Thoughts on golf coach caddying for your junior?

[kekoa]

Just wondering how you guys feel about this.  I've seen a few train wrecks in tournament play where a coach (putting or swing) caddies for a player.  A lot of times this type of arrangement does more harm than good especially when things start to go a bit sideways.  

[MikekiM]

I think it'll depend on the maturity of the player. I know my kid needs a psychologist and caddie in one.  I don't think our coach would be up for the challenge.

Call me up if you need a caddie.. I'm much cheaper, just 2 a side.. 😉

 

 

 

[Abh159]

It will be fine if he's just helping him with reading putts, club selection, general motivation, and etc.

 

However, if the coach is dumb enough to try and fix mechanical issues mid-round then you're asking for trouble.

[Pepperturbo]

It all depends on the dynamics between the junior and coach.  There is No blanket answer.

[ChipNRun]

I volunteered as a range helper and course marshal at a couple of national-level amateur tournaments. I saw instances of both college coaches and hometown golf pros caddying for players. It depends on how the coach-player get along with each other.

 

Again, these were high school and college players and adults, not 10-year-olds.

 

A more touchy situation came in a Symetra Tour event (LPGA developmental, now called Epson Tour). A local man and I were volunteer caddies for two women in our threesome; the third woman - I'll call her Mary - had her golf instructor caddying for her. Whenever Mary had a bad shot or missed a close putt, this instructor-caddy would tear her to pieces verbally. Harsh tone all the way. This caddie was old enough to be Mary's father. The other caddie and I were debating whether to take him off to the side and tell him to tone it down.

 

Update: Five years later, Mary has been making cuts and even won two tournament. Not sure if she has her old caddie or not.

Edited August 16, 2022 by ChipNRun

[mojomover]

A friend of ours was caddying for his daughter in the recent USKG worlds. He shared how one of the girls they were paired up with was playing really well for the front 9 with the mom as a caddy, a couple under par or something like that. But then the putting coach took over from the mom for the back 9 and it ended up being a train wreck. The coach insisted on slowing down, over analyzed putts and likely caused more doubt in the stroke- she finished with 3-4 bogeys, mostly because of 3 putts. Sample size of 1 but still... 

[MahalNeneng]

My sons instructor (great at what he does) does not have the ability to separate that and be a caddie for him, just doesnt work. Now having said that he has been a caddie for me in the distant past and was great 🙂

[hangontight]

"Coach" or Swing Instructor?  Probably different answer for each.

 

SWING INSTRUCTOR 

 

As the Rock says, KNOW YOUR ROLE!   Whoever is on the bag, WHILE caddying you need to be the caddie...not a disciplinarian, not a teacher.   Whenever you have a crossover on the bag -mom, dad, swing instructor...you risk compromising the situation, and it's probably very hard for most Junior Golfers to truly understand and embrace the role - they are going to carry over certain relationship dynamics & expectations that are not necessarily helpful for the on course player-caddie relationship for those 4 hours.  I imagine its like working with your wife, haha.  In one part of your life your relationship is a certain way, but 9-5 its something completely different.   Most adults are mature enough to successfully shuffle hats, but most junior golfers probably cant.    If swing instructor is on the bag, junior may be thinking more about P2 hand position than sending the ball to the target with confidence.

 

Reality - is it feasible to have a designated caddie for your junior that isnt a parent or coach? Heck No! (not for most, anyway).  Do I think he would play better with a designated caddie that was a great personality fit and had no other emotional/relational conflict? Yes.    Have I enjoyed the years looping for him?  Yes, lots of great memories I wouldn't trade for anything.  

 

COACH ?   

 

My son doesn't see a swing instructor, but I've talked to a guy who plays more of a "Coach" role about helping out.  He is big on game management, strategy, expectations, etc.  Strokes gained and Decade type thinking.  He does offer caddying as a service...which I could see being a good fit.  

 

 

  

 

 

Edited August 19, 2022 by hangontight

[leezer99]

40 minutes ago, hangontight said:

My son doesn't see a swing instructor, but I've talked to a guy who plays more of a "Coach" role about helping out.  He is big on game management, strategy, expectations, etc.  Strokes gained and Decade type thinking.  He does offer caddying as a service...which I could see being a good fit.  

 

What's his rate for caddying as a service? 

[hangontight]

58 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

What's his rate for caddying as a service? 

I don't know.  I think its more of an a la carte service for his clients.   His model is more of an annual fee consultant type arrangement, not really an hourly "lesson" guy.   I doubt he wants to spend a bunch of time doing $100 loops for random kids.  

[2bGood]

15 minutes ago, trilerian said:

 

Sometimes you just need to air a grievance.  I feel better about it today than I have all week, lol.  I think I am just going to move on and not say anything.  If she remembers and feels uncomfortable, well, not my problem.  I made an actual tee time tonight instead of just walking on, so there should be no confusion tonight.  And in the future that is what I will probably do on Friday nights. 

 

In seems to be somewhat in vogue for young kids 10-14 to hire on what almost becomes a person coach that does everything with them, 5-6 days a week of coach, travelling with them to all events and that includes caddying. These kids are national level players (and also dropping $50K-$60K on coaching per year). From what I have seen they train the kids to not think, and let the coach manage everything on and off course. 

 

I personally don't think it is right, but the short-term 'results' are good. I have not followed any of these kids long enough to see how it works out as they get older. 

 

[heavy_hitter]

1 hour ago, 2bGood said:

 

In seems to be somewhat in vogue for young kids 10-14 to hire on what almost becomes a person coach that does everything with them, 5-6 days a week of coach, travelling with them to all events and that includes caddying. These kids are national level players (and also dropping $50K-$60K on coaching per year). From what I have seen they train the kids to not think, and let the coach manage everything on and off course. 

 

I personally don't think it is right, but the short-term 'results' are good. I have not followed any of these kids long enough to see how it works out as they get older. 

 

Dang, I am around those a lot of upper tier players in Florida and in 8 years of doing this I have only encountered 2 of those.  

[MahalNeneng]

2 hours ago, 2bGood said:

 

In seems to be somewhat in vogue for young kids 10-14 to hire on what almost becomes a person coach that does everything with them, 5-6 days a week of coach, travelling with them to all events and that includes caddying. These kids are national level players (and also dropping $50K-$60K on coaching per year). From what I have seen they train the kids to not think, and let the coach manage everything on and off course. 

 

I personally don't think it is right, but the short-term 'results' are good. I have not followed any of these kids long enough to see how it works out as they get older. 

 

Well unless they are playing "national amateur events" AJGA, HJT, LJT dont allow caddies. Now we played the "city" championships and caddies were allow, events like the Western Open they were allowed but junior golf tournaments for the most part caddies cease to be a thing at like mmmmm 11?

[kekoa]

6 hours ago, hangontight said:

I don't know.  I think its more of an a la carte service for his clients.   His model is more of an annual fee consultant type arrangement, not really an hourly "lesson" guy.   I doubt he wants to spend a bunch of time doing $100 loops for random kids.  

I've heard of a few instructors caddying for their student.  The rate is simple.  Basically multiply the hourly rate by 4 or 5.  Not cheap by any means especially for those guys charging $200+/hr. 

 

We hired a caddy in pinehurst this year and I paid him $150/day.  Overall it was a good experience, but not all caddies are created equal.  You never know who you are going to get out of the 150 plus guys in the system.

[heavy_hitter]

30 minutes ago, kekoa said:

I've heard of a few instructors caddying for their student.  The rate is simple.  Basically multiply the hourly rate by 4 or 5.  Not cheap by any means especially for those guys charging $200+/hr. 

 

We hired a caddy in pinehurst this year and I paid him $150/day.  Overall it was a good experience, but not all caddies are created equal.  You never know who you are going to get out of the 150 plus guys in the system.

Truth

 

Hired a caddie for my daughter several years ago for the US Girl's Junior at Ridgewood.  She had a good caddie and was worth several strokes on the greens.  He would point to a spot and tell her to hit it at such and such pace.  She just stopped reading them and listened.  She putted very well.  Then you get other guys that pick up your quarter when you mark the ball.

[leezer99]

13 hours ago, kekoa said:

I've heard of a few instructors caddying for their student.  The rate is simple.  Basically multiply the hourly rate by 4 or 5.  Not cheap by any means especially for those guys charging $200+/hr. 

 

We hired a caddy in pinehurst this year and I paid him $150/day.  Overall it was a good experience, but not all caddies are created equal.  You never know who you are going to get out of the 150 plus guys in the system.

So $500 to $1,000 per day? That's nuts.

[2bGood]

21 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

Dang, I am around those a lot of upper tier players in Florida and in 8 years of doing this I have only encountered 2 of those.  

Where they the winners? 😉

 

I have you played in the US-Kids World championship? 

 

Again I don't like it, but it is a thing. 

Edited August 20, 2022 by 2bGood

[leezer99]

Would you consider hiring a PGA Tour level professional caddie for the amateur level majors? I’m thinking US Jr Am, US Am or whatever world championship you’re playing in?

[JKgolfer]

It all depends on the coach/caddie relationship with the player.  As the dad/caddie I feel like its a bit of an advantage because my daughter wants me to caddie for her and I know how she's feeling that day and try to just get her in the best position to play that day.  I agree its not the time for a coach to fix anything, just give the right amount of help to get the player to give his or her best and make the best out of the round.

[heavy_hitter]

On 8/20/2022 at 9:53 AM, 2bGood said:

Where they the winners? 😉

 

I have you played in the US-Kids World championship? 

 

Again I don't like it, but it is a thing. 

yep...  winners

 

and yep, have been to the USKG World's.  Yes there is some eccentric behaviors going on at the World Championships.  Most of those get weeded out before High School

[DavePelz4]

On 8/20/2022 at 9:10 AM, leezer99 said:

Would you consider hiring a PGA Tour level professional caddie for the amateur level majors? I’m thinking US Jr Am, US Am or whatever world championship you’re playing in?

 

With all his free time now, Phil could be a caddie for up and coming AMs.  He'd teach them a lot...and maybe something about golf, too.

[2bGood]

22 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

yep...  winners

 

and yep, have been to the USKG World's.  Yes there is some eccentric behaviors going on at the World Championships.  Most of those get weeded out before High School

Time will tell. I am the guy, that tends to think how well your golf career goes when you are 12 has zero to do with how well it will go when it matters. All the same plenty of folks are willing to pay coaches ridiculous amounts of money to make their 10 year old- 'world class'. 

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by 2bGood

[heavy_hitter]

16 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Time will tell. I am the guy, that tends to think how well you golf career goes with you 12 has zero to do with how well it will go when it matters. All the same plenty of folks willing to pay coaches ridiculous amounts of money to make there 10 year - world class. 

 

agreed

[leezer99]

17 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Time will tell. I am the guy, that tends to think how well your golf career goes when you are 12 has zero to do with how well it will go when it matters. All the same plenty of folks are willing to pay coaches ridiculous amounts of money to make their 10 year old- 'world class'. 

 

 

This is what we are counting on.

[2bGood]

11 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

 

This is what we are counting on.

Yes, I know a few pro's that have found this is a great way to make a decent living. I don't begrudge them that. This  high frequency coaching happens in other sports at this age, why shouldn't golf get in the mix?

[darter79]

My daughter's coach has been on the bag a few times for local events. Mainly to see how she plays at tournaments vs what she sees at lessons.  That was when she was a lot younger too. It does help if not on the bag for them to even be there to see their decisions the type of shots they are trying to play ect. That said Mine is nicer than most on the rates listed above I will say that. I don't think it hurts at a local event I wouldn't do it for worlds or a big event. 

[Bizzle80]

I've been talking with another dad about swapping bags and caddying for each others kids. Take away some of the emotional baggage when carrying for your own...

[kekoa]

2 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

This is what we are counting on.

Same 🙂

[heavy_hitter]

4 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Yes, I know a few pro's that have found this is a great way to make a decent living. I don't begrudge them that. This  high frequency coaching happens in other sports at this age, why shouldn't golf get in the mix?

In all seriousness, the dad's of little girl's are the worst.  Not all, but I would guess 25%.  The worst female dad's I have encountered are in Ohio.  We have some doozies in Florida as well.

[leezer99]

1 minute ago, heavy_hitter said:

In all seriousness, the dad's of little girl's are the worst.  Not all, but I would guess 25%.  The worst female dad's I have encountered are in Ohio.  We have some doozies in Florida as well.

Most of those dads don’t even know how to take a proper drop.