Best driver 2023 discussion thread: Expert fitters on 3 swing speed ranges + most forgiving!

[braincramp52]

On 2/24/2023 at 8:33 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 the Srixon this year is a better driver than the Ping or the Paradym.  These fitters aren't getting paid to push it.

For who? I wasn't impressed at all with the Srixon when I tested it. Guess it can't be the best driver then.

[Wayside]

On 2/24/2023 at 4:47 PM, heavy_hitter said:

Demo day at PGA show.  Tried them all and saw them all but Stealth 2+ which was what was eventually bagged

 

Let's not lie either.  I can be a bleep, but all of these heads are good.  What fits one person doesn't fit the other.  What works for one swing doesn't work for another.  Lastly, what one person is looking for may not be what another is looking for.

 

I think the terminology needs to change because the best driver for Adam Scott, isn't the best driver for Scheffler, isn't the best driver for Rahm, isn't the best driver for DJ.

You’ve just highlighted why it’s so difficult for anyone to put out a test like this.

 

You suggest that a Srixon is a better driver than a Ping or Paradym, but that opinion is based on your own subjective experience of trying them at the show. You then say that what works for one doesn’t work for another, or might not be what another is looking for. So, by your own logic, the Srixon isn't necessarily a better driver, it’s just a better driver for you. Even then, I’m pretty sure you could find a Ping or Paradym setup which will work as well as the Srixon. 
 

I agree with you about terminology though, as not all players in a bracket are looking for the same thing. But, again, how do you do it? I’ve had lots of customers who love these tests, and come in quoting them, so there is definitely a need and a place for them (from both sides) but I don’t envy anyone who has to sort out how. 

[buckeyefl]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:50 PM, Garydean said:

Is there data or these subjective results?

The data is "max profit for the fitter"

[buckeyefl]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:33 AM, heavy_hitter said:

Then why even have a best of?  Serious Question because a lot of these fitters get paid to push certain brands.  This really isn't a "Best Of".  Neither is the other site in my opinion.  To have a "best of" need to have raw data, not some opinions from some fitters.  Let's be truthful, the Srixon this year is a better driver than the Ping or the Paradym.  These fitters aren't getting paid to push it.

Winner winner chicken dinner

[iNeedMoreGolf]

The best is what ends up being played the most and what the ppl say is the best. You cant be like lebron and just scream out im the best lol let the ppl say it then youll know. Tiger or jordan never screamed hes the best just knew they was and let ppl decide. Arod kissed himself in mirror.. brady.. well.. im not sure what bradys doing lately.

[Ghostwedge]

1 hour ago, iNeedMoreGolf said:

The best is what ends up being played the most and what the ppl say is the best. You cant be like lebron and just scream out im the best lol let the ppl say it then youll know. Tiger or jordan never screamed hes the best just knew they was and let ppl decide. Arod kissed himself in mirror.. brady.. well.. im not sure what bradys doing lately.

You know what your saying is based on numbers right ? The advertising numbers of the big 5 OEM's dwarf say a Tour Edge golf yet their driver may produce better stats than a Paradym. So the Paradym outsells the TEE driver 100 - 1 the data says the TEE is just as good, the public buys the Paradym anyway.

Perception and reality often collide in the advertising world.

[iNeedMoreGolf]

4 hours ago, Ghostwedge said:

You know what your saying is based on numbers right ? The advertising numbers of the big 5 OEM's dwarf say a Tour Edge golf yet their driver may produce better stats than a Paradym. So the Paradym outsells the TEE driver 100 - 1 the data says the TEE is just as good, the public buys the Paradym anyway.

Perception and reality often collide in the advertising world.

Then TEE should shut down lol

[Cwing]

Interesting thread. In my view, there is no best but nearly all are very good.

[easyyy]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:58 AM, knudson81 said:

 

That is why we work with as many fitters as we do. We try and get as many voices as possible in order to outweigh some of the staff contracts and bias out there. And here is the problem with "raw data", what does that mean? How do you get the right data? Do you hit every driver on a robot? What swing speeds? What ball? Same shaft or stock shafts? Do you set the robot to hit draws, fades, or straight shots? Driver Loft? How many shots per driver? How can you hit those shots at the same time/day/weather? Normalize the shot data or not? What launch monitor do you use? Do you use real golfers? How many do you need at each handicap or swing speed? Do the testers get "fit" into each driver or just make swings with one head/shaft combo? How many shots before they get tired? And those are just some of the issues we have discussed at length, internally over the years as this list has evolved. 

 

And that is why we feel partnering with the best fitters around the country makes the most sense. We get to pick the brains of these fitters who do this everyday and see a wide variety of golfers at every swing speed and handicap test these clubs. We will never claim it is perfect and we are always open to thoughts and ideas for improvement. 

 

I have seen this evolve over the years. I have written long form replies about this over the years. At the end of the day simply put... I look at this as the best we can offer at this point. 

 

I will take the opinions of 28 of the best fitters in the business who fit players all day with all the options available. I would rather that than 20 to 30 golf geeks on the range for a blister fest weekend. "I like that this one!" Yeah.... solid. 🤡

 

Every year I would drive up to Miles of Golf and also Carls Golfland since they were both local. I knew the staff back then at both places. I would beeline straight to the fitter I trusted the most to be neutral. I would ask him... "what is going on this year?" What is hot and why. If they had enough time to test all the new gear with enough players they always had the scoop. X driver is hot and had great ball speeds, or X driver is performing better than the rest for higher swing speed players. That discussion was in my opinion the best data dump I would receive all year. I would do that everywhere I go and if the fitter was unbiased I felt confident the info was valuable. 

 

Now take that and scale it up and ask 28 of these fitters and average the data to get the best early reports. That is what we have here.

[sbjinx]

8 minutes ago, easyyy said:

 

I have seen this evolve over the years. I have written long form replies about this over the years. At the end of the day simply put... I look at this as the best we can offer at this point. 

 

I will take the opinions of 28 of the best fitters in the business who fit players all day with all the options available. I would rather that than 20 to 30 golf geeks on the range for a blister fest weekend. "I like that this one!" Yeah.... solid. 🤡

 

Every year I would drive up to Miles of Golf and also Carls Golfland since they were both local. I knew the staff back then at both places. I would beeline straight to the fitter I trusted the most to be neutral. I would ask him... "what is going on this year?" What is hot and why. If they had enough time to test all the new gear with enough players they always had the scoop. X driver is hot and had great ball speeds, or X driver is performing better than the rest for higher swing speed players. That discussion was in my opinion the best data dump I would receive all year. I would do that everywhere I go and if the fitter was unbiased I felt confident the info was valuable. 

 

Now take that and scale it up and ask 28 of these fitters and average the data to get the best early reports. That is what we have here.

So what are you gaming this year easyyy. Haven’t seen your WITB in a while 😉 

[easyyy]

12 hours ago, sbjinx said:

So what are you gaming this year easyyy. Haven’t seen your WITB in a while 😉 

Right now I have the Ping G430 Max 9* at 45". Still in the honeymoon phase. 

[Wayside]

I’d quite like to see ‘Best Value’ given more consideration. 
 

I think most golfers would do far better with a £200 driver and lessons than a £600 driver, though I do understand pride of ownership and all that good stuff. 

 

Back in 2005 or so there was a Ram Ti (alloy) driver which retailed for £99. They made the clever move of fitting a Prolite shaft (which was still in a lot of tour bags) and a premium grip. We sold hundreds of them at a big margin. Didn’t get a single one back either. It was a massive upgrade from the package sets that most of the buyers had. 
 

Stuff like that grows the game. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Wayside

[RSinSG]

On 2/24/2023 at 9:02 AM, Adbeach321 said:

I think you test whatever the manufacturers are putting out as their stock.

This would be data that I would actually pay attention to. Robot testing of new drivers (or whatever club) with their stock shaft. That would give me a baseline starting point that I could then tweak to my specific needs.

 

While the WRX best of is probably the best one thus far, it’s still subjective even though the opinions are likely more reliable. Just give me raw data that at different swing speeds club 1 does this, club 2 does this etc.

 

When I shop for ammo I look at the ballistic data from lab tests as the starting point. The numbers are not the opinion the best shooters which is what I may consider next. 

[tilasan]

2 hours ago, Wayside said:

I’d quite like to see ‘Best Value’ given more consideration. 
 

I think most golfers would do far better with a £200 driver and lessons than a £600 driver, though I do understand pride of ownership and all that good stuff. 

 

Back in 2005 or so there was a Ram Ti (alloy) driver which retailed for £99. They made the clever move of fitting a Prolite shaft (which was still in a lot of tour bags) and a premium grip. We sold hundreds of them at a big margin. Didn’t get a single one back either. It was a massive upgrade from the package sets that most of the buyers had. 
 

Stuff like that grows the game. 

Best value would be to take a similar list to this from 2 or 3 years ago.

[Wayside]

21 hours ago, tilasan said:

Best value would be to take a similar list to this from 2 or 3 years ago.

I meant new clubs, really.
 

You might be surprised by how many golfers won’t buy second-hand, or even new stock of an old model. 

[zeebot]

This years list is an embarrassment… Keith Mitchell one of the longest on tour bagging a mizzy…. I bought a zx5 ls it’s fantastic no way it doesn’t take a spot…… Wilson is absolutely great…. And the callaway, tm, and cobra are underwhelming imo…. Titleist may deserve the top spot but it’s still rubbish. 

[mizuno player]

Currently have the Stealth Plus with Ventus blue TR. Just not crazy about it. It's hard to explain. Something just feels a little off.  Thinking of going with TSR 3 or 4.

 

Has anyone gone from Stealth plus to TSR? Were you happy with that switch? 

[Vlade15]

19 hours ago, zeebot said:

This years list is an embarrassment… Keith Mitchell one of the longest on tour bagging a mizzy…. I bought a zx5 ls it’s fantastic no way it doesn’t take a spot…… Wilson is absolutely great…. And the callaway, tm, and cobra are underwhelming imo…. Titleist may deserve the top spot but it’s still rubbish. 

Seems like a hard stance to take.  I bag a mizzy, think the srixons look fantastic as well.  Would love to try a Wilson.  But to call the other drivers rubbish?  Somehow I doubt it.

[HappyGilmore22]

I've hit all of the new models from the big manufacturers this year. All the models that fit me were so close I couldn't tell which was better and looking back at the data the last two weeks I still can't decide which one to buy. My gamer the last 2 years TSi3 included was basically the same and I don't need a new driver but going to buy one anyway. I like Titleist so deciding between TSR3 or a Stealth 2+ because I like the look and sound. Leaning more toward TM this year because the TSR just looks the exact same at address, and I kind of just want something else to look at. 

[randrews581]

On 2/23/2023 at 10:16 AM, Padreruf said:

Interesting that Titleist made their driver for slower swing speeds the most expensive...I guess they figure that seniors have more expendable dollars!!

What do you mean, all 4 TSR drivers are the same price?

[bobfoster]

In truth, I've been on all sorts of monitors, but in practice (IMO) talking about driver heads divorced from shaft choices is sort of meaningless. 

 

My general rule is that the lower the loft and the higher the SS, the more the shaft matters. Not saying wedge shafts don't matter, but getting the clubhead grind to fit your swing (and the type of grass you normally play on) is going to be 75% of the equation. With irons, I'd say clubhead (B/MB/GI/SGI) is maybe 40% - 50% - maybe more. With FWs and especially driver? The biggest variable in terms of both distance and trajectory is going to be the characteristics of the shaft. 

 

Generally, when websites do rankings like this (or the Golf Digest rankings), they'll compare monitor numbers on a bunch of heads with identical shafts (to compare apples to apples as it were). Personally, I think (again, IMO) testing the same heads with multiple shafts is much more likely to produce optimal ball flight for golfers with different swing characteristics and speeds. 

 

And yes Gary, this is completely subjective ... 🤣