At the turn

[Thereisnospoon]

This incident aside.   What is proper protocol?  If a 4some took 15-20 minutes in the clubhouse do they lose their place?  It seems to be a valid argument for being leapfrogged otherwise the whole course gets affected.

 

 

[rogolf]

11 minutes ago, Thereisnospoon said:

This incident aside.   What is proper protocol?  If a 4some took 15-20 minutes in the clubhouse do they lose their place?  It seems to be a valid argument for being leapfrogged otherwise the whole course gets affected.

 

 

Imo, that group, by stopping in the clubhouse for that length of time, has lost their position on the course. Following groups can continue to play through, and the group returning from the clubhouse must wait for an opening in order to resume their round.

If the club establishes this as a policy, there won't be many long visits to the clubhouse!

Edited October 11, 2022 by rogolf

[jomatty]

On 10/9/2022 at 2:08 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

At my club it is customary to take a short break at the turn, especially if you cannot tee off from the 10 due to the group in front of you. Leaving the scene to take that break does not mean you lose your place in the queue. It is also customary to know by looks who are in the group in front of you (and behind) so you do know where you "belong" in the queue. Once you arrive at the turn and see an unrecognized group teeing off at the 10th or playing that hole you may assume that the group in front of you is taking a break. Should you wish to play through it is up to you to find that group and ask for permission. Stepping in is somewhat rude and not recommended.

 

Should the entire 10th hole be free I would be very tempted to tee off and most likely would as taking a break does not mean undue delay but keeping the queue unbroken. But if I need to wait to tee off then I would wait until the entire hole is free or the group in front of me came to take its place.

 

Then again, at my club taking a break has been made very handy as there is a halfway house very close to both of the 10th tees (we have two courses) and you can see both tees from the house (tees are less than 70 meters apart).

 

 

Is it assumed that everyone is playing 18 holes?  You really have to go find a group in the clubhouse to inquire if they are playing 9 or 18?  Personally I would just go wait by the tee and if the group showed up before the fairway was clear I would let them go, and if the fairway cleared I would tee off…

[NPSpar4]

6 minutes ago, jomatty said:

Is it assumed that everyone is playing 18 holes?  You really have to go find a group in the clubhouse to inquire if they are playing 9 or 18?  Personally I would just go wait by the tee and if the group showed up before the fairway was clear I would let them go, and if the fairway cleared I would tee off…

Exactly….👍🏻

[david.c.w]

48 minutes ago, Thereisnospoon said:

This incident aside.   What is proper protocol?  If a 4some took 15-20 minutes in the clubhouse do they lose their place?  It seems to be a valid argument for being leapfrogged otherwise the whole course gets affected.

 

 

 

I agree with @rogolf.  20 minutes is too long.  But 5 minutes is fine.  Like anything else, much of this comes down to common sense and situational awareness.

 

Read the room.   Understand what day and what time it is.  Saturday morning or Tuesday at 2:00?  Who are your partners?  3 scratch or a bunch of hackers?   How is the weather?  About to rain or best day of the year? How is pace of play?  Are you way ahead or way behind?  Are you playing a goat track or a premium daily fee?

 

There is no perfect answer as it depends on factors all around the course.  That is why lots of places have a sign that says "undue delay at the grill may cause you to lose your position".  Vague and general and not "5 minutes max ot leave!!!".

 

Not huge country fan but do like this one.   Can't we all just get along?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2022 by david.c.w

[Schulzmc]

Generally, the group coming off the 9th hole has the right to the 10th tee. If they are taking too long to hit the restroom and grab a drink/food, then go ahead and ask if you can play through. But at our club, just as you would not jump from a fairway to the next tee while they are on the green, you would never go to the 10th tee without asking. 

[rd1959]

3 minutes ago, Schulzmc said:

Generally, the group coming off the 9th hole has the right to the 10th tee. If they are taking too long to hit the restroom and grab a drink/food, then go ahead and ask if you can play through. But at our club, just as you would not jump from a fairway to the next tee while they are on the green, you would never go to the 10th tee without asking. 

Suppose that group is nowhere in sight. Are you obligated to waste time searching for them to ask? Like the OP said, he waited on the tee about 5 minutes for the fairway to clear in front of him, then 1 member of that group appeared. The rest didn't show up until he had already hit his drive and he was in the fairway. IMO, there was no reason for the "guy" to give him a hard time. The OP was gone before they were even ready to play. The inebriated guy acted like the course was his "turf". 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

OP, I’ve been in your position a handful of times this year. I’ll be honest, and if I come of rude. I’m really not sorry. But I shouldn’t have to wait for the group in front of me at the turn. Once I finish hole 9. And I don’t see the group in front of me on hole 10.  I’ll wait as long as 5-10 minutes. After that, I’m teeing off. I think it’s rude that everybody has to wait just so you can sit down and eat your hotdog and use the bathroom. 

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

2 hours ago, Schulzmc said:

Generally, the group coming off the 9th hole has the right to the 10th tee. If they are taking too long to hit the restroom and grab a drink/food, then go ahead and ask if you can play through. But at our club, just as you would not jump from a fairway to the next tee while they are on the green, you would never go to the 10th tee without asking. 

No way I or anyone should have to stop and ask. A lot of my local courses have a phone number and menu to place orders. Whether it’s on a sign next to the tee box of the 9th hole. Or on the GPS screen if the carts have it. And I’m sure other courses in other states have done the same. No reason or excuses for making others wait on you for 20+ minutes. At that point, now you’ve just caused the course to fall behind all because of a hot dog or hamburger and a visit to the bathroom. It’s very frustrating cause I’ve had to go through this same exact situation so many times this year. 

[Mr. Bean]

4 hours ago, jomatty said:

Is it assumed that everyone is playing 18 holes?  You really have to go find a group in the clubhouse to inquire if they are playing 9 or 18?  Personally I would just go wait by the tee and if the group showed up before the fairway was clear I would let them go, and if the fairway cleared I would tee off…

 

That is one way of doing it, no problem. But I was not talking about the clubhouse but the halfway house. People are outside having their break and you can see them all with one glance even from the 10th tees. Besides, 99% of people go and fill their water bottles, visit the toilet or buy something from the halfway house so you are deemed to see the group in front of you if they are still there.

 

Oh, one more thing. You can see if the group is going to finish after 9 holes as they shake each others' hands on the 9th green... 😉

Edited October 12, 2022 by Mr. Bean

[Greenie]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:57 PM, Schulzmc said:

Generally, the group coming off the 9th hole has the right to the 10th tee. If they are taking too long to hit the restroom and grab a drink/food, then go ahead and ask if you can play through. But at our club, just as you would not jump from a fairway to the next tee while they are on the green, you would never go to the 10th tee without asking. 

I never understood this. Your group disappears into the clubhouse and I am suppose to follow you into the clubhouse and ask if I can play though?. I'm not going to do that and I don't feel I should have to. I'm heading on to ten. If I or my group are waiting to tee off on ten and you show up I will certainly back away and let you maintain your position. If the course is open we tee off.

 

We recently had a issue with a group of four women playing in front of us. We watched them leave nine and go upstairs into the clubhouse so we went on to ten. There was a whole hole open in front of them so we really wanted to play through anyway and were going to ask them at the turn. This course has bathrooms  and a snack shack ground level to keep things moving at the turn. These women went upstairs and into the main clubhouse. At that point we figured we would just head on over to ten. All four of us had teed off and as we were pulling away the women were coming and yelling at us. They certainly felt we should have followed then into the clubhouse and asked if we could play through. We felt if they weren't going to use the restrooms or snack shack to keep play moving they were probably not concerned if we played through.

 

We usually don't stop at the turn but we might if the course is playing slow and we know we have a few minutes to stop and still get over to ten without losing any spacing between groups. We did this exact thing a few weeks back. The course was slow so we went in the clubhouse. When we came back out the group in front of us was still on the tee. The group that was behind us was sitting behind them. We pulled around them and one of the guys asked what we were doing. I said really? We were behind them.

Edited October 14, 2022 by Greenie

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, Greenie said:

I never understood this. Your group disappears into the clubhouse and I am suppose to follow you into the clubhouse and ask if I can play though?. I'm not going to do that and I don't feel I should have to. I'm heading on to ten. If I or my group are waiting to tee off on ten and you show up I will certainly back away and let you maintain your position. If the course is open we tee off.

 

I suppose it is just good manners to ask.

 

Equally you may tee off if the hole is empty, and just as in your case if the group comes to the tee before you have gone forward you may ask them then if you may play through. Equally polite, IMO.

 

FWIW, if the group disappearing in the clubhouse has fallen behind and you have been waiting they should invite you to play through in any case. Thus in such a situation I would not feel obligated to ask anything but just to play through.

[North Butte]

Nobody is under an obligation to search for a group that was ahead of you on the 9th hole but is nowhere to be seen when you get to the 10th tee. But I personally would let them "back in line" ahead of me if they show up to the 10th tee before I have hit my tee shot. Once I've teed off on the 10th, they can pound sand. 

[Golferpaul]

17 hours ago, Thereisnospoon said:

This incident aside.   What is proper protocol?  If a 4some took 15-20 minutes in the clubhouse do they lose their place?  It seems to be a valid argument for being leapfrogged otherwise the whole course gets affected.

 

 

It depends on the course rules.  Many will tell you that if you stop for food at the turn and get out of position, you may not be able to play the back nine (Breckenridge does this) because they are full.

 

At the other extreme, some courses require that you stop for lunch.  This is what happened when I played The Leopard in South Africa.  My caddie said we had to stop for a sit-down lunch, and we did just like all the other groups.

[rogolf]

6 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

It depends on the course rules.  Many will tell you that if you stop for food at the turn and get out of position, you may not be able to play the back nine (Breckenridge does this) because they are full.

 

At the other extreme, some courses require that you stop for lunch.  This is what happened when I played The Leopard in South Africa.  My caddie said we had to stop for a sit-down lunch, and we did just like all the other groups.

That also occurs in Japan, and each group has both a front nine and back nine tee time, so it is very orderly.

[1mcozik]

Yeah I’m with OP on this. If your “bro group” decide to go into the club house to flirt with the bartender and order a well done hamburger and hot dog, no way will I wait for them if I finish 9, get to 10 and nobody is on the tee.

[bcjim]

17 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

It depends on the course rules.  Many will tell you that if you stop for food at the turn and get out of position, you may not be able to play the back nine (Breckenridge does this) because they are full.

 

At the other extreme, some courses require that you stop for lunch.  This is what happened when I played The Leopard in South Africa.  My caddie said we had to stop for a sit-down lunch, and we did just like all the other groups.

Bizarre. What about 7am or 4pm tee times? Do they have to burn a half hour or more for a meal too?

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, bcjim said:

Bizarre. What about 7am or 4pm tee times? Do they have to burn a half hour or more for a meal too?

 

Not more bizarre than driving in a golf cart and blasting music all over the course. Personally I'd take that lunch concept any day instead of that music pest, sounds much more civilized to me.

[nsxguy]

On 10/11/2022 at 8:06 PM, david.c.w said:

Read the room.   Understand what day and what time it is.  Saturday morning or Tuesday at 2:00?  Who are your partners?  3 scratch or a bunch of hackers?   How is the weather?  About to rain or best day of the year? How is pace of play?  Are you way ahead or way behind?  Are you playing a goat track or a premium daily fee?

 

There is no perfect answer as it depends on factors all around the course.  That is why lots of places have a sign that says "undue delay at the grill may cause you to lose your position".  Vague and general and not "5 minutes max ot leave!!!".

 

Not huge country fan but do like this one.   Can't we all just get along?"

 

 

BOOM !!! 👍

 

On 10/12/2022 at 12:12 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

That is one way of doing it, no problem. But I was not talking about the clubhouse but the halfway house. People are outside having their break and you can see them all with one glance even from the 10th tees. Besides, 99% of people go and fill their water bottles, visit the toilet or buy something from the halfway house so you are deemed to see the group in front of you if they are still there.

 

Clubhouse, halfway house. What's in a name ?

 

I don't know about your part of the world but here in the U.S. I've seen all sorts of arrangements.

 

Only round of golf I've played on the continent was at St Andrews and it has the traditional(?) outward 9 and inward 9. The outward goes as far away from the clubhouse as possible and you don't see the clubhouse again until you're done on 18.

 

But on most courses I've played here in the States, each 9 comes back to the clubhouse, or very near to it, or a refreshment stand separate from the clubhouse. Also a rest room nearby.

 

Because of different arrangements of the buildings/stands/whatever, the group in front is usually, but not always, noticeable to the group behind.

 

And we've spent the better part of 2 HOURS following the group ahead. One should be able to spot their shirts, bags, whatever. Take a look for them,,,,,, if you can.

 

But david's got it. Read the "room".

[Golferpaul]

12 hours ago, bcjim said:

Bizarre. What about 7am or 4pm tee times? Do they have to burn a half hour or more for a meal too?

I don't know.  I only played the course one time and had a mid-morning tee time, so it worked out perfectly.  And yes, it was at least a half hour, probably more.  We ordered off a menu and the waiter brought our food.  Definitely not fast food.

 

 

[Golferpaul]

19 hours ago, 1mcozik said:

Yeah I’m with OP on this. If your “bro group” decide to go into the club house to flirt with the bartender and order a well done hamburger and hot dog, no way will I wait for them if I finish 9, get to 10 and nobody is on the tee.

But what if they order the hamburger medium rare?  Does that change anything?

[rogolf]

7 minutes ago, Golferpaul said:

I don't know.  I only played the course one time and had a mid-morning tee time, so it worked out perfectly.  And yes, it was at least a half hour, probably more.  We ordered off a menu and the waiter brought our food.  Definitely not fast food.

 

 

In Japan, the restaurant staff know the group's tee time for the second nine and make sure orders are taken and delivered such that the group will be ready for their tee time.

[Mr. Bean]

8 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Clubhouse, halfway house. What's in a name ?

 

 

I was merely explaining the setup at my home club, nothing more.

 

And there is a big difference between a clubhouse and a halfway house. The former is a largish building with a restaurant indoors and most often a terrace while the latter only has a terrace. thus you see ALL the people at the halfway house with one glance (except 1-2 in a toilet) while at the clubhouse there are so many people in so many different parts of the clubhouse that there is no way to see all of them with one glance.

 

And I agree with David, use your common sense.

[nsxguy]

11 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I was merely explaining the setup at my home club, nothing more.

 

And there is a big difference between a clubhouse and a halfway house. The former is a largish building with a restaurant indoors and most often a terrace while the latter only has a terrace. thus you see ALL the people at the halfway house with one glance (except 1-2 in a toilet) while at the clubhouse there are so many people in so many different parts of the clubhouse that there is no way to see all of them with one glance.

 

And I agree with David, use your common sense.

 

Understood, I was just suggesting the concept is the same; a place to do what needs to be done,,,,,,,, for a few minutes.

 

Personally I almost never go in for a beverage or a bite - I bring my own in a thermos or 2 and I never eat during the round.

 

I wait outside in the cart. The guys from my group may have to go inside but they're seldom in there for more than a couple of minutes. Group behind certainly hasn't caught up by the time we head for the 10th tee.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2022 by nsxguy

[bladehunter]

On 10/12/2022 at 6:56 AM, North Butte said:

Nobody is under an obligation to search for a group that was ahead of you on the 9th hole but is nowhere to be seen when you get to the 10th tee. But I personally would let them "back in line" ahead of me if they show up to the 10th tee before I have hit my tee shot. Once I've teed off on the 10th, they can pound sand. 

Yep. This is my approach.  If they ALL show up on the 10th before I’ve left, they can have the spot back. But none of this one guy hurrying up in a cart to  tell me to wait while his 3 compatriots wait for their hotdogs and turn in line at the urinal.  
 

I’d say part of this disagreement is clubhouse vs halfway house.  Usually a halfway house is tiny and people Are easily seen. But at least in the USA , a lot of older courses route so that the clubhouse is central to both 9s. When a group disappears into the clubhouse , it might be a 10 minute ordeal just to find them.  And these often are people you don’t know.     I don’t go in often unless it’s extremely slow . Because there isn’t time to get anything past a water and crackers. And my bag always has those in it anyway. 

[david.c.w]

12 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yep. This is my approach.  If they ALL show up on the 10th before I’ve left, they can have the spot back. But none of this one guy hurrying up in a cart to  tell me to wait while his 3 compatriots wait for their hotdogs and turn in line at the urinal.  
 

I’d say part of this disagreement is clubhouse vs halfway house.  Usually a halfway house is tiny and people Are easily seen. But at least in the USA , a lot of older courses route so that the clubhouse is central to both 9s. When a group disappears into the clubhouse , it might be a 10 minute ordeal just to find them.  And these often are people you don’t know.     I don’t go in often unless it’s extremely slow . Because there isn’t time to get anything past a water and crackers. And my bag always has those in it anyway. 

 

In OP's defense, and as others have mentioned, there are plenty of courses where the clubhouse grill is the halfway house.  This is often by the range or practice green or 1st tee, so there will be bags and carts and people all over the place, making it hard to know who is who.  

[golfortennis]

I have to say I really like how one course in our area has it setup.  You have to cross a road after the fifth hole(not real busy so not a hangup).  ON your way to the sixth tee, you pass the halfway house.  Coming off the 10th hole you walk past it again on the way to 11.  Coming off the 14th green, you pass it again to then cross the road back to the other side.  So with 3 opportunities, it also spreads out the stopping, whereas a number of courses everyone stops after 9.  

[nsxguy]

12 hours ago, golfortennis said:

I have to say I really like how one course in our area has it setup.  You have to cross a road after the fifth hole(not real busy so not a hangup).  ON your way to the sixth tee, you pass the halfway house.  Coming off the 10th hole you walk past it again on the way to 11.  Coming off the 14th green, you pass it again to then cross the road back to the other side.  So with 3 opportunities, it also spreads out the stopping, whereas a number of courses everyone stops after 9.  

 

LOL

 

You wouldn't be from Long Island, would you ?

 

That's exactly where one could get a beverage or hot dog at my home course.

[Augster]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:56 AM, North Butte said:

Nobody is under an obligation to search for a group that was ahead of you on the 9th hole but is nowhere to be seen when you get to the 10th tee. But I personally would let them "back in line" ahead of me if they show up to the 10th tee before I have hit my tee shot. Once I've teed off on the 10th, they can pound sand. 

This 100%.

 

Also, if you don’t know what a halfway house is, compared to a clubhouse, please try to play more courses. The halfway house is usually right there off the 9th green next to the 10th tee. You’d practically have to run into the group ahead. So not asking to play through is bad etiquette. 
 

If it’s a clubhouse, where the 9th green ends up back where you started, the clubhouse could be hundreds of yards away from the 9th green depending on the size of the course, how many 9’s, and the layout. I’m simply not walking 100 yards, each way, to search a clubhouse to ask if I can play through. If I get to 10 and it’s open, I’ll take a quick look to see if anyone is coming, then I’m teeing off and gone. 

[Schulzmc]

This thread is fascinating - as it reveals the very different “cultures” that can exist among clubs. At our club (private club, Chicago area) you would NEVER tee off on 10 without asking the group in front of you, no matter where they went. If you could not find them you would confirm with the pro shop they were only playing nine. All that would be quite easy to do, BTW, as the pro shop, locker room, and bar area are right on the way from 9 to 10 (it is a bit of a walk). 

 

But obviously all that is very different at other courses and in other places in the world. Some places you must stop for lunch. Other places if the tee is open, go for it. SO cool! I always learn a lot here. And it is a reminder how much golf is steeped in tradition.

Edited October 15, 2022 by Schulzmc