LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[Titleist99]

2 minutes ago, dcmidnight said:

Again, I just dont care about shorts. If the PGAT announced tomorrow that guys could wear shorts, I wouldn't think it was less professional - I would think you know what, in Memphis in August its 110* and its not 1975 anymore, maybe its OK guys arent wearing long black pants in that weather.

I get what you're saying. I remember going to work on casual Friday, I'm trying to envision everyone in shorts because it was hot..... It's their job, not a casual match at the home course. All the players look like caddies to me😄.

[smashdn]

7 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

Shorts may not have traditionally been allowed in men's professional golf, but they are "golf attire". Nearly every golf course I go to has a stated policy that you're supposed to show up in "golf attire", and a nice pair of golf shorts is perfectly acceptable at every single one of them. You can't wear jeans. You can't wear a t-shirt. But you can wear golf shorts. 

 

It is just a carry over from A) when as a society (in the US anyway) men wore pants nearly always (go look at some pictures of mlb games from the 1940's and men wore suits and hats in the stands) B) when professional golfers were third class citizens in the private club sphere.  Travelling professionals were not always looked upon with reverence.  They fought for a while to get access to locker rooms at clubs just to change and maybe grab a bite to eat.  Some of those clubs still have long pants requirements in their dress codes (their prerogative).  If you are fighting for acceptance and inclusion, you bet you are gonna be buttoned up pretty tight.

 

Clearly, LIV is more casual.  But take a look at any number of threads floating around this forum and it should be pretty obvious that all of golf (and society too) is trending to more casual attire being accepted.

[betarhoalphadelta]

3 minutes ago, Louis_Posture said:

Men are not permitted to wear short pants at Augusta National GC, Cypress Point GC, LA Country Club and more.

 

So you're holding up the richest and most elitist courses in the country as evidence for why things should be kept a certain way? 

 

Without getting political, I'd suggest that maybe some of those courses' history on race & gender within their membership might suggest that they're known for being a little bit "behind the times". Hardly an example that must be followed IMHO. 

 

[jjtour]

10 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

The LPGA doesn't wear shorts. They wear "golf attire", which has largely been defined as allowing skirts for women. And they also wear shorts, which are also considered "golf attire" for both women and men. 

 

Shorts may not have traditionally been allowed in men's professional golf, but they are "golf attire". Nearly every golf course I go to has a stated policy that you're supposed to show up in "golf attire", and a nice pair of golf shorts is perfectly acceptable at every single one of them. You can't wear jeans. You can't wear a t-shirt. But you can wear golf shorts. 

 

 

Sure. I can see you point. I'm also guessing that your local course "golf attire" isnt on tv playing for $4 million winner. I'm not arguing that shorts are bad, what this is about is image. LIV as a whole seems to not understand what it is. It looks pieced together. The logos, the outfits, the team names, the half assed graphics on tv, everything. I cant imagine their merch shop on LIV website is selling out like crazy. No kid is gonna say "mommy I want that fresh Cleeks drop". Honestly no one that respects hard earned money is gonna buy that stuff period. If you want to go the shorts route, make it part of a uniform that looks like it was curated by someone with style that actually knows what they are doing. The wife commented to me "Sergio, whats with the shorts and the red shoe laces. he honestly looks like a clown" I dont disagree. The only piece of attire that I've thought actually looks cool is the Torque teal blue hats they had  on a couple times this weekend. A cool look for the younger crowd. The rest of the teams look like they bought a bunch of clothes on discount at Dick's Sporting Goods and slapped logos on them. For a made for TV product, it's bush league.

[beamlith]

42 minutes ago, jjtour said:

 

So noticed LIV has two guys currently, Laurie Canter and Hudson Swafford, that are not playing on a team. Just playing for individual prize. LIV could have the chance to do the most amazing thing ever, if they did Monday Qualifiers for two spots each week at the moment and put those two qualifiers on an "outsiders" team with Canter and Swafford. Would be quite the rags to riches story if that team somehow managed to podium and win some good cash. Even further down the line if they bring in more players to fill out a permament team, still would be cool to have a team of 4 qualifiers each week that rotates. You dont have to give them exempt status but that would be something. Would also start solving the closed shop idea. Honestly I dont get why LIV is so adament it's their way or the highway for the world ranking points. If you dont fulfill criteria, it's easy for them to say no. Meet the criteria in some fun and interesting ways, seems like a win win. It aint gonna happen, but that's what I would do.

I believe they could do a lot to increase the competitive feel if they made team captaincy based on seasonal performance. Put guys like Phil and Dustin on the hot seat to perform or have their rank taken.

[jjtour]

7 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

It is just a carry over from A) when as a society (in the US anyway) men wore pants nearly always (go look at some pictures of mlb games from the 1940's and men wore suits and hats in the stands) B) when professional golfers were third class citizens in the private club sphere.  Travelling professionals were not always looked upon with reverence.  They fought for a while to get access to locker rooms at clubs just to change and maybe grab a bite to eat.  Some of those clubs still have long pants requirements in their dress codes (their prerogative).  If you are fighting for acceptance and inclusion, you bet you are gonna be buttoned up pretty tight.

 

Clearly, LIV is more casual.  But take a look at any number of threads floating around this forum and it should be pretty obvious that all of golf (and society too) is trending to more casual attire being accepted.

 

The argument for LIV as a whole is why are they bothering with Polo shirts at all. If they want to be casual, a smart marketing move IMO would be drawing from the world of basketball or Soccer. Have a team kit type deal that you can market the hell out of. Not these half a** polo shirts with a Clip art logo on it. Think of all the most iconic jerseys in sports, Yankee pin stripes, Chicago Bulls red/black/white uni's, Barcelona FC and Real Madrid "Los Blancos", I could go on. But it's something you identify with. I dont know how much I'm identifying with the Cleeks or Iron Heads at the moment

[jjtour]

Just now, beamlith said:

I believe they could do a lot to increase the competitive feel if they made team captaincy based on seasonal performance. Put guys like Phil and Dustin on the hot seat to perform or have their rank taken.

Yeah but I dont know what's hooked in for their contracts as far as that goes. The really silly one is Majesticks has 3 captains lol, and Sam Horsfield, the 4th guy on their team is not a captain. Way to tell the guy he isnt important. Phil is rolling in cash and I would guess more of the player operations side than actually out there to make a score anymore. Or he is just that washed, who knows. 

[woahnelly]

32 minutes ago, jjtour said:

 

I think the whole thing regarding this league is the confusion on their image in general. On one hand they are saying "look at all the top guys we are getting. Rahm, Smith, Koepka, Bryson, etc., take us seriously we are a serious league" but then on the other side they are so casual with some stuff its like they are just there to bum around while playing for massive amounts of cash. The shorts thing, is not professional. It's casual by nature, it just doesnt look right. Maybe it's just because we have seen pants at every pro level forever, it's still just odd to see. Brooks is out there rolling around in all Nike gear, no indication he is actually the captain of the Smash GC. Screams, "I dont care about this thing as much as I care about my own shine". If you happened to see the broadcast booth of Arlo White, Jerry Foltz and Faherty, they clearly just dressed themselves with no coordination even though they know they will be on TV. Arlo and Foltz looked like they picked up their outfits from walmart two years ago and this is what they decided to pack. Like you could atleast get these guys matching LIV golf polo shirts or something to indicate they are part of the organization. It's just an odd attitude to have. If this league didnt have a trillion dollars pumping into it, you would think it was put together as a college project. And that's insulting to college projects. 

 

I think BK may still be under contract w Nike - last year guys like Niemann, Pieters, HV3 were still wearing their sponsored gear but now are wearing team merch in '24.  But I agree, the first thing about being on a "team" should be looking uniform. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

6 minutes ago, jjtour said:

 

Sure. I can see you point. I'm also guessing that your local course "golf attire" isnt on tv playing for $4 million winner. I'm not arguing that shorts are bad, what this is about is image. LIV as a whole seems to not understand what it is. It looks pieced together. The logos, the outfits, the team names, the half assed graphics on tv, everything. I cant imagine their merch shop on LIV website is selling out like crazy. No kid is gonna say "mommy I want that fresh Cleeks drop". Honestly no one that respects hard earned money is gonna buy that stuff period. If you want to go the shorts route, make it part of a uniform that looks like it was curated by someone with style that actually knows what they are doing. The wife commented to me "Sergio, whats with the shorts and the red shoe laces. he honestly looks like a clown" I dont disagree. The only piece of attire that I've thought actually looks cool is the Torque teal blue hats they had  on a couple times this weekend. A cool look for the younger crowd. The rest of the teams look like they bought a bunch of clothes on discount at Dick's Sporting Goods and slapped logos on them. For a made for TV product, it's bush league.

 

With you 100% on the LIV image. Seems like a complete hodge-podge and they have no clue what the heck they're doing. Feel like the shorts thing for LIV is part of that; "The PGAT doesn't allow shorts, but we're going to allow shorts because we're cooler than them." Except LIV isn't cool. They just think they are. 

 

But like @dcmidnight I just don't get, individually and not LIV-related, the hate for shorts. 

[jjtour]

Just now, woahnelly said:

 

I think BK may still be under contract w Nike - last year guys like Niemann, Pieters, HV3 were still wearing their sponsored gear but now are wearing team merch in '24.  But I agree, the first thing about being on a "team" should be looking uniform. 

I has to be the strict Nike "no other logos" deal, cuz even on the team website he is in all Nike stuff, no logo at all. Which again from a LIV perspective, throw enough money at Brooks to either A)buy out his contract at Nike so he can promote your brand, not theirs or B) again throw enough money at Nike to permit them to atleast have their Team Logo on the shirt or Hat or something. The argument I would say is Brooks is probably their most marketable player, even with Rahm coming on board. He was the first LIV guy to win a major playing on the league, and has the younger marketing demographic. He just looks like a Nike athlete, and younger people identify with that. Still feels like there should be more tie in to LIV though

[jjtour]

4 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

With you 100% on the LIV image. Seems like a complete hodge-podge and they have no clue what the heck they're doing. Feel like the shorts thing for LIV is part of that; "The PGAT doesn't allow shorts, but we're going to allow shorts because we're cooler than them." Except LIV isn't cool. They just think they are. 

 

But like @dcmidnight I just don't get, individually and not LIV-related, the hate for shorts. 

 

I dont hate shorts, I dont know anyone that hates shorts. I think it's just an odd look for professionals that will take alot of getting used to. Especially with what it's paired with. When you wear shorts and tucking in a collared shirt with non-athletic shoes like FJ premiers, it looks goofy. It doesnt say casual it says not put together. And a professional golfer should have a put together look, not like I got dressed in the dark. A more solid casual look is a nice shirt untucked with shorts, even like athletic shorts and athletic shoes like Jordans or whatever. Now at least you look like you're playing a sport. If someone rolled up to an NBA game wearing a tucked in collared shirt, shorts and "dress shoes" it would look goofy as hell. Golf is supposed to be a sport, look the part.

[woahnelly]

8 minutes ago, jjtour said:

 

I dont hate shorts, I dont know anyone that hates shorts. I think it's just an odd look for professionals that will take alot of getting used to. Especially with what it's paired with. When you wear shorts and tucking in a collared shirt with non-athletic shoes like FJ premiers, it looks goofy. It doesnt say casual it says not put together. And a professional golfer should have a put together look, not like I got dressed in the dark. A more solid casual look is a nice shirt untucked with shorts, even like athletic shorts and athletic shoes like Jordans or whatever. Now at least you look like you're playing a sport. If someone rolled up to an NBA game wearing a tucked in collared shirt, shorts and "dress shoes" it would look goofy as hell. Golf is supposed to be a sport, look the part.

 

A nice pair of shorts still look more professional than wearing joggers 😂

[jjtour]

Just now, woahnelly said:

 

A nice pair of shorts still look more professional than wearing joggers 😂

 

Again, joggers are a casual look. And you wear them to essentially show off your sneakers. But tucking in to super bright, multi color design polo to joggers looks goofy. It just doesnt jive with the sporty look. A nice pair of shorts/joggers, with an athletic top. Anything that fits well also looks better. Some of these guys wearing joggers that are 2 sizes too small is whack.

[ilikegolf26]

2 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Literally watched the last hour without seeing it once. During the playoff they kept mentioning how much shorter Sergio was - did not show distances one single time. I'm not blind, I can see my TV just fine.

You sure? Right there on the left. All day. 

 

 

From playoff:

 

 

Edited February 5 by ilikegolf26

[idrive]

It would be very difficult to say liv is growing the game when you see how much it has divided the fans. You know, the guys that actually play golf, watch golf.

 

Participate on golf forums.

 

I dare say there has never been this much division, disagreement in the professional golf world. Now the time is spent on beating each other over the head rather than talking golf.

 

 

 

 

[getitdaily]

Interesting comment from Nieman after his win yesterday 

 

"I think I have a different mindset for this year,” Niemann said Sunday evening. “It kind of hurt me a little bit not being in the majors, and I think also helped me to get motivation to kind of earn my spot back into the majors, into the elite players. I think it helped me a little bit to get focused back, to start working harder, to start working with a purpose. I think it’s paying off, and I just want to keep telling myself that I’m capable of doing this"

 

I thought LIV would see ultimate competitiveness from their "elite" players...this take from Nieman suggests what we all know, not having guaranteed money and having to earn your way to better tournaments is a pillar of the sport. Having that guaranteed money makes one complacent...that's a bit of an indictment on LIV..

Edited February 5 by getitdaily

[Louis_Posture]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

So you're holding up the richest and most elitist courses in the country as evidence for why things should be kept a certain way? 

 

 

 

Not really. I am old fashion and like certain traditions, such as men wearing long pants while playing golf, ties required at fancy special occasion restaurants, no hats permitted indoors etc... For me it's not about money or elitism, it's about respect.

For men's professional golf tournaments, I prefer a formal atmosphere and believe that players or caddies wearing short pants is inappropriate, too casual.

[jjtour]

6 minutes ago, idrive said:

It would be very difficult to say liv is growing the game when you see how much it has divided the fans. You know, the guys that actually play golf, watch golf.

 

Participate on golf forums.

 

I dare say there has never been this much division, disagreement in the professional golf world. Now the time is spent on beating each other over the head rather than talking golf.

 

 

 

 

 

 "Grow the game" is a convenient catch phrase they came up with to justify all these guys taking the money. Just because they play music and wear shorts hasnt grown it at all from what already exists in casual golf. No one has watched a LIV broadcast and said to themselves "they play music on course so I'm going to also". Covid pandemic grew the game, if anything LIV is shrinking the game with barriers to entry that only the people we choose get into our league, not by merit.

[One Putter]

1 hour ago, jjtour said:

 

The argument for LIV as a whole is why are they bothering with Polo shirts at all. If they want to be casual, a smart marketing move IMO would be drawing from the world of basketball or Soccer. Have a team kit type deal that you can market the hell out of. Not these half a** polo shirts with a Clip art logo on it. Think of all the most iconic jerseys in sports, Yankee pin stripes, Chicago Bulls red/black/white uni's, Barcelona FC and Real Madrid "Los Blancos", I could go on. But it's something you identify with. I dont know how much I'm identifying with the Cleeks or Iron Heads at the moment

The reason teams will never work is because when you root for a team sport, you root for whatever team represents your city. The liv teams are just random names that nobody has any connection to.

 

As far as the shorts thing goes, i agree. You wanna be a pro, dress like a pro. It doesnt look good when they wear shorts. It doesn't scream "professional golfers are playing an important round of golf". I do not care about anyone wearing shorts when they play golf. But when you are offering a TV product, the players need to look like pros.

Edited February 5 by One Putter

[munichop]

I watched yesterday since Pebble was a washout.  This was the 2nd time I watched and I think the coverage has improved from last year.  It takes a while to understand the graphics but once you realize the team and individual info and the holes left identified it makes the context of each shot easier to follow.  It does amaze me the number of recognizable players that are now part of that league. I still believe the majority of the format and competition is based on increasing betting but most sports do that too.  One thing I noticed was way more golf shots were shown and there were fewer commenrcial breaks.  Since the backers of the league have infinite resources I don't see it going away.  And the more stories of a kid playing golf in college to a million dollar payday the next week the more it will gain traction with the junior golfers.  The longer it goes on the more LIV will be accepted, especially by younger audiences.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

6 minutes ago, One Putter said:

The reason teams will never work is because when you root for a team sport, you root for whatever team represents your city. The liv teams are just random names that nobody has any connection to.

 

As far as the shorts thing goes, i agree. You wanna be a pro, dress like a pro. It doesnt look good when they wear shorts. It doesn't scream "professional golfers are playing an important round of golf". I do not care about anyone wearing shorts when they play golf. But when you are offering a TV product, the players need to look like pros.

I don't care about the shorts but you nailed the part about the teams. No one cares. 

[tyland42]

250 posts in this thread discussing shorts being unprofessional. 

 

 

Not enough talk about non-baseball players wearing baseball caps, especially at their job. 

 

Unacceptable.

 

[wedgegame]

4 minutes ago, One Putter said:

The reason teams will never work is because when you root for a team sport, you root for whatever team represents your city. The liv teams are just random names that nobody has any connection to.

I think this is where the connection to F1 keeps coming up.  As far as I know, F1 teams are tied to brand not a location, and I think that was the vision for LIV.  I would imagine they envisioned having a team Callaway and Taylormade, but the major OEMs haven't bought in.  I'll get some flak for this, but I think eSports has done a pretty good job of cultivating iconic teams that aren't necessarily tied to a specific geography.  They did it by making the athletes/talents (don't want to open that can of worms) the driving factor in team fandom.  They are more accessible via social media, Twitch, etc and fans form a connection with them.  I have nothing against Ian Poulter, but in no way do I (and I'd wager many other people) find him relatable.  Alternatively, I think Bryson is the closest to this.

[jjtour]

34 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Interesting comment from Nieman after his win yesterday 

 

"I think I have a different mindset for this year,” Niemann said Sunday evening. “It kind of hurt me a little bit not being in the majors, and I think also helped me to get motivation to kind of earn my spot back into the majors, into the elite players. I think it helped me a little bit to get focused back, to start working harder, to start working with a purpose. I think it’s paying off, and I just want to keep telling myself that I’m capable of doing this"

 

I thought LIV would see ultimate competitiveness from their "elite" players...this take from Nieman suggests what we all know, not having guaranteed money and having to earn your way to better tournaments is a pillar of the sport. Having that guaranteed money makes one complacent...that's a bit of an indictment on LIV..

 

Yeah I did catch that from him as well. I think he also said something at the end of his interview along the lines of "I want to win majors, but I cant get in", to which the interviewer said "oh well hopefully that changes" or something to that effect. Which it wont since this is a non-OGWR counting event. It is sad, since there are a lot of guys that deserve exemptions into majors, like Niemann. Probably been one of the hotter players on any tour since fall. But that's another discussion.

[ahenderX]

10 minutes ago, wedgegame said:

I think this is where the connection to F1 keeps coming up.  As far as I know, F1 teams are tied to brand not a location, and I think that was the vision for LIV.  I would imagine they envisioned having a team Callaway and Taylormade, but the major OEMs haven't bought in.  I'll get some flak for this, but I think eSports has done a pretty good job of cultivating iconic teams that aren't necessarily tied to a specific geography.  They did it by making the athletes/talents (don't want to open that can of worms) the driving factor in team fandom.  They are more accessible via social media, Twitch, etc and fans form a connection with them.  I have nothing against Ian Poulter, but in no way do I (and I'd wager many other people) find him relatable.  Alternatively, I think Bryson is the closest to this.

I have never understood the comparison between F1 and LIV Golf. 

Edited February 5 by ahenderX

[jjtour]

22 minutes ago, One Putter said:

The reason teams will never work is because when you root for a team sport, you root for whatever team represents your city. The liv teams are just random names that nobody has any connection to.

 

As far as the shorts thing goes, i agree. You wanna be a pro, dress like a pro. It doesnt look good when they wear shorts. It doesn't scream "professional golfers are playing an important round of golf". I do not care about anyone wearing shorts when they play golf. But when you are offering a TV product, the players need to look like pros.

 

I 100% agree regarding the teams affiliated with a city or country. They have half assed done it with Fireballs being all spanish, Torque being latin americans, Stinger being all south africans, there are some all euro teams, some all american teams. If it was me, I would have those teams more associated with their countries and have a home event for each one of them. Build that following. Rather than having random events in nashville and miami and greenbrier. You want to build team concepts you need team atmosphere. This also goes along with uniforms. While I dont disagree with you regarding professionalism not wearing shorts, it does look weird as is. If you had actual team uniforms that wasnt basically dress yourself with this one team polo we give you. Other team sports wear shorts, Soccer, Basketball, etc. They wear team kits though not half assed stuff thrown together from the local sporting good store. It can look professional without wearing pants, if you do it right.

[j.b.newton]

When is the Rory vs Jordan cage match?

[bcjim]

6 minutes ago, jjtour said:

 

Yeah I did catch that from him as well. I think he also said something at the end of his interview along the lines of "I want to win majors, but I cant get in", to which the interviewer said "oh well hopefully that changes" or something to that effect. Which it wont since this is a non-OGWR counting event. It is sad, since there are a lot of guys that deserve exemptions into majors, like Niemann. Probably been one of the hotter players on any tour since fall. But that's another discussion.

When you chip away all the filler and has-been golfers,  who are these guys even beating?  Even is they got points,  it would hero level points. If that. Beating Chase koepka isn't going to boost MY rating!

[woahnelly]

7 minutes ago, bcjim said:

When you chip away all the filler and has-been golfers,  who are these guys even beating?  Even is they got points,  it would hero level points. If that. Beating Chase koepka isn't going to boost MY rating!

 

Chase Koepka has been kicked off LIV, we should probably ask Brooks for a welfare check on him next presser. But I'm sure he's living the good life with all his LIV earnings 😂. Maybe we will see him on a Purdue Global commercial in the near future. 

[jjtour]

6 minutes ago, bcjim said:

When you chip away all the filler and has-been golfers,  who are these guys even beating?  Even is they got points,  it would hero level points. If that. Beating Chase koepka isn't going to boost MY rating!

 

What guys? Brooks winning the PGA last year not good enough? Yes there are some filler guys. Top 15-20 players though are 100% world class, no denying that. Neimann won the Australian Open in December, multiple guys have been top 10s at majors. I'm not a LIV apologizer at all, but there are legit top players in LIV you cant argue that.