At the turn

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, Colin L said:

I've often thought it would be good to have a halfway house on my course, having enjoyed them occasionally when refereeing elsewhere, but after reading this I'm not so sure we're not better off just carrying a halfway snack in our bags. 🙂  

 

That certainly is the Scottish way of looking at it 😎

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Wham49 said:

in this situation, maybe if you had to wait on the tee box for a while the group ahead of you on their break knew this, and were waiting to hit for the tee to clear. but if you are a single and are wanting to move quickly through they still should have let you go 

 Why? If there are no empty holes in front I do not see any reason.

[NPSpar4]

if somebody goes to the clubhouse, and you walk up to the 10th tee and the fairway is clear, i would HIT and go on my merry way.  If i am a single, and the 4some goes inside , i am HITTING IF THEY ARENT THERE.   

If you are at a private club, then that is a different set of expectations.  I would wait for the 4some, or go inside and look for them...but if you are at a public course, then it's more than fair to tee it up and let it rip.

Now, if you get up to the 10th tee and still have to sit there and wait for the group ahead to clear, then it becomes a matter of timing.   If you waiting there and then the fairway clears, you can go ahead and hit...BUT if the group gets anywhere up to that tee box before you hit and leave and get down to the fairway, then you LOSE.   if they show up and you still within shouting distance, then you get your Word not allowed behind that group....or you calmly request to play ahead.     

If i made the turn, saw the 4some missing and the fairway on 10 clears, im teeing off.....if i hit and get out to my ball without seeing that 4some.. then they LOST their spot...period.  

but then again, i'm in Jersey so i have seen plenty of arguments/"fights" on the course.   

[Dpavs]

The two questions here for me are-

 

Was the course that backed up that day on most\every hole so that groups were often waiting 5 minutes or more to play?

Why was the 10th tee so backed up if the others weren't?

 

That said... if the tee is clear we always go regardless of what happened to any group that was in front of us. On the other hand if the group that was in front shows up before the tee clears then they maintain their place in line. There have been several occasions I have experienced where groups will stop at the clubhouse when they otherwise might not have simply because they can see how backed up the turn is.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Dpavs

[Wham49]

41 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 Why? If there are no empty holes in front I do not see any reason.

I understand if the whole course is full in front of you, and they have nowhere to go, but if there is only a couple groups in front or if you dont know I usually let them go through, then they can go through the other groups in front, I know I am very liberal about letting people go through becasue I would hope that if I am in a hurry and want to move and I am stuck behind a couple groups that are full they would let me move through too.

[david.c.w]

Seems like we are now have 2 ettiquite questions, and I am about to add a 3rd....

 

OP's original question:

• Sounds like OP was on 10 tee and waiting for the fairway to clear.
• Foursome in front of him likely knows there is a slight delay at the turn and got a snack, a drink, or took a leak.
• Foursome shows up on 10 tee at the "right time", and is ready to play and keeping pace with group in front.  
• OP went ahead anyway, essentially cutting in front of the foursome who likely did not do anything wrong
• OP is wrong

Singles status

• If the course is full and everyone is keeping pace, singles should not be allowed to play through.
• If there is space in front of us, and a single is waiting, let them play though while you are still playing the hole.
• Singles should not expect to show up to a full course and expect every other group to let then though because they are faster. 

Halfway house ettiquite

• If you stop and get a snack/lunch/drink, make sure it is either pre-made or can be made fast.
• 2 beers or sports drink from the fridge?  YES
• You like red Powerade Zero but they are out and the 1 person working there has to go to cold storage to get you one?  NO, get the green or blue one.  Deal with it
• Hot dog?  YES
• Cup of soup or chicken salad?  YES
• Pre-made grilled chicken caesar wrap?  YES
• Pack of crackers?  YES
• 1 club sandwich on wheat toasted, 1 ham and swiss on rye, 1 hot pastrami, and 1 cuban panini?  NO, NO, NO, NO!

Edited October 10, 2022 by david.c.w
spelling

[bladehunter]

On 10/8/2022 at 11:48 PM, rogolf said:

Imo, if they went to the clubhouse and left the 1oth tee open with the fairway open,you're free to carry on in front of them.  They left the queue - didn't "buy" a place on the golf course.

Agree 100 %.  Go to the bar. Cool. I’m going from 9 green to 10 tee.  See ya later. 

[Abh159]

 

On 10/8/2022 at 10:51 PM, Thereisnospoon said:

I told him that if he had just been polite and said excuse me sir, I would have gladly said take the tee.   I just teed off and ignore his ranting...

 

So even though you knew you were in the wrong you went ahead and teed off in front of them anyway? C'mon man...

 

Sure, the guy probably went a little overboard (based on your version of events), but if the situation was reversed and a foursome jumped in front of you without saying a word to you I bet you'd be pretty pissed too.

 

Edited October 10, 2022 by Abh159

[dvq9654]

Before I answer this question, I am going to lay out the facts as I understand them to make clear why I'm answering the way I am. I could have the facts wrong because OP's posts aren't entirely clear. 

 

- OP finished hole 9 and proceeds to hole 10 

- Upon arriving at hole 10, he does not see anyone on the tee 

- Due to the nature of hole 9 and the location of the clubhouse, OP is not sure of what happened to the group in front of him

- OP does not have a good enough knowledge of the group in front of him to determine whether he is waiting on the group originally in front of him or the group two groups in front of him

- OP waits for the fairway to clear, but before doing so the original group in front of him arrives and accuses him of jumping in front of them 

- OP and at least one person from the group in front of him exchange words and OP is accused of cutting in front 

- OP tee's off in front of the group that was originally in front of him despite their protest (apparently because of the rudeness of the other group)

 

Now that that's out of the way, here is my take. OP did nothing wrong initially. If he truly did not know where the group in front of him was, he did not make any mistake by assuming the tee initially. What else is he supposed to do at that stage other than wait on the tee? 

 

The issue in my mind comes when the man comes and confronts him. At that point, it is clear the group in front of him did not tee off, so they should have the right of way, assuming they were ready to go. OP should have waited until they clear to tee off. OP does not get to go in front because he made it to the tee box before them. The group in front also should not have been upset or confronted OP, because OP had done nothing wrong. 

 

All that said, if the group was not there, and the tee / fairway was clear then OP should be free to tee off. 

 

[NPSpar4]

3 hours ago, david.c.w said:

Seems like we are now have 2 ettiquite questions, and I am about to add a 3rd....

 

OP's original question:

• Sounds like OP was on 10 tee and waiting for the fairway to clear.
• Foursome in front of him likely knows there is a slight delay at the turn and got a snack, a drink, or took a leak.
• Foursome shows up on 10 tee at the "right time", and is ready to play and keeping pace with group in front.  
• OP went ahead anyway, essentially cutting in front of the foursome who likely did not do anything wrong
• OP is wrong

Singles status

• If the course is full and everyone is keeping pace, singles should not be allowed to play through.
• If there is space in front of us, and a single is waiting, let them play though while you are still playing the hole.
• Singles should not expect to show up to a full course and expect every other group to let then though because they are faster. 

Halfway house ettiquite

• If you stop and get a snack/lunch/drink, make sure it is either pre-made or can be made fast.
• 2 beers or sports drink from the fridge?  YES
• You like red Powerade Zero but they are out and the 1 person working there has to go to cold storage to get you one?  NO, get the green or blue one.  Deal with it
• Hot dog?  YES
• Cup of soup or chicken salad?  YES
• Pre-made grilled chicken caesar wrap?  YES
• Pack of crackers?  YES
• 1 club sandwich on wheat toasted, 1 ham and swiss on rye, 1 hot pastrami, and 1 cuban panini?  NO, NO, NO, NO!

I agree 100% on all of this.  Lol.  

[T_Golf_23]

We really need the OP to hop on here and provide more color. So many in answered situational questions. 

[StudentGolfer4]

On 10/9/2022 at 3:21 AM, bcjim said:

Our course has a sign posted indicating that taking excessive time at the turn may result in losing your place on 10.

 

 

Does a sign like this actually help? Do members have the same idea of what excessive time means? I could see the group behind arguing they took excessive time and trying to play through while the group inside would claim it was not at all excessive, the bar staff was slow, had to use the restroom, etc. 

[Colin L]

17 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

That certainly is the Scottish way of looking at it 😎

I guess it was a mistake using the expression "better off" but I will store that gratuitous insult away and await an opportunity for revenge. 😡😃

 

I would admit that if there was a halfway house offering smorgasbord as good as your neighbours* can do (and perhaps yourselves?), I would happily stop off after 9 holes for a "snack".  Indeed, if there was some good ale to go with it, I'd probably not bother about finding a slot on the 10th tee for the inward half.  

 

*Edit:  I am referring, of course, to your nice neighbours to the west.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Colin L

[Newby]

Except on organised social days when a full sit down facility is available/compulsory(?) we only have a HWH on 3 days mid week for quick 'take-away' snacks and drinks.  There is a notice at the HWH telling players that they must leave before players on the 9th cross the stream about 100 yards from the green.

[Pastit]

4 hours ago, StudentGolfer4 said:

Does a sign like this actually help? Do members have the same idea of what excessive time means? I could see the group behind arguing they took excessive time and trying to play through while the group inside would claim it was not at all excessive, the bar staff was slow, had to use the restroom, etc. 

 

Where I play, those taking a break at the halfway house are expected to move on when those behind approach the house after clearing the adjacent green.

 

If the “ resident “ party wish to dally, they’re expected to invite the match behind to go through. 

[Mr. Bean]

3 hours ago, Colin L said:

I guess it was a mistake using the expression "better off" but I will store that gratuitous insult away and await an opportunity for revenge. 😡😃

 

I would admit that if there was a halfway house offering smorgasbord as good as your neighbours* can do (and perhaps yourselves?), I would happily stop off after 9 holes for a "snack".  Indeed, if there was some good ale to go with it, I'd probably not bother about finding a slot on the 10th tee for the inward half.  

 

*Edit:  I am referring, of course, to your nice neighbours to the west.

 

Denmark is not quite a neighbour to us but close enough. And yes, their smørrebrøds are to die for. (Swedish smörgåsbord is a pale copy of that of the Danish...)

[Thereisnospoon]

Ok thanks for the responses.  

 

My wait at the 10th tee was because the 4some in front of me had a guy duff to about 290 from me for his 2nd shot.  I had to wait for him just in case.  

 

Otherwise they moved along.  I hit my ball to the 150 marker after the interaction.   I walked to my ball hoping the guy behind me wasn't going to hit and then I waited a minute for the green to clear.  I say Guy because his 4some still hadn't arrived from wherever they were.  Again I had no idea where they went.  Maybe they played 9?  Maybe they took lunch.  I saw the tee empty.  No sign of carts waiting in que.  The guy also had two beers in his hand and appeared to be slurring.  I'm a member at this semi public and have been playing there 15 years.  He was 35 at best.  I'm 50 and I play there 40 times a year and some with clients.  He threatened to call the clubhouse I encouraged him too.  He said...they know me here.  I didn't respond.  That's when I decided to move on and tee off.    He said nice drive and something else snarky.

 

 

I finished the 10th hole and walked up to the next tee where the next 4some just hit their last.  I politely asked if I could play with them on this hole and I would be gone in under 5 minutes.   They were young and said Sure!  I told them briefly about the guy behind me and I said I wanted to get past them to avoid any more issues.   They were cool.  I hit a par 3 bunker. Blasted out and sank a 10 ft putt before they were even at their balls.   They all cheered when It fell.  I yelled I would leave 2 drink tabs for them at the bar.   Which I did.  Actually gave it to them in the parking lot at the end of the round.  

 

I was off at the next hole in a minute and gone.. 3 holes later I encountered the GUY in my fairway ...he had sliced.  I was lying about 220 out on a par5 and saw him walking towards my line.  I stopped to be clear of his line and began cleaning my irons.  He said...sorry for being on your hole.  I said it's fine ...take your time.  

 

I still haven't gone to the pro shop since that day.   I imagine he called about me.  I'll find out soon.  He had completely changed his demeanor. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thereisnospoon]

23 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

 

So even though you knew you were in the wrong you went ahead and teed off in front of them anyway? C'mon man...

 

Sure, the guy probably went a little overboard (based on your version of events), but if the situation was reversed and a foursome jumped in front of you without saying a word to you I bet you'd be pretty pissed too.

 

If I were in a 4some and a single jumped me NBD.  Especially a walker.  If it's a 3some or more.  I might have said something.   I wouldn't allow my 4some to abandon the turn and the tee.  I bring my food.  If I'm with clients?  Idc...I'm working and it could take 6 hours.  So I would wait 

 

 

[Thereisnospoon]

23 hours ago, NPSpar4 said:

I agree 100% on all of this.  Lol.  

I agree too.  It's just that they weren't all there when I hit.  They arrived when I turned around from the 150 marker.

[NPSpar4]

1 minute ago, Thereisnospoon said:

I agree too.  It's just that they weren't all there when I hit.  They arrived when I turned around from the 150 marker.

So you were already in the fairway before you saw the 4some that u skipped?   If thats the case, then screw them

[Thereisnospoon]

2 minutes ago, NPSpar4 said:

So you were already in the fairway before you saw the 4some that u skipped?   If thats the case, then screw them

Yes I hit my ball and started walking.  It was a little unnerving and hit a low stinger in the middle.  I'm a fast walker so I just wanted separation.. maybe it took 2 minutes from tee box.  I turned around and saw a 2nd cart pulling up.  The first cart had only ONE guy.  So guy 2 had to still walk from the pro shop 250 feet

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by Thereisnospoon
M

[Abh159]

14 minutes ago, Thereisnospoon said:

If I were in a 4some and a single jumped me NBD.  Especially a walker.  If it's a 3some or more.  I might have said something.   I wouldn't allow my 4some to abandon the turn and the tee.  I bring my food.  If I'm with clients?  Idc...I'm working and it could take 6 hours.  So I would wait 

 

You posted asking if your actions were appropriate. A fair amount of people responded and said, although the guy may have gone a bit over the top with confronting you, you still shouldn't have assumed you could just tee off when you arrived at the box. Even with those comments you still seem convinced you didn't do anything wrong.

 

I guess you're definition of "abandoning the turn and tee" is much different than mine. You stated in your original post that the guy arrived at the tee within 5 minutes. I would hardly call that abandoning the tee. 5 minutes is an appropriate amount of time to grab a drink/snack and use the bathroom while making the turn.

 

Also, it's great that you bring your own food, but it's not realistic to expect everyone else to do the same. Grabbing something at the turn is more than acceptable. 

[golfortennis]

On 10/10/2022 at 10:47 AM, North Butte said:

That whole "singles have no status on the course" guff was removed from the USGA's etiquette guidance a decade or two ago, by the way. Which was good because it was idiotic to start with. A single has exactly the same "status" as anyone else who paid his green fee, no more or no less. Etiquette, consideration and courtesy are the same whether it's one walker, four drunks in carts or a traveling tour group who arrived at the course in a bus. 

 

It was worse than that.  Singles were supposed to give way to a "match".  As you say, how many groups were playing an actual match?  

[david.c.w]

Sounds to me like both OP and the group were not necessarily on their best behavior.   

 

Seems like OP accidentally jumped the group in front of him, and when confronted, basically said "Too bad, I am going anyway".   Both sides could have handled it better.  

[mshills]

21 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

Sounds to me like both OP and the group were not necessarily on their best behavior.   

 

Seems like OP accidentally jumped the group in front of him, and when confronted, basically said "Too bad, I am going anyway".   Both sides could have handled it better.  

Also…It should come as a shock to no one that alcohol was involved. OP indicated the group that stopped was getting funked up — always an awesome bunch to play behind — so though the #10 interaction maybe could have been better, sounds like OP wound up all right. 

Edited October 11, 2022 by mshills

[Thereisnospoon]

Maybe I should have let him tee off yes, after another few minutes for his mates to arrive.   

 

 

Other than that am I supposed to go looking for them or be prepared to play?

 

 

I was always taught that my position on the course is behind the group ahead and ready to play.

 

[rd1959]

"The guy had two beers in is hand and appeared to be slurring". There's the problem. The guy shouldn't have said anything. Hell, the other people in his group hadn't even showed up. You did nothing wrong.
 

Question for all: If you're standing in a line for whatever reason, what happens when you decide to get out of the line and then come back in, say 10 minutes. Do you go back to where you would have been if you stayed in line? No, you go to the end of the line. Why is golf the only place where a group can delay anybody behind them just because they decided to stop and take a break?

[david.c.w]

56 minutes ago, rd1959 said:

"The guy had two beers in is hand and appeared to be slurring". There's the problem. The guy shouldn't have said anything. Hell, the other people in his group hadn't even showed up. You did nothing wrong.
 

Question for all: If you're standing in a line for whatever reason, what happens when you decide to get out of the line and then come back in, say 10 minutes. Do you go back to where you would have been if you stayed in line? No, you go to the end of the line. Why is golf the only place where a group can delay anybody behind them just because they decided to stop and take a break?

 

The halfway house is generally part of the flow of the day.   Going to the bathroom or to get a drink at the turn is part of the deal.  That is why they call it the HALFWAY HOUSE, not the start house or the end house.  I agree if you spend 20 minutes there, you lose your place.  In this situation the single is fast probably passed them while guy #3 was in the bathroom.  He was just faster.  It does not mean he get priority, especially since the supposed delay was a minute or so.   It sounds like from the description the group was about 90 seconds late.  This is not a delay. This is not "out of position" to be jumped or have a marshal up your butt.  If the group was generally keeping position with the group in front, then the single jumped, and now the group has to wait on the single.

 

Everyone here is taking each side to the extreme.  Again, this sounds like a case of bad timing and had OP spent 2 more minutes on the 9th, or wanted a hot dog, or had to go to the bathroom, the group would have been on the tee, playing their shot just a minute behind schedule.  Could the group just said, "yeah man, go ahead"?  Of course.  Could OP have said, "Oh, my bad.  Did not see you guys"?  Absolutely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thereisnospoon]

30 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

The halfway house is generally part of the flow of the day.   Going to the bathroom or to get a drink at the turn is part of the deal.  That is why they call it the HALFWAY HOUSE, not the start house or the end house.  I agree if you spend 20 minutes there, you lose your place.  In this situation the single is fast probably passed them while guy #3 was in the bathroom.  He was just faster.  It does not mean he get priority, especially since the supposed delay was a minute or so.   It sounds like from the description the group was about 90 seconds late.  This is not a delay. This is not "out of position" to be jumped or have a marshal up your butt.  If the group was generally keeping position with the group in front, then the single jumped, and now the group has to wait on the single.

 

Everyone here is taking each side to the extreme.  Again, this sounds like a case of bad timing and had OP spent 2 more minutes on the 9th, or wanted a hot dog, or had to go to the bathroom, the group would have been on the tee, playing their shot just a minute behind schedule.  Could the group just said, "yeah man, go ahead"?  Of course.  Could OP have said, "Oh, my bad.  Did not see you guys"?  Absolutely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yea that makes sense.   The guy went off on me, and wouldn't listen to my explanation.   His state was evident.   The fact that one cant see above a hill in front of you to determine their direction from the green as i sat on 9th fairway was not registering with him as to why i thought they had left after 9....and I waited a good while for a guy 290 out into the fairway.    Had I just hit a 3i immediately upon hitting the tee I would have been long gone,   When the 1st of their 4some arrived.  

[rd1959]

38 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

The halfway house is generally part of the flow of the day.   Going to the bathroom or to get a drink at the turn is part of the deal.  That is why they call it the HALFWAY HOUSE, not the start house or the end house.  I agree if you spend 20 minutes there, you lose your place.  In this situation the single is fast probably passed them while guy #3 was in the bathroom.  He was just faster.  It does not mean he get priority, especially since the supposed delay was a minute or so.   It sounds like from the description the group was about 90 seconds late.  This is not a delay. This is not "out of position" to be jumped or have a marshal up your butt.  If the group was generally keeping position with the group in front, then the single jumped, and now the group has to wait on the single.

 

Everyone here is taking each side to the extreme.  Again, this sounds like a case of bad timing and had OP spent 2 more minutes on the 9th, or wanted a hot dog, or had to go to the bathroom, the group would have been on the tee, playing their shot just a minute behind schedule.  Could the group just said, "yeah man, go ahead"?  Of course.  Could OP have said, "Oh, my bad.  Did not see you guys"?  Absolutely.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The halfway house is generally part of the flow of the day". Not for some. I'm one of those cheapskates that bring snacks and fluids with me so I don't stop. If I get to the next tee and nobody is within sight then I'm going to keep going.

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by rd1959