driver first.  Took a chunk of swings to get used to the new required swing tempo and transition, but after he figured it out he was averaging 4-5mph faster club speed with the senior flex Air Speeder 45.  And, yes, we went back and forth between that and the Ventus a bunch, so there's no warm-up bias there.  Dispersion was questionable in the sample, but not exactly what we were testing for, so won't jump to any conclusions just yet.

 

My turn.  I got a baseline with my M1 and Aldila Rogue silver 110 stiff 70g of about 110mph.  Switched to the Air Speeder and saw about a 3mph jump.  Now, before heading to my buddy's garage sim that night, I cheated a bit and put the Speeder in my M1 and measured swingweight...  right around D8 if I remember right.  Then I took one of the sliding weights out of the head and it re-measured to D1 or around that.  So, naturally, that night on the LM, i popped out the weight and got some new numbers....  about 8mph club speed jump, and when i really went for it, more like 12.  What I recognized with this ultra lightweight setup was how much more I could get my wrists to flip the club through impact vs relying mostly on the arms carrying through.  I was striking the ball poorly that night anyway, but it did seem that smash factor took a bit of a hit with the weight out. 

 

Back to my buddy and his Sim Max.  He's only got the one weight in the back to take out, so we tried it. It's pretty burly (20? 25 grams), so while his clubspeed went way up, smash factor went way down, and ultimately saw no distance gain there.  So there's a happy medium to be found, for sure.

 

I do suggest the Fujikara Air Speeder 45 though, FWIW, just to try the concept and see if you can keep it on the planet.  It can be had cheap, fully built with adapter and grip, and certainly gets you in the wheelhouse.  

 

 

 

Awesome summary. Thank you!

 

I know there are replacement weights of varying weight for the SIM. So dialing it in shouldn't be too tall an order. 

[ode]

Tried this concept ~10+ years ago, 190g head and softer flex shaft ~50g,  ~46" play length, folks were also doing the 175g head and 40+g shaft at ~47".  Yep this was a thing back then too!  What I learned was if I smoothed my temp out it was ok, but any going after it yielded poor results as well as inability to shape any sort of a shot.  It does not fit me at all, not only due to total weight, but clublength, so I was fighting both factors.  I did not see the point of changing my swing for the potential of a few more yards.  Kudos to you guys for not falling for the Autoflex nonsense though😉

[Bad9]

Just now, ode said:

Tried this concept ~10+ years ago, 190g head and softer flex shaft ~50g,  ~46" play length, folks were also doing the 175g head and 40+g shaft at ~47".  Yep this was a thing back then too!  What I learned was if I smoothed my temp out it was ok, but any going after it yielded poor results as well as inability to shape any sort of a shot.  It does not fit me at all, not only due to total weight, but clublength, so I was fighting both factors.  I did not see the point of changing my swing for the potential of a few more yards.  Kudos to you guys for not falling for the Autoflex nonsense though😉

 

Bernie Baymiller?

 

As I read through these AF threads I'm amazed by the ravings of "success" guys have gotten only after going through multiple clubheads, set ups and changing their swing drastically- all to use a $700 shaft.

[ode]

2 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

 

Bernie Baymiller?

 

As I read through these AF threads I'm amazed by the ravings of "success" guys have gotten only after going through multiple clubheads, set ups and changing their swing drastically- all to use a $700 shaft.

Yep, 10years was probably an under estimate, but the older I get the worse I become at approximating time🙃. This was a thing going all the way back to FGI.  DTG 190 and I forget the shaft.  Beautiful head that was.  I remember thinking wtf were people thinking going lighter then this, felt like a wafer on a stick!

[WristySwing]

1 hour ago, ode said:

Yep, 10years was probably an under estimate, but the older I get the worse I become at approximating time🙃. This was a thing going all the way back to FGI.  DTG 190 and I forget the shaft.  Beautiful head that was.  I remember thinking wtf were people thinking going lighter then this, felt like a wafer on a stick!

 

I mean, you're not wrong.  Cleveland tried to pump this to the masses around a decade ago with the Launcher XL270, TM with the Burner Superfast, Adams 90XXX-something, etc.  The only difference being they didn't quite get to 47", but they tried at 45.75/46.  For moderate speed players with smooth transitions, there was distance to be had for all and it was touted as revolutionary.  For anyone with even an iota of aggression from the top, it stunk. I sell AF at the shop I work at, and it is the same thing.  People hear about it and they want to try it, and I can already tell who is going to like it and who is going to hate it.  But everyone wants to hit the revolutionary $1000 shaft.

 

The problem with a lot of these experiments is that for many people the flex doesn't matter and they hit it all over the face and drop ball speed, case and point a few posts above me.  Weight matters far more.  I would bet that quite a few people who struggled with the 40/50g shafts went and tried a 60 or 70g 47" model would have better results.  A shaft is all about timing, it has no idea how to hit a ball, it can only help you gauge when to release.  I am almost tempted to build up an experiment myself, a 60g "red" series shaft, built to 46".  The added length is what gives the speed, not the weight the vast majority of the time.

Edited December 8, 2022 by WristySwing

[ode]

6 minutes ago, WristySwing said:

 

I mean, you're not wrong.  Cleveland tried to pump this to the masses around a decade ago with the Launcher XL270, TM with the Burner Superfast, Adams 90XXX-something, etc.  The only difference being they didn't quite get to 47", but they tried at 45.75/46.  For moderate speed players with smooth transitions, there was distance to be had for all and it was touted as revolutionary.  For anyone with even an iota of aggression from the top, it stunk. I sell AF at the shop I work at, and it is the same thing.  People hear about it and they want to try it, and I can already tell who is going to like it and who is going to hate it.  But everyone wants to hit the revolutionary $1000 shaft.

 

The problem with a lot of these experiments is that for many people the flex doesn't matter and they hit it all over the face and drop ball speed, case and point a few posts above me.  Weight matters far more.  I would bet that quite a few people who struggled with the 40/50g shafts went and tried a 60 or 70g 47" model would have better results.  A shaft is all about timing, it has no idea how to hit a ball, it can only help you gauge when to release.  I am almost tempted to build up an experiment myself, a 60g "red" series shaft, built to 46".  The added length is what gives the speed, not the weight the vast majority of the time.

The OG was BB (as noted by Bad9 above) and he was fitting senior golfers into this concept who were athletic enough to pull it off, and they were seeing big gains in distance vs. the stock gear they were coming from.  I'm not totally poopoo'ing the concept, but 1) it is nothing new, and 2) IMO, it fits a very small segment of golfers.  The quest for distance will always be real and folks will get creative on how to reinvent the wheel to make $.