LIV Tour Discussion Thread (*** NO POLITICS ***)

[tomjas]

Watching the final round of Macau today as I enjoy golf from different locations 

 

Puig is an enormous talent with star potential while Catlin is a good player bouncing back from a tough time 

 

Enjoyable event

 

Will be interesting to see where the DPWT goes from here as paying Rory to turn up for a couple of early events isn’t the most compelling model & can’t imagine that the Sheikh is entirely thrilled at it being an afterthought for much of the year  

 

It’s essentially a real estate & tourism play anyway and they might determine that the money is better spent elsewhere sooner rather than later 

 

 

 

 

[tomjas]

Happy for Catlin as he seems like a good guy and has been through some tough times 

[Short Pete]

These International Series events are second tier at best. There may be a few dudes who can make it to the big show. If Puig has star potential, then he should win events like the Macau constantly. If LIV wouldn’t push their paid players to tee it up there no one would give a flying  youknowwhat about the Macau Open. 
 

The markets that count are the US, Europe and Australia. The LIV dudes push the International Series because they fail to leave a mark on the relevant markets. That’s the ticket. 

[tomjas]

21 minutes ago, Short Pete said:

These International Series events are second tier at best. There may be a few dudes who can make it to the big show. If Puig has star potential, then he should win events like the Macau constantly. If LIV wouldn’t push their paid players to tee it up there no one would give a flying  youknowwhat about the Macau Open. 
 

The markets that count are the US, Europe and Australia. The LIV dudes push the International Series because they fail to leave a mark on the relevant markets. That’s the ticket. 

Puig is 22

 

He’s already won an International Series event, runner up in another plus won an Asian Tour event and finished 39th in his only major appearance 

Who’s better at his age in the world?

Kim & maybe Hojgaard, Bhatia?

Edited March 17 by tomjas

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, iBanesto said:

David Puig v John Catlin playoff in the International Series Macau right now.

 

Puig almost holed out for eagle on the 1st play off hole.

[tomjas]

For those knocking the standard of the field, I suggest that you look at the quality (or lack thereof) of your typical ones on all bar full PGAT and LIV

 

Simple fact is that quality has been diluted and your average DPWT, opposite PGA and full strength Korn Ferry are worse than this one 

[iBanesto]

9 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

The 1st playoff hole was quite chaotic.

 

Catlin hit a horrendous 2nd shot way right which almost went OB but was able to drop in the drop zone. He did very well to get up and down with a clutch putt.

 

Puig missed a similar putt to stay in the playoff on the 2nd playoff hole.

 

Well done to Catlin who has no taken the typical tour golf route for US players by going to the Asian Tour then European Tour.

 

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, tomjas said:

For those knocking the standard of the field, I suggest that you look at the quality (or lack thereof) of your typical ones on all bar full PGAT and LIV

 

Simple fact is that quality has been diluted and your average DPWT, opposite PGA and full strength Korn Ferry are worse than this one 

 

The quality of the course, the quality of the challenge and the overall quality of the field in this Asian Tour event was . . . . . . WEAK.

 

No idea why you persist with things that aren't factually correct and late to the party repeating of the old stuff over and over.

 

Yep, a very, very few of the players in that field are relevant as among the best players in the world - toss most of the guys playing in The Players into that field and the top 25 on that leaderboard would have been stuffed to the gills with them, let alone the rest of the spots.  Heck the top 10 isn't exciting at all except for the two young guys at the top.

 

Enjoy it if you like it, but no need to keep campaigning.

 

Edit:  no idea why I'm talking top 25, just look at everyone above the cut line.  4 or 5 really good players in general, the rest . . . not so much compared with the talent on the PGAT, DP upper echelon and dare I say KFT.  

 

Nothing wrong with the event and glad to see the Asian Tour is having events, but it's not a referendum on anything other than the PGAT is still the show.

Edited March 17 by Hawkeye77

[Short Pete]

3 hours ago, tomjas said:

For those knocking the standard of the field, I suggest that you look at the quality (or lack thereof) of your typical ones on all bar full PGAT and LIV

 

Simple fact is that quality has been diluted and your average DPWT, opposite PGA and full strength Korn Ferry are worse than this one 

No, they are not! This field in Macau consisted of a handful of rank and file PGA Tour players who left for LIV, and a wide array of journeymen from around the world. David Puig, he was a regular on LIV last year, right. He has won exactly nothing there. The only field that is really weak is the LIV field. The guys from LIV don’t even dominate the Macau Open. Look at the depth of the field in the TPC. Half of these guys play the weaker PGA events regularly and qualify for the Tour after having qualified the year before. Hungry players like Austin Eckroat would be money machines on LIV. Because none of the stars there play their best. 

[idrive]

11 minutes ago, Short Pete said:

 Hungry players like Austin Eckroat would be money machines on LIV. Because none of the stars there play their best. 

 Because they don't have to having been paid up front.  Sad.

[MaineMariner]

6 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

The 1st playoff hole was quite chaotic.

 

Catlin hit a horrendous 2nd shot way right which almost went OB but was able to drop in the drop zone. He did very well to get up and down with a clutch putt.

 

Puig missed a similar putt to stay in the playoff on the 2nd playoff hole.

 

Well done to Catlin who has no taken the typical tour golf route for US players by going to the Asian Tour then European Tour.

 

He lost his card on the DPWT, which is why he was back playing the Asian Tour. Started on the Canadian Tour, then Asian, then advanced to Europe, finally back to Asia. Pretty wild ride.

[Shilgy]

9 hours ago, tomjas said:

Watching the final round of Macau today as I enjoy golf from different locations 

 

Puig is an enormous talent with star potential while Catlin is a good player bouncing back from a tough time 

 

Enjoyable event

 

Will be interesting to see where the DPWT goes from here as paying Rory to turn up for a couple of early events isn’t the most compelling model & can’t imagine that the Sheikh is entirely thrilled at it being an afterthought for much of the year  

 

It’s essentially a real estate & tourism play anyway and they might determine that the money is better spent elsewhere sooner rather than later 

 

 

 

 

I’m confused about the DP Tour comment.  This event in Macau was not a DP event.😏

[Pops99]

7 hours ago, tomjas said:

For those knocking the standard of the field, I suggest that you look at the quality (or lack thereof) of your typical ones on all bar full PGAT and LIV

 

Simple fact is that quality has been diluted and your average DPWT, opposite PGA and full strength Korn Ferry are worse than this one 

Well, of all the takes I've read on here. This is definitely one of them lol

 

Yikes. 

[ALIF]

5 hours ago, Short Pete said:

No, they are not! This field in Macau consisted of a handful of rank and file PGA Tour players who left for LIV, and a wide array of journeymen from around the world. David Puig, he was a regular on LIV last year, right. He has won exactly nothing there. The only field that is really weak is the LIV field. The guys from LIV don’t even dominate the Macau Open. Look at the depth of the field in the TPC. Half of these guys play the weaker PGA events regularly and qualify for the Tour after having qualified the year before. Hungry players like Austin Eckroat would be money machines on LIV. Because none of the stars there play their best. 

Just to play devil's advocate then, why hasn't Jon Rahm won? He's arguably the number two player in the world. He should win every tournament by a mile if that's the reasoning. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle of both of the extreme and very emotional points of view. That middle is this: there are many good players on both the PGA Tour and LIV golf. LIV is not deep like the PGA Tour is but the top 10 maybe 15 guys on LIV could still compete and win on the PGA Tour. I think for the people that are incredibly emotionally invested in this whole PGA Tour LIV golf debate that hurts. I think from a purely objective point of view, the point I just mentioned, it is very reasonable conclusion.

[CasualLie]

1 hour ago, ALIF said:

Just to play devil's advocate then, why hasn't Jon Rahm won? He's arguably the number two player in the world. He should win every tournament by a mile if that's the reasoning. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle of both of the extreme and very emotional points of view. That middle is this: there are many good players on both the PGA Tour and LIV golf. LIV is not deep like the PGA Tour is but the top 10 maybe 15 guys on LIV could still compete and win on the PGA Tour. I think for the people that are incredibly emotionally invested in this whole PGA Tour LIV golf debate that hurts. I think from a purely objective point of view, the point I just mentioned, it is very reasonable conclusion.

 

And the top 150 of the PGAT (that would be all of them), could compete and win on the LIV exhibition tour.  So yes, to your point the truth somewhere in the middle.  Just not "the middle", not even close.

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, ALIF said:

Just to play devil's advocate then, why hasn't Jon Rahm won? He's arguably the number two player in the world. He should win every tournament by a mile if that's the reasoning. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle of both of the extreme and very emotional points of view. That middle is this: there are many good players on both the PGA Tour and LIV golf. LIV is not deep like the PGA Tour is but the top 10 maybe 15 guys on LIV could still compete and win on the PGA Tour. I think for the people that are incredibly emotionally invested in this whole PGA Tour LIV golf debate that hurts. I think from a purely objective point of view, the point I just mentioned, it is very reasonable conclusion.

 

Not really that good of an argument.

 

Is he working out like he did before? Is he practicing like he did before? Is he enjoying having to go overseas? Is he motivated to win, and for all the history of the PGA tour and the game of golf, and for all the personal goals he claimed to have that caused him to speak out against LIV?

 

One objective answer and one only:  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

 

Edited March 17 by Hawkeye77

[tomjas]

2 hours ago, Pops99 said:

Well, of all the takes I've read on here. This is definitely one of them lol

 

Yikes. 

I suggest that you look at the entry list for the next DPWT event, the Singapore Porsche Classic 

 

Used to be a quality tournament but is now a middle of the road DPWT event with a weaker field than Macau

 

That’s typical of DPWT events these days 

[tomjas]

1 hour ago, CasualLie said:

 

And the top 150 of the PGAT (that would be all of them), could compete and win on the LIV exhibition tour.  So yes, to your point the truth somewhere in the middle.  Just not "the middle", not even close.

lol

 

A 150 player would definitely beat Rahm (because he ain’t winning)

 

Good luck with that prediction 

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, tomjas said:

I suggest that you look at the entry list for the next DPWT event, the Singapore Porsche Classic 

 

Used to be a quality tournament but is now a middle of the road DPWT event with a weaker field than Macau

 

That’s typical of DPWT events these days 

And you think LIV is stronger because you recognize more names.  Could say the same thing about Champions Tour.

[Hawkeye77]

5 minutes ago, tomjas said:

I suggest that you look at the entry list for the next DPWT event, the Singapore Porsche Classic 

 

Used to be a quality tournament but is now a middle of the road DPWT event with a weaker field than Macau

 

That’s typical of DPWT events these days 

 

LOL, until last year the European Tour hadn't been to Singapore since 2014 - 9 year hiatus, it's really not even the same tournament, but since it's in Singapore they hail back to the previous and discontinued event.  

 

DP World is what it is - overall fun to watch and plenty of good golf. 

[tomjas]

2 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

And you think LIV is stronger because you recognize more names.  Could say the same thing about Champions Tour.

I actually watch the DPWT and have done for years as I lived in Dubai for a decade 

 

Hardly a secret that the tour has been gutted of quality 

[Shilgy]

Just now, tomjas said:

I actually watch the DPWT and have done for years as I lived in Dubai for a decade 

 

Hardly a secret that the tour has been gutted of quality 

Their top 50 are still better than 54 tour top to bottom.  Top 10 would be in LIV favor.

[tomjas]

Just now, Shilgy said:

Their top 50 are still better than 54 tour top to bottom.  Top 10 would be in LIV favor.

Not true anymore plus the top DPWT members rarely play in a typical event 

 

Rory is a DPWT member and gets most of his points from co-sanctioned events like the majors

 

This fact sums up where the DPWT is at present 

 

Rory was awarded a $200k bonus for topping the international swing segment of the tour

 

He played in 2/9 events with the remainder being lowly ranked events due to field quality 

 

Pelley stuffed that tour big time 

[Hawkeye77]

 

Haha, I got a notification Cactus Jack reacted to a few of my posts - it was puzzling until I got a later notification that the site limit on the use of the confused emoji has been reached for the month of March.

[Hawkeye77]

Guarantee nobody finishing second in any exhibition league event will be as gutted as Clark was today on 18 after he missed his putt and you can be Xander is as well, just hiding it better.

 

It's real and it matters out there.

[ALIF]

1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Not really that good of an argument.

 

Is he working out like he did before? Is he practicing like he did before? Is he enjoying having to go overseas? Is he motivated to win, and for all the history of the PGA tour and the game of golf, and for all the personal goals he claimed to have that caused him to speak out against LIV?

 

One objective answer and one only:  $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

 

 

I’m not really sure what you mean by “not really that good of an argument “. Unless you’re just stating your opinion? Because this fallacy has already been disproven. Brooks won the PGA. He and Phil were second at the Master’s. I mean Phil, who fell off the face of the Earth for a while came back while playing LIV golf and almost won the Master’s. Niemann won the Australian Open. Ancer won a DP Tour event in the Middle East. Patrick Reed almost beat Rory in Dubai a few months ago. I’m not defending LIV I’m just saying it is totally irrational to think that just because some guys went to LIV they forgot how to play high-level tournament golf or either lost their desire to do so. I mean, that’s maybe what all of the people against LIV golf want to think because it makes them feel better but it’s obviously not the case.  I guess people can always choose to see and hear only what they want to see and hear. But, that is not objectivity. I’m not defending the PGA tour or LIV. I don’t have a side in this argument because quite frankly I really don’t care. It would just be nice for both sides to have more of an open mind and give credit where credit is due.

[Shilgy]

3 minutes ago, ALIF said:

I’m not really sure what you mean by “not really that good of an argument “. Unless you’re just stating your opinion? Because this fallacy has already been disproven. Brooks won the PGA. He and Phil were second at the Master’s. I mean Phil, who fell off the face of the Earth for a while came back while playing LIV golf and almost won the Master’s. Niemann won the Australian Open. Ancer won a DP Tour event in the Middle East. Patrick Reed almost beat Rory in Dubai a few months ago. I’m not defending LIV I’m just saying it is totally irrational to think that just because some guys went to LIV they forgot how to play high-level tournament golf or either lost their desire to do so. I mean, that’s maybe what all of the people against LIV golf want to think because it makes them feel better but it’s obviously not the case.  I guess people can always choose to see and hear only what they want to see and hear. But, that is not objectivity. I’m not defending the PGA tour or LIV. I don’t have a side in this argument because quite frankly I really don’t care. It would just be nice for both sides to have more of an open mind and give credit where credit is due.

Phil had a great Masters…heck the LIV Tour as a whole…well 4 of the top 6…had a good Masters.  So does Phil just play like crap on LIV because he no longer cares?  He certainly has not been very good, has he?

 

Sounds to me like we really are all saying the same thing.  There are a few top quality players still on LIV…and there are many former big name players that are going through the motions at most events.

[tomjas]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

Phil had a great Masters…heck the LIV Tour as a whole…well 4 of the top 6…had a good Masters.  So does Phil just play like crap on LIV because he no longer cares?  He certainly has not been very good, has he?

 

Sounds to me like we really are all saying the same thing.  There are a few top quality players still on LIV…and there are many former big name players that are going through the motions at most events.

Professionals rarely go through the motions as they’re competitive animals 

 

Sometimes they play well and sometimes they don’t while others are passed their best 

 

Is Adam Scott just going through the motions because he’s rich?

[Hawkeye77]

21 minutes ago, ALIF said:

I’m not really sure what you mean by “not really that good of an argument “. Unless you’re just stating your opinion? Because this fallacy has already been disproven. Brooks won the PGA. He and Phil were second at the Master’s. I mean Phil, who fell off the face of the Earth for a while came back while playing LIV golf and almost won the Master’s. Niemann won the Australian Open. Ancer won a DP Tour event in the Middle East. Patrick Reed almost beat Rory in Dubai a few months ago. I’m not defending LIV I’m just saying it is totally irrational to think that just because some guys went to LIV they forgot how to play high-level tournament golf or either lost their desire to do so. I mean, that’s maybe what all of the people against LIV golf want to think because it makes them feel better but it’s obviously not the case.  I guess people can always choose to see and hear only what they want to see and hear. But, that is not objectivity. I’m not defending the PGA tour or LIV. I don’t have a side in this argument because quite frankly I really don’t care. It would just be nice for both sides to have more of an open mind and give credit where credit is due.

 

I've already said some of the guys are still among the best in the world (you might read what is said rather than repeating something that has little to do with what I was saying).  Overall were the really good LIV guys world beaters in the majors? No. Did some play well or really well? Of course. We'll leave Phil out of it, he's off the face of the earth again as he'll continue to be.

 

Just proves my point.  Some will grind and get ready for a major --- are they doing that for the exhibition league events?  No way.  Is the quality of golf in the exhibition league anywhere near that in any of the majors?  Not even in the same galaxy.  Same for week in and week out on the Tour.  In relative terms, same for DP, KFT, real competitive tours.  S__ts and giggles is what the exhibition league is all about, it's never really been about high level and real competition and that's been shown over and over and proven by its own words and actions and the players' words and actions.

 

Come on.  

 

 

Edited March 17 by Hawkeye77

[Hawkeye77]

10 minutes ago, tomjas said:

Professionals rarely go through the motions as they’re competitive animals 

 

 

The exhibition league is full of it, lol.  You don't know much about pro sports and really are overgeneralizing - plenty of athletes dog it from time to time and have throughout history, some whenever they can get away with it.  When you turn golf into a traveling exhibition with no consequences for bad play and riches beyond imagination, you invite lack of motivation and get it.